What do you do with people that cut in line to meet up with group?

[brucerob62]

So, what's the difference if your wife and child went when they did or five minutes later with you and your other child?

NONE. But why would i have them wait 5 more minutes in line when i can be with my family where i would have been anyway.

 

[KellyNY]

NONE. But why would i have them wait 5 more minutes in line when i can be with my family where i would have been anyway.

Because you were not ready to enter the line, because you create inconvenience for those who will have to move to let you pass, because every body saves a spot only for his own body and you do not have a spot other then at the end of the line.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Because most people are not as logical and rational as you. It should translate to park rides, (with the exception of the fact that many rides, like Soarin' and TSM have built queues that make it virtually impossible for the rest of the group to join the one placeholder...but that could be fixed if need be). Your Dole Whip example is a good one. Lots and lots of people have a single person wait in line, and then have the kids join them at the front when it is time to order. Happens more often than not, and it isn't viewed as cutting. The only difference with rides is the overly emotional reaction that people have. And as Mr. Spock taught us, emotion is not the best way to make decisons. Once people get over the emotional issue, they would see that the single placeholder is the best approach. The problem is, everyone has to agree to it. And unless WDW makes this park policy, (which I don't see happening), emotion will always win out. So I don't actually utilize the single placeholder strategy myself as I know people will have an emotional reaction to it. But when others move past me in line to join the rest of their party,it does not bother me because I understand the efficiency involved.

Logic: people joining someone in a food line at the last minute isn't going to noticeably or effectively delay the amount of time it takes for othersz in line to get their food (and I've never known WDW to run out of any foodstuff).
Logic: people joining someone in an attraction line at the last minute will increase the amount of time people already in line will have to wait to access the attraction. Sometimes it's just seconds (the next car); sometimes it's ten minutes or more (next show).
Logic: Disney already has a procedure in place for guests who don't want to wait in line - FastPass allows the entire party to go do something else, then come back in a scheduled range and ride with minimal wait.

 

[JimmyV]

It is rude plain and simple and it is something that Kindergarteners know not to do.

Kindergartners can also be taught to get into an orderly line; remember their place in line (i.e., who is in front of them, and who is behind them), and then told to disperse, go get their Graham cracker snack, color a picture, and then re-assemble into the same line whereby no one has received an advantage over anyone else.

Once again barring emergencies being the exception, but as I stated early we saw a mom who used this to her advantage and cut in line with her and her child claiming the bathroom and catching up with her family, and yet when they finally decided to stop there was no family they caught up with. ...

For example we were entering TSMM in the morning. There was a large family in front of us as we were entering, they were trying to decide who was going to ride or not. This was something that should have been decided before entering but alas it wasnt. So about half the group 10 or so went in. Many other filed in after them including us. About 5 minutes later, here comes Uncle Bob, and Grandpa, and little cousin Joey etc, about 5 more. They then excused me through the line to catch up bc they all wanted to ride together. I can appreciate that they didnt have their act together, and I can appreciate they all want to ride together, it is a family vacation. But if you are going to cause that much disruption to the line, why not let people go ahead of group 1 until group 2 catches up. Why does my wait time, even if it isnt that long, need to be pushed back. It should be the group that couldnt enter together that should sacrifice that, not my family who entered all together.

These are all examples of people who were never in line, virtually or not, cheating the system and trying to gain an advantage. This is very different from a situation where the person was originally in line, left the line, and seeks to re-join it. That person was ahead of you, and if you let them back in line, you are right back where you started. If you deny them entrance, then you have benefitted. If you view the "game" of waiting in line as one where you hope to benefit, then don't let them back in. If you view the "game" of waiting in line as one where you hope to be no worse off than when you first entered the line, then let them back in. Emergency or not. No one is advocating allowing the "excuse me...I am trying to join up with my family who doesn't exist" person getting ahead of you. And no one is advocating letting the "I originally didn't want to ride this ride, but now I changed my mind and want to ride with the person who is first in line" person get ahead of you. I think there is probably unanimity (as hard as that is to achieve here) that this should not be allowed. The real debate seems to center around what to do with people who were in line, leave it, and try to get back in. Some say: "emergencies only"; some say, "not even in the event of an emergency. If Suzie has to go to the bathroom mid-line, then the whole family exits and gets in line again"; and some say: "They were ahead of me before. Why should I care if they are ahead of me again". But I think that everyone agrees that the "I'm trying to rejoin my family who doesn't exist" person is wrong. Which is why the "join the placeholder at the boarding area" idea works. There has to be an actual person there to join, and that cheating mom would have never gotten away with what she was trying to do.

