What can I do to protect MIL from scams?

[rnorwo1]

Hi All,

I hope you all can help us protect my 75-yo-MIL who keeps falling for the typical romance scams. Like others, she's been getting hundreds of varied scams a day through email, SM, text, calls, etc. We knew there were little amounts going out a year ago, and we educated her constantly about them. She confidently can list all of the dangers and tell us the responses we want to hear (e.g., never click a link, never talk with anyone, etc.), but I totally underestimated how easily these criminals could educate her on how to do things like buy gift cards and wire money. We have verified that she's given away at LEAST $40-50k so far. The majority of the money has gone out in the last 2 weeks, and we've just discovered the extent of it yesterday. They've already started grooming her to cut family off because old Keanu is the only one who truly cares about her.

So far, she's cooperating and consenting to everything, but we are going to have neuropsych testing so we can start documentation in case we do need to seek power of attorney. I've grabbed screenshots of a few of the conversations as well.

I am going to bring her to the banks to shut down her accounts and open new ones (she sent account #s to them); I wish we could just get her name off of the accounts, but I assume she will need at least one account for her ss check to be deposited.

I will get her a new email, get her a new phone #, and put a monitoring app on her phone and iPad to ensure that she doesn't start back up again (any suggestions for some? I've researched and came across Bark and uMobix-again, she consented to this).

I'm trying to get access to credit reports and will freeze her credit. She's sent her driver's license, SS#, etc. out, so who knows how many loans they've opened in her name. I'll cancel credit cards and take all that off of her iPad and phone, and I'll set up online access of her accounts so we can monitor everything.

What else can we do? Her sons (one's my husband who will listen to me) want to just lock it all down and even restrict her driving or ability to have any access to anything, but I want her to maintain as much independence and dignity as possible; however, we have to assume that she will never be able to make good judgment calls with anything in this arena. She's a wonderful, kind person who is now lying and manipulating thanks to the criminals' grooming, so we really cannot trust anything at all.

Please let me know if I've missed anything that we need to do to protect her savings. Thank you so much for any and all advice!

 

[Kooks and Bay Bay]

My parents are late 70s/early 80s and at this point are sharp and would never fall for a scam.

If this is new behavior I would have to agree with her sons that she needs very restricted access as it sounds like perhaps a mental decline.

I'd also consider having her evaluated by a doctor to see if there is a decline.
There may be a treatment to help slow a progression if there is mental decline.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Sounds like she’s giving away her life savings .
I’d suggest contacting an atty that specializes in elder care to help advise you and her. Could be setting up a trust acct that lists you both and requires both of your approvals for sums over a certain amt would be useful but the lawyer would know your local laws best.

Wishing you both well with this problem.

 

[rnorwo1]

My parents are late 70s/early 80s and at this point are sharp and would never fall for a scam.

If this is new behavior I would have to agree with her sons that she needs very restricted access as it sounds like perhaps a mental decline.

It's an extremely escalating behavior. She has never been sharp, has always been gullible, and she has definite but not extensive short term memory issues. The majority of the time she is just fine, and this is the only area where her lack of judgement/discernment is so pronounced. Unless we get surprising results from the testing, I do not think she's going to be deemed incapacitated, so this would just be them bulldozing her, which could really be considered elder abuse. We are trying very hard to make it where she has little access to funds and that I'll be able to see everything to stop it if it happens again. I am saving all the evidence in case we do need to seek legal control, but I'm hoping she will remain cooperative and we don't have to go that route.

I sure hope we are like your parents when we get there!

 

[fla4fun]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I agree that some sort of trust for the bulk of her assets might be the best route to go, so that no large sums can be paid out without someone having to approve the transaction. She can still have direct access to a small, regular bank account so that she still has independence without risking her financial future. Having the testing done is also a good idea, if only to establish a base line in case there is deterioration later.

 

[afan]

My parents are late 70s/early 80s and at this point are sharp and would never fall for a scam

Don't discount the potential for happening. I thought the same of my mom until it happened. I think your advantage is they are both still alive which generally means they communicate and know what the other is doing.

