We tried to warn him................(thick headed family member)

[hugsquared]

That's one of the most illogical comparisons I've ever seen. No civilian job compares to the situation you put yourself if when you sign military papers.

Given that, it's flat out sick that we can't trust our own citizens.

If you could calm down for just one second, the comparison is simply made for the fact that all sorts of "promises" are made for all kinds of jobs for all kinds of reasons. And I really don't care whether you find it logical or not. Last time I checked your posts, most were insane to say the least. And your opinion of me or my thoughts will certainly not cause me to lose any sleep.
And I am STILL asking you, would the draft be a better solution?

 

[jwsqrdplus2]

I never intended for this thread to become such a heated debate....I never doubted, for even one second, that my great nephew would be sent to Iraq. I'm not even going to try and guess what the recruiter said to him. I was venting frustration at my nephew (the 'dad', if you will). Not only is he a grown man (not an 18 yr old kid fresh out of high school...he had the recruiters at his high school in Kodiak AK), but he is a police officer for crying out loud! He even met with the recruiter!! The rest of the family, down here on the "mainland" all said it can't be so. I think if the recruiter convinced my 18 yr old great nephew he wouldn't be sent...could spend all his time taking courses...shame on the recruiter. If the recruiter told my adult nephew not to worry about his son...........shame on my nephew!!!

Thank you for coming back on this thread and posting that. I had some thoughts I wanted to post that basically said this. Fortunately, I read the entire thread and you took some of the wind out of my sails (and that is a good thing!!) I hope your great nephew is fine. Choosing the serve is a noble decision, especially in today's atmosphere.

And here is the one thought that pervaded my brain the entire time I read this thread: I found it very interesting that this thread was posted and argued on Veteran's Day!

 

[shy little mouse]

And here is the one thought that pervaded my brain the entire time I read this thread: I found it very interesting that this thread was posted and argued on Veteran's Day!

And you can thank a veteran for that! We owe many of our freedoms to those who have spent time defending them. Whether you agree or not with the current conflicts the military is engaged in, you at least owe respect for our military! It is sad to see those who lack even a modicum of respect for those who have performed such a great service to their country.

As for the argument that the military targets those with lower grades from the poorer areas, you could say that my husband was one of those kids. My husband went into the military after high school, and he will emphatically tell you that it was the best thing he could have ever done with his life at that point. He came from a broken home where both his mother and father never graduated high school and his older sisters have not done anything careerwise with their lives either. I can't even begin to tell you the night and day difference from their lives to ours. He is four classes away from finishing his Master's degree right now, and is the best husband and dad I could have ever asked for. He completely credits the military with making a man out of him; Lord knows it wasn't the influence of his absent father. Did those evil recruiters take advantage of him? Nope. He always knew war and death were possibilities. Even in peacetime people die in the military. He worked in personnel, and had to deal with paperwork surrounding accidental military deaths.

Recruiters have a hard job. If I am not mistaken, my husband was going to go to officer's school (before he went to college to get his degree) and without a degree his choices were to work basic training or recruit. Perhaps that has changed, but recruiting was a way for an enlisted man to work up the ranks. It wasn't a military "career" that most people really wanted to do. Instead we got married, he finished up his time in the reserves, and went to college.

 

[va32h]

My husband spent three years as a recruiter for the Army Reserves. He was detailed for the position (i.e. ordered to do it - the standard joke being that they have to order you to do it because no one will volunteer).

My husband didn't lie to his prospects. He has spent his entire adult life in the military, and sincerely believes that it can be a valuable, productive, and worthy career for anyone.

But I would be lying if I said that he didn't see some very shady and dishonest things going on in his station.

Recruiters who would fudge on background checks ("we only check to see if you have a criminal record in the states you say you've lived in. So where do you say you've lived" wink wink) Or suggesting products that would allow a prospect to pass a drug test. One station was in the business of manufacturing high school diplomas and GEDs (they were caught, and court martialed).

And like any salesmen, they are given scripts that are carefully worded. "You could receive $XX in bonuses, you could be trained for one of these exciting careers".

And of course the fine print is "if you meet these specific criteria, and your bonus is paid in yearly installments for four years" and that career is dependent on your score on the ASVAB test.

I am not trying to excuse any illegal or dishonest behavior on the part of recruiters, but it isn't hard for me to see why so many get driven to that point.

The pressure to "make mission" (quota) is enormous. My husband would work 14-16 hours per day, at least 6 days a week. If the recruiters hadn't made mission, his station commander would make them stay at the office until 10pm making cold call after cold call. She would berate them constantly, telling them they should be ashamed to take their paychecks and were a waste of oxygen. (I know, that's just namecalling, but you get sick of it day after day, for three years). They would be yelled at, cussed at, told their careers were over; they had little notebooks with all their appointments and calls, and the station commander would review it and sign it each day, making critical remarks every step of the way. Again, not exactly torturous, but it was demeaning and wearing, day after day, after day.

My husband wasn't allowed to take a day off to bring me and our newborn son home from the hospital, because it was the last week of the month, and he hadn't made mission.