Once again the Kindergarten teacher is not going to allow Joey to cut in front of Billy, bc Joey took longer in the bathroom and now wants to stand next to his BFF Timmy.

I think that if Joey was originally ahead of Billy, and was standing with his BFF Timmy before he went to the bathroom, most teachers would allow this, as: a) it probably avoids a downward spiraling situation; and b) Billy probably doesn't care as much about this issue as people on the Dis who wait in line for Peter Pan.

 

[islandtimect]

I don't have a problem if someone has to take their little one to the bathroom and wants to catch up with their family. Once we were in line for Rockin Roller Coaster and a foreigner politely passed us to catch up with his family. The ugly American behind me copped a big attitude and complained and almost got violent for the next 30 minutes in line. It was so uncomfortable. When we got to a CM the man asked if it' ok to cut to catch up with family and the CM said yes. We laughed so hard - who was the bigger jerk. The cutter or the complainer!

 

[gator girl]

Sucks to be the kid of a single parent, huh? No line-skipping option. Stupid kids. We should probably all heckle them when they get in line. Or, in some cases as seen in this very thread, you could just taunt them when you step past them in line to catch up with the "spare" parent your group sent ahead.

ETA: Again, I personally have zero problem with people in line getting out for any reason at all, emergency or not, and getting back in (with the caveat that Disney-designed queues make this logistically very difficult). I just don't like the people who appear out of nowhere and want to push past. And this specific post is in response to the "why should my kids have to wait now because mom already got in line 10 minutes ago and we just want to BE TOGETHER" crowd, and the way their jaws hang open in disbelief at the suggestion that maybe, just mayyyyyybe, NO ONE in the family should get in line until the whole party arrives. Like those of us who suggest that train of thought should probably be on some sort of government watch-list due to our crazy talk.

Look, we see your game. You just want to let your kids skip ahead in line after they've spent time doing something else. Ok, cool. But realize that we all know that your kids are skipping in line. The vast majority of the queues as they stand right now are not designed for virtual waiting. Pushing past all manner of people to move ahead in a line you were never in to start with is the very definition of skipping. Even if you know someone who's already way up there in the bowels of the queue. So don't act like this is just some sort of family-togetherness fest with absolutely no side effect of your kids exempting themselves from a chunk of the waiting time, OK? Own it, skippers. Loud and proud!

 

[JimmyV]

Logic: people joining someone in an attraction line at the last minute will increase the amount of time people already in line will have to wait to access the attraction. Sometimes it's just seconds (the next car); sometimes it's ten minutes or more (next show).

You are missing out on one very important fact. You are treating this situation as if everyone else BUT YOU gets to use the placeholder system. You get to use it too. If EVERYONE were to use it, no one waits any longer than they would have if everyone had been in line. You are either missing the math, or missing the logic.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each is a family of four. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the three other members of their family. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 200 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 200 people=200 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

The only way that your wait can "increase" is if you are taken by surprise and did not know that this system was in place, and all of a sudden you saw groups of three joining single placeholders at the boarding area. You would say: "what's going on here. I'm getting cheated." But only if you were unaware of what was actually happening. The system only works if it is fully disclosed and everyone knows that when you see 50 people ahead of you, there aren't really 50 people ahead of you, and in fact the number is much larger. Back to the food line example. When there are 4 people ahead of me in line, I am not foolish enough to think that the kitchen will only have to prepare 4 meals before mine. I know that these people are all going to be ordering for an entire family. When the dad in front of me orders 5 cheeseburger combo plates instead of one, I do not get my knickers in a knot and complain that the line just got bigger and my wait time just increased. It really is the same thing. Honest. I'm not making this up. The math works. This is why WDW has moved toward this system for certain meet and greets. They aren't trying to cheat anyone. But in some places in the park, it does them no good to have huge lines spill into the walking areas. So they ask that one person per group wait in line. It really does work, and you really aren't being cheated.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You are missing out on one very important fact. You are treating this situation as if everyone else BUT YOU gets to use the placeholder system. You get to use it too. If EVERYONE were to use it, no one waits any longer than they would have if everyone had been in line. You are either missing the math, or missing the logic.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each is a family of four. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward.
....

There aren't going to be groups of four. When is the last time you read the Resorts Board? Everyone there complains because the rooms ONLY hold four and they have five or six or seven or ten or fifteen.

Or the transportation board where they complain because the person in the wheelchair that just pulled up to the now loading bus has an entourage of 15 to get on the bus with them and they all want to load from the back.

