We tried to warn him................(thick headed family member)

[cardaway]

Some recruiters may do this on purpose but I think in some ways going after the "bad students" is not as evil as you may think. Those kids that are just barely passing high school are not exactly being bombarded with full ride scholarship offers. Many of them will never pursue any type of higher education and will end up working in minimum wage, dead end jobs. The military, for all its faults, can often times be a good thing for some of those kids. Yes, right now there is obviously more physical risk in joining and recruiters should not try to sugar coat the risks but people who are enlisting are doing so of their free will and should always be prepared to see action no matter what their rank, sex, occupation, etc.. If you enlist, during a war or not, you should be prepared to be deployed.

I am also a little shocked that so many of you think the "general public" should not have to be subjected to recruiters? Who exactly do you think should be recruited? Everyone wants the military to be there to protect them but they have a NIMBY-type syndrome, NMK - Not My Kids - syndrome. Let someone else's kid die to protect me but don't you dare have a recruiter talk to my kid. All your kid has to do is to tell them they are not interested - they are not putting a gun to your child's head and forcing them to sign up.

Not evil, just wrong. I agree about the benefits for these kids, but under no circumstances should they be lied to or be treated like they are buying a used car. Since the benefits are so great for these kids, they shouldn't have lie or tell half truths, right?

As for NMK, that goes both ways. So many supposedly supporting the Bush war, but the military needs stop loss because not enough Bush war supporting families are signing up. Yep, goes both ways.

 

[becka]

Not evil, just wrong. I agree aobut the benefits for these kids, but under no circumstances should they be lied to or be treated like they are buying a used car. Since the benefits are so great for these kids, they shouldn't have lie or tell half truths, right?

As for NMK, that goes both ways. So many suposed Bush war supporters, but the military needs stop loss because not enough Bush supporting families are signing up. Yep, goes both ways.

I agree they should not be lied to. Where did I say they should be lied to? Recruiters that lie should be removed from their positions but the fact remains that so many right now do not want their kids exposed to any recruiter and I find that just a little troubling. Don't take my posts to mean that I support unethical recruiting tactics because I don't but I will stand by my position that recruiters can and should have a place in high schools and in other areas where they can reach potential recruits.

Yes the NMK goes both ways. I never said it didn't. There are just as many Bush supporters who do not want their kids exposed to the military either. For all I know they are the greater percentage. It is not right either way. Obviously my kids are still very young and it is not necessarily my highest aspiration to have them in a situation where they are being shot at but at the same time I am not going to discourage a military career if that is what they feel is right for them.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I'm sorry Always Quiet. I know you must be really worried.
The thing is -- these kids that the recruiters are Recruiting -- they are 17 to 20 year old boys. I'm the Mother of two teen boys. I know how the selective hearing conversations go with this age group.

"Hey Mom - do you think I could get a new Sony PSP?"
"I don't know. They are really expensive and we have alot of other bills right now. Maybe you could do some yardwork for the neighbor and you have $100 in your savings account. I might be able to chip in some money - I think you could get one that way."

overheard on the phone that evening

"Hey guess what? Mom's buying me a new Sony PSP this weekend!"
------
My son has a friend whose older brother just completed training. He is some kind of Mechanic. My son also tells me "but they told him he'll never be deployed overseas because they need plenty of mechanics right here."

