What 10 hours of street harassment in NYC looks like

[sam_gordon]

With all due respect sam, most of us can tell the difference between someone saying "good morning" and someone who is trying to chat us up.

But in all honesty, if you're just trying to be friendly, why would you choose to say something to a woman and NOT to the guy walking behind her? Why wouldn't you want to be friendly to everyone and not just the woman?

You see, if I'm walking along in a friendly mood, I say hi to the men AND women I encounter.

So there's a little teeny part of me that thinks that you choose to just be friendly with the women you encounter on the off chance that one of them might, for some reason, respond to you in a more positive fashion. I'm guessing you're not interested in the men responding to you in a more positive fashion.

Don't forget, I've REPEATEDLY said I don't do this. My post you quoted was in response to a question of why someone might.

Using the same "feel good" end result, if a woman told me "you look good", that would make me feel good. But if a man told me "you look good", it would feel awkward.

I am friendly (hi, hello, good morning, etc) to men and women.

 

[snapppyd]

People on this thread have dismissed the feelings of others. We all have a level of common sense, if my neighbor says hello i'm not going to freak out. If a strange man on the subway starts looking me up and down says hello that is a different story. Just the fact that you are questioning my reaction proves my point. I've experienced these things, have you?

With all due respect sam, most of us can tell the difference between someone saying "good morning" and someone who is trying to chat us up.

But in all honesty, if you're just trying to be friendly, why would you choose to say something to a woman and NOT to the guy walking behind her? Why wouldn't you want to be friendly to everyone and not just the woman?

You see, if I'm walking along in a friendly mood, I say hi to the men AND women I encounter.

So there's a little teeny part of me that thinks that you choose to just be friendly with the women you encounter on the off chance that one of them might, for some reason, respond to you in a more positive fashion. I'm guessing you're not interested in the men responding to you in a more positive fashion.

Thank you for this post. I can't seem to get my point across. We are talking about the kinds of "hello" that happened in the video, and some of us have had these things happen to us. One woman here said "some women just hate all men". I don't hate all men, I just don't like random creepy strangers thinking I owe them an answer if they speak to me.

 

[JenM]

This is totally strange to me.

So what I get from this is that strangers cannot say anything to anybody walking int he but city because they are busy and the person saying something is strange.

All I can say is that I don't live in a bubble. But apparently I am a country bumpkin who doesn't get what appropriate behavior is in the big city.

And no, that doesn't mean cat calling doesn't happen. But a post like this just indicates to me that apparently strangers can't talk to strangers at all. Nice perception of city life that conveys. I guess I prefer the south where a hello or A nice shoes comment would not be perceived as rude.

No, that's not what what it means. I was born in NY, I work in NY, but I live in NJ. I grew up in the suburbs. And the biggest difference is that there are so many people in the city, and so many things going on at once that the kind of one-on-one personal contact between strangers is something that just isn't very feasible. It's like trying to say hello to everyone in the mall during a Black Friday sale or something.

Regarding the "nice shoes" comment: there have been times where people (male or female) have come up and said something like that, and it seemed harmless enough...but once you answered, suddenly they're asking for money - for themselves, for a charity, or they want you to sign up for something. It's not why I stopped to respond. And once that happens, then you're leery about the next person who walks up and starts asking about your shoes. Could they be completely honest? Sure. But thanks to the times it wasn't so honest, I'm probably not going to answer, or I'm at least going to keep walking if I do.

Regarding the "hellos": a few years ago, a friend and I were leaving a Broadway theater and a guy walked up, put an arm around my friend, and said "Girl, if you were my cheeseburger, I'd eat you now." Beyond the obvious WTH about that...once something like that happens, you are leery about the next guy you don't know who starts getting up close to you or your friends. He may have innocent intentions, but I'm not going to take that chance.

So yes, we'd rather men we don't know keep their hellos to themselves, and quit asking us to smile or tell them how our days are going. We'd particularly appreciate it if they didn't call us names if we chose not to answer, either. And I'm glad that you like my shoes, but I don't really know you...so I'm just going to keep going about my day.

You may not think much of our big city after hearing all this, but those of us here who've had to go through these things feel this way for good reason.

 

[snapppyd]

No, that's not what what it means. I was born in NY, I work in NY, but I live in NJ. I grew up in the suburbs. And the biggest difference is that there are so many people in the city, and so many things going on at once that the kind of one-on-one personal contact between strangers is something that just isn't very feasible. It's like trying to say hello to everyone in the mall during a Black Friday sale or something.

Regarding the "nice shoes" comment: there have been times where people (male or female) have come up and said something like that, and it seemed harmless enough...but once you answered, suddenly they're asking for money - for themselves, for a charity, or they want you to sign up for something. It's not why I stopped to respond. And once that happens, then you're leery about the next person who walks up and starts asking about your shoes. Could they be completely honest? Sure. But thanks to the times it wasn't so honest, I'm probably not going to answer, or I'm at least going to keep walking if I do.