 

[JimmyV]

There aren't going to be groups of four. When is the last time you read the Resorts Board? Everyone there complains because the rooms ONLY hold four and they have five or six or seven or ten or fifteen.

Or the transportation board where they complain because the person in the wheelchair that just pulled up to the now loading bus has an entourage of 15 to get on the bus with them and they all want to load from the back.

Sigh....So what? The math is the math. Put in whatever number you want. Do you want to assume that the average size of the group ahead of you is 9 people? OK.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each group averages 9 people. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the eight other members of their group. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 450 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 450 people=450 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

Does this work better for you?

And if your argument is: But I won't know how long the line really is, because I won't know if the average group size is 4 or 9, rest assured. Disney knows. They are well aware of crowd dynamics. They would put those "Wait Time From Here" boards out just as they do now. Only, under the placeholder approach, it would look odd to you at first. The wait at PP would say 30 minutes, but only the first zig and the first zag of the queue would be full. But you would get used to that very fast.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Sigh....So what? The math is the math. Put in whatever number you want. Do you want to assume that the average size of the group ahead of you is 9 people? OK.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each group averages 9 people. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the eight other members of their group. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 450 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 450 people=450 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

Does this work better for you?

Sigh. You are basically talking about the FP system. Why do you think they limit the number of FPs you can have at any one time?

 

[KellyNY]

Sigh....So what? The math is the math. Put in whatever number you want. Do you want to assume that the average size of the group ahead of you is 9 people? OK.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each group averages 9 people. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the eight other members of their group. You will be the 451st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 450 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 450 people=450 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

Does this work better for you?

But it places single person out of system in terms of place holder and if we want to put single riders in system,.. we get FP system which already exists.

 

[ellie05]

And now I'll drag out my old pet theory:

I travel solo. From now on, I'm just going to take potty breaks, snack stops, rest breaks, FP runs, etc. as necessary.

Then when I get to a ride, I'll excuse myself through the queue up to the point where I feel that I theoretically would have been had I not made all the stops along the way. I'll skip ahead past all of those people who went ahead and got in line earlier than me.

That's only fair, right? Why should I be punished because I don't travel with a warm body to be sent ahead as a scout in line?

Heck, this is a great idea. I'll ride Peter Pan after lunch to make the most of it. So the plan is: think about riding Peter Pan at 12:30 (this is when my imaginary placeholding touring companion enters the queue), instead go to CHH for lunch and finish about 1:00, go back to Peter Pan where the standby wait is at 45 minutes, push past 2/3 of the people standing in the queue for an overall 15 minute wait time. This is GENIUS!!

Not fair, you say? Then how is it fair for dad to make a FP run & catch up to his family in line later? Or for Junior to go potty and get a Coke while the rest of the family enters the queue & then push his way through later?

I have absolutely ZERO problem with someone who is already in the line, exits it for whatever reason up to and including sudden-onset hair fires, and then rejoins the line. But just hardcore walking-up-and-skipping-the-line is gross. Even if you think you have a reason.

Note: I'm exempting any queues that Disney has already set up to accomodate "placeholders" like the Merida M&G, etc. They've clearly thought of a better way to run those lines.

If and when Disney sets up the rest of the ride lines so that no one has to wait, and we all take a virtual number and come back when it's our time to ride, then I'm all for that. Bring it on. But right now? Right now, you are supposed to wait your turn. All of you. Not just the ones who feel like holding a place for their entire family who are roaming the park elsewhere, plus those of us schmucks who are flying solo.

Now, am I going to do anything about it other than give you stinkeye and possibly stick pins in a little you-shaped voodoo doll later that night? Nope. But rest assured that, as you squeeze your sweaty body past me in the narrow queue with that ice cold Coke and the look of someone who has recently peed, I'm thinking really bad things in your direction. REALLY bad.

ETA: clearly this entire post is tongue-in-cheek. Evidence: a) I would NEVER show up at a CS restaurant at 12:30 haha what am I crazy?!? and b) I'm not getting in a 45 minute standby queue for anything other than solid-gold bars. But I absolutely do have the voodoo doll of you so watch out. Just sayin'. *eyebrow waggle*

Sucks to be the kid of a single parent, huh? No line-skipping option. Stupid kids. We should probably all heckle them when they get in line. Or, in some cases as seen in this very thread, you could just taunt them when you step past them in line to catch up with the "spare" parent your group sent ahead.

