We want Riviera, but can’t pull the trigger.

[ELMC]

I’m also having a hard time pulling the trigger. The high MFs to start don’t help and uncertainty on increases too (given 2019). However, resale restrictions are a big part of my hesitation.

I don't blame you. Assuming a modest 3% increase each year, DRR resort dues will be roughly equal to today's VB dues in just four years. And we all know that VB is the devil because of its high dues right now.

To your point about resale restrictions, remember that many timeshares sell for a dollar just so people can get out of the annual dues payment (and those resales carry some pretty heavy restrictions). Now I'm not suggesting that will happen with DRR, but I don't think it will behave like resales for the OG 14. It will likely be somewhere in the middle.

 

[Minniesgal]

I agree I don't particularly like Riviera but even if I loved it I wouldn't buy with those restrictions.

 

[rg35]

I don't see the rush to buy in. As we have seen with every other DVC resort, there will always be points available to buy. Rushing to buy in just seems like FOMO, but with all the uncertainty around Riviera and the long term value of contracts there, not the best decision for an informed buyer to make.

If you simply don't care about that and view your DVC buy as a sunk cost (which is probably the best way to view it anyway), then you should buy. But if you think you'll be unhappy later on and really expecting to be able to sell your DVC at some point, then buying now probably isn't the best idea.

 

[Helvetica]

I share the same concerns. I love Rivera, but the restrictions scared me off along with the fear of an upcoming recession.

I'm going to hold tight right now and see what happens. I plan to wait for the recession and maybe get a good deal on a resale contract at Animal Kingdom Lodge.

 

[Drewferin]

The RIV dues will remain the same for 2020 based on what Disney has indicated. If you add 10% increases again this year some resorts will be around RIV.

AkV at 7.44 x 1.1 = 8.19 a point vs 8.33 a point for RIV. The real question will be what happens in 2021 for all resort dues including RIv.

Due questions are one thing, but the resale restrictions are something to ponder...

 

[JasonMak2000]

Resale restrictions are definitely something to consider for sure because it certainly will affect resale value. However, there doesn't seem to be near the fear and warnings being leveled towards beach club or boardwalk direct. If you have to sell in 10-15 years then I dont think you are getting top dollar for those 2042 resorts. If you dont like RIV rooms, or location or point chart or MFs then that's one thing, but if you go on the advice of buy where you want to stay and dont assume you will get your money back on resale then I think it's totally fine to buy RIV. Just buy a small contract(s). People will be more likely to take a chance on a small contract resale as an add-on IMO.

 

[ELMC]

The resale restrictions are an issue, but not for everybody. They're the DVC equivalent of a prenuptial agreement. If you go into a marriage planning for the divorce, you get one. If you go into DVC planning to sell eventually, you don't buy Riviera. But if you go into marriage like many others, not even imagining the possibility of it not lasting forever, then what do you care about resale restrictions?

 

[kniquy]

The cost spread between sold out direct resorts and their resale value is currently about $60 to $80 for many of the resorts -- so buying Riviera is really not that much more of a risk at this point.

The risks comes from buying Rivera at $188 per point but if you need to sell soon into your ownership you will take a greater hit than compared to buying any other resort either direct or resale. Rivera will likely be significantly lower price per point than any other resort. Pretty much any loss of money is a bad thing so buying riviera does set you up to lose more money than other resorts.

 

[Marionnette]

The resale restrictions are an issue, but not for everybody. They're the DVC equivalent of a prenuptial agreement. If you go into a marriage planning for the divorce, you get one. If you go into DVC planning to sell eventually, you don't buy Riviera. But if you go into marriage like many others, not even imagining the possibility of it not lasting forever, then what do you care about resale restrictions?

I disagree. Having a significant number of resale owners (about 20% of all points sold, or more) who can only book at RIV is going to stress the booking system at 11-7 months. That will impact every owner, regardless of whether they purchased resale or direct. Even though the direct owners would be able to book an L14 or future resorts at 7 months, who wants to spend $$$$$$$ for a direct contract at RIV where you can’t book your home resort? You might as well make a direct purchase at one of the cheaper L14 resorts instead.

Think about how many CCV owners purchased just enough points to book studios only to learn that getting a CCV studio is a pretty hard reservation. Now imagine what would have happened if 20% of those points could only be used at CCV and could not even be combined at 7 months with points from another resort with the same UY because they, too, are under the same “home resort only” restrictions. That’s what the future looks like for RIV and future resorts.

 

[ELMC]

I disagree. Having a significant number of resale owners (about 20% of all points sold, or more) who can only book at RIV is going to stress the booking system at 11-7 months. That will impact every owner, regardless of whether they purchased resale or direct. Even though the direct owners would be able to book an L14 or future resorts at 7 months, who wants to spend $$$$$$$ for a direct contract at RIV where you can’t book your home resort? You might as well make a direct purchase at one of the cheaper L14 resorts instead.