I saw signs of odd things and when discussed thought it would stop and was all taken care of. It wasn't, which I found out when DSHS came knocking on our door. She still doesn't seem to get it but also don't want to talk about stuff. I've been able to do some things but it's hard to trust things and not question things.

Thankfully most of her money is invested and we share the same advisor, so while he can't tell me anything about her stuff without her permission, he is at least aware of what happened. I've still got some things to sort out with PoA which I have, but am timing that discussion with when I meet with a lawyer next month to get my own stuff drafted and in place. Much easier to use that as the start of the convo than all the issues. It's better to have it all on file where it's needed before anything happens than to have to deal with it in an emergency

@rnorwo1 it's hard and I can't offer advice at the moment. If they aren't already, get her bank involved and her credit reports can have a note added that she was a victim of fraud. The bank is what caught my mom's and reported it to DSHS, the banks are supposed to report when it's anyone over 60. It all happened back in the fall and the guy came in Feb I think it was. He asked her cognitive questions, which seems to be the only thing she remembers or cares about. She wouldn't allow me to stay while they talked and he couldn't tell me that much.

I'm an only child and not married so it's just me. I'm glad you are helping, it's a lot to deal with and I can't even imagine it getting to that extreme.

 

[lanejudy]

I wish we could just get her name off of the accounts, but I assume she will need at least one account for her ss check to be deposited.

She will need an account. But it can be a small account that isn't directly connected to any other account (don't put overdraft protection to draw from another account). Depending on how much SS $ she receives and how much she needs to spend on monthly expenses, you can also have most of it automatically transferred to another account (maybe one with her name and her son(s) names) so that balance doesn't accrue. Also, consider setting up automatically bill payments for any recurring expenses that she has and set those to pay the day after her SS is deposited so there is less in the account. The goal is to leave only as much in that account as she needs.

I will get her a new email, get her a new phone #

Then DON'T SHARE them with anyone who doesn't absolutely need it. Inform the medical office that she's been a victim of a scam and you want your contact info listed. Don't let her put the email or phone number into any websites -- no ordering online, etc.


And make a police report. It more than likely won't have any result but it serves as documentation of what has happened.

 

[lanejudy]

So far, she's cooperating and consenting to everything, but we are going to have neuropsych testing so we can start documentation in case we do need to seek power of attorney.

IF she is cooperating now, you should get her to a lawyer asap to do a PoA now. (As well as any other legal work that might be prudent -- will, advanced directive, etc.) For a PoA she has to be able to understand that she is giving away that power to another individual. You won't be able to "seek" power of attorney if she is unable or unwilling to consent. But the court can grant conservatorship; that will be a much harder process for all if you can't get her to do it now willingly.

 

[LuvOrlando]

It is very sad when these things happen.

Personally, I would let her sons handle it and step aside because if she really gets slammed her sons and all their family members are all going to blame you because you got in the way of them protecting her.

 

[tvguy]

Thankfully most of her money is invested and we share the same advisor, so while he can't tell me anything about her stuff without her permission, he is at least aware of what happened. I've still got some things to sort out with PoA which I have, but am timing that discussion with when I meet with a lawyer next month to get my own stuff drafted and in place. Much easier to use that as the start of the convo than all the issues. It's better to have it all on file where it's needed before anything happens than to have to deal with it in an emergency

@rnorwo1 it's hard and I can't offer advice at the moment. If they aren't already, get her bank involved and her credit reports can have a note added that she was a victim of fraud. The bank is what caught my mom's and reported it to DSHS, the banks are supposed to report when it's anyone over 60. It all happened back in the fall and the guy came in Feb I think it was. He asked her cognitive questions, which seems to be the only thing she remembers or cares about. She wouldn't allow me to stay while they talked and he couldn't tell me that much.

I'm an only child and not married so it's just me. I'm glad you are helping, it's a lot to deal with and I can't even imagine it getting to that extreme.

