WDW removes brochures accross FL; hotels and tourism execs. furious

[jw2736]

I remember an old story when DL first opened. Walts bean counters complained that a souvenir guide cost something like $0.10 to make, but Walt wanted to give them away. Walts rationale was that the more guides that were given away, would end up on coffee table of more households. That would mean that visitors to those homes ,as well as the continued presence of the Disney name, would been seen by more people.

Now does this mean that Disney guides should be made available to hotels in Kentuky? Well no. The matter that Disney pulled those guides for hotels 70-90 miles away, makes decent sense. If you're staying in Daytona during race week, Disney is not ususally the main priority. I think maybe the guides could be given out upon request of the guests at the hotels. Ive seen kids and adults grabbing them by the handfuls, only to end up on the floor of the rental cars.

 

[DancingBear]

I don't care to criticize Disney's decision, just want to argue that park maps do play a role. Our DS10 is very much internet aware, but he loves looking at printed park maps, of our local park Kings Island, and also of the WDW parks. It plays a small but definite role in anticipating a trip. We always have a couple or three Kings Island maps that he leaves laying around the house.

It's not hard to imagine that a family that takes home some Disney maps may be somewhat more likely to visit, or visit sooner. It really helps with imagining being there. While Disney may have analyzed the marketing impact, it seems just as likely to me that somebody just decided they could save money without any such analysis.

I don't believe that the types of brochures we're talking about here contained park maps; based on the ones I remember, these were more of a colorful overview of the parks.

 

[DancingBear]

I was under the impression that the RCID's advantages (at least currently) have more to do with being self-regulating (instead of having to comply with regulations which, in Disney's view, are not suited to their development) than with any huge tax breaks.

 

[raidermatt]

Before we assume that everybody who enters the state of Florida knows all about WDW, let's remember all of the stories about guests INSIDE THE PARKS calling the Magic Kingdom "Disney World", and asking which bus they take to get to Universal Studios.

That said, I have no idea how much the brochures helped. But they are very cheap, especially when purchased in bulk, and they wouldn't have to have a very high "hit rate" to more than pay for themselves. What's more, the motels/hotels in the state can provide free advertising for Disney when their customers ask about the brochures and such. Annoying them by pulling the brochures can't help.

True, its probably not a big impact one way or the other. But it does seem to be an adversarial move, and as AV points out, that can have bigger ramifications. Especially when coupled with things like Disney's resistence to a convention center stop on the proposed rail system from the airport, or the way Magical Express has affected the shuttle business.

I'm not necessarily condemning any individual decision, but there is more to it than just saving a few nickels and dimes.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Most people pick their hotel based on location - having a rack stuffed with brochures in your lobby makes it seem like there is a lot to do in the area. And certainly Disney produces a much more exciting and colorful brochure than the local mom 'n pop motel can pull off.

So the stuffing in a hotels attractions rack is a primary driver in people deciding to stay there? Sorry, I'm having a hard time buying that much of any people decide to stay at a particular location based on a rack they couldn't possibly have seen before they got there, and once they are there they will experience the convenience, or lack thereof, of the place and make decisions about return visits based on that experience, not necessarily the filler in the attraction rack. Perhaps for some places in the middle ground the rack helps them assess how convenient the hotel actually is, but that's probably a relatively small population.

Keep in mind that it does not appear that Disney pulled ALL brochures. They are still playing good neighbor to the hotels and motels that can actually claim location and convenience to WDW. It's all the other place whose guests aren't likely to visit WDW during their stay, especially based solely on the brochures in question, that are losing them. Sure, there may be some middle ground, a place that is maybe close enough to draw a few guests but maybe not, but that always happens when you draw a line.

I doubt the Florida State Legislature is going to risk upsetting the whole of the Florida economy because Disney pulled their brochures out of fleabags in Tallahassee.

 

[Another Voice]

So the stuffing in a hotels attractions rack is a primary driver in people deciding to stay there?

No, but it is important in the motel proejcting itself as "convenient" and in a "good location". Most people going to Florida aren't going there to see WDW - it's business trips, family get togethers, all the normal day-to-day activities that normal people have. Small motels can't afford splashy ad campaigns so a lot of their marketing goes into trying to get repeat business. If Joe and Ethel Doublewide stop at the Comfee-Cozee Inn on I-4 when visting Aunt Rhonda, maybe (just maybe) the motel can convince Joe and Ethel to stay their again on their next trip to the aunt's or to WDW.

