We need a Bachelorette thread!

[kimmar067]

...Nick was on Good Morning America this morning....WHAT??!?!??! Can you say 'fame *****'???

 

[mnrose]

Ohhhh, yes, you guys are right about Nick and Josh....
From point one, Nick was so obsessive... OMG!!!
Hated everything about Nick from point one.
Did not see what ANY woman would see in him.

And, as for Josh..
Well, hey, he is who he is, that is just obvious.

BUT, to those of us who are seeing things so differently....
If you are so sure that Andi knew all along that it was Josh, then that even more proves my viewpoint.... Who is just 'so in love with THE ONE', and sleeps with another guy, the night before?????

You really can't tell anything on these shows, because they are all scripted drama, and NOT 'reality'. But I feel like me and this other poster are the ones who are closer to being on the right track.

Sorry, but I still think that there is a lot more to this.
Sure, everybody know that Josh was a biggie right from the beginning.
Nobody is denying that.... But....

And nobody can change my mind that any person, who, under any circumstances, would do what Andi did, deserves any negative name that applies.

Completely agree. I know we all "modern" and everything, and that women are entitled to have fun and do things just like men, but I'm sorry, people who sleep with different people every night of the week (whether male or female) deserve all kinds of bad names. Really. I may be old fashioned, but sex means something! Sleeping with everyone in sight cheapens it.

Andi can't have it both ways. Either she "loved" Josh from the beginning and knew he was "the" one (in which case, sleeping with Nick was just bizarre) OR she was confused until the very end (in which case, Nick deserved to have a longer conversation than she gave him about what happened).

And, there have been candidates on this show who were classy about the "fantasy" suites and didn't use it as an excuse to sleep with multiple people. Sean was the most recent one.

 

[Wishing on a star]

... Andi can't have it both ways. Either she "loved" Josh from the beginning and knew he was "the" one (in which case, sleeping with Nick was just bizarre) OR she was confused until the very end (in which case, Nick deserved to have a longer conversation than she gave him about what happened).

And, there have been candidates on this show who were classy about the "fantasy" suites and didn't use it as an excuse to sleep with multiple people. Sean was the most recent one.

Amen Sistah!!!!!

But, if we are to admit the truth here.... The whole show, the whole franchise, with very, very, very, few exceptions, is nothing more than one sick incestuous family of fame-wh*****.

But, OMG, am I admittig that have actually watched this stuff!!!

 

[mnrose]

Amen Sistah!!!!!

But, if we are to admit the truth here.... The whole show, the whole franchise, with very, very, very, few exceptions, is nothing more than one sick incestuous family of fame-wh*****.

But, OMG, am I admittig that have actually watched this stuff!!!

I watch it as a comedy show. That is what it is, right? I also read the spoilers on "that" spoiler site. So, I've known for months what the outcome would be. I find that knowing the spoilers makes it easier to spot the producer manipulation. Since the outcome has been widely known since BEFORE the first show aired (if you wanted to know) it was obvious to me that the producers were creating "fake" drama from the beginning with Josh when there likely was very very little. Remember, when there is a date, it is all day and they edit down hours and hours of tape into 10-15 minutes TOPS. The ITM interviews (in the moment) interviews are done, in many cases, WELL after the fact....something that it easy to see by the differing backgrounds, outfits and hairstyles of the lead. So, the producers can cleverly edit to tell any story they want.

It is clear to me that they wanted to (1) deflect attention from Josh as her "pick" from nearly the beginning and (2) portray Nick as the "bad guy" of the house. Let's face it. If someone followed you or I around for nearly 24 hours of every day for 9 weeks, they could make us look almost any way they want.

Anyway, I find the whole show absurd...but absurdly funny. That's why I watch.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well said....

 

[Imzadi]

The same one!!! Look at them!!!

I should maybe note I am a counselor and pay tons of attention to facial expressions and body language. Words are cheap.

Interesting, then what did you about when Nick had his hand up, almost over his mouth at times when he was sitting there talking to Andi? That's usually a classic "tell" that someone is lying.

 

[DWGal210]

I think you have to ask the question: Did Nick expressly ask Andi NOT to spend the night with Josh, or speak with her in private about only being with him? Unless he had a conversation with her and shared his feelings, he can't expect her to be a mind reader and just KNOW what would upset him. If he knows he is the kind of person to be hurt by her being with Josh as well, he should have said to her, "I will go to the FS suite only if I am the only one" or something like that.