So in the midst of this stressful work situation, mix in a spouse who is either tearful or mad because she never sees you, and children who cry when they do see you because they've practically forgotten you. (My oldest actually asked if her dad and I had gotten divorced, because she was always gone to bed when he came home, or still asleep when he left in the morning.)

Recruiters have very high rates of divorce, suicided, and substance abuse. It's a miserable job.

I don't know what the solution is, I just remember what a long miserable three years that was, and am just thankful that we are out of it now.

 

[LastTycoon]

Recruiters have very high rates of divorce, suicided, and substance abuse. It's a miserable job.

No doubt. PBS had a special on Army recruitment a few months ago and it was.... eye-opening to say the least. Several guys said they'd rather be in Iraq than in the recruitment office. I felt terrible for most of them.

Whatever the answers are to the Army's recruitment issues, there is a potentially calamitous mismatch between the Bush administration's avowed intentions in foreign policy and its tangible means. They can print or borrow money to float the national debt. They can't clone or borrow soldiers to float an imperial army.

The one good thing that would come out of a draft is that it would instantly give every American family a stake in U.S. foreign policy. With a volunteer Army, issues of war and peace are almost abstract; only a tiny portion of the population is directly affected. With a draft, everybody's life is on the line—a turbulent state that can energize and unify a country under serious threat but tear the same country apart in a war of stalemate or dubious motive. Most of our leaders could not possibly want the intense debate that even the prospect of a draft would inspire.

 

[cardaway]

Last time I checked your posts, most were insane to say the least.

Nevermind, not even worth it.

 

[Lil_Tink]

So sorry..Hope hes gonna be ok...


Thats why Im gonna join the coastguard.. They dont really go to iraq.

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

These are young innocent kids trying to eat their lunch, socialize a little with their friends then go back to their class to get an education. They don't deserve to have these young men all decked out in their uniforms come and approach them and tell them lies. Not fair, not right!

Hate to break it to ya but military recruiters have been on high school campuses for at least 15 years. Students do have a right to learn about the military and speak with these men and women. Once they turn 18 they have the right to decide wether or not to serve in the military. No one is forcing them to sign up.

There are "young innocent kids" dying every week in Iraq and Afghanastan. Is that fair or right?

It is fair and it is right. Not all recruiters lie, and if you were to hear a lie told by a recruiter and tell their CO I'm sure it would be delt with. Heck, alert the principal but frankly the tone of your typing sounds like a tizzy fit by a child.

Now,
I went to enlist in the military. I was lied to and romanced by my recruiter and the end I decided the military was not the right choice for me. However I am smart enough to know that not all recruiters are like him, his behavior was not OK (and I reported it) and that no matter what job I took I would not thrive in the enviornment offered by the military.

I also don't support this war but I am also smart enough to know that the people fighting this war are doing as they are told regardless of their opnions. I'm also smart enough to know that people who are for this war have good reasons, and I respect the people even though I disagree with their opnions. Dispite my personal views on our current world I have the upmost respect for those in the military.

I can't stand this right for thee but not for me or my loved ones attitude going on.

Flame suit on!

 

[cardaway]

So sorry..Hope hes gonna be ok...


Thats why Im gonna join the coastguard.. They dont really go to iraq.

They get close enough. A co-worker has been twice.

 

[Longsx3]

So sorry..Hope hes gonna be ok...


Thats why Im gonna join the coastguard.. They dont really go to iraq.

Good Luck in your Coast Guard Career, I have had 3 family member in the Coast Guard and all enjoyed the careers.

That being said if you are joining the Coast Guard, rather than the AF, Navy, Amry, or Marines, with the thought that you are not going to have to go to Iraq you could be wrong. In early 2003 there were 8 Coast Cutters deployed to the persian Gulf where it was considered a war zone. So while it is not highly likely that you would go to Iraq you always need to be prepared.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

So sorry..Hope hes gonna be ok...


Thats why Im gonna join the coastguard.. They dont really go to iraq.

My Brother is in the CG. They had to go to Mexico where there are lots of drug lords. It is a VERY dangerous situation. People being kidnapped, helicopters shot down, etc. We were very nervous while my Brother was there.

Before he joined the CG he had an Army recruiter calling all of the time. One day, after he joined, the recruiter called. I told him my Bro had joined the CG. The guy was absolutely crestfallen and asked why he did it. I could just hear the disappointment in his voice.

 

[always quiet]

And here is the one thought that pervaded my brain the entire time I read this thread: I found it very interesting that this thread was posted and argued on Veteran's Day!

There was "motive" to posting this on Veteran's Day..........I received an email from my nephew yesterday morning....no hidden agenda.

 

[poohbear1029]

I dont even know if I should even post on this. But I just love the crowd of "not in my backyard" --- people dont like that recruiters come to their twons/neighborhoods/schools. We as a nation dont want it to be our son, daughter or husband making the sacrifice, but then when terrorists hit on our soil, or hurricanes ravage our own people, we want the military to have the power, strength and resources to help us. Well, as a nation we could fix this problem of the inconvenience of recruiters in our neighborhoods by requiring civil service like some other countries do. Instead, we are lucky enough to live in a nation where we are allowed to choice but we have created a culture where it is okay to serveas long as someone else is doing it.