ETA: Again, I personally have zero problem with people in line getting out for any reason at all, emergency or not, and getting back in (with the caveat that Disney-designed queues make this logistically very difficult). I just don't like the people who appear out of nowhere and want to push past. And this specific post is in response to the "why should my kids have to wait now because mom already got in line 10 minutes ago and we just want to BE TOGETHER" crowd, and the way their jaws hang open in disbelief at the suggestion that maybe, just mayyyyyybe, NO ONE in the family should get in line until the whole party arrives. Like those of us who suggest that train of thought should probably be on some sort of government watch-list due to our crazy talk.

Look, we see your game. You just want to let your kids skip ahead in line after they've spent time doing something else. Ok, cool. But realize that we all know that your kids are skipping in line. The vast majority of the queues as they stand right now are not designed for virtual waiting. Pushing past all manner of people to move ahead in a line you were never in to start with is the very definition of skipping. Even if you know someone who's already way up there in the bowels of the queue. So don't act like this is just some sort of family-togetherness fest with absolutely no side effect of your kids exempting themselves from a chunk of the waiting time, OK? Own it, skippers. Loud and proud!

I love your post.

You are missing out on one very important fact. You are treating this situation as if everyone else BUT YOU gets to use the placeholder system. You get to use it too. If EVERYONE were to use it, no one waits any longer than they would have if everyone had been in line. You are either missing the math, or missing the logic.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each is a family of four. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the three other members of their family. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 200 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 200 people=200 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

The only way that your wait can "increase" is if you are taken by surprise and did not know that this system was in place, and all of a sudden you saw groups of three joining single placeholders at the boarding area. You would say: "what's going on here. I'm getting cheated." But only if you were unaware of what was actually happening. The system only works if it is fully disclosed and everyone knows that when you see 50 people ahead of you, there aren't really 50 people ahead of you, and in fact the number is much larger. Back to the food line example. When there are 4 people ahead of me in line, I am not foolish enough to think that the kitchen will only have to prepare 4 meals before mine. I know that these people are all going to be ordering for an entire family. When the dad in front of me orders 5 cheeseburger combo plates instead of one, I do not get my knickers in a knot and complain that the line just got bigger and my wait time just increased. It really is the same thing. Honest. I'm not making this up. The math works. This is why WDW has moved toward this system for certain meet and greets. They aren't trying to cheat anyone. But in some places in the park, it does them no good to have huge lines spill into the walking areas. So they ask that one person per group wait in line. It really does work, and you really aren't being cheated.

I don't think anyone is talking about this "what if" Disney change the lines. Everyone is talking about what is happening right now, as the lines and attractions are.

 

[mesaboy2]

I just want to take a moment to thank the poster back on Page 15 who revived this 6-month-old zombie thread, thought it was about Disneyland, and has not since returned.

<slow-claps>

 

[ellie05]

I just want to take a moment to thank the poster back on Page 15 who revived this 6-month-old zombie thread, thought it was about Disneyland, and has not since returned.

 

[KellyNY]

I just want to take a moment to thank the poster back on Page 15 who revived this 6-month-old zombie thread, thought it was about Disneyland, and has not since returned.

<slow-claps>

Better then MK being moisturized.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You are missing out on one very important fact. You are treating this situation as if everyone else BUT YOU gets to use the placeholder system. You get to use it too. If EVERYONE were to use it, no one waits any longer than they would have if everyone had been in line. You are either missing the math, or missing the logic.

You're missing the very logical point that not everyone COULD use your method. Also that Disney is, or tries to be, as equitable as possible.

And that, as Deb & Bill indicates, you're describing FastPass.

 

[gator girl]

JimmyV, that's a great theory.

Except.... that's not how the vast majority of the current ride queues are designed to work. And so solo travelers and parties who need to stay together (like a single mom with her 2 small kids) stand and stand and stand in line like dopes. And then all these extra people push past them in line, because they've been off doing something else, while a placeholder stands in for them.

Please explain how your theory, in the cold light of day under actual current queue setups, is fair to everyone. As current conditions stand, there are lots and lots of people who CAN'T step out of line and come back later. If they leave the line, they have to rejoin at the end.

I just can't wrap my head around "Sorry, Timmy. You had the bad luck to be born into a household of divorce, so you'll need to wait the entire time right here where I can watch you, while Tammy goes off to ride the carousel and get a snack with her spare parent and comes back later!" is fair.

Again, nice theory. But it doesn't give equal access to everyone unless lots of these queues are redesigned like Dumbo. And, to be fair, I think Disney is moving in that direction and good for them.

