Weird Dress Code Question

[branv]

Its actually an exception to have ladies be able to leave their hats on.

The logic is the same as wearing your coat in the house. Hats are for outdoor wear. You don't go visiting and leave your overcoat and galoshes on - it makes it look like you are ready to bolt out the door. So you take off all our outerwear.

Ladies hats evolved from outwear into items of fashion, and were - for over a hundred years - relatively complicated things that involved hat pins. Because it wasn't reasonable to expect a lady to remove her hat when it had been literally pinned into her hair, ladies got an exception to the rule. Properly dressed ladies always wore hats, and it was assumed you would have the hat properly pinned and therefore could not easily remove it. As hats became more complicated things, the exception became more necessary. (BTW, you were still expected to remove your hat at the opera or the theatre if had the potential to block a view - which evolved into close fitting opera hats as a fashion accessory). Now its barely necessary at all - few people not related to the British Royal Family wear the kind of hats that require pins - but the exception remains - but only for those types of hats. Caps do not have an exception for either gender. Chances are pretty good that 98% of the women in this thread will never have an occation on which it is more proper to wear a hat and should be taking theirs off too - with the possible exception of some churches or temples where covering your head is a sign of respect.

Well aside from fashion, there was also a time even in judeo-christian mainstream where a respectable woman HAD to cover her hair. And fairly far into the 20th century in catholic churches, women were expected to enter the church with their hair covered (some may still be like that, anyone?) And as we know, there are still some stricter judeo-christian groups that still require a woman's hair to be covered, whether by hat, cloth or wig.

 

[ChristaDeVil]

My theory is that the baseball cap that I'm wearing is WAY less offensive than my hair underneath!

 

[crisi]

Well aside from fashion, there was also a time even in judeo-christian mainstream where a respectable woman HAD to cover her hair. And fairly far into the 20th century in catholic churches, women were expected to enter the church with their hair covered (some may still be like that, anyone?) And as we know, there are still some stricter judeo-christian groups that still require a woman's hair to be covered, whether by hat, cloth or wig.

Yep, which is why there is still the church holdover. If you ever visit churches in Europe, bring a scarf so you can cover your head - but a scarf will do for that purpose - many churches in Europe still hold to the rule (the Vatican does). Also, a lot of African American churches still conform to the women's hats in church rule - though I think this is slipping - its always fun to drive by the AA Baptist Church as service is letting out to watch the ladies with their hats. If you are ever invited to a service outside your own denomination and you suspect the covered head thing might be in effect, it is never a bad idea to throw a scarf in your purse.

Some religious men also require head coverings. Orthodox Jews and Sikhs off the top of my head will always have their head covered in public. It is never appropriate to expect someone wearing a headcovering for religious reasons to remove it - even if it is a man in a restaurant.

 

[willis37862]

I have to say, I would much rather the TS restaurants ban men from wearing tank tops, than worry about their hats. Nasty man underarm hair while I'm trying to eat is much more offensive to me, yuk! I don't care if a man leaves his hat on in a restaurant or not--I do care if they wouldn't remove it for the national anthem...

And, sometimes a hat is just a hat, not "other issues".

Oh I agree 100% I hate to see men in tank tops anywhere though!

 

[disneyfav4ever]

What's with the personal attacks? We don't even know the guy. Why is everyone judging their relationship because he feels more comfortable wearing a hat? It's his choice to not remove it. It's his choice not to patronize a restaurant that won't allow it. People can have an opinion on it, but I don't think that makes him a bad person or justifies some of these personal attacks.

Everybody has their quirks. I guess everybody else is perfect.

She has posted a lot of interesting things about her fiance in past threads. He doesn't always come across as the nicest and most considerate of guys out there.

But you're right-- it's her business. It's also my opinion that I would not tolerate such nonsense from anyone I was dating.

And, anyway, why is it a personal attack to ask if he will refuse to take the hat off for a wedding?

Ah, I see. I wasn't aware that this is a continuing saga.

Well, looking back on the first post - maybe it wasn't. I guess since OP mentioned about restaurants that maybe questioning about a wedding was a bit of a dig since it's an extreme circumstance. Maybe it was a serious question, it's hard to tell the tone over the Internet.

My DF is not bad like certain posters make him out to be. A lot of what I say about him gets twisted and turned around, and makes him seem like a jerk, but he is really a very nice guy. Everyone that knows him in real life thinks he's one of the kindest nicest guys ever. He just has issues with taking his hat off, something about it being a kind of "security blanket."

 

[Jennasis]

Its actually an exception to have ladies be able to leave their hats on.

The logic is the same as wearing your coat in the house. Hats are for outdoor wear. You don't go visiting and leave your overcoat and galoshes on - it makes it look like you are ready to bolt out the door. So you take off all our outerwear.

