What budget? Why worry? How do people do it?

[crisi]

Oh Crisi, I would do the same thing. It is the right thing to do.



!

Thanks. It isn't easy for me, I'm rather selfish and horde money. And, honestly, it isn't easy for my brother in law either, we learned together when he was healthy that money created boundary violations between us...he felt I judged his purchases and choices, and he was right, it was my money! And had pretty much agreed he was on his own because of the stress dependency created. Then this happened. Now I get the guilt of knowing I'll have relief from this only with his death, creating one of those "wouldn't it be nice to be a better person" moments.

 

[Muushka]

Thanks. It isn't easy for me, I'm rather selfish and horde money. And, honestly, it isn't easy for my brother in law either, we learned together when he was healthy that money created boundary violations between us...he felt I judged his purchases and choices, and he was right, it was my money! And had pretty much agreed he was on his own because of the stress dependency created. Then this happened. Now I get the guilt of knowing I'll have relief from this only with his death, creating one of those "wouldn't it be nice to be a better person" moments.

You are a good person. It is not easy to do what you are doing, especially being the frugal type (like I am).
But when everything is said and done, I hope that you will have peace about it. Your brother in law too.

 

[dvcgirl]

Thanks. It isn't easy for me, I'm rather selfish and horde money. And, honestly, it isn't easy for my brother in law either, we learned together when he was healthy that money created boundary violations between us...he felt I judged his purchases and choices, and he was right, it was my money! And had pretty much agreed he was on his own because of the stress dependency created. Then this happened. Now I get the guilt of knowing I'll have relief from this only with his death, creating one of those "wouldn't it be nice to be a better person" moments.

It is really hard giving money to family. It's much easier to give to strangers in my opinion, because you don't know their "backstory". We've given money to family, but in lump sums where we thought it would help.

My BIL (husband's brother) is a nightmare too. His health is terrible (thanks to years of alcohol abuse and former drug abuse when he was younger), and he's a financial train wreck. I'd have a really, really hard time if my husband wanted to give money to him, but if it was really important to my husband, like you, I'd bite my tongue and do it. But it would be really, really hard for me.

Thankfully he's receiving SS disability and is somehow receiving part of his pension early (he's only 54) through some "pension disability" program that his employer offered. He's been living "rent free" in his foreclosed home for two years now. Wells Fargo is just letting him stay for now, which is a strategy that the banks are implementing these days. So at least he has a place to live.

I give you a lot of credit for handling your situation the way you do. That's for sure.

 

[Colleen27]

I've said it many times. My father was proud and would not ask for help. That was a great lesson for us to NOT be poor.

I know there is something in between what my dad did and what people abuse welfare do, but personally, I feel that my upbringing made me stronger and less dependent on society for anything.

Its a fine line, I think. Living within one's means and going without luxuries does build character, but at some point it crosses over to genuinely hurting the kids. When they're hungry all day at school and can't concentrate because Mom & Dad won't apply for the free/reduced breakfast and lunch for which they'd qualify, or suffering needlessly from not going to the doctor because Dad's job eliminated health insurance but the family is too proud to accept medicaid, there's no reason for harming a child's long-term well-being that way when there is help available.

 

[eliza61]

And end my marriage? No thank you. Sometimes you make choices. Enable my husband to enable his brother....or end a marriage to a man that I adore who adores me. My brother in law is dying, we'd ended the gravy train before the diagnosis. But my husband cannot do nothing and watch him die without making him as comfortable as he can.

Of course. I think your situation highlights an important fact. There are no easy answers. Many times the financial issues are couple with the emotional issues.
Your BIL may not have been the best with money but there must have been some emotional bond to your husband for him to do what he is doing. Do we kick every one off of welfare because we think they should have "known" better or we decree that "I suffered" so let them do the same? and if we do what happens to these folks? do they magically go away or do we try and move away and then pretend "its not my problem"

Our financial outlook is definitely shaped by our experiences. As I've said previously I don't know what I term as 'Disboard poverty" where the people are on welfare while driving escalades and going to wdw (not saying they don't exist) my experience is with people suffering. Do I want them and their kids to suffer because they could have made better choices? hmmm not sure and I would hate to think of some kids going hungry because they refused to swallow their pride and asked their family for help. I see how hard it is for some of them to come into our church out reach.

 

[eliza61]

Its a fine line, I think. Living within one's means and going without luxuries does build character, but at some point it crosses over to genuinely hurting the kids. When they're hungry all day at school and can't concentrate because Mom & Dad won't apply for the free/reduced breakfast and lunch for which they'd qualify, or suffering needlessly from not going to the doctor because Dad's job eliminated health insurance but the family is too proud to accept medicaid, there's no reason for harming a child's long-term well-being that way when there is help available.

sorry, bad computer

 

[dvcgirl]

Actually, most tax cuts (including the much maligned Bush cuts) have resulted in an INCREASE in revenue, not a decrease. And even if you're right on trickle down (and there's plenty of evidence that you're not), there have been ZERO instances where an increase in taxes has had a positive effect on the economy. Not one. Zip, zero, nada. Check your history

Even the leftist of the left at best are hoping for status quo. NOBODY in gov't or economics thinks higher taxes will actually stimulate the economy. Even the President makes no such claims despite pounding away for what he claims is a "fair" tax increase. Go back & listen to any of his speeches. "Fair" is the primary justification used to date for a tax increase, other than the ocassional faulty math.