And you DO realize that you're saying a solo traveler will never ever ever skip a single second of a line, don't you? Well, yippee for me. I'm going to start trolling craigslist for randoms to pretend we know each other so they can hold my spot in line from now on.

 

[JimmyV]

Sigh. You are basically talking about the FP system. Why do you think they limit the number of FPs you can have at any one time?

It would completely replace the FP system. Don't need both. Deli counters work just fine without a FP line. Everyone takes a number, and comes back when it is their turn. Cosmic Ray's doesn't need a FP system. One person waits in line and orders for all. A FP system is not an inalienable right. It simply was put in place to help people deal with waiting in zig-zagging queues for hours on end. So would this.

But it places single person out of system in terms of place holder and if we want to put single riders in system,.. we get FP system which already exists.

It does not "disadvantage" the single person, as that person is no worse off, but no better off, than the placeholder. There is no question that the single traveler receives no advantage. But they receive no disadvantage either. In my family, I would end up being the placeholder every time. So me and the single traveler I suppose, would become best friends.

 

[gator girl]

I just want to take a moment to thank the poster back on Page 15 who revived this 6-month-old zombie thread, thought it was about Disneyland, and has not since returned.

<slow-claps>

Me too! I must have missed the thread back then! Now I get my chance to be on it like my dog on his kibble!

ETA: *cancels craigslist randoms trolling and coordinates vacation schedule with JimmyV*

 

[Mkrop]

You are missing out on one very important fact. You are treating this situation as if everyone else BUT YOU gets to use the placeholder system. You get to use it too. If EVERYONE were to use it, no one waits any longer than they would have if everyone had been in line. You are either missing the math, or missing the logic.

Scenario #1. Every person waits in line. There are 50 groups in front of you, and each is a family of four. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward.

Scenario #2. Each group has one placeholder and the rest of their group joins them at the boarding area. There are 50 people in front of you, and each of those 50 people will board, along with the three other members of their family. You will be the 201st person to board from this point forward. There is no possible way that your wait could increase. The boarding time for 200 people is the same, irrespective of whether those people muddle around the queue, zigging and zagging with you, or whether those people are somewhere else (with the rest of your family, I might add), getting a Dole Whip or a bottled water. 200 people=200 people. Period. Absolute. Cannot vary.

The only way that your wait can "increase" is if you are taken by surprise and did not know that this system was in place, and all of a sudden you saw groups of three joining single placeholders at the boarding area. You would say: "what's going on here. I'm getting cheated." But only if you were unaware of what was actually happening. The system only works if it is fully disclosed and everyone knows that when you see 50 people ahead of you, there aren't really 50 people ahead of you, and in fact the number is much larger. Back to the food line example. When there are 4 people ahead of me in line, I am not foolish enough to think that the kitchen will only have to prepare 4 meals before mine. I know that these people are all going to be ordering for an entire family. When the dad in front of me orders 5 cheeseburger combo plates instead of one, I do not get my knickers in a knot and complain that the line just got bigger and my wait time just increased. It really is the same thing. Honest. I'm not making this up. The math works. This is why WDW has moved toward this system for certain meet and greets. They aren't trying to cheat anyone. But in some places in the park, it does them no good to have huge lines spill into the walking areas. So they ask that one person per group wait in line. It really does work, and you really aren't being cheated.

But a placeholder system doesnt exist now, so this agrument is not revelant right now, unless we are talking about ways to improve lines and we are not we are talking about line cutters. Your way is still a disadvantage to the solo /single parent traveler who doesnt have the luxury of leaving a placeholder while they go get a Mickey Bar for the rest of the family.


We are talking about the true line cutters, not mom who suddenly finds Junior with a blowout diaper, or the dad who has the potty training kid doing the potty dance.

We are talking about the sudden onset of people who appear in a a line when only one tour group member is holding their place. We are talking about the poster who allows his wife and kid to enter the line and then he saunters in and excuses his way through once he and the other child are done using the restroom. We are talking about the mom a few pages back who gets in line while her two TEEN DDs go make a bathroom run and then they have to get through the line to catch up with mom.

If the only people who did "cut" lines were those who truly needed to do so, then this would not be an issue.


I think I will start cutting in lines more, I mean my time is more important than anyone else's, I am going to cut in line at the bank, bc I have to pick up my kids at school on time, I mean that is important. Or when I am in line at the pharmacy, I am going to just cut ahead of all of you, because I have to go to the restroom and just got back, and technically I was ahead of you when I did leave. Would you all be ok with that? You will still get your Rx or get your banking transaction done, what could the wait be like 5 - 10 more minutes tops