Regarding the "hellos": a few years ago, a friend and I were leaving a Broadway theater and a guy walked up, put an arm around my friend, and said "Girl, if you were my cheeseburger, I'd eat you now." Beyond the obvious WTH about that...once something like that happens, you are leery about the next guy you don't know who starts getting up close to you or your friends. He may have innocent intentions, but I'm not going to take that chance.

So yes, we'd rather men we don't know keep their hellos to themselves, and quit asking us to smile or tell them how our days are going. We'd particularly appreciate it if they didn't call us names if we chose not to answer, either. And I'm glad that you like my shoes, but I don't really know you...so I'm just going to keep going about my day.

You may not think much of our big city after hearing all this, but those of us here who've had to go through these things feel this way for good reason.

 

[snapppyd]

I never questioned your reaction. I questioned your claim that people are telling you you're imagining things or that it's your fault.

Personally, I don't think anyone has dismissed your feelings either. I'm sure there have been plenty of times you've been harassed. But I think it's sad you feel a simple "hello" from a stranger is harassment.

Don't be sad, I'm perfectly fine. Like I said, it depends on the tone and situation. When I'm at the Beach Club in Disney I say hello to people. When I'm on the subway I keep to myself.

Have a nice day.

 

[mjkacmom]

This is totally strange to me.

So what I get from this is that strangers cannot say anything to anybody walking int he but city because they are busy and the person saying something is strange.

All I can say is that I don't live in a bubble. But apparently I am a country bumpkin who doesn't get what appropriate behavior is in the big city.

And no, that doesn't mean cat calling doesn't happen. But a post like this just indicates to me that apparently strangers can't talk to strangers at all. Nice perception of city life that conveys. I guess I prefer the south where a hello or A nice shoes comment would not be perceived as rude.

Yes, you are a country bumpkin. What is considered appropriate in some cultures is considered rude in others. Those men on video knew what they were doing was rude (since they were probably from this area), and so were harassing that woman. NYers a nice lot - if you need to ask someone a question, chat it up at a bar, etc., it's all good. However, the rule of thumb while walking or taking public transportation is to say nothing, and don't make eye contact. Everyone IS in a hurry.

I found this with my first google hit of how to act like a New Yorker:

6 Know how to treat your fellow New Yorkers. In general, it's safe to assume that everyone you meet is in a hurry. Here are some more specific tips:
If you need directions, most New Yorkers will probably help you. However, keep your question short and to the point.
Don't make eye contact and smile at everyone you pass on the sidewalk. You're going to pass a lot of people, and friendliness will get tiring soon.
Ignore street hassle. If someone catcalls or whistles at you, try to act like it didn't even register with you. Above all, don't look at your harassers.
Know how to respond to people who ask for your attention. Don't cheer for the subway buskers. Don't give beggars money. Ignore people handing out fliers.

 

[olwyngdh]

It's not reality

To assume that 100% if the men you don't know is a potential rapist is no different than assuming that 100% of the black people you will encounter is a potential thug.

My husband is not responsible for the actions of any rapist any more than a person of color is responsible for a crime committed by someone of their same race.

He is no more responsible for your rape than your clothing is.

And I pray that your lack of situational awareness never results in your harm, like it has for way too many women. I don't know him. If he approached me when I was alone, my safety requires that I assess him as a threat. The majority of the time, that assessment says no danger, but without assessing the situation, I can't know that and i am not willing to end up dead in an alley to make you feel better.

 

[olwyngdh]

OK. Any suggestions on what I can do about it? I've already said I don't do "cat calls", none of my friends do (that I know of), so I can't reprimand them when they do. So what should men do?

If you see it, stop it. Make it part of conversation. Make sure the men you know let the men they know that it is unacceptable behavior. If a woman looks uncomfortable in a situation, observe what is going on and try to figure out what behavior is making her feel that way. Step up, like the valet did in a previous post.

Cultural shifts take a long time, especially when a large portion of the population is blind to there even being a problem.

 

[RadioNate]

Don't forget, I've REPEATEDLY said I don't do this. My post you quoted was in response to a question of why someone might. Using the same "feel good" end result, if a woman told me "you look good", that would make me feel good. But if a man told me "you look good", it would feel awkward. I am friendly (hi, hello, good morning, etc) to men and women.

Here's the disconnect. Strange men saying "you look good" as I walk by doesn't make me feel good. It feels awkward. It feels like they want something from me. It feels creepy.

 

[snapppyd]

My nephew grew up in an affluent, white neighborhood in CT. (not that there is anything wrong with that). After college he moved to NYC.