And again, even if we were to all buy into that notion, it seems pretty clear that with spending being the biggest problem, it MUST be addressed FIRST. The current plan is to ATTEMPT to increase revenue by $300 billion in order to "fund" a new $457 billion stimulus, not to draw down the deficit.

Now, even my 6-year-old can quickly point out that those #'s are not mathematically sound. That will ADD to the deficit, not reduce it. The budget used to be 14-15% of GDP. And even at that, we were spending more than we were bringing in. Now, it's 20+% and inching up toward 25%. The gov't, just like American households, must learn to live with reduced revenue during times of economic hardship.

Bottom line, I am in no way, shape, or form 100% against the notion of a tax increase. But, I'm not about to *willingly* give those goofballs in DC (Dems & Reps alike) one more thin dime until they show they can make a real committment to fiscal restraint.

Well, the US Treasury came out with a report in 2006 on the effect of tax increases/decreases and their effects on the economy. They went back to 1940 or so.

They found that the tax cuts of 2003 would not "pay for themselves" as the administration touted at the time. Only 10% would be covered by the tax cuts themselves. So basically, big tax cuts may give you a temporary bump, but it's just that...temporary.

And they said that large tax cuts have to be accompanied with large cuts in government spending. And obviously we didn't get that with the last administration because the Federal Debt went from something like 5 Trillion to nearly 11 trillion in eight years.

So I think it's important to not just talk about tax cuts and their effect on tax revenue. It's more prudent to look at what tax cuts and increases do to economic growth and their effect on the GDP.

There was a modest tax increase in 1993 and the economy hummed along quite nicely in the mid to late 90s.

 

[disneysteve]

As I've said previously I don't know what I term as 'Disboard poverty" where the people are on welfare while driving escalades and going to wdw (not saying they don't exist)

I'm not doubting you but I'm just surprised that you work in Camden and don't know anybody like that. I also work in Camden and know many people like that. I'm glad to hear that the folks coming to see you are the ones who actually need help. I see something different in Camden. Smart phones, shiny new cars, frequent travel down south or to Puerto Rico to visit family for weeks at a time, stacks of lottery tickets in their pockets, Uggs boots on their feet. I see it every single day.

 

[eliza61]

I'm not doubting you but I'm just surprised that you work in Camden and don't know anybody like that. I also work in Camden and know many people like that. I'm glad to hear that the folks coming to see you are the ones who actually need help. I see something different in Camden. Smart phones, shiny new cars, frequent travel down south or to Puerto Rico to visit family for weeks at a time, stacks of lottery tickets in their pockets, Uggs boots on their feet. I see it every single day.

Don't believe the hype Steve. walk down Market street. those ugg boats, well 9/10 they are fake. I'll give you the lottery tickets, folks here do love their lottery. smart phones, yeah the first month they are cool, try calling them afterwards. very few are on verizon type 2 year annual contracts. most of them are on pay per month and after a few months I guarantee you, they are off. Many do take advantage of the free cell phone minutes offered.


I can get you just about any designer bag, shoes, or watch for 19.99 all through camden and philly.

Sure they go to PR to visit, ask them how long they scrape up the money to get that ticket and once again 9/10 they go back hoping to find a better situation. No one is going to PR to take what you would call a vacation. They darn sure aren't lounging on the beach.

We see a women with kids eating Mcdonalds on food stamps and we automatically shake our heads and say "hum look at her wasting my money". Take a minute to not jump to conclusions and you may find, she's living in public assistance with her utilities shut off for non payment so she can't cook a home.

Like I said, ask them where they got those "uggs" and you may be very surprised. Also remember I volunteer for a faith based mission. It's not mandatory nor do we have any type of power so generally the families we tend to see are folks who actively are trying to better their situation, so they aren't trying to "live off of some one else" or any other things you guys seem to come across. for example I always laugh when poster swear they are in the supermarket and run across folks using food stamps to buy steaks. Camden doesn't even have a supermarket like we know them. We have a pathmark on the fridges of city limits but pretty much is bodegas, so rarely are they buying steaks, heck we're happy if the church can get a van together to take folks to a nice supermarket in Collingswood and let them buy groceries. I haven't met with 1 family, not 1 over the last 3 years who mentioned Disneyworld. Not a single one. when I first joined our church we offered our food bank 3 days a week, we could probably service people 7 days if we had the volunteers. With almost 70% of Camden of some type of assistance, I definitely sure there is some one abusing the system and I'm sure some have come knocking on our doors to see what they could get. don't doubt it for a minute.

