"We don't value food because it isn't expensive enough."

[MillauFr]

Lets compare to 1950

Yes food is relatively cheaper than it was a generation or two ago. This probably due to technology and the industrialization of farms and food processing. Some are ok with this while others are horrified.

 

[ilovemk76]

Another interesting comparison of how the average American family spent their income.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ears-in-the-life-of-the-family-budget/255475/

1900:
Food, housing, apparel and healthcare - 85%
Entertainment and other - 15%

1950:
Food, housing, apparel and healthcare - 75%
Entertainment and other - 25%

2003:
Food, housing, apparel and healthcare - 56%
Entertainment and other - 44%



Feed went from 43% (1900) to 30% (1950) and to 13% (2003).


Family size has gotten smaller, so that would account for the decrease in the total spent on food but not for housing (gotten larger), apparel (own more per person) and healthcare (technology).

We saved more back then out of a smaller "other".


This sums it up "I have two answers: The first answer is housing and cars. Half of that orange "other" slice is transportation costs: mostly cars, gas, and public transit. A century ago, if you recall, 80% of families were renters and nobody owned a car. Today, more than 60% of families are home owners, and practically everybody owns a car.* "

 

[tvguy]

I have seen America's obesity problem blamed frequently on that fact that our country produces calories cheaply. And obesity is a bigger problem for the poor. Now, that isn't healthy food, but food to keep you alive.

Sort of like the whole GMO debate. Clearly such food should be labeled so people can make an informed choice, and I cannot dispute that GMO found could cause health issues for people decades down the road, but as one scientist put it, in some parts of the world GMO food is keeping people with days left to live alive for years. Nothing is simple.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Food is only cheap if you have a surplus of money coming in every month. Families that struggle to get by would hardly call food cheap, they don't have enough money for it as-is!

Right.

I have seen America's obesity problem blamed frequently on that fact that our country produces calories cheaply. And obesity is a bigger problem for the poor. Now, that isn't healthy food, but food to keep you alive.

Sort of like the whole GMO debate. Clearly such food should be labeled so people can make an informed choice, and I cannot dispute that GMO found could cause health issues for people decades down the road, but as one scientist put it, in some parts of the world GMO food is keeping people with days left to live alive for years. Nothing is simple.

Right.

-------

In isolation, I suppose food does look relatively cheap. But our dollars aren't working in isolation. To put it in perspective the article below highlights rent and utilities in 20 cities that has exceeded the affordability index of 30% of a household's income.

You have less dollars, yeah food is going to be more expensive. Not to mention food prices are rising and the quantity per unit is shrinking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/b...30-affordability-ratio-unattainable.html?_r=0

 

[MillauFr]

Ditto. The issue is very complicated and there are no easy answers.

 

[jsmith]

Im intrugied by the reactions to this article-mostly because the majority of the posters on this thread are Americans yet the article is about an organic farmer in Great Britan. She is more expressing that no one values the effort put into food production by farmers-because the cost is so low to the consumer. Because the cost is low the return to the farmer is-i.e we dont appreciate her. Most of you saw it as some kind of unfair statement but the reality is she's right-because processed junk, mass production and long range transport makes things cheap we don't pay alot for food-i think the PP statistics are pretty enlightening on that front. Further her implication is that we value our enviroment so little that we will waste things that are produced at the cost of the enviroment-i think she has a point with that as well.

 

[ellone]

Sort of like the whole GMO debate. Clearly such food should be labeled so people can make an informed choice, and I cannot dispute that GMO found could cause health issues for people decades down the road, but as one scientist put it, in some parts of the world GMO food is keeping people with days left to live alive for years. Nothing is simple.

Don't fall for the "GMO food feeds the word" because it doesn't. GMO foods actually need more inputs to produce than conventional. Monsanto and the like don't give the seeds away for free and they sure as heck don't give Round-Up away for free. If a farmer uses non-GMO seeds they can used seeds that they got from their crops for free next planting time. Not so for GMO seeds - the farmer has to pay Monsanto for the privilege of using those seeds. And as for Round-Up (aka glyphosate) they are using more and more of it because the weeds it used to kill are now Super-Weeds and not affected by it. And yes Round-Up ends up in GMO foods. You can't wash it off - think about it human skin is permeable and absorbs things, so too is plant skin so it absorbs that Round-Up. Glyphosate actually ends up in human breastmilk so babies are exposed to it from day 1 (obviously if the baby drinks formula they get glyphosate since they use GMOs in making that). Even eating organic doesn't completely limit your exposure to glyphosate since it is found in 75% of air & water samples.

