We want Riviera, but can’t pull the trigger.

[PolyRob]

I think being able the access Art of Animations food court via a quick Skyliner ride is a much bigger advantage than going next door to CBR‘s food court IMHO. At least I know that is what I am planning on if the Skyliner starts to run early enough each day.

Have you seen the major changes going on there?

https://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2019/08/major-menu-modifications-debut-at.html

 

[Wakey]

I always think DVD got savvy with cost inflation by making the headline point look attractive, but inflating significantly the points required per night. It’s a simple issue but lost on many of joe public. The costings above v Boardwalk highlight this perfectly- significantly more per night for Riviera, so leaving aside the points cost to buy in, it is a very expensive resort to stay and own at.
I have been to Riviera and for those that have not, you may be quite shocked at just how poor it’s location is. Stuck on the right hand side of the driveway into CBR, it is very close to the road. This is certainly no Boardwalk location, for a standard view you will be close to the road and it looks like directly overlooking a parking lot. Preferred view is overlooking a moderate resort and lake. I could be wrong, but when people stay there I can see see some deflation as they stand on the balcony for the first time.
That being said, I think the resort itself looks very nice and fancy and the rooms look fantastic, this is the reason with the 50 year contract I could still have considered it with the gondola, if the restrictions had not been there. But I would have wanted to visit first. However the restrictions made that decision easy for me.
Interesting to see the resale price gradually dropping, and this is only with a couple of contracts on the market. I still think it will settle around 100,

 

[pineapplepalms]

When you factor in the point charts and lower MFs, the prices can make total sense. I haven't done a full financial analysis of this, but my quick comparisons show:
- Anywhere from a 20-40% point premium at Riviera, depending on room type.
- Beach Club dues 20% cheaper
- Boardwalk dues 16% cheaper

For a week in Dream season, the totals are:
- Beach Club studio, 120 points, $832.80 MF
- Boardwalk standard view studio, 104 points, $745.68 MF
- Boardwalk preferred view studio, 125 points, $896.25 MF
- Riviera standard view studio, 130 points, $1,080.30 MF
- Riviera preferred view studio, 162 points, $1,346.22 MF

Those are just a few examples. But I think it's clear how one can justify paying BCV/BWV resale prices as opposed to RIV*.

Some might say "Riviera is a nicer resort", to which I'd say "we'll see."

Some might say "but there's 28 more years on Riviera", to which I'd say "is that necessarily a good thing, especially in light of the resale restrictions?"

And while I am excited about the gondolas and think they'll work well, walking beats relying on any form of transportation.

I almost added on at Riviera in the spring, but ultimately decided against it for many of the reasons listed in this thread.

* One thing I think all of the analysis on the boards is lacking is a metric that captures the true value of a point at a resort. BWV owners don't need as many points as others because of the point charts. As indicated above, 104 BWV points equals 130 RIV points. Some do mention it in passing, like "VGF is a point hungry resort". But I could imagine a weighted-average type of metric that somehow equalized all points. Pick a baseline resort, then re-work the charts from there to facilitate comparisons when deciding where to buy. Of course, a point is a point at 7 months... but the points do go further at some places, of course, and it might be nice to numerically represent that. Something that shows how Boardwalk points go about 25% farther than Riviera in my example above (or you need 25% more points at Riviera for the same room type / length of trip.

I'll get to work

The other thing to consider is room layout. While RIV rooms cost more points than BWV, the room layout at BWV will push us to a 2BR sooner since the 1BR only has one real bed. We’d like to have separate beds for our kids as they get older and RIV offers that in the 1BR.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the lower point chart at BWV, and the Boardwalk area with walking access to the parks is the best. But we have our reasons for buying RIV too. And so now we own at both.

 

[emchen]

Preferred view is overlooking a moderate resort and lake. I could be wrong, but when people stay there I can see see some deflation as they stand on the balcony for the first time.

You may be wrong on this one @Wakey ... I was curious and looked at satellite Google map and my best guess is that Preferred View are those in the western facing part of the West Tower. There, you likely get simultaneous views of EPCOT and Hollywood Studios' fireworks and light shows, respectively. Day time would be direct line-of-site to both parks and surrounding resorts. Northwest Tower Studios will probably have the best views of all.