But before you assume that young girl with the smartphone is "gaming" try asking her where she got it.

Lastly, don't confuse the new developed river front area of Camden as the real Camden. that's a very small segment around Cooper hospital and Rutgers NJ that is being developed. Yes, you will definitely see the luxury cars there because city officials have moved all the poor people out of there and regentrified the neighbor hood. Can't have the homeless mixing with folks trying to get to the Aquarium or the ball park. They tore down the area and put up new condo's so they are getting lots of fresh dough from folks who want riverfront living. Even the area around Campbells soup and Cooper hospital tends to bring in more middle class folks.

that's an entirely different world, still Camden but might as well be china.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Well, the US Treasury came out with a report in 2006 on the effect of tax increases/decreases and their effects on the economy. They went back to 1940 or so.

They found that the tax cuts of 2003 would not "pay for themselves" as the administration touted at the time. Only 10% would be covered by the tax cuts themselves. So basically, big tax cuts may give you a temporary bump, but it's just that...temporary.

Don't disagree at all. But, remember that's coming at it from an entirely different perspective - strictly looking at how the cuts impacted revenue, not how they impacted the economy. And yes, every administration lies about the real impact of any of their programs. Just like the current situation with Obamacare. They said it'd be a $700 billion program, detractors said it would be more like $1 trillion. Now that they've had a couple years to study it, current reports say $1.76 trillion is probably more realistic.

And they said that large tax cuts have to be accompanied with large cuts in government spending. And obviously we didn't get that with the last administration because the Federal Debt went from something like 5 Trillion to nearly 11 trillion in eight years.

Well, there were other factors, but yes a tax cut should definitely be accompanied by a spending cut. At this point, we're so far in debt that even a tax INCREASE must be accompanied by an even larger spending cut.

So I think it's important to not just talk about tax cuts and their effect on tax revenue. It's more prudent to look at what tax cuts and increases do to economic growth and their effect on the GDP.

There was a modest tax increase in 1993 and the economy hummed along quite nicely in the mid to late 90s.

The difference there is that you had an economy that was cranking so hard, a minor tax increase had almost no impact. When people who were making $250,000 a year suddenly find themselves making $400,000 a year, a 6% bump in their taxes still leaves them with more than they had before. Putting a tax increase on top of an already soft economy is a BAD idea.

As for WHY things were humming along in the 90's, it may seem a rather simplistic approach, but it all boils down to cheap energy. Go back & study the economy over your lifetime & beyond. When gas is cheap, we boom. When it's not, we don't. I was filling up for 80 cents a gallon in the mid-late nineties. There were other factors like the .dom boom, all the folks employed in Y2K preparation, etc. But, the biggest factor was cheap fuel. We haven't had it since & we haven't been able to really get cranking as a result.

 

[irishsharon]

I remember growing up with VERY little in Belfast N.Ireland but my mom always taught me there is always someone worse off than you.There will always be those who take advantage but there will also always be those who deserve our help.My dh always says to me even if we won the lottery we would not be rich because I would give it away,I think that's the nicest thing anyone has every said to me.

 

[aprylann28]