And many countries want nothing to do with GMOs - heck Haiti burned the GMO seeds the US sent as aid.


And we are already feeling the effects of GMOs in our health. Graphs show the spikes in many chronic diseases since their introduction into our food.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Im intrugied by the reactions to this article-mostly because the majority of the posters on this thread are Americans yet the article is about an organic farmer in Great Britan. She is more expressing that no one values the effort put into food production by farmers-because the cost is so low to the consumer. Because the cost is low the return to the farmer is-i.e we dont appreciate her. Most of you saw it as some kind of unfair statement but the reality is she's right-because processed junk, mass production and long range transport makes things cheap we don't pay alot for food-i think the PP statistics are pretty enlightening on that front. Further her implication is that we value our enviroment so little that we will waste things that are produced at the cost of the enviroment-i think she has a point with that as well.

I think the reactions are intriguing as well. There are a lot of different ways to look at the situation. None of them are wrong IMO. It's like a rubix cube. Different perspectives, different realities.

While the farmer is in GB, I got the impression she was referring to a bigger picture.

There are jobs that are not paid well but are needed and appreciated (some more than others). Some of the rewards are intrinsic. Not everyone goes into a line of work to get rich. Some choose a route because they love it. I think there is a lot to be said for that at least in my book.

I would be interested to know what price points she would set to make her feel appreciated.

 

[crisi]

Buying groceries for a home or restaurant is not an exact science. It's all a guesstimate. I suppose we could buy much less and use what we have and make more frequent trips to the grocery. But then we are wasting gas to get to the grocery.

Never been living really on the edge, have you? When your grocery budget is very tight and there isn't a lot of room for movement in the rest of your budget, buying groceries is an exact science. You know that if you invest in a pound of hamburger, that is one meal for four. Add in two potatoes to boil up. A loaf of bread to cover all lunches, a jar of peanut butter - in part because lunchmeat MIGHT go bad and peanut butter can sit in the cupboard all summer. You plan your week carefully - you invest in staples that won't rot - the peanut butter, vegetable oil, pasta and sauce, soup. You don't make more frequent trips to the grocery store - and if at the end of the week you are down to pantry meals - cans of soup, pasta and sauce, that's what you eat.

I vividly remember being poor enough that grocery shopping was an exact science. Where if I didn't eat it, it went into the freezer for soup or jam or banana bread. About a year, right after my first husband left. I only fed myself, thank God - which makes it easier. And thank God for spending some time living with a depression era grandmother who raised five kids on a shoestring (the best dessert in the world is stale cake with warm sweet milk or warm pudding over it).

Food - particularly fruits and vegetables - is best fresh. But frozen peas or beans or broccoli or spinach are almost as good for you as fresh - and having bags in the freezer cuts down on food waste and those extra trips. Milk is another thing - growing up on a relative shoestring - milk gets drunk at meals so you have it. I'm shocked when my kids have friends over that drink milk between meals like I'd drink tap water.

Now there is lots of money and teenagers in our house - and more food waste because you never know who will be home and who will be gone - and because it doesn't matter. But habits die hard - there are bananas in the freezer for bread (or smoothies) and a bag of vegetables for stock. And my kids, who frankly think privation is when I refuse to stop at McDonalds and they need to wait until they get home to eat after a game, have eaten stale cake with warm pudding.

 

[Colleen27]

I think she's dead on. And I don't know about Britain, but in America the issue is further clouded by the fact that what we pay for our food at the grocery store isn't the true cost - that is the cost after government subsidies that are paid out of other funds (taxes) and still hinges on massive externalities like environmental damage, infrastructure costs, etc.

Objectively, food is cheap for most of the developed world. And objectively, Americans waste a lot of it. Everyone here has zeroed in on their grocery bills, but where I see it most clearly is in restaurant portions and practices. A large Coke is the same price as a small and both come with free refills, because corn sweeteners are dirt cheap. All-you-can-eat restaurants are some of the cheapest out there, despite the volume of food that is thrown away every day. Yes, we do waste food in this country because it is cheap enough to be more or less disposable.