I am guessing such a conversation never happened, otherwise he would have said, "But you told me in the FS that I was the only one...." something like that. If they had a conversation about expectations, he would have used that as evidence when pleading his case.

I mean of course, hindsight is 20/20 and we know this guy isn't the most emotionally healthy person on the planet. If you are STILL an emotional mess after months have passed since taping ended, and you've tried tracking this woman down multiple times (including when she was on vacation in Mexico) when her feelings were clear, that is a pretty giant warning sign. This isn't as if they dated exclusively; he was on a DATING SHOW where he was one of 20-odd guys. In truth, he probably spent less than 24 hours total alone with her over the course of those weeks. To have that kind of emotional reaction after having known someone that little is not good.

Could she have been nicer / better to him / more communicative in breaking it off? Sure, you could argue that but I still hold that Nick is an emotionally immature man and if it wasn't the FS issue, it would have been something else.

And I think this is different from Sean or Emily, as they didn't do the whole Fantasy Suite action with anyone - it was their choice not to do it altogether so that's not the same thing as what we have here.

If her being with Josh was such a gut-wrencher for Nick, his only choices were to tell her his feelings about intimacy and hope she respected those, or to decline to go in the Fantasy Suite with her.

 

[DWGal210]

Also - Nick never really talked to Andi all that much, at least what as shown on camera. There were a few times (like when they were on that beach together) where she tried to engage him in conversation about his past engagement and he really said nothing at all, just skirted around the issue. Even at ATFR, when Chris Harrison gave him the floor to talk to Andi, he basically said, "Did you read the letter? That's how I feel." Um buddy, we don't have that letter so you're going to have to verbalize your feelings a touch better.

He doesn't seem to be able to concisely explain his feelings, thoughts, ideas, etc. In light of that - - I find it VERY hard to believe that at some point, he had a heart-to-heart with Andi about his feelings regarding physical intimacy and clearly conveyed to her what would upset him.

You can't expect someone to magically know what you're thinking and feeling unless you TELL THEM.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay, I'll stay in the conversation here!

First I will mention, and remind everyone, that ANDI is no stranger to Fantasy Suite Drama..... Remember, what happened with her and Juan Pablo... She went into the Fantasy Suite still, in some crazy way, still holding out the possibility of a relationship with Juan Pablo, but had completely changed her mind and could not wait to get out of there by dawn..... OMG!!!!! Having said that... she should have been well prepared to handle the Fantasy Suite without doing the dirty deed with the WRONG guy. Or, was this some sick, strange, like freudian way of her 'repeating' that horrid incident, with her being the one in control???? OMG. Bottom line, she did what she did, and she has earned any name that one assigns to such behavior.

1. Nick and his hand over his mouth.... I did notice that, NO, it was not lying.... Andi was not denying, or saying, 'Excuse me... but that is not how I remember that evening....' I a quite sure that what the man was saying was very true. (Which DOES make her a ********) She was only like, "to mention what happened in private....."

And it was really not something that seemed like a cover-up for lying. He only did it when in the throws of being very upset and stressed... I could SWEAR what I as seeing was a (very immature) man who has been a nail-biter. I could swear he was trying to not be caught on camera biting his nails.

2. No, we would not see Nick asking her to NOT sleep with Josh. Not on camera.... He did try to bring up the subject of exclusiveness a couple of times. But, as mentioned, was not that 'direct'. He was saying that he was not sure about the fantasy suite and proposal, unless he KNEW.... I'll bet he was going to actually say this very, very, specifically when he had the chance to do so off camera, that night in the Fantasy Suite... But, with Andi, like outright LYING and saying, like, "It's okay... You'll be fine..." OMG!!!!! If that isn't some kind of warped de-ja-voux reversal in flashback..... (eeeeeees okay!!!! eeeeeeees okay!!!!!)

He would have to be assuming, after all of her words and actions, that this should be a NON-concern.... It has been often said that one has to just let-go and not worry and discuss this issue.... The inappropriateness of such was something that was also covered with Juan Pablo on the last season. More weird warped de-ja-voux.