I have not read through all the replies to this thread because I got tired of reading everyone’s complaints about other people’s situations when they don’t really know anything about those situations. So, if someone has already replied in favor of those of us who are struggling, thank you. But here are my thoughts.
First off, if you have never been in our shoes, then you don’t understand what it can be like to HAVE to live paycheck to paycheck. If you are lucky enough to never have everything you have worked so hard for be pulled right out from under you, then more power to you. But, you have no right to judge those of us who have had to deal with situations that are out of our control and have created financial downfalls for us. You have no right to say that everyone who is struggling right now is struggling because they make bad decisions.
My husband and I do live within our means. We do not go out and buy expensive things that we cannot afford. We do not buy anything unless we can afford to outright pay cash for it. We have no credit cards, no loan debt. However, we are struggling financially. Why are we struggling if we have no credit card or loan debt, you ask. The answer is because life has thrown us into some situations that we could not control, and those situations have created financial hardship.
Before we were married, my husband and I both had our share of making our own bad financial decisions, and as a result we both had to file bankruptcy during our lives as single people. We both agree that we never want to be in those situations or have to file bankruptcy again, which is why we make sure we live within our means now.
However, while I was pregnant with our son who is 2 now, my husband’s company did a mass layoff, and my husband was one of the hundreds of people who got laid off. It took him almost six months to get another job, and it was not due to a lack of trying. That was when our economy was first starting to make a turn for the worse, and most companies were laying off, not hiring. My husband did get unemployment, but even with giving up some of our luxury items (like cable and cell phones) we still had to dip into our savings account to be able to pay our rent, groceries, electric, etc. My husband finally found another job two months before our son was born, and then got called back to his old job a month later. But then I had the baby and had to be off work and on disability pay for six weeks, so that did not help the situation. And of course, at that point it was hard to start building our savings account back up because we now had $9,000 worth of medical bills from the birth of our son (and that’s what was left after our health insurance paid their part). Four months later, while we were still trying to get those medical bills paid off, I ended up with a herniated disc in my back and had to be on complete bed rest for 8 weeks. So again, more disability pay (which, for anyone who does not know, is only half of what you make), and more medical bills. My husband and I worked hard and got all of our medical bills paid off in a year, and started trying to build up our savings account again. Then three months later my husband ended up with a hiatal hernia in his stomach and had to have surgery to repair it. So more disability pay, more medical bills, and back into the savings account to help pay our normal living expenses. Fortunately, my husband healed quickly and was able to go back to work two weeks earlier than he was supposed to, and we were able to get those medical bills paid off in about 7 months. We had been doing alright for about a year, had gotten a good deal of money back in our savings account, and then all of a sudden my son got sick. I picked him up from the babysitter’s one night and he was breathing really hard and heavy, so we took him to Children’s hospital. He had a severe upper respiratory infection and had to stay overnight so they could monitor his breathing until it went back to normal. So once again we have more medical bills than what we can afford to pay without dipping into our savings account again. So before you judge and complain about people who are struggling, keep in mind that it is not always due to bad financial decisions or buying things you can’t afford.
Some other comments I want to make about the OP’s comments:
You said that people who are struggling financially should go get training for a better job. – It is not always that simple. Some people (especially those with kids) may not have time to go back to school regardless of what kind of a school or how many years it may take. If people are already having financial difficulties, they may not be able to afford to go get training for a better job. Companies don’t always pay for employees to go back to school or get further training of any kind (especially if they think you may leave their company afterwards). And also, going back to school does not always guarantee you a better job. I know this from experience. Before I got married I went back to school and took a 2 year degree program in medical coding and billing. I had straight A’s in all my classes and was the top student in the whole program. However, after I got my degree and went to get a job, I could not get one. No one would hire me because I did not have any experience in that field. It didn’t matter that I had excellent grades. Everyone required previous experience in a medical office. One interviewer even told me that I could have gotten all F’s in my classes and it wouldn’t have mattered. They would have still hired me if I had just had experience in a medical office. I tried for 2 years to get a job as a medical coder or biller, and eventually gave up. So I repeat, school or training does not guarantee a better job.
You stated that if someone has a teaching degree, they should teach. – I would like to know where you live that teaching jobs are so abundant. I have a cousin who will gladly move there. My cousin went to school for four years and did one year of student teaching to get her degree in education. She then went to every school in our city trying to get a job, and no one would hire her. She did not just go to the schools around her house, she was not picky about what district she would teach in. She wanted to be a teacher, and she would teach anywhere just to be able to do it. She was told by every school district in our city that they just didn’t have any teaching positions available at that time. She did finally get a job as a substitute teacher with one of the better districts in our city. She did that for 2 years, then a permanent teaching position became available. She applied for it, but did not get it. Instead they gave it to the principal’s niece who had just completed her degree. My point is that just because you have a degree in a specific field, does not necessarily mean you can get a job in that field.
Another poster stated that he/she volunteers at a food shelter and is shocked by the people that come up in big fancy cars or wearing fancy clothes. – This comment reminds me of something I saw in a magazine once. It said something about if you can’t afford to eat, how’d you afford that big fancy car? If you can’t afford to feed your kids, how’d you afford that mink coat? It went on for five or six lines saying stuff like that. Here is my thought: Maybe the car was bought when you could afford it (before you had financial hardships). Maybe the mink coat was passed down to you from your grandmother (that’s how I got my mink coat). Maybe something else was given to you as a gift. My point is that sometimes people buy things when they can afford them, then they fall on hard financial times. My husband has two kids from a previous marriage, and we go a lot of places with my mom and his mom. So when we had our baby, we needed a bigger car. We used our tax refund that year to buy a SUV. We bought it used, and we made sure that it did not cost more than what our tax refund was. Sure, there was a newer, bigger, better SUV on the lot that we would have liked to buy, but it was out of our price range. So we went with what we could afford. We bought the car in April, then my husband got laid off in June. We had paid cash for the car, we had no payments to make on it, so why should we have gotten rid of it? The people that are coming to the food shelter in these fancy cars, might have had those cars for years, and have just recently fallen on hard times. If you don’t know for sure, then don’t judge them.
Anyway, I’m sorry this is so long, but the OP’s rant was long, and some of the other comments have been long, too. I just hope I have made some of you think about how unfair it is to put people down and assume that the only reason they are struggling is because of bad choices. Some of the things that have been mentioned in these posts are not as simple as they sound, and unless you have been through it, you just don’t know.
Remember, everyone on this earth is fighting a hard battle of some sort. Some may be fighting harder battles than others, but everyone is still fighting. Be kind to one another and don’t judge.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Marionnette]