I don't believe it for a second.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Boy, this thread hit a soft spot for me. I was lied to when I was 18 and joined the army under false assumptions. I got out 3 years later. Stupid me, a few years later my husband wanted to join and I actually talked to the recruiter myself and they lied and told me that I could visit my husband every weekend when he was in basic and I could go to AIT with him. Well, that was a lie too. They also sent my husband in as enlisted when he had his bachelor's degree and was almost done with his masters. They told him he couldn't go in as enlisted. It tooks almost a year to get him commissioned. Everyone we came in contact with couldn't believe what that recruiter did to us.
As a side note, I was sitting in my hotel that I work at on the weekends, and I overheard a group of 3 obvious recruiters talking to the front desk staff about enlisting. They said "You can travel all over the world for free! You can go to Germany, Italy, Korea..." I interrupted and said "Iraq... Afganistan..."
I really have no love for recruiters or most people in the army that choose to live that lifestyle then complain. I have a good friend whose husband is still in the army and currently on his 2nd tour in Iraq. She complains all the time, and I just tell her she chose that. After he got back from Iraq the first time, he reenlisted. What, did he think he wouldn't go again?
They really want to lure you in with promises of free health care and free travel, but most recruiters are just snakes, lying to people to make good numbers so they won't be taken off of recruiter assignment.

 

[cardaway]

Recruiters that lie should be removed from their positions but the fact remains that so many right now do not want their kids exposed to any recruiter and I find that just a little troubling.

I'm usually would agree, but until it gets cleaned up, I have to fall on the side of limiting recruiting access.

Simple fact of the matter is it shouldn't be this way.

 

[hugsquared]

I agree. I think the recruiters should be stopped, then we could just go back to the draft so that no one has a choice. Bet that would make everyone happy. Your kid who is on the fast track to college and knows how to say "no" can now be sent to Iraq becasue no one is out there enlisting the kids voluntarily. How would that work for you?
Or better yet, lets just do away with our entire military and sit back and wait for another Saddam to come in with a Regime change, take over your freedoms and slit your throat the first time you have anything bad to say about the way he does business.
Now that sounds like fun.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Good wishes of safety and a speedy return for him and all.

 

[lyeag]

Boy, this thread hit a soft spot for me. I was lied to when I was 18 and joined the army under false assumptions. I got out 3 years later. Stupid me, a few years later my husband wanted to join and I actually talked to the recruiter myself and they lied and told me that I could visit my husband every weekend when he was in basic and I could go to AIT with him. Well, that was a lie too. They also sent my husband in as enlisted when he had his bachelor's degree and was almost done with his masters. They told him he couldn't go in as enlisted. It tooks almost a year to get him commissioned. Everyone we came in contact with couldn't believe what that recruiter did to us.
As a side note, I was sitting in my hotel that I work at on the weekends, and I overheard a group of 3 obvious recruiters talking to the front desk staff about enlisting. They said "You can travel all over the world for free! You can go to Germany, Italy, Korea..." I interrupted and said "Iraq... Afganistan..."
I really have no love for recruiters or most people in the army that choose to live that lifestyle then complain. I have a good friend whose husband is still in the army and currently on his 2nd tour in Iraq. She complains all the time, and I just tell her she chose that. After he got back from Iraq the first time, he reenlisted. What, did he think he wouldn't go again?
They really want to lure you in with promises of free health care and free travel, but most recruiters are just snakes, lying to people to make good numbers so they won't be taken off of recruiter assignment.

What made you think you could see your husband during basic? You were in basic yourself. Did you ever see that happen? If you fell for something so obviously false, when you had been in the military...


Oh yeah...recruiter assingment is a "cushy" job? Believe me it involves very long hours, 6 or 7 days a week. Those guys get very little family time. Yeah, it's their job to sell the military. It's the potential recruit's job to do their homework. Anyone who joins up signs up of their own free will.

As for what happened to your husband, he didn't have to sign up if he didn't want to be enlisted. He could have gone to see a different recruiter to what they offered. He could have said sign me up when you can put me in OBC. In the end it was all your choice.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

What made you think you could see your husband during basic? You were in basic yourself. Did you ever see that happen? If you fell for something so obviously false, when you had been in the military...

Yeah, well when an E-7 is telling you right to your face that things have changed and that you can see your spouse on the weekends, you take him for his word, since they are suppose to be NCO (or lack there of )

 

[cardaway]

Yeah, it's their job to sell the military. It's the potential recruit's job to do their homework. Anyone who joins up signs up of their own free will.