3. YES, the man is like a 12 year old who simply can not organize and verbalize any direct more complex thought. OMG, I was thinking that about him from the very beginning.... Andi knew this quite clearly, and even would say like, "Your rambling again...." And once when he kind of said... 'Sorry', I remember her, very specifically saying "Ohhh, that's okay, like, I love it when you ramble....."

In fact, as a district attorney who's very very strong point is being able to 'argue' and 'verbalize' things in ways that will be more effective than the opponents/criminals.... I am quite sure that she used her knowledge of Nick's weakness in this area to her own advantage.

Bottom line is..... He is not lying....
And, yes, She is what she is....

 

[lucas]

Okay, I'll stay in the conversation here!

First I will mention, and remind everyone, that ANDI is no stranger to Fantasy Suite Drama..... Remember, what happened with her and Juan Pablo... She went into the Fantasy Suite still, in some crazy way, still holding out the possibility of a relationship with Juan Pablo, but had completely changed her mind and could not wait to get out of there by dawn..... OMG!!!!! Having said that... she should have been well prepared to handle the Fantasy Suite without doing the dirty deed with the WRONG guy. Or, was this some sick, strange, like freudian way of her 'repeating' that horrid incident, with her being the one in control???? OMG. Bottom line, she did what she did, and she has earned any name that one assigns to such behavior.

1. Nick and his hand over his mouth.... I did notice that, NO, it was not lying.... Andi was not denying, or saying, 'Excuse me... but that is not how I remember that evening....' I a quite sure that what the man was saying was very true. (Which DOES make her a ********) She was only like, "to mention what happened in private....."

And it was really not something that seemed like a cover-up for lying. He only did it when in the throws of being very upset and stressed... I could SWEAR what I as seeing was a (very immature) man who has been a nail-biter. I could swear he was trying to not be caught on camera biting his nails.

2. No, we would not see Nick asking her to NOT sleep with Josh. Not on camera.... He did try to bring up the subject of exclusiveness a couple of times. But, as mentioned, was not that 'direct'. He was saying that he was not sure about the fantasy suite and proposal, unless he KNEW.... I'll bet he was going to actually say this very, very, specifically when he had the chance to do so off camera, that night in the Fantasy Suite... But, with Andi, like outright LYING and saying, like, "It's okay... You'll be fine..." OMG!!!!! If that isn't some kind of warped de-ja-voux reversal in flashback..... (eeeeeees okay!!!! eeeeeeees okay!!!!!)

He would have to be assuming, after all of her words and actions, that this should be a NON-concern.... It has been often said that one has to just let-go and not worry and discuss this issue.... The inappropriateness of such was something that was also covered with Juan Pablo on the last season. More weird warped de-ja-voux.

3. YES, the man is like a 12 year old who simply can not organize and verbalize any direct more complex thought. OMG, I was thinking that about him from the very beginning.... Andi knew this quite clearly, and even would say like, "Your rambling again...." And once when he kind of said... 'Sorry', I remember her, very specifically saying "Ohhh, that's okay, like, I love it when you ramble....."

In fact, as a district attorney who's very very strong point is being able to 'argue' and 'verbalize' things in ways that will be more effective than the opponents/criminals.... I am quite sure that she used her knowledge of Nick's weakness in this area to her own advantage.

Bottom line is..... He is not lying....
And, yes, She is what she is....

Yep, and she will never be able to live it down.

 

[emer95]

Coming way too late to the party, but here's the letter!

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/nick-vialls-emotional-letter-to-bachelorette-andi-dorfman-revealed-2014297

Never mind, I can't get the link to work. It's on Us Weekly.

 

[emer95]

Or maybe the link does work. Doh!

 

[asta]

I find it hard to give the moral high ground to any of the men or women who appear on this show. The men and women know what the show is about and share equally in the sleaze factor. It seems easy for some of you to attack Andi for being promiscuous and feel sorry for Nick. If they had sex in the FS, I don't think Andi did it alone.

I don't care if you have moral outrage or not but you need to hurl equal amounts of that outrage at Nick (or any of the other guys) who would agree to 'make love' with someone whom they do not have a committed relationship.

 

[DWGal210]

I find it hard to give the moral high ground to any of the men or women who appear on this show. The men and women know what the show is about and share equally in the sleaze factor. It seems easy for some of you to attack Andi for being promiscuous and feel sorry for Nick. If they had sex in the FS, I don't think Andi did it alone.