I have not read through all the replies to this thread because I got tired of reading everyone’s complaints about other people’s situations when they don’t really know anything about those situations. So, if someone has already replied in favor of those of us who are struggling, thank you. But here are my thoughts.
First off, if you have never been in our shoes, then you don’t understand what it can be like to HAVE to live paycheck to paycheck. If you are lucky enough to never have everything you have worked so hard for be pulled right out from under you, then more power to you. But, you have no right to judge those of us who have had to deal with situations that are out of our control and have created financial downfalls for us. You have no right to say that everyone who is struggling right now is struggling because they make bad decisions.
My husband and I do live within our means. We do not go out and buy expensive things that we cannot afford. We do not buy anything unless we can afford to outright pay cash for it. We have no credit cards, no loan debt. However, we are struggling financially. Why are we struggling if we have no credit card or loan debt, you ask. The answer is because life has thrown us into some situations that we could not control, and those situations have created financial hardship.
Before we were married, my husband and I both had our share of making our own bad financial decisions, and as a result we both had to file bankruptcy during our lives as single people. We both agree that we never want to be in those situations or have to file bankruptcy again, which is why we make sure we live within our means now.
However, while I was pregnant with our son who is 2 now, my husband’s company did a mass layoff, and my husband was one of the hundreds of people who got laid off. It took him almost six months to get another job, and it was not due to a lack of trying. That was when our economy was first starting to make a turn for the worse, and most companies were laying off, not hiring. My husband did get unemployment, but even with giving up some of our luxury items (like cable and cell phones) we still had to dip into our savings account to be able to pay our rent, groceries, electric, etc. My husband finally found another job two months before our son was born, and then got called back to his old job a month later. But then I had the baby and had to be off work and on disability pay for six weeks, so that did not help the situation. And of course, at that point it was hard to start building our savings account back up because we now had $9,000 worth of medical bills from the birth of our son (and that’s what was left after our health insurance paid their part). Four months later, while we were still trying to get those medical bills paid off, I ended up with a herniated disc in my back and had to be on complete bed rest for 8 weeks. So again, more disability pay (which, for anyone who does not know, is only half of what you make), and more medical bills. My husband and I worked hard and got all of our medical bills paid off in a year, and started trying to build up our savings account again. Then three months later my husband ended up with a hiatal hernia in his stomach and had to have surgery to repair it. So more disability pay, more medical bills, and back into the savings account to help pay our normal living expenses. Fortunately, my husband healed quickly and was able to go back to work two weeks earlier than he was supposed to, and we were able to get those medical bills paid off in about 7 months. We had been doing alright for about a year, had gotten a good deal of money back in our savings account, and then all of a sudden my son got sick. I picked him up from the babysitter’s one night and he was breathing really hard and heavy, so we took him to Children’s hospital. He had a severe upper respiratory infection and had to stay overnight so they could monitor his breathing until it went back to normal. So once again we have more medical bills than what we can afford to pay without dipping into our savings account again. So before you judge and complain about people who are struggling, keep in mind that it is not always due to bad financial decisions or buying things you can’t afford.
Some other comments I want to make about the OP’s comments:
You said that people who are struggling financially should go get training for a better job. – It is not always that simple. Some people (especially those with kids) may not have time to go back to school regardless of what kind of a school or how many years it may take. If people are already having financial difficulties, they may not be able to afford to go get training for a better job. Companies don’t always pay for employees to go back to school or get further training of any kind (especially if they think you may leave their company afterwards). And also, going back to school does not always guarantee you a better job. I know this from experience. Before I got married I went back to school and took a 2 year degree program in medical coding and billing. I had straight A’s in all my classes and was the top student in the whole program. However, after I got my degree and went to get a job, I could not get one. No one would hire me because I did not have any experience in that field. It didn’t matter that I had excellent grades. Everyone required previous experience in a medical office. One interviewer even told me that I could have gotten all F’s in my classes and it wouldn’t have mattered. They would have still hired me if I had just had experience in a medical office. I tried for 2 years to get a job as a medical coder or biller, and eventually gave up. So I repeat, school or training does not guarantee a better job.
You stated that if someone has a teaching degree, they should teach. – I would like to know where you live that teaching jobs are so abundant. I have a cousin who will gladly move there. My cousin went to school for four years and did one year of student teaching to get her degree in education. She then went to every school in our city trying to get a job, and no one would hire her. She did not just go to the schools around her house, she was not picky about what district she would teach in. She wanted to be a teacher, and she would teach anywhere just to be able to do it. She was told by every school district in our city that they just didn’t have any teaching positions available at that time. She did finally get a job as a substitute teacher with one of the better districts in our city. She did that for 2 years, then a permanent teaching position became available. She applied for it, but did not get it. Instead they gave it to the principal’s niece who had just completed her degree. My point is that just because you have a degree in a specific field, does not necessarily mean you can get a job in that field.
Another poster stated that he/she volunteers at a food shelter and is shocked by the people that come up in big fancy cars or wearing fancy clothes. – This comment reminds me of something I saw in a magazine once. It said something about if you can’t afford to eat, how’d you afford that big fancy car? If you can’t afford to feed your kids, how’d you afford that mink coat? It went on for five or six lines saying stuff like that. Here is my thought: Maybe the car was bought when you could afford it (before you had financial hardships). Maybe the mink coat was passed down to you from your grandmother (that’s how I got my mink coat). Maybe something else was given to you as a gift. My point is that sometimes people buy things when they can afford them, then they fall on hard financial times. My husband has two kids from a previous marriage, and we go a lot of places with my mom and his mom. So when we had our baby, we needed a bigger car. We used our tax refund that year to buy a SUV. We bought it used, and we made sure that it did not cost more than what our tax refund was. Sure, there was a newer, bigger, better SUV on the lot that we would have liked to buy, but it was out of our price range. So we went with what we could afford. We bought the car in April, then my husband got laid off in June. We had paid cash for the car, we had no payments to make on it, so why should we have gotten rid of it? The people that are coming to the food shelter in these fancy cars, might have had those cars for years, and have just recently fallen on hard times. If you don’t know for sure, then don’t judge them.
Anyway, I’m sorry this is so long, but the OP’s rant was long, and some of the other comments have been long, too. I just hope I have made some of you think about how unfair it is to put people down and assume that the only reason they are struggling is because of bad choices. Some of the things that have been mentioned in these posts are not as simple as they sound, and unless you have been through it, you just don’t know.
Remember, everyone on this earth is fighting a hard battle of some sort. Some may be fighting harder battles than others, but everyone is still fighting. Be kind to one another and don’t judge.