 

[Madame]

Have you seen the major changes going on there?

https://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2019/08/major-menu-modifications-debut-at.html

Ugh! We have a 2 night stay there over NYE before moving to BCV. I was expecting a similar menu to the one we’ve had on previous stays. Guess not

 

[Fred M]

I think if the only reason you aren’t buying Riviera is the resale restriction, then you should buy. And if the resale restriction is the main reason not to buy and their are other reasons not to buy (e.g. MF, potential lack of rooms, location), then you shouldn’t.

I think with timeshares people get too worried about losing money on paper but they don’t have the same concern with a mortgage on their house. I bought my house for $340K in 2007. Saw the value plummet to $150K with the mortgage lending fiasco. It’s now worth more than I paid. Until I sell, I haven’t had a profit or loss. And if I sell it for only $200K in 15 years, I wouldn’t say I lost $140K, I’d say I paid $140K for 27 years of a roof over my head. That’s a deal out here in California!

If you use your Riviera points for 15-20 years and have the best time and then are forced to sell for $50 a point, would you really care? I wouldn’t.

 

[McCrae]

I would never buy a resort without checking out the finished resort and rooms first, until you do this you are taking a big gamble. We have found cases where we like the look of the resort, but have been disappointed with the style/layout of the rooms.

The Boardwalk being a good example. For us the resort is in a great location and is a picturesque resort to look at. We were thinking about staying there until we did a tour of the rooms at the resort. We didn’t like the style/layout of the rooms and prefer the 2Br we typically stay at the BLT.

We tend not to like the layout of the older DVC resorts and prefer the layout/style of the newer additions. We won’t buy at Riviera, but will probably stay there a few days to try it out.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

I think if the only reason you aren’t buying Riviera is the resale restriction, then you should buy.

I agree. Buy and use the points and in 10 years you will forget you ever spent time worrying about the purchase in the first place.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The other thing to consider is room layout. While RIV rooms cost more points than BWV, the room layout at BWV will push us to a 2BR sooner since the 1BR only has one real bed. We’d like to have separate beds for our kids as they get older and RIV offers that in the 1BR.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the lower point chart at BWV, and the Boardwalk area with walking access to the parks is the best. But we have our reasons for buying RIV too. And so now we own at both.

They murphy bed/couch is going into SSR during the refurb there and it's expected to go into other resorts when they have their refurbs.
And BWV currently allows 5 into a studio too.

 

[rspencer38]

I agree. Buy and use the points and in 10 years you will forget you ever spent time worrying about the purchase in the first place.

^^ This!

I get the fear of losing your shirt if you sell Riviera shortly after purchasing. However, I agree with the statement above, 10+ years into your contract you will hardly remember the fear of the initial purchase. A decade of savings and fantastic memories is really what you purchase, and who knows, you may still come out ahead in 10 years.

 

[pineapplepalms]

They murphy bed/couch is going into SSR during the refurb there and it's expected to go into other resorts when they have their refurbs.
And BWV currently allows 5 into a studio too.

I know, I’m looking forward to the refurb at SSR! We own there too. We prefer 1BRs and larger due to the space, kitchen, and washer/dryer, so the BWV studio doesn’t really work for us, plus I don’t like the sofabeds. Looking forward to them adding the Murphy bed to other refurbs, but RIV worked best for us since we wanted an EP/HS area resort with a longer contract after our BWV contract ends and the room layouts were part of what we like about RIV. I know not everyone feels this way, but personally I’m looking forward to the gondolas.

 

[Fred M]

However, I agree with the statement above, 10+ years into your contract you will hardly remember the fear of the initial purchase.

Of course, we've all signed up for a program where in 50 years, our DVC points will be absolutely worthless.

 

[Jiminy76]

Have you seen the major changes going on there?

https://www.orlandoparksnews.com/2019/08/major-menu-modifications-debut-at.html

Wow this is very disappointing. The vegetarian breakfast sandwich is no more.