I don't care if you have moral outrage or not but you need to hurl equal amounts of that outrage at Nick (or any of the other guys) who would agree to 'make love' with someone whom they do not have a committed relationship.

Yep! It takes two to tango, so to speak.

 

[mgsquared]

Interesting, then what did you about when Nick had his hand up, almost over his mouth at times when he was sitting there talking to Andi? That's usually a classic "tell" that someone is lying.

Nick seemed so socially awkward in general and had all kinds of nervous movements like all the shrugs. He is just not the kind of guy that will ever come across well on TV. He is too socially awkward. I get what you are referring to but his eyes seemed so sincere. They would light up when he talked about Andi.

 

[mnrose]

I find it hard to give the moral high ground to any of the men or women who appear on this show. The men and women know what the show is about and share equally in the sleaze factor. It seems easy for some of you to attack Andi for being promiscuous and feel sorry for Nick. If they had sex in the FS, I don't think Andi did it alone.

I don't care if you have moral outrage or not but you need to hurl equal amounts of that outrage at Nick (or any of the other guys) who would agree to 'make love' with someone whom they do not have a committed relationship.

The difference is that during the course of that week, Nick slept ONLY with Andi. Andi turned around and the very next night, slept with Josh. I see a huge difference. Then, within the week, was "engaged" to Josh. It would be like a woman sleeping with the stripper during her bachelorette party, and I would not look with favor on that either.

Now, when it's the Bachelor's turn (Juan PaBLOW being the most recent), I find the conduct (sleeping with multiple women on consecutive nights) to be equally reprehensible.

 

[DWGal210]

The difference is that during the course of that week, Nick slept ONLY with Andi. Andi turned around and the very next night, slept with Josh. I see a huge difference. Then, within the week, was "engaged" to Josh. It would be like a woman sleeping with the stripper during her bachelorette party, and I would not look with favor on that either.

Now, when it's the Bachelor's turn (Juan PaBLOW being the most recent), I find the conduct (sleeping with multiple women on consecutive nights) to be equally reprehensible.

In your example, with a bachelorette party and the stripper, there is an expectation of monogamy because the person is already committed to their fiance. There was ZERO monogamy going on here, until she picked one of them. Until that final rose was pinned on Josh, they were all free agents, so to speak.

Honestly, he would have to be "not the sharpest tack in the drawer" NOT to realize what the Fantasy Suite entailed, and not to assume that Andi would spend the night with Josh, too.

For the record, I agree with you in that I personally think the FS has a HUGE icky factor. You wouldn't catch me doing that (being the Bachelorette or a contestant on the Bachelor) in a million years. But I would never voluntarily, of my own free will, sign up for that show - like Nick did.

 

[mnrose]

You're right. They all knew the score. I guess I don't get Andi's faux outrage over being "outed" though....since they all knew this was about getting as much sex from whomever. LOL!

I'd never be a contestant, and would sincerely hope that neither of my children would ever opt to be on such a show. Of course, I hardly fit their demographic profile of desirable contestants.

 

[iheartdisney]

Coming way too late to the party, but here's the letter!

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/nick-vialls-emotional-letter-to-bachelorette-andi-dorfman-revealed-2014297

Never mind, I can't get the link to work. It's on Us Weekly.

OK... No way he wrote that letter! He couldn't form a complete sentence. I call BS on the part of ABC!

As I avoid spoilers, now that I know about the phone call caught on his way home I fully believe that the "letter" and the "attempts for contact" were nothing more than a ploy by ABC to try and make Andi pull a "Full Mesnick". Or at least make the viewing public think she might.

I find it VERY hard to believe that Nick was so VERY distraught on Monday night but is fine by Wednesday on ET. Nick is a very talented salesman like the men said all along!

 

[DWGal210]

You're right. They all knew the score. I guess I don't get Andi's faux outrage over being "outed" though....since they all knew this was about getting as much sex from whomever. LOL!

I'd never be a contestant, and would sincerely hope that neither of my children would ever opt to be on such a show. Of course, I hardly fit their demographic profile of desirable contestants.

I'm with you. I'm definitely not contestant material but I have to say, even if I were, the thought of throwing myself at some guy (along with 20 other women), so he "picks me", makes my skin crawl. Ewwww.