We have several holidays honoring veterans and those who have gone before us in service, but I think the better way to honor them is to find some way to serve

I think more people should find some way to provide some level of civil service in this country. And, that may mean signing up for the military for some. And anyone who signs up for the guard, reserves or active and thinks they will never be put in harms way is not thinking clearly. And the thing is that these men and women dont get the luxury that civilians do of chosing which action/war they stand behind or dont. If they are given orders, they go, whether they agree or not, because they are making the sacrifice because so many wont even consider it.

Do people get orders than then change, get extended or otherwise changed? Yes, but who hasnt worked in some sort of job where things change. This is the same thing. You sign up to serve the needs of the military and the nation, not your own needs.

As a military wife, I can tell you that it clearly is not all about our needs...and to the poster who said that we knew what we got into, yes we do.....but by our spouses chosing to serve in the face of a widely apathetic nation of people who chose not to, I can complain when my husband is not by my side at night, when I have to turn off the news to avoid additional worry and when the military tells me when and where I will move my family next. But, I think you'll find that most of us dont complain so much because we are proud of what our husbands do.

 

[transparant]

I dont even know if I should even post on this. But I just love the crowd of "not in my backyard" --- people dont like that recruiters come to their twons/neighborhoods/schools. We as a nation dont want it to be our son, daughter or husband making the sacrifice, but then when terrorists hit on our soil, or hurricanes ravage our own people, we want the military to have the power, strength and resources to help us. Well, as a nation we could fix this problem of the inconvenience of recruiters in our neighborhoods by requiring civil service like some other countries do. Instead, we are lucky enough to live in a nation where we are allowed to choice but we have created a culture where it is okay to serveas long as someone else is doing it.

We have several holidays honoring veterans and those who have gone before us in service, but I think the better way to honor them is to find some way to serve

I think more people should find some way to provide some level of civil service in this country. And, that may mean signing up for the military for some. And anyone who signs up for the guard, reserves or active and thinks they will never be put in harms way is not thinking clearly. And the thing is that these men and women dont get the luxury that civilians do of chosing which action/war they stand behind or dont. If they are given orders, they go, whether they agree or not, because they are making the sacrifice because so many wont even consider it.

Do people get orders than then change, get extended or otherwise changed? Yes, but who hasnt worked in some sort of job where things change. This is the same thing. You sign up to serve the needs of the military and the nation, not your own needs.

As a military wife, I can tell you that it clearly is not all about our needs...and to the poster who said that we knew what we got into, yes we do.....but by our spouses chosing to serve in the face of a widely apathetic nation of people who chose not to, I can complain when my husband is not by my side at night, when I have to turn off the news to avoid additional worry and when the military tells me when and where I will move my family next. But, I think you'll find that most of us dont complain so much because we are proud of what our husbands do.

 

[Stitchfans]

.



It is fair and it is right. Not all recruiters lie, and if you were to hear a lie told by a recruiter and tell their CO I'm sure it would be delt with. Heck, alert the principal but frankly the tone of your typing sounds like a tizzy fit by a child

Flame suit on!

No wonder you put your flame suit on. Look at the pot calling the kettle black. How immature to have to attack me personally. Tizzy fit by a child? You are so immature and I won't even go into it. I still stand by what I said.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Always quiet, I hope your great nephew stays safe when he has to go over. My BIL was there for 13 months in the Army reserve.
I also teach HS. Several schools around here have toyed with the idea of banning recruiters. They are surprised when the school tells them that if they ban recruiters, then people from colleges won't be able to come in and speak to the kids either. They can't ban one type of recruiter and not another. Don't know if this is a state rule (Ohio) or what. But at least two schools who would not let recruiters in changed the policy when they found out colleges couldn't come in.
Robin M.

 

[phillybeth]

do you really think they have many other options? Where else are they going to get a roof over their head, food in their stomach and training for a skill?

Not to mention the nice military funeral and a flag for their mom.

 

[Longsx3]

Not to mention the nice military funeral and a flag for their mom.

Thank you, I 'll try hard to remember that while my husband is serving in Iraq!

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Thank you, I 'll try hard to rememeber that while my husband is serving in Iraq!

But, it was your husband's choice to join the military, so therefore you can't complain.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

But, it was your husband's choice to join the military, so therefore you can't complain.

She most certainly IS free to complain! Goodness, her DH has helped earn that freedom.

I made the choice to have kids, but I still complain about them from time to time! And I was lonely and complained when my reservist DH was in Iraq. Complaining is just part of life!

And by the way phillybeth, the majority of troops come home safe. And a good majority of them have positive stories to tell.

I think most of us agree the OP's nephew and great nephew were obviously not thinking right if they thought he would not be deployed. The OP knew he would be!