There's still a large number of people that travel by car - far more than the very well-off crowd that hangs around these boards.

The little guy uses these brochures to market themselves on the back of Disney. Yes, the swank crowd here is going to see that as a great evil - but that's the way vacations have operated since the first tavern opened outside of Plymouth.

And again - the brochures themselves aren't a big deal alone. It's just another example of changes in WDW decisions making. These changes can add up - just like the parks & resorts have been hacked by a thousand little cuts.

After a while when the nearby counties take a lot around and see that Disney isn't help - and in fact deliberatly hurting - all their tax paying, voting local businesses, there will be trouble. WDW is exempt from county taxes, from regional zoning assessments, from utility and sewer measures, from having to pay for schools even business licensees. Just imagine what Orange County would do if they could tax The Grand Floridian in the same way they can tax the Grand Cyprus. The less Disney acts differently from everyone else, the greater the chance they are going to be treated just like everyone else.

 

[kribit]

Because so many visitors that go to FL have NO IDEA where Disney is. Hmmm...Disney World is in Orlando?

What does John Stossel say "Give me a break."

 

[KMovies]

Disney's thoughts -

100 people spend the night at a tampa hotel. 1 father goes to the rack and says "Wow, they have a Disney park here in Florida." He takes the family to Disney.

I think today, most people's vacations are pre-planned and they pretty much know what they are going to do. They may add a side trip here and there but doubt that Disney would be any side trip someone would add = they would know they wanted to do that long before hitting the state of Florida on their road trip.

If you want park maps, you can now order them online from Disney. Disney will now mail you them custom made for you.

I don't believe those brocheres were driving business to Disney.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I think this is much to do about nothing. I seriously doubt anyone has ever chosen to stay at a hotel based on the propoganda brochures stuffed in a hotel lobby. I generally peruse them when at a hotel....looking for a local casino.....but wouldn't think people would need one to find WDW.

As for cost, several posts are dismissing this as only a few dollars and cents. How does anyone here know this? I haven't seen a number. Perhaps this cost savings is a lesser of some other evil. Perhaps this cut is being made to stave off some other less palatable cut?

 

[Jason71]

I think there is quite a bit of "DIS Board provincialism" in this thread--yes, most visitors to FL have heard of WDW, but 99.44% are not the "visit 4 times a year with a commando plan for the parks" types who post here.

To echo RaiderMatt, I dated a girl who worked in reservations--huge numbers of people do not know the difference between "Magic Kingdom" and "Disney World." And those are the ones planning on spending a week on property!

Non-Disney fans might not know about EE or the new Nemo overlay (if it's been a few years since their last visit, they might not even know about AK or the water parks). Brochures do a good job of showing people what's new and gently reminding them WDW is still there. Also, they give directions and a brief overview of the involved pricing structure (as a Daytona motel clerk, could you explain it in 30 seconds?). I hope you see how this could be useful for bikers and spring breakers who haven't sat thru the planning DVD 50 times and usually have a free day or two while they are down here. (You can be spontaneous when you aren't on the DDP and don't have to plan out every meal 180 days in advance. )

I live here, so this really doesn't affect me, and believe me, I have no love for "Dirt-tona." But much like Magial Express or the cloning of several local attractions, this illustrates WDW's desire to keep guests on site to the exclusion of any other business in FL.

And as AV points out, that could have consequences down the road.

 

[Jason71]

As for cost, several posts are dismissing this as only a few dollars and cents. How does anyone here know this? I haven't seen a number.

I admit I have no hard numbers, but the fact that Gatorland and various flea markets all keep the motels in question stocked with glossy brochures leads me to believe that the costs are minimal.

 

[RickinNYC]

I think their decision is the very definition of "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Then again, I suspect that this is going to save several million dollars so I can't blame them. I seriously doubt this was determined on the spur of the moment.

 

[DancingBear]

I don't believe it's correct that Disney is exempt from county property taxes. For example, there was a dispute many years ago with the Osceola County tax collector about whether the land on which Celebration was later built should qualify for an ag tax classification.