Thanks for reading.

I guess that you felt strongly enough about the subject to bump up a zombie thread that's been dead for 4 months.

Sincerely hope that you situation improves. I cannot say that I agree with with your POV nor the victim mentality of so many who have "fallen on hard times". Life happens. It sucks royally sometimes. You can either wallow in self-pity or you can sacrifice now and work towards a better life. If that means selling the new-to-you SUV or grandma's mink coat, then you do it. You don't hang on to assets while spending sleepless nights wondering how to pay the electric bill or feed your child.

I have tons of compassion for people who need a helping hand. I have no tolerance for those who find excuses not to improve their lot in life while demanding that I take care of their needs.

 

[aprylann28]

I guess that you felt strongly enough about the subject to bump up a zombie thread that's been dead for 4 months.

Sincerely hope that you situation improves. I cannot say that I agree with with your POV nor the victim mentality of so many who have "fallen on hard times". Life happens. It sucks royally sometimes. You can either wallow in self-pity or you can sacrifice now and work towards a better life. If that means selling the new-to-you SUV or grandma's mink coat, then you do it. You don't hang on to assets while spending sleepless nights wondering how to pay the electric bill or feed your child.

I have tons of compassion for people who need a helping hand. I have no tolerance for those who find excuses not to improve their lot in life while demanding that I take care of their needs.

Sorry, I didn't pay attention to the date, but yes, I do feel strongly about this. I do not have a victim mentality. I do not feel that my husband and I are victims of anything. I totally agree with you that life happens and most of the time it does suck. I am not wallowing in self pity. I am perfectly happy with my life, my job, and my family. Money doesn't buy happiness, we create happiness. We have been sacrificing in order to get our medical bills paid off, every time. That's what I meant when I said we worked hard to get them paid off. If we sell our SUV, I will have no way to get to work, and then we really will be out of luck. As for the mink coat, I did try to sell it about a year ago, because I never wanted it anyway. I hate fur. But apparently no one else wanted it either. Listed it on ebay for $10, and got absolutely no bids. I am not spending sleepless nights worrying about how we are going to pay things. We are not having trouble paying for the necessities, just trouble figuring out how to pay the medical bills that keep coming in because people in our family keep getting sick. I am not asking for a helping hand from you or anyone else. My husband and I both work to make the money to pay our bills, and I wouldn't want anyone else to pay our bills or "take care of us". Especially not the government. I don't think they can take care of anybody. I agree with you about the lazy people who are taking advantage of they system. I know a couple of these people and they tick me off royally. But that is not me and my husband, and that is not what I meant to imply with my post. It just made me mad when I read the original post, because it is not the first time that I have heard something along the lines of getting a better job would fix our problems. Better jobs and/or more money don't always fix problems. My husband and I both love our jobs, we make very decent pay, and we know how to live within our means without help from anyone else. We just had some bad luck over the last couple of years with illness and the economy. However, each time we have managed to pay the bills off on our own without government assistance and without having to borrow money from someone else to survive. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, that was not my intent with my previous post. I just want people to realize that some things in life are not as black and white as they may seem to you if you have never been through it.