IMO that mind set is the root cause of the problem. No reason recruiting should be anything but a straight forward discussion.

That mind set has got us to the point where it would be best to have a lawyer present. We should be able to trust the people involved.

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Oh yeah...recruiter assingment is a "cushy" job? Believe me it involves very long hours, 6 or 7 days a week. Those guys get very little family time. Yeah, it's their job to sell the military. It's the potential recruit's job to do their homework. Anyone who joins up signs up of their own free will.

I bet those poor kids those recruiters lie to and end up getting sent to Iraq have even less time with their families than the poor overworked recruiter. The only reason they have to work so hard nowadays is because people are smart to what's going on and they have to work harder to make their numbers.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

What makes me upset are people who sign up during times of war and actually think it is reasonable to say, "Oh, I want to join, but I don't want to actually be put in danger." Excuse me? You want the pay, the education benefits, the travel, but you think you shouldn't have to do what others have done and are doing? Personally, if someone is so blind that they think they can join the military and not expect to be sent to Iraq, they shouldn't be joining in the first place. Get a grip. Oh... they lied to me boohoo. You lied to yourself as well. flame away

Amen to this!
Entire Reserve and Guard units are being trained to do things they are not. Field Artillery units are becoming MP's for instance. Air Force Security Police are doing Army MP jobs in Iraq. My DH ran into many Army and Air Force units that were cross trained and doing a good job at it too. I think the AF is seeing a larger role now as the army units are maxing out their time. I find it hard to believe anyone would join and think they are immune to deployments.

Hope your relative has a safe tour! We actually know a few officers and enlisted who have volunteered to stay on in Iraq, it is not always as bad as portrayed by the media. DH actually enjoyed his job, he just missed us terribly.

 

[hugsquared]

IMO that mind set is the root cause of the problem. No reason recruiting should be anything but a straight forward discussion.

That mind set has got us to the point where it would be best to have a lawyer present. We should be able to trust the people involved.

You know, I have a civilian job and the market for the line of work I'm in is viscious. They will promise you the world if you "just choose them". Once you get the human resources part of it, you get a little dose of reality. So the "glamourization" of any job happens everywhere. I'm still asking if the draft would be a better solution for any of you?

 

[lyeag]

That's right, it's all the mean old recruiter's fault.


I firmly believe not all recruiters lie. However, I do believe there are a few bad apples and they do get called on it. When recruits arrive at boot camp, they have the opportunity to complain if they think they were lied to. How do I know? My husband was a battery commander for an army boot camp battery for a year, and an XO of one for a year before that. He even straightened out a few problems for a few guys.

Having said that, you are crazy if you go in to a recruiter's office and don't ask for proof of what they are telling you. If you are going to sign 4 years of your life away, you better make sure you know what you are doing. I went through Navy boot camp myself. I know that recruiters try to sell the military. They tried to tell me I didn't need it in my contract that I would have a school after basic. I made sure they put it in writing, and that my college hours were documented and what rank I would be after basic.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Sorry, but ANYONE going into any branch of the military should expect to go to war. That is a fact of life.

The military was not created to train people to work with computers, learn to fly, etc, etc.

The military's sole purpose for being created was to have people fight to protect this country. Period.

And every parent and educator should let kids know that is it's sole purpose. To fight.

I feel sorry for no one who joins the military and thinks they won't be using weapons. You join the military, you are essentially giving away your life for your country. Period.

 

[Sleepy]

My son now carries a knife with him for protection. He's not supposed to, but has decided his safety is more important than getting into trouble for having it.

Being threatened, spat on and cursed at. Can you explain exactly when he is experiencing these things? Is it while at peoples houses? Is he too pushy? Does he only carry the knife and feel threatened only after work hours? Is he in a bad part of town to feel a warzone would be safer? Sorry, but I just don't understand how something could escalate to the point he would feel he needs to go against the UCMJ and place others lives in danger (including his own) by carrying a knife. You say you don't want everyone to think that a few lying recruiters means all do it, yet you admit your son carries a knife. What does THAT make the majority think of recruiters?