Now subjectively speaking, it creates discomfort and upset any time an essential cost goes up. That doesn't mean the previous price was "right" or that the new price is "too high", it just reflects the fact that we resent having to spend more on essentials because it leaves less to spend as we wish.

 

[eliza61]

I was surprised when traveling in Europe their fridges were very small and they went grocery shopping almost daily. Of course people that lived in the city could do that. Our country is more spread out and not as pedestrian.

A lot of variables come into play. But I don't think making food more expensive to decrease waste is the answer.

I do see her point though also.

Remember a few years back OA, when the oil producing countries started raising their prices on barrels of oil? Americans got incensed!! It was like, "how dare I not be able to buy gasoline at the price I want".

I think we do have a very real "disconnect" from how we get our food and what we pay.
I remember getting into an argument (I mean a real argument) over the price of bananas. It was Feb in NJ and the women was complaining because the bananas were 2.50 a pound. Of course Noisy Nelly me comes in and asks her "do you know how we get bananas in Jersey in February? LOL.

I love bananas but I tend to eat them on cereal. I take an whole banana cut half of it on the cereal and then throw out the rest. Would I do that if those bananas came in at 5 bucks a pound?

Some one mention subsidies. think of milk, milk prices are kept artificially low in order to ensure everyone can get what we call "staples". I can't tell you how many times I yelled at my kids because they eat a bowl of cereal, fill the cereal with milk then leave 1/2 a freaking bowl full of milk to go down the drain.

would I allow that if that milk was now the true cost?

I do think in America we have a mental correlation between price and value.

You know I have a love affair with Coach and designer bags. I treat them waaaay better than the bags I get at marshalls for 19.99. I make sure they go back in their dust ruffle, they never sit on the ground or get flung on the couch or the back of a chair.

My house is extremely wasteful with food. I just threw out a pot of pasta and sauce that was left over from chicken parm I made last week. Part of it is that unfortunately I'm still cooking like there was 4 people in the house nad we are sitting down for dinner, the other part of it is I still think "more is better".

But like Crisi, I've been blessed that I've never been on the "edge" or close to not being able to feed my kids. I routinely go grocery shopping with a list and a budget and then spend 10%-15% more on stuff that wasn't on the list or budgeted. My kids think not having 4 different drink offerings is deprevation

 

[tvguy]

Don't fall for the "GMO food feeds the word" because it doesn't. GMO foods actually need more inputs to produce than conventional. Monsanto and the like don't give the seeds away for free and they sure as heck don't give Round-Up away for free. If a farmer uses non-GMO seeds they can used seeds that they got from their crops for free next planting time. Not so for GMO seeds - the farmer has to pay Monsanto for the privilege of using those seeds. And as for Round-Up (aka glyphosate) they are using more and more of it because the weeds it used to kill are now Super-Weeds and not affected by it. And yes Round-Up ends up in GMO foods. You can't wash it off - think about it human skin is permeable and absorbs things, so too is plant skin so it absorbs that Round-Up. Glyphosate actually ends up in human breastmilk so babies are exposed to it from day 1 (obviously if the baby drinks formula they get glyphosate since they use GMOs in making that). Even eating organic doesn't completely limit your exposure to glyphosate since it is found in 75% of air & water samples.

And many countries want nothing to do with GMOs - heck Haiti burned the GMO seeds the US sent as aid.


And we are already feeling the effects of GMOs in our health. Graphs show the spikes in many chronic diseases since their introduction into our food.

Like I said, it isn't that simple.

Yes, there are spikes in chronic diseases, but were are living longer.

 

[polineedyan]

Go dumptser dive and Aldi and you'll see how much food is 'appreciated.'

 

[ellone]

Like I said, it isn't that simple. Yes, there are spikes in chronic diseases, but were are living longer.

The people who are living longer weren't exposed to GMOs their whole lives. It'll be interesting to see how long children born in the past 20 years will live. I truly think the big issue is the chemicals that are used on GMOs (but of course since GMO corn produces its own toxin it is considered a pesticide).

I for one remember it being a rarity to hear of a classmate having allergies. Now when I drop my daughter off at day camp I am warned of no peanuts because kids have severe allergies. We are doing something wrong if we go from rare allergies to the commonality of them within one generation.

 

[SEA333]

I think she's dead on. And I don't know about Britain, but in America the issue is further clouded by the fact that what we pay for our food at the grocery store isn't the true cost - that is the cost after government subsidies that are paid out of other funds (taxes) and still hinges on massive externalities like environmental damage, infrastructure costs, etc.