My mom and I shared the same financial advisor but she specified to him that I had complete access to all her financial information. And everything was setup so I could view it all online. She did NOTHING online, didn't have a computer, and in her later years she would call me to do financial things for her online so she didn't have to go to the bank.
But my dad died before I turned 18, I was her only child, and I was on EVERYTHING of hers as a joint owner from the time I turned 18.
She had everything set up so a POA was not needed. HOWEVER, after she had a stroke and needed Long Term Care, her LTC provider insisted a POA was needed. Fortunately, she was mentally and physically well enough to execute a POA after the stroke. Cost her $100 for something she LEGALLY did not need, but it was the path of least resistance with the LTC provider. If that had not worked, it would have cost her $1,000 to go to Court and get a Court Order instructing the LTC provider to talk to me and pay her claims. The issue was, the LTC provider considered her LTC policy to be an "investment" product not an insurance policy. They sold the policy to a California resident, through a California Broker, and California law considered it an insurance product.
My mother's nature.....as a child of the depression......was to not spend a penny without careful consideration, and without consulting me. She got even tighter with spending money in her Senior years. I only remember two times she spent any major amount of money that she did not consult me. First, was canceling all her life insurance and instead buying LTC insurance with a life insurance component. She paid $75,000 for that policy, about half her life savings It provided her with up to $300,000 in LTC benefits, and if no LTC benefits were used, it paid a $75,000 life insurance payout. About $25,000 in benefits were paid, and subtracted from the $75,000 so I got that as a life insurance benefit when she passed.
The only other major purchase I remember that she did not run by me in advance was about $5,000 for hearing aids. That was a sensitive subject after a family trip with my family and her, and her sisters when we all noticed how hard of hearing she was. She did not appreciate the "feedback" from her family on the need for hearing aids. HOWEVER, when we got home she went to a hearing aid center for a free test. Then paid for a hearing test with a Doctor. Only then did she got back and get hearing aids. She never regretted spending that money and getting them as it improved her quality of life so much, quality she was not aware she was missing out on. And I understand why she was sensitive about it, and decided to surprise me with the purchase.

 

[twoolle]

I'm very sorry to hear this. Pretty much exact same thing happened to my mom, Neil Diamond and lost over 40k.

Definitely get the POA. We also signed my mom up for lifelock. They will notify you if her credit gets ran. We also froze my mom's but she called in and unfroze it so she could get a loan. That's when Lifelock notified us. I was able to shut down the loan application right away since I was her POA. Another time I wasn't fast enough to take care of it and she lost another 1400.

 

[barkley]

For a PoA she has to be able to understand that she is giving away that power to another individual. You won't be able to "seek" power of attorney if she is unable or unwilling to consent. But the court can grant conservatorship; that will be a much harder process for all if you can't get her to do it now willingly.

MUCH harder (we have guardianship of our adult son and chose not to do conservatorship b/c it is such a time consuming and cumbersome initial and on-going process-it entails tremendous paperwork on a regular basis to be submitted to the courts for monitoring). we are able to do this b/c my son is willing to let us handle and monitor his financials informally. power of attorney is an option and it can be a limited that just deals with financials but it can also be taken away in a heartbeat by the person who authorizes it (my mom did this multiple times near the end b/c one of my sibs who was taking advantage was manipulating her) so consulting with an elder law attorney is vital to determine the best way to set things up.

 

[Pooh2]

So far, she's cooperating and consenting to everything, but we are going to have neuropsych testing so we can start documentation in case we do need to seek power of attorney. I've grabbed screenshots of a few of the conversations as well.

Since she is cooperating and still lucid, her sons should just suggest that they go together and sign a power of attorney for finances and medical decision making.

My father-in-law actually asked us to take care of his checkbook and bills after a family member emptied his account.
Your MIL may be relieved to not have to deal with finances anymore and know that she is being watched out for and protected by family.

This is such a hard stage and needs to be done carefully to maintain dignity and respect of our elders.