 

[cardaway]

You know, I have a civilian job and the market for the line of work I'm in is viscious. They will promise you the world if you "just choose them". Once you get the human resources part of it, you get a little dose of reality. So the "glamourization" of any job happens everywhere. I'm still asking if the draft would be a better solution for any of you?

That's one of the most illogical comparisons I've ever seen. No civilian job compares to the situation you put yourself if when you sign military papers.

Given that, it's flat out sick that we can't trust our own citizens.

 

[always quiet]

I never intended for this thread to become such a heated debate....I never doubted, for even one second, that my great nephew would be sent to Iraq. I'm not even going to try and guess what the recruiter said to him. I was venting frustration at my nephew (the 'dad', if you will). Not only is he a grown man (not an 18 yr old kid fresh out of high school...he had the recruiters at his high school in Kodiak AK), but he is a police officer for crying out loud! He even met with the recruiter!! The rest of the family, down here on the "mainland" all said it can't be so. I think if the recruiter convinced my 18 yr old great nephew he wouldn't be sent...could spend all his time taking courses...shame on the recruiter. If the recruiter told my adult nephew not to worry about his son...........shame on my nephew!!!

 

[Sleepy]

Don't you just hate it when someone won't listen to good advice they are receiving from all quarters, do their own thing instead, and then are surprised when it turns out badly?

Yeah, like my cousin. We all came from a family of military. His father, my father, 3 of our uncles and my brother...oh, and my husband. When my cousin went to the recruiter for the army, the recruiter promised him that if he got married (which he was about to do), the military would give his wife her own check each month We all tried to tell him it would not work out that way. He kept insisting the recruiter told him this and that it would be a very large check each month. I even told him I was a military wife and did not get my own check from the military. He would not listen. I told him to get it in writing and if not, just wait and see She never did get those checks. Why do some people listen to a stranger trying to make a quota rather than family members who live military life everyday and would not lie to them? My husband was even a recruiter and tried to warn him.

 

[Longsx3]

As a military spouse of an Active Duty member who is currently serving in Iraq, I am really surprised at how recruiters are perceived by the general public.

A recruiters job is to sell the Military and that is what they do...hopefully without lying. I do not believe it is right for a recuiter to lie to a recuit but I think a fair amount of time when parents accuse recuiters of lying it was selective hearing by the teenager.

I agree with the poster who said why would anyone believe that they would not be sent to Iraq??...especially in the Army. That is like saying sure you can join the Navy and never go out to sea.

Before Dh joined the AF we shopped the recuiters and we too were encouraged to have DH join the Army enlisted rather than as an officer and we left! We knew the value of his degree and we knew what our goals were....no one forcerd us to stay and enlist. We walked two doors down to the AF recuiter and DH was commisioned less than a yr later.

As for these poor high school students who don't know any better, btw I work in a High School, do you really think they have many other options? Where else are they going to get a roof over their head, food in their stomach and training for a skill? Do you think these students are being conned into to joining the military instead of going to college, I doubt it. Most need the military as much as the Military needs them. Kids join the military mainly for 3 reasons, Money...they are not financially prepared for College. Lack of Motivation...these kids are not motivated enough to get out there and do what it takes to get through college and finally there are the kids who just are not bright enough all around to make it thru college..they need a training system like the Military has...this is your job and now you will learn your job...not english lit, biology, math & art appreciation and then how to be an xray tech. Where else would you like to see these kids get a job skill?

Finally, I wonder where the parents, who so resent the recuiter who lied to their baby boy or girl, were during the whole recuiting process? The recuitment process doesn't happen overnight.


Sorry for the length of this post, this is just a very touchy subject for me.