Ladies hats evolved from outwear into items of fashion, and were - for over a hundred years - relatively complicated things that involved hat pins. Because it wasn't reasonable to expect a lady to remove her hat when it had been literally pinned into her hair, ladies got an exception to the rule. Properly dressed ladies always wore hats, and it was assumed you would have the hat properly pinned and therefore could not easily remove it. As hats became more complicated things, the exception became more necessary. (BTW, you were still expected to remove your hat at the opera or the theatre if had the potential to block a view - which evolved into close fitting opera hats as a fashion accessory). Now its barely necessary at all - few people not related to the British Royal Family wear the kind of hats that require pins - but the exception remains - but only for those types of hats. Caps do not have an exception for either gender. Chances are pretty good that 98% of the women in this thread will never have an occation on which it is more proper to wear a hat and should be taking theirs off too - with the possible exception of some churches or temples where covering your head is a sign of respect.

I see. And what of the scarf wearing craze? I see women wearing knitted scarfs wrapped around their necks all the time, as an item of fashion, not for the cold. Watch American Idol practically any week and usually at least one contestant is sporting a scarf.

Come to think of it...the OP never asked us anything about her DFi and whether he should/should not remove his hat or anything about which restaurants might require him to do so. She reall y only asked if we thought that it was sexist that men are asked to take their hats off.

Once again I think the personal attacks on the OP (from ehr usual troupe of stalkers) is uncalled for. OP I BEG you to stop posting for a while. Or change your username and lay low.

 

[branv]

Also, a lot of African American churches still conform to the women's hats in church rule - though I think this is slipping - its always fun to drive by the AA Baptist Church as service is letting out to watch the ladies with their hats.

Funny you said that, we were driving to brunch about a month ago and happened to drive by this tiny, old-fashioned AA Baptist church (you know what I mean, the white siding, steeple, very charming). Out came this group of elderly people -- the women in lovely suits with gorgeous hats on, the men wearing full suits, tie pins and putting on their fedora style hats as the exited! I loved seeing that -- I hate getting dressed up plenty of times, but sometimes I wish there was still a little pomp and circumstance.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I have to say, I would much rather the TS restaurants ban men from wearing tank tops, than worry about their hats. Nasty man underarm hair while I'm trying to eat is much more offensive to me, yuk! I don't care if a man leaves his hat on in a restaurant or not--I do care if they wouldn't remove it for the national anthem...

And, sometimes a hat is just a hat, not "other issues".

I agree completely! I haven't been to the World in the summer since I was a kid, but I've read posts about women using their breasts to carry their phones, water bottles, etc., tiny shorts on big women, white, see-thru shorts on men who are wearing socks in their shorts, bikini tops, etc., which I find much more disturbing. As I previously posted, when I'm in Disney this summer, I'll be wearing my baseball cap when I'm indoors -- I'm not about to show my flat, sweaty hair to everyone in the restaurant. I'm not being disrespectful, just not willing to feel uncomfortable with my appearance for someone else sake.

And I'm appalled at the way OP and her fiance are being attacked. I'm wondering if anyone who thinks its okay to be so vicious is also a mom or dad whose posted on DIS about their little angel being bullied by kids in school. Because, IMHO, this is EXACTLY what's happening. This woman is being bullied because she asked a question. And the suggestion that she go away for a while or change her name, although it would give her peace, is completely the wrong course. If your child was being bullied would you tell her not to go to school for a while until things calmed down? All of this animosity over a hat!?

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Well, everyone except my parents like him, but they've never really liked any of my friends as far as I can recall.

 

[momrek06]

He just has issues with taking his hat off, something about it being a kind of "security blanket."

OP, I certainly understand people having the need for a "security blanket" but really though we leave them at home when we head out. I just think that is a rather lame excuse for him not taking his hat off. I mean if we were talking about a toddler SURE but your DF is an adult. Must adults outgrow the need for a "security blanket", IMHO!!!

Is his "hat" PINK like you posted?

Here in my town, it is posted all over the different banks, "NO HATS NO SUNGLASSES"what would he do if he lived in my town?????

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Is his "hat" PINK like you posted?

Here in my town, it is posted all over the different banks, "NO HATS NO SUNGLASSES"what would he do if he lived in my town?????

No, it's not pink, I believe I said that when I posted the pic. I guess it's a good thing we don't live in your town, since he would probably just not go to the bank then, or use the drive thru.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Well, everyone except my parents like him, but they've never really liked any of my friends as far as I can recall.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you need to defend your fiance to a bunch of strangers, whether he's the nicest guy in the world or the world's biggest jerk.

 

[crisi]

I see. And what of the scarf wearing craze? I see women wearing knitted scarfs wrapped around their necks all the time, as an item of fashion, not for the cold. Watch American Idol practically any week and usually at least one contestant is sporting a scarf.

A scarf worn around the neck as an item of fashion is an item of fashion. Happen to have a silk one draped around my neck right now. I haven't seen too many scarves worn inside that were designed for a day of sledding and skating - wearing one of those inside would probably be rude.

Now, you want a real manners debate, start the guests and shoes in the house debate....that really gets into are shoes outerwear or not, something not universally agreed on by culture - and it gets very heated.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I'm sorry, but I don't think you need to defend your fiance to a bunch of strangers, whether he's the nicest guy in the world or the world's biggest jerk.