 

[littlebit0863]

I see people like OP is talking about all the time. I work at a personal loan company, (high interest loans for people with bad credit) and we will have people applying for loans with us that are way overbudget, and have way too many loans and credit cards. Ex: Someone will apply for us and they make $1000 a month. Then they have 12 loans on their credit and each payment is over $100. They are constantly refinancing, robbing Peter to pay Paul. I had one person apply with a repo on his credit from two months ago, and an inquiry from an ATV dealer on the same month.

I am not going to say my budget is perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination. I've had my "I blew my money on a spa day so I'll eat mac and cheese for a week" moments. But guess what. Bills get paid, then savings account.

So I say vent away.

 

[disykat]

But, you have no right to judge those of us who have had to deal with situations that are out of our control and have created financial downfalls for us. You have no right to say that everyone who is struggling right now is struggling because they make bad decisions.
.

Can you find and quote the people who said this? I didn't see anyone say this.

I get that this is a hard time for you, but why "self identify" as one of the people being talked about when that is not the case?

I thought this thread was quite clearly talking about those who were choosing poverty by their own decisions, not people working to get out of bad situations.

 

[usd2bmd]

I can't read all of the replies in this thread. It makes me sad.

I learned a lot from my mother before she died. The biggest and best lesson I ever learned was live your life. It is not productive to be concerned with what goes on in someone elses life or what you perceive it to be. You will never know what their story is...even if they tell you!

I am thankful for the life I have and that is all I need.

 

[memphismovin]

I can't read all of the replies in this thread. It makes me sad.

I learned a lot from my mother before she died. The biggest and best lesson I ever learned was live your life. It is not productive to be concerned with what goes on in someone elses life or what you perceive it to be. You will never know what their story is...even if they tell you!

I am thankful for the life I have and that is all I need.

Well said! SOME people take advantage of SOME other people, that will never end its just how unfair the world is now......that being said, when you gripe about one aspect of what someone did you leave out the whole rest of the story. Like for example the judgement of the people with the expensive cars at the food bank...maybe that car was paid in full before they lost their jobs, maybe that "expensive car" is from a buy here pay here store that is killing them with interest because it was their only option for credit. I see both of those situations every day. And maybe, just maybe think about that family that went to Disney but really "can't afford it"...maybe that trip is all they have left to look forward to after all that is falling down around them, thats not a sense of entitlement thats being human. Watching others have everything while you struggle for the million different reasons that put you there is something I would not wish on anyone. Before you judge look at the blessings that have brought you where you are today, not everyone has been so lucky. That "lazy" person may not have been raised well and needs to be shown a better way and that family that you JUST KNOW exactly how they should be running their life, well being the expert you are, why not offer to help them find a better way instead of slamming them and others on random forums.

To anyone lucky enough to be in the position so close to being God that they get to judge everyone else, I ask you this....What are you actively doing to help those people who are less fortunate than you? No not just dropping off a few cans at the pantry or paying your taxes but actually face to face grabbing someone by the hand and showing them a better way....everyone who has a perch, from which to look down on others, had someone who helped them up there in the first place. Go out and be that person for someone else! Be a foster parent, be a big brother/sister, hire that guy that needs a second chance, get on a forum that gives advice and support to others, but for goodness sake go do something with your time on this earth that doesn't involve hiding behind a computer putting other people down for not having all of the knowledge, support, guidance and luck that you have received.

 

[Muushka]

I'm soooooo glad this thread has been revived.

 

[beaucoup]

OK, I don't often feel the need to vent semi-anonymously - however, it's been building up for almost a year.

My wife and I responsible people - we each have retirement accounts, we have a savings account, we have checking account - and our bills are paid on-time. In short, we take care of our obligations - and we know our obligations, we do not live from payday to payday.

In light of that I am so tired of hearing about how 'bad' some people have it - yet they make expenditures that we (my wife and I) could not afford to, and they make financial decisions that will, just as a reasonable person could reasonably predict, make them 'short' when it comes time to take care of their financial obligations in the middle or end of the month.

I see people that have started taking public assistance when they spend countless dollars a month on totally wasteful, and impractical purchases.

I see these people making decisions, their kids see them making decisions, so it's safe to assume that their kids will make those same decisions. It's a vicious cycle!

If you know your financial obligations, you can literally see the future to a certain degree in that you know exactly what your fixed expenses are each month. Some expenses vary to a certain degree each month, but a good number of monthly expenses are the same, literally down to the penny. Emergencies do come up, heaven knows we all have emergencies (leaky roof, new tires, furnace goes out on the coldest day of winter, or the A/C goes out on the hottest day of summer) totally unexpected expenses do come up, and require a little creativity in balancing expenses and such from month to month. Emergencies happen to everyone, Murphy's Law prevails - and while it is hard to plan for the unknown - handling the unknown and unforeseen isn't impossible.