Objectively, food is cheap for most of the developed world. And objectively, Americans waste a lot of it. Everyone here has zeroed in on their grocery bills, but where I see it most clearly is in restaurant portions and practices. A large Coke is the same price as a small and both come with free refills, because corn sweeteners are dirt cheap. All-you-can-eat restaurants are some of the cheapest out there, despite the volume of food that is thrown away every day. Yes, we do waste food in this country because it is cheap enough to be more or less disposable.

Now subjectively speaking, it creates discomfort and upset any time an essential cost goes up. That doesn't mean the previous price was "right" or that the new price is "too high", it just reflects the fact that we resent having to spend more on essentials because it leaves less to spend as we wish.

I am not disagreeing with you or crisi...both of you had great posts. But I can't help but think about my own family and how I am already uncomfortable with food prices and resent that a gallon of milk was $2.19 at Target and is now up to $3.29...and this is the market pantey brand AND I have always, like crisi, only allowed milk to be consumed at meals, and sometimes not even then...."save the milk for breakfast!!" Is something my kids hear all the time.? I have to admit that I panic a little, in a symbolic sense, thinking that prices are still rising like crazy when my grocery budget is already stretched for 5 people and we already buy generic, ration the milk, and make a whole chicken every weekend so that we can eat it for one meal, harvest the rest for chicken tacos for the next night, and boil the carcass for soup the night after. I have a hard time justifying the cost of roasts and never buy steak. I've upped my grocery budget by over $50 week in the few past years thinking it was because my kids were getting older, but really, that $$ has been absorbed into the higher costs of food and I really don't get more groceries. We do throw some stuff out frm time to time, but I really am not wasteful...I do plan my meals almost to a science, we eat what's on sale that week, and if 5 of us are eating, I make 5 pork chops. We rarely have leftovers, and since I portion our food out before storing in the freezer, if an unexpected guest comes its hard to figure out how to feed the extra person without breaking open another whole ziplock bag full of meat (that was meant for another meal). My kids have always been served small portions first, then can ask for more instead of the other way around and me throwing tons of food away. Nothing drives me crazy more than when kids visit, parents pile plates high with food, kid takes two bites, and the rest goes into the trash. I cannot help but think about how that plate of food could have fed two of my kids and now its garbage.

So, in my case, food increases do affect us. And we make very close to 6 figures...maybe even over in some years. It's not just a resentment that I can't buy a new purse, because I don't do that, either. But we live in a very high cost of living area, and our mortage and taxes are outrageous. A lot of our money goes to living costs in this area.

 

[tvguy]

The people who are living longer weren't exposed to GMOs their whole lives. It'll be interesting to see how long children born in the past 20 years will live. I truly think the big issue is the chemicals that are used on GMOs (but of course since GMO corn produces its own toxin it is considered a pesticide).

I for one remember it being a rarity to hear of a classmate having allergies. Now when I drop my daughter off at day camp I am warned of no peanuts because kids have severe allergies. We are doing something wrong if we go from rare allergies to the commonality of them within one generation.

My mom was a nurse and went to her 60th nursing school reunion a few years back. The President of her class opened her remarks with something like "There were 110 students in our class, we are all in our 80's and amazingly 90 are still alive, and 78 are here tonight. And despite what the health experts warn us about, we are the generation that grew up frying everything in 3 inches of bacon grease".

As I approach age 60, I begin to question just how much our environment and our food impact our health, and wonder if genetics may play a greater role than we think. My questions are based in the number of my friends that have had heart bypass surgery. About half are role models for heart disease, bad diet, overweight, no exercise. But the other half are athletes, a couple are even vegetarian. Their arteries were just as blocked as those with the unhealthy lifestyle.

 

[eliza61]

My mom was a nurse and went to her 60th nursing school reunion a few years back. The President of her class opened her remarks with something like "There were 110 students in our class, we are all in our 80's and amazingly 90 are still alive, and 78 are here tonight. And despite what the health experts warn us about, we are the generation that grew up frying everything in 3 inches of bacon grease".

As I approach age 60, I begin to question just how much our environment and our food impact our health, and wonder if genetics may play a greater role than we think. My questions are based in the number of my friends that have had heart bypass surgery. About half are role models for heart disease, bad diet, overweight, no exercise. But the other half are athletes, a couple are even vegetarian. Their arteries were just as blocked as those with the unhealthy lifestyle.