I think you're right, but everytime someone starts attacking me, I feel the need to defend myself.

 

[momrek06]

I'm not throwing my hat into the ring, but I see a lot of people concerned that a young woman may be tying herself to a young man who has several "red flags" in this thread alone (never heard of this poster before this). It is possible that the motivations of at least some of these people are actually kind.

First of all


ITA!!! I have never heard of this poster but that probably means nothing...but with all the RED flags, I would hope the OP, would listen to some of the sound advice other posters have given her over time.....(it appears she has posted other threads concerning her DF)!!! JMHO!!! Good luck to you, OP!!!!

 

[JoanieS]

Drives me NUTS when when men wear hats in restaurants. To me, it screams poor manners.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I'm not throwing my hat into the ring, but I see a lot of people concerned that a young woman may be tying herself to a young man who has several "red flags" in this thread alone (never heard of this poster before this). It is possible that the motivations of at least some of these people are actually kind.

I have seen many red flags. I have tried to point them out and she just takes it as picking on her.

As I remember:

1) Trip to WDW - He does not believe in alarms. He turns off his cell at home and has no home phone. He arrived at the airport too late to catch the plane.... but wait.... the plane was delayed. He leaves the airport even when his plane is still at the gate. Never tried to call her on her cell. Never tries to get on another plane. Never called her in WDW for days. This was not the first WDW trip he planned with her and back out of. He is talking about one this summer again. Hotel - GF.

2) She is only allowed to call him at about 5:30 am when he arrives at work. Remember no phone contact at home.

3) There is the parents and the restraining order.

4) He is rich but will not get an apartment with her. Too many excused to name. Remember all the posts about her parents - eating food, stealing food pantry food, labeling of ones food, no fridge in bedroom, only computer allowed in house is in parent's bedroom. etc. Why would a DF not move his GF out. Distance too work too far. Hell DH drives 60 miles one way now and when we were dating would drive 10 miles the opposite way from college to pick me up and then drive me to college.

5) He owns 3 cars, but cannot lend her one.

6) Has medical problems that seem to come and go. One week he is in the hospital on deaths door (I personally hope this is an exaggeration) and the next he works 60 hours. When he goes to the hospital he does not go to the one near them but one far away and she cannot visit.

There are more, but these are the ones I remember.

ETA : She is 24 and he is 35 with a 9-10 year old son. He has an ex who is the boy's mother.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I have seen many red flags. I have tried to point them out and she just takes it as picking on her.

As I remember:

1) Trip to WDW - He does not believe in alarms. He turns off his cell at home and has no home phone. He arrived at the airport too late to catch the plane.... but wait.... the plane was delayed. He leaves the airport even when his plane is still at the gate. Never tried to call her on her cell. Never tries to get on another plane. Never called her in WDW for days. This was not the first WDW trip he planned with her and back out of. He is talking about one this summer again. Hotel - GF.

2) She is only allowed to call him at about 5:30 am when he arrives at work. Remember no phone contact at home.

3) There is the parents and the restraining order.

4) He is rich but will not get an apartment with her. Too many excused to name. Remember all the posts about her parents - eating food, stealing food pantry food, labeling of ones food, no fridge in bedroom, only computer allowed in house is in parent's bedroom. etc. Why would a DF not move his GF out. Distance too work too far. Hell DH drives 60 miles one way now and when we were dating would drive 10 miles the opposite way from college to pick me up and then drive me to college.

5) He owns 3 cars, but cannot lend her one.

6) Has medical problems that seem to come and go. One week he is in the hospital on deaths door (I personally hope this is an exaggeration) and the next he works 60 hours. When he goes to the hospital he does not go to the one near them but one far away and she cannot visit.

There are more, but these are the ones I remember.

ETA : She is 24 and he is 35 with a 9-10 year old son. He has an ex who is the boy's mother.

Do we really have to go through all of this again?

1) He overslept, and missed his flight. He did call me, and I did get a message before boarding the plane. I talked to him several times while in Disney.
2) I'm allowed to call him whenever, it's just that he's very busy when he's at work, and doing his job, so talking to me is not a priority. I usually talk to him at least two or three times a day though.
3) Yes, my parents don't really care for him, but they do not have a restraining order against him.
4) Just because we don't live together doesn't make him a bad person. It just makes more sense right now that we stick with our current living situation.
5) Why would I need him to lend me a car? If I did need one, he would.
6) He prefers the hospital that's farther away, and I don't blame him. Yes, he has medical issues, and they never really completely go away, but he insists on working, even when doctors tell him not too.

I see no reason why my age, his age, the fact that he has a child from a previous marriage, or any of the reasons you listed, (and you did twist them around,) make him a bad person.

 

[acourtwdw]

I thought this was a thread about wearing hats to a resturants.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I thought this was a thread about wearing hats to a resturants.

It was, now it's another "find fault with me and my DF thread," which is why I usually stay off the CB now. I guess they need to harass me somehow though, so they have to harass me on the restaurant board now.