Think about how many CCV owners purchased just enough points to book studios only to learn that getting a CCV studio is a pretty hard reservation. Now imagine what would have happened if 20% of those points could only be used at CCV and could not even be combined at 7 months with points from another resort with the same UY because they, too, are under the same “home resort only” restrictions. That’s what the future looks like for RIV and future resorts.

You bring up a good point. I was referring only to the impact on exit. You have brought up the impact on use, which is very real and very significant.

 

[mustinjourney]

The risks comes from buying Rivera at $188 per point but if you need to sell soon into your ownership you will take a greater hit than compared to buying any other resort either direct or resale. Rivera will likely be significantly lower price per point than any other resort. Pretty much any loss of money is a bad thing so buying riviera does set you up to lose more money than other resorts.

we actually don't know that yet. Once Riviera opens and if the skyliner is everything Disney hopes it will be, the Riviera could become the Grand Floridian of Epcot/DHS area. It could supplant both BCV and BWV -- and if that is the case, THOSE property values could plummet and Riviera resale will maintain good value. Look at VGC -- I guarantee you that most people buying that on the resale market have practically zero intention of using those points anywhere but VGC. Riviera could be the same.

 

[DougEMG]

we actually don't know that yet. Once Riviera opens and if the skyliner is everything Disney hopes it will be, the Riviera could become the Grand Floridian of Epcot/DHS area. It could supplant both BCV and BWV -- and if that is the case, THOSE property values could plummet and Riviera resale will maintain good value. Look at VGC -- I guarantee you that most people buying that on the resale market have practically zero intention of using those points anywhere but VGC. Riviera could be the same.

Seriously doubt that the Riviera is ever going to be more popular than BWV or BCV.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I would buy direct at another resort without those restrictions and book Riviera at 7 months. I mean personally I wouldn't do that, but in OPs case I would take that path.

 

[Katie L]

we actually don't know that yet. Once Riviera opens and if the skyliner is everything Disney hopes it will be, the Riviera could become the Grand Floridian of Epcot/DHS area. It could supplant both BCV and BWV -- and if that is the case, THOSE property values could plummet and Riviera resale will maintain good value. Look at VGC -- I guarantee you that most people buying that on the resale market have practically zero intention of using those points anywhere but VGC. Riviera could be the same.

Walking will always be more desirable than any means of transportation that could fail. I have high hopes for the skyliner but it's not going to beat walking through the IG.

 

[mustinjourney]

Seriously doubt that the Riviera is ever going to be more popular than BWV or BCV.

in 20 years those contracts won't likely be so desirable.

 

[mustinjourney]

Walking will always be more desirable than any means of transportation that could fail. I have high hopes for the skyliner but it's not going to beat walking through the IG.

technically speaking you will still be walking through the IG with the skyliners.

 

[DougEMG]

in 20 years those contracts won't likely be so desirable.

BVC and BWV will always be more popular resorts. In 20 years both resorts will be close to there end of contract and thus close to be reopened as a new resort, so Riviera contracts could see a big drop in price as people wait for the new BCV and
BWV to open.

At the end of the day Riviera is on the grounds of a moderate location and has the same transportation as some of the values resorts (buses and gondola) so why pay a premium for those items when they are available cheaper.

 

[Marionnette]

in 20 years those contracts won't likely be so desirable.

In 20 years, that isn’t going to matter much to someone who owns BWV or BCV today. They will have still gotten 20 years of easy access to two parks and RIV will be almost halfway to the end of their contracts.

Another point, a night at BWV or BCV is still going to take fewer points than a comparable room at RIV 20 years from now. People are still going to want to stay at those resorts if they can save on points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

In 20 years, that isn’t going to matter much to someone who owns BWV or BCV today. They will have still gotten 20 years of easy access to two parks and RIV will be almost halfway to the end of their contracts.

Another point, a night at BWV or BCV is still going to take fewer points than a comparable room at RIV 20 years from now. People are still going to want to stay at those resorts if they can save on points.

And there's no surprised about it. It is set to end and every buyer knows that (or should). It's not that they won't be desirable because unless Epcot or WDW tanks they will still be desirable places to stay. They just won't be worth as much because they don't have as much use left. And as you mention, Riviera will about be at the point that BCV and BWV are for their current owners. I for one also like that these contracts have an end date. You know it and can factor it in. The resale restrictions? So much unknown about them and for me there's little to like about them.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

we actually don't know that yet. Once Riviera opens and if the skyliner is everything Disney hopes it will be, the Riviera could become the Grand Floridian of Epcot/DHS area. It could supplant both BCV and BWV -- and if that is the case, THOSE property values could plummet and Riviera resale will maintain good value. Look at VGC -- I guarantee you that most people buying that on the resale market have practically zero intention of using those points anywhere but VGC. Riviera could be the same.

But VGC resale buyers could use them elsewhere if they ever wanted or needed to. That's the difference.