I think the problem tvguy is that you have to also look at cumulative and how we grow food also.
Your right my family is old southern African American thrown in with some West Indies. LOL we fry every thing and if it ain't smoke in pork, some things wrong.
No doubt about it, we are now realizing that all the process foods we eat and the chemicals we nuke our foods in change our genetics. I'm in the same age bracket as you. We didn't have peaches in March, those fruits and veggies were out of season. so if you didn't have them frozen or "put up" you didn't eat them. I took a food science class last summer at a culinary school here in philly and man o man the stuff they put in fruit to make it last longer, ripen quicker and to get it to market off season is scary.

I met a dr last summer in Paris, he was coming to the states to study heart disease which in France is not the crisis it is here. So the only good real life cases he can get are here in the states. Now I was in France for vacation and to take a baking/pastery class. talk about a country that smothers every thing in 10 lbs of European butter (which has a higher fat content than our butter) yet has lower incidents of health related diseases.

So now the question is becoming is genetics+food manufacturing + consumption killing us.

I live near Lancaster PA, amish farmers are in the city all the time selling fresh poultry. free of preservatives and hormones but modern day consumer doesn't want to buy chicken wings without hormones. they are small naturally. We want chicken wings that have a wing span the size of a boeing 727. over 60 years of eating chicken wings does that effect us.

 

[eliza61]

.

So, in my case, food increases do affect us. And we make very close to 6 figures...maybe even over in some years. It's not just a resentment that I can't buy a new purse, because I don't do that, either. But we live in a very high cost of living area, and our mortage and taxes are outrageous. A lot of our money goes to living costs in this area.

And that's the dilemma, it's almost impossible to stop artificially keeping prices low because it does have a real effect on some ones bottom line.

Interesting enough, I think food prices in HCOL areas are relatively cheap by virtue of competition.
My food budget was much lower in NYC because I had a plethero of places to go.
Same with philly, I've got every thing from Walmart to farmers markets to the Amish selling fresh poultry and produce so almost everyone is vying for your business.

When I was in Jersey I had shoprite and Acme. later the big warehouse stores came along.

now it does take some effort when I shop but I do much better in the city (HCOL) than when I was in the lower rent district.

 

[Colleen27]

My mom was a nurse and went to her 60th nursing school reunion a few years back. The President of her class opened her remarks with something like "There were 110 students in our class, we are all in our 80's and amazingly 90 are still alive, and 78 are here tonight. And despite what the health experts warn us about, we are the generation that grew up frying everything in 3 inches of bacon grease".

As I approach age 60, I begin to question just how much our environment and our food impact our health, and wonder if genetics may play a greater role than we think. My questions are based in the number of my friends that have had heart bypass surgery. About half are role models for heart disease, bad diet, overweight, no exercise. But the other half are athletes, a couple are even vegetarian. Their arteries were just as blocked as those with the unhealthy lifestyle.

I read that story and I think just the opposite... That the demonized practices of our grandparents/great-grandparents, while higher fat, may very well be better for us than the modern technology-based foods we're all eating today. Whether that has to go with GMO foods or synthetic hormones or replacing natural fats with engineered alternatives or the unnatural way we raise our meat and dairy animals or a combination of all of the above, it sure seems like the bacon grease and butter generation has fared better than the margarine and white meat generation, at least in my own extended family. My grandmother and all her sisters seem to have come with an expiration date - seven have passed on so far, six of those at 90 years old - but their kids aren't living nearly as long... several already gone of heart attack, stroke, or aneurysm already (the oldest are now in their mid/late 60s).

 

[Colleen27]

I live near Lancaster PA, amish farmers are in the city all the time selling fresh poultry. free of preservatives and hormones but modern day consumer doesn't want to buy chicken wings without hormones. they are small naturally. We want chicken wings that have a wing span the size of a boeing 727. over 60 years of eating chicken wings does that effect us.

And it seems so very common sense that it amazes me sometimes that there's any discussion/debate over it.... We readily accept the premise that poor diet and sedentary lifestyle contribute to unhealthy levels of body fat and cholesterol in our own bodies, but cling to our denial that there might be a nutritional difference between grass fed beef or free range chicken and the intentionally obese animals that come off of modern feedlots.