Our friend's mom lost $200,00 which was her entire retirement account to these scammers so it's definitely not a wait and see what happens type of deal with these internet scum buckets out there.
Then to add insult to injury, the IRS wanted her to pay tax on the amount that she was swindled!

Good luck, OP!

 

[rnorwo1]

She will need an account. But it can be a small account that isn't directly connected to any other account (don't put overdraft protection to draw from another account). Depending on how much SS $ she receives and how much she needs to spend on monthly expenses, you can also have most of it automatically transferred to another account (maybe one with her name and her son(s) names) so that balance doesn't accrue. Also, consider setting up automatically bill payments for any recurring expenses that she has and set those to pay the day after her SS is deposited so there is less in the account. The goal is to leave only as much in that account as she needs.


Then DON'T SHARE them with anyone who doesn't absolutely need it. Inform the medical office that she's been a victim of a scam and you want your contact info listed. Don't let her put the email or phone number into any websites -- no ordering online, etc.


And make a police report. It more than likely won't have any result but it serves as documentation of what has happened.

Great idea about not letting a balance accrue. I feel shady, but maybe if she doesn't know the "savings" account exist, even if her name is on it, she won't be aware of it to wire money from. Hoping the bank will have other safeguards like requiring an approval for any withdrawals. The credit union did call and follow up and warned her a $20k wire sounded like a scam, but she lied and told them she was giving it to a cousin with cancer. She has been coached by the scumbags really well!

 

[rnorwo1]

I'm very sorry to hear this. Pretty much exact same thing happened to my mom, Neil Diamond and lost over 40k.

Definitely get the POA. We also signed my mom up for lifelock. They will notify you if her credit gets ran. We also froze my mom's but she called in and unfroze it so she could get a loan. That's when Lifelock notified us. I was able to shut down the loan application right away since I was her POA. Another time I wasn't fast enough to take care of it and she lost another 1400.

Oh my goodness, I didn't think of her being savvy enough to unfreeze it, but, again, I underestimated her before. So sorry this happened to you, too!

 

[rnorwo1]

Since she is cooperating and still lucid, her sons should just suggest that they go together and sign a power of attorney for finances and medical decision making.

My father-in-law actually asked us to take care of his checkbook and bills after a family member emptied his account.
Your MIL may be relieved to not have to deal with finances anymore and know that she is being watched out for and protected by family.

This is such a hard stage and needs to be done carefully to maintain dignity and respect of our elders.

Our friend's mom lost $200,00 which was her entire retirement account to these scammers so it's definitely not a wait and see what happens type of deal with these internet scum buckets out there.
Then to add insult to injury, the IRS wanted her to pay tax on the amount that she was swindled!

Good luck, OP!

That's horrible! I'm not waiting on anything, but I am trying to keep my husband from strangling her They just keep repeating, "I don't understand how she can be so stupid," and I just keep repeating, "The criminals are that good, it's not her fault!" I'm the one who deals with her happiness in general (doing things for her, taking her places, sitting and talking with her all the time, etc.), so I don't want her depression/loneliness to get worse. But I'm definitely not going to ever again assume that what she tells us is the truth! I would love for her to be relieved with me taking over everything (I do the work, everything will be in the sons' names), but she is definitely feeling like she's being treated like a child. And, the saddest thing of all, is that she genuinely believes we've ruined her chances with Keanu....

 

[afan]

Oh my goodness, I didn't think of her being savvy enough to unfreeze it, but, again, I underestimated her before. So sorry this happened to you, too!

I tried freezing all of my mom's using my 2nd email address. I was able to do 1 of the bureaus and her chex (used for bank accounts) but the other 2 bureaus couldn't verify her. She's live in the same house since 1976, the answers weren't relevant to her. So I gave her the info for the other 2 thinking she'd ask me more and use my email like I had for the 1st two but she did it with hers. I have no idea if she has the pin number or just the login info. At least I can see stuff and she can't open any more bank accounts.

She's gotten mad with some things I've asked about, and I keep explaining I'm trying to make sure she has enough money. She tried to argue about my finances and I told her she could see all of it that I don't care. I have access to her bank account so I can see some of what happens at least. But I don't, yet, go in there that often.