Guess what he told me? I GREW UP IN A BUBBLE.

I'm not disparaging anyone here, but I truly believe it seems like a lot of posters here are in that "bubble", or at least a little soap sud, lol.

When some of us try to explain that it's not like that everywhere we are told we have a problem. We just have a different reality.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And I pray that your lack of situational awareness never results in your harm, like it has for way too many women. I don't know him. If he approached me when I was alone, my safety requires that I assess him as a threat. The majority of the time, that assessment says no danger, but without assessing the situation, I can't know that and i am not willing to end up dead in an alley to make you feel better.

What makes you think I don't have situational awareness? Because I don't assume all men are rapists?

Because you weren't telling your friend about situation awareness. You made an offensive statement.

What is sad is that you don't see it any different than making the same statement about race.

 

[pioneer89]

I'm a guy, but I've walked around big cities enough, and been to enough bars to know that the behavior seen in the video is pretty common.

Earlier, a poster stated this is a problem that men need to fix. I'm wondering what exactly do they want man who doesn't do this, or hang around with other guys who do this, do to fix the problem?

 

[snapppyd]

What makes you think I don't have situational awareness? Because I don't assume all men are rapists?

Because you weren't telling your friend about situation awareness. You made an offensive statement.

What is sad is that you don't see it any different than making the same statement about race.

Why do you keep trying to make this about race? You're mentioned it more than once.

I'm a guy, but I've walked around big cities enough, and been to enough bars to know that the behavior seen in the video is pretty common.

Earlier, a poster stated this is a problem that men need to fix. I'm wondering what exactly do they want man who doesn't do this, or hang around with other guys who do this, do to fix the problem?

How about teach your sons, younger brothers/relatives that this is not acceptable behavior? Ask your friends who do it if it ever led to a real relationship?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

It just got all SRS "check your privilege" in here...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, you are a country bumpkin. What is considered appropriate in some cultures is considered rude in others. Those men on video knew what they were doing was rude (since they were probably from this area), and so were harassing that woman. NYers a nice lot - if you need to ask someone a question, chat it up at a bar, etc., it's all good. However, the rule of thumb while walking or taking public transportation is to say nothing, and don't make eye contact. Everyone IS in a hurry.

I found this with my first google hit of how to act like a New Yorker:

6 Know how to treat your fellow New Yorkers. In general, it's safe to assume that everyone you meet is in a hurry. Here are some more specific tips:
If you need directions, most New Yorkers will probably help you. However, keep your question short and to the point.
Don't make eye contact and smile at everyone you pass on the sidewalk. You're going to pass a lot of people, and friendliness will get tiring soon.
Ignore street hassle. If someone catcalls or whistles at you, try to act like it didn't even register with you. Above all, don't look at your harassers.
Know how to respond to people who ask for your attention. Don't cheer for the subway buskers. Don't give beggars money. Ignore people handing out fliers.

Read it. Been to NYC twice. Followed it. All good.

Not a country bumpkin. But this rules don't tell people they will be thought of as strange.

Thankfully--not a single cat call while I was there. So that's nice. But a cat call isn't the same as a smile.

 

[olwyngdh]

What makes you think I don't have situational awareness? Because I don't assume all men are rapists?

Because you weren't telling your friend about situation awareness. You made an offensive statement.

What is sad is that you don't see it any different than making the same statement about race.

No, YOU see it as the same as making the same statement about race. I don't. In fact, I already stated that. Race has nothing to do with it. You are the one who brought race into it.

It is nice that your reality is different. I hope it stays that way. But I won't risk my life for you. You just go on feeling superior since it is so important to you.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

How about teach your sons, younger brothers/relatives that this is not acceptable behavior? Ask your friends who do it if it ever led to a real relationship?

What makes you assume he doesn't? And he's already said that's NOT how his friends act.

 

[snapppyd]

What makes you assume he doesn't? And he's already said that's NOT how his friends act.

He asked what a man who doesn't do this can do to fix the problem. I said teach younger relatives not to act that way. He asked and I answered, didn't assume anything

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Why do you keep trying to make this about race? You're mentioned it more than once.



How about teach your sons, younger brothers/relatives that this is not acceptable behavior? Ask your friends who do it if it ever led to a real relationship?

It is called an analogy.

No one is making it about race other than to say--unless you are willing to say a black people should be assumed thugs until proven otherwise, you have no business saying all men are potential rapists.

Being a woman doesn't excuse it.

It is bigotry.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, YOU see it as the same as making the same statement about race. I don't. In fact, I already stated that. Race has nothing to do with it. You are the one who brought race into it.

It is nice that your reality is different. I hope it stays that way. But I won't risk my life for you. You just go on feeling superior since it is so important to you.

It isn't superiority. Just pointing out why your statement is offensive. Saying it keeps you alive is just a cover.