When people live their lives in a constant state of emergency, and it happens 12 out of 12 months a year, year after year - emergencies become a way of life, and the drama doesn't die down - and it comes time to step back and let the drama exist on its own and not be part of it in others lives.

I know I'm tried of hearing about how bad people have it when the decision they make are TOTALLY different than their reality.

Yet, it comes as a total surprise when the bills come in every month, somehow, some people are shocked to open the mailbox each day! WHY!?!?!

I get SO tired of hearing people complain about their financial situation, yet they won't dedicate the time to receive training to get a better job, they won't allow anyone to help with their resume, they won't take a step out of their comfort zone to apply for better higher paying positions, and most of all, they won't even LOOK for a job if they are unemployed!

People think that if they go for some type of additional training - even at a tech center or trade center, that they are going to immediately be enrolled for a 4 year degree. Some of the best paying jobs in this economy are jobs that specifically require 2 years or less of training. Yet, someone will break their back digging ditches instead of being trained for a better job that pays twice as much and isn't as labor intensive. I understand that some people LIKE digging ditches - but you don't hear those people complaining!

The same with people that are 'stuck' in low paying retail/service jobs - have they considered going for 6 months of management training to be qualified to apply for a management position when one becomes available? NO, they would rather complain.

Yet, another group that annoys me - those who go to college for 4+ years for specific career focused training and REFUSE to MOVE to secure the job that they are trained to do. If you went to college to be a teacher - GO TEACH! Just because you can't get a job at the school around the corner does not mean that 'there just aren't any teaching jobs' - it means that you refuse to mobilize your life, and put your degree to work for you, and for the good of society. There are school districts that are desperate for young energetic teachers! Why sit and be complacent? GO TO WORK!

Finally, what really sent me over the edge - TOYS. Adults and their toys - people that can't afford to pay their bills, and are in fact in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings, should not be buying luxury items! New cars, motorcycles, etc etc - the list goes on and on. If you are declaring in a court of law, under oath, that there is NO WAY you can afford to pay off your financial obligations - going out and buying a motorcycle in the midst of all of that amounts to is essentially lying under oath.

We ALL pay for individuals who are not responsible enough to pay for their own financial obligations. Just like businesses have to raise their prices to cover the cost of lost due to theft - we all pay for irresponsible behavior.

Thanks for putting up with a vent - I am just so sick and tired of people living beyond their means, then whining and complaining about the stresses of life - all while they can't figure out how they got in the mess they are in... and for some people, how they got in the mess AGAIN!

If a person makes $500 a month, they need to figure out how to live on it - even if it means pursuing charity for food or other assistance, OR get a better job - OR stop buying stuff you can't afford!

I'm sure I'm not the only person that is sick and tired of hearing about irresponsibility of others in their life when it comes to managing their financial affairs- or their life in general - it isn't incredibly difficult.

As a society people think they 'deserve' things. During the Great Depression people made due with what they had. Did they want more? YES of course they did - but there wasn't the "I Deserve It!" mentality that is so prevalent in society.

This is the Budget Board - so I thought it would be the most appropriate place to vent.

Thanks again for reading.

Finally someone here who gets it & thinks like me. There are so many times I visit this Budget Board & have to bite my tongue & walk away. I often think it should be called the Spending Board. Its certainly not a board about how to save money. Save as in put it into the bank. Not save as in here is a coupon code to save $1 on something you were not going to buy in the first place or something you really do not need.

SAVE as in pay off all your debt & obligations FIRST. THEN you can go buy the toys & huge trips, while you are still putting money in the bank.

People think we live strangely, but we are 48. I put myself thru college & paid that off early. Paid for our own wedding & honeymoon. Have been debt free & mortgage free for 4 years now. Have a very nice savings & retirement balance. Now down to 1 income by choice. And we take 1 nice trip somewhere each year. Nice but not expensive. Usually somewhere across the country & for 2 wks. I think the smartest move we ever did was buy a townhome instead of a house. We were able to pay it off fast. Friends are still struggling to make their house payments, have car loans, credit card debt & don't do anything fun or go anywhere because they are always broke. And I highly doubt they have much saved if anything. No good as we all are approaching 50. I worry for them. I don't know how they are going to make it into retirement.

This is how I was raised. I know the difference between needs & wants. We aren't wasteful. We don't sign up for duplicate services. We have a budget & know what we are allowed to splurge on & what we shouldn't splurge on. I thank my dad even though I though he was a cheap guy growing up. I GET IT NOW! Thanks dad! You taught me really well.

Only thing different in Dad, a product of the Great Depression, he is wicked tight because he is afraid of spending it & going without again. I bet most of them are. Since I haven't lived that experience, I spend a bit more freely than he does, but I understand the importance of saving. I just don't save every penny & scrap the pan clean & wash out zip lock bags or use 1 ply TP.