 

[Momtomouselover]

They murphy bed/couch is going into SSR during the refurb there and it's expected to go into other resorts when they have their refurbs.
And BWV currently allows 5 into a studio too.

I really like the bed/murphy bed layout at Riviera but have issues with other things about the resort making me hold back on purchasing. Where can I find a list of the refurb years for each DVC resort? No promises I'm sure but if a murphy was going into other resorts that would be a big plus IMO.

 

[McCrae]

I really like the bed/murphy bed layout at Riviera but have issues with other things about the resort making me hold back on purchasing. Where can I find a list of the refurb years for each DVC resort? No promises I'm sure but if a murphy was going into other resorts that would be a big plus IMO.

Murphy beds are already used at a number of resorts.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

I really like the bed/murphy bed layout at Riviera but have issues with other things about the resort making me hold back on purchasing. Where can I find a list of the refurb years for each DVC resort? No promises I'm sure but if a murphy was going into other resorts that would be a big plus IMO.

I've tried compiling a list for myself over the last several years. I think it's pretty close to correct but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

Soft Goods
BWV 2015
AKV 2016 (Jambo & Kidani)
THV 2016
BLT 2016
Aulani 2020
VGF 2021
PVB 2022


Full Refurb
BWV 2009
HHI 2014
VWL 2014
BCV 2016
VBR 2016 (Inn Rooms & Villas)
VBR 2017 (Cottages)
VGC 2017
BLT 2017
OKW 2017 – 2019
SSR 2019 - 2021
HHI 2021
BRV 2021

 

[Momtomouselover]

Murphy beds are already used at a number of resorts.

I said DVC resorts and the murphy bed/couch style. It is only at the Riviera as far as I'm aware and it appears the remodel of SSR based on what was said above. Are there others at DVC resorts?

 

[McCrae]

I said DVC resorts and the murphy bed/couch style. It is only at the Riviera as far as I'm aware and it appears the remodel of SSR based on what was said above. Are there others at DVC resorts?

Yes, BLT, VGC, Animal Kingdom Lodge and I think VGF all have Murphy style coach/beds. I am currently sitting on one at BLT. Other DVC resorts may have them as well.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I really like the bed/murphy bed layout at Riviera but have issues with other things about the resort making me hold back on purchasing. Where can I find a list of the refurb years for each DVC resort? No promises I'm sure but if a murphy was going into other resorts that would be a big plus IMO.

The Announcments at the annual meeting in 2018 were as follows and would be the ones to get the murphy beds. We've seen them from photos of SSR only leaving HHI and BRV in question. They did add a statement though that they were determined to get the sofa sleeper "right" which now seems to mean changing them to the sofa/murphy bed like is seen at Riviera and now SSR.

Full Refurbishments
SSR 2019
HHI 2021
BRV 2021

OKW was just completed without the sofa/murphy bed but the room configurations there don't really leave a spot for that type of furniture because of all the windows. It probably is the location you could figure will keep the pull out style although it does have a fairly comfortable pull out sleeper chair too.

Full refurbishments are set for every 14 years and soft goods every 7 years.

Following these WDW resorts would likely be BWV and BCV with AKV, BLT, VGF, PVB and CCV in that order mixed in somehow.

The Soft goods announcements were:
Aulani - 2020
VGF - 2021
PVB - 2022
Normally they would not get new furniture during that time.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I've tried compiling a list for myself over the last several years. I think it's pretty close to correct but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

Soft Goods
BWV 2015 (this was a full refurb)
AKV 2016 (Jambo & Kidani)
THV 2016
BLT 2016
Aulani 2020
VGF 2021
PVB 2022


Full Refurb
BWV 2009 (this was a soft goods - at BWV. OKW was the first resort to get a so called full refurb and that started in 2010)
HHI 2014
VWL 2014
BCV 2016
VBR 2016 (Inn Rooms & Villas)
VBR 2017 (Cottages)
VGC 2017 (this was soft goods)
BLT 2017 (this was soft goods)
OKW 2017 – 2019
SSR 2019 - 2021
HHI 2021
BRV 2021

A couple of things I see I highlighted above.