 

[mikehn]

I found out my 85 year old dad was wiring money to various women around the globe. When we confronted him, he just removed us from his bank accounts. So now we cant see any transactions. Lonely old men, what you gonna do?

 

[HopperFan]

Hi All,

I hope you all can help us protect my 75-yo-MIL who keeps falling for the typical romance scams. Like others, she's been getting hundreds of varied scams a day through email, SM, text, calls, etc. We knew there were little amounts going out a year ago, and we educated her constantly about them. She confidently can list all of the dangers and tell us the responses we want to hear (e.g., never click a link, never talk with anyone, etc.), but I totally underestimated how easily these criminals could educate her on how to do things like buy gift cards and wire money. We have verified that she's given away at LEAST $40-50k so far. The majority of the money has gone out in the last 2 weeks, and we've just discovered the extent of it yesterday. They've already started grooming her to cut family off because old Keanu is the only one who truly cares about her.

So far, she's cooperating and consenting to everything, but we are going to have neuropsych testing so we can start documentation in case we do need to seek power of attorney. I've grabbed screenshots of a few of the conversations as well.

I am going to bring her to the banks to shut down her accounts and open new ones (she sent account #s to them); I wish we could just get her name off of the accounts, but I assume she will need at least one account for her ss check to be deposited.

I will get her a new email, get her a new phone #, and put a monitoring app on her phone and iPad to ensure that she doesn't start back up again (any suggestions for some? I've researched and came across Bark and uMobix-again, she consented to this).

I'm trying to get access to credit reports and will freeze her credit. She's sent her driver's license, SS#, etc. out, so who knows how many loans they've opened in her name. I'll cancel credit cards and take all that off of her iPad and phone, and I'll set up online access of her accounts so we can monitor everything.

What else can we do? Her sons (one's my husband who will listen to me) want to just lock it all down and even restrict her driving or ability to have any access to anything, but I want her to maintain as much independence and dignity as possible; however, we have to assume that she will never be able to make good judgment calls with anything in this arena. She's a wonderful, kind person who is now lying and manipulating thanks to the criminals' grooming, so we really cannot trust anything at all.

Please let me know if I've missed anything that we need to do to protect her savings. Thank you so much for any and all advice!

Everything you have said that has been happening and accelerating tells me that as you are attempting to lock down her assets ~ please contact an Elder Attorney and fight for conservatorship. She can stay where she is and feel/live fairly independent, conservator just has control of her assets, money etc. They will pay her bills, oversee her banking and assets. You could set her up with a bank account where you deposit minimal in each month for her extras with no connection to her other accounts (aka only account at a bank where there is nothing else). There is reporting to be done but she is losing her money way too fast!

I would also start process of filing police reports against her abuser(s) and the banks should be able to trace where the money went.

Also if she owns her home contact the real estate record & tax department and see about adding an alert to her account. If anyone attempts any kind of business with her home you will be notified immediately. We have that on ours just because of all the paper crooks out there. Or you could move it into a trust with her children as trustees. Also at her passing the house would avoid probate.

 

[Anthony1971]

As above an Elder care attorney is the best route if she is to remain alone. This will be neither cheap nor a fast process however. There are many types of trusts and services which are offered from as above having all the bills paid to a child or ? doing so. We unfortunately went through similar with mental decline although no scams - was in the house when they called and listened to the conversation about a pharmacy and medication is ready..... they will call and keep getting and adding small bits of info. At that point there was just no financial worries.
Don't be shocked a the cost of an elder attorney especially if they opt for services to pay bills unless a child is willing to take this responsibility. There is a lot more....... But if they want her to remain in her house - and I believe this to be the best decision but by far not the easiest.
Start the very gentle conversations about living with or very close to a child as this will take a long time to accept and act on..... or assisted living if the funds are available there are a lot of levels from self-sufficient to full assistance price will change accordingly. Please do not abruptly take a person out of their current environment this will cause a very fast decline. An elder attorney will guide......