Here's the property tax assessment (not the tax bill, so it doesn't prove what they actually pay) for the Grand Floridian, showing a taxable value of $135 million+:

http://www.ocpafl.org/pls/webappI/g...11000000002&query_data=1111111O&tax_year=2007

And now I found the bill--they paid $1,700,000+ in property taxes on the Grand Floridian in 2006:

http://www.octaxcol.com/dev/result.asp?txtAccountID=112427000000002

It appears that the Hyatt Grand Cypress Resort is assessed at a little less than $80 million, which is about 60% of the Grand Floridian assessment, but Hyatt paid $1.3 million in Orange County taxes, which is somewhat more than 60% of the GF's bill; I assume that reflects the fact that the GF also pays taxes to RCID for the services provided by the RCID, including those like roads and fire protection that would otherwise be Orange County's responsiblity.

The RCID collected a total of $33 million+ in ad valorem taxes in the fiscal year ended 9/30/05.

 

[Geubux]

If the brochures are so important to the hotel industry, then they should pay for the brochures themselves. I'll bet Disney would give them permission.

 

[raidermatt]

This is one of those times I wish I had a time machine. I'd love to go back to last week and post a criticism of Disney for stupidly wasting money for decades on these full-color brochures they give away to these roach motels trying to gravy train their way on Disney's back.

It would be very interesting to compare the responses.

But I digress...



Again, if everybody in Florida knows everything they need to know about WDW, why would anybody care if the brochures went away? Why would hotels be complaining about an increase in questions from their guests?

We can argue as long as we want about the true cost effectiveness of the brochures for Disney. The truth is we don't know. Certainly its not the no-brainer some are making it out to be, or somebody would have questioned it already, and Disney would have got rid of them long ago.

But the overiding point continues to be the more adversarial relationship Disney is developing with the surrounding areas. It may never turn out to be a significant problem for WDW, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either.

 

[wdw4us2]

No, but it is important in the motel projecting itself as "convenient" and in a "good location". Most people going to Florida aren't going there to see WDW - it's business trips, family get togethers, all the normal day-to-day activities that normal people have. Small motels can't afford splashy ad campaigns so a lot of their marketing goes into trying to get repeat business. If Joe and Ethel Doublewide stop at the Comfee-Cozee Inn on I-4 when visting Aunt Rhonda, maybe (just maybe) the motel can convince Joe and Ethel to stay their again on their next trip to the aunt's or to WDW.

There's still a large number of people that travel by car - far more than the very well-off crowd that hangs around these boards.

The little guy uses these brochures to market themselves on the back of Disney.

You would be surprised as to how many people that live in Florida don't have a clue about WDW other than the fact it's "in Orlando".

I have personally overheard people in local hotels/motels remark that they didn't realized they were this close to WDW (after seeing the brochures). It makes you wonder how many of these people make a day trip to WDW and won't be doing that now. A lot of the Mom & Pop motels do market themselves as being convenient for visits to WDW, Kennedy Space Center, etc.

Disney does not enjoy the same goodwill in Florida as they once did. This is just one more instance of the bottom line ruling their thinking rather than public relations.

 

[cpprinttom]

As for cost, several posts are dismissing this as only a few dollars and cents. How does anyone here know this? I haven't seen a number. Perhaps this cost savings is a lesser of some other evil. Perhaps this cut is being made to stave off some other less palatable cut?

With the quantity they would be purchacing, The Brochures cost them around 3-5 Cents each, I am sure they were going through MILLIONS of brochures!! I work in the Printing Business so I am pretty sure about the cost!!

 

[mitros]

Just from our own personal experiences over the years, I would have to wonder what percentage of these "throwaways" actually accomplish what they are put there on those racks for. I don't know how many times we have seen folks, and really, mostly kids, grab fist fulls of these colorful fliers and carry them around the lobby of a hotel or at rest stops on major roadways, and just toss them in the trash on the way out when mom says "don't bring that garbage into the car!" Or wifey says to hubby, "we don't need anymore stuff floating around in the SUV/Van/motorhome, get rid of that junk!" into the trash bin,or onto the easy chair in the lobby they go on the way out the door.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Sometimes a brochure reminds you that you are close enough to go visit THIS trip if the trip includes a generous amount of free time.

I can understand why Disney has elected to stop stocking every rinky dink motel and restaurant but I can't help but think this is yet another golden opportunity for Universal Studios, Sea World, Busch Gardens and the Kennedy Center.

Personally I think these small businesses should say "oh well" and see what kind of tie in they can negotiate with Disney's competitors.

 

[RabFlmom]

Disney's decision to get rid of the costly brochures( they will be saving millions) is in part because most people are using computers to find out about vacation sites anyway. No matter where you live you can pull up Disney.com and learn all there is to know. Even if you don't own a computer your local library is on line and you can go there to book trips etc.
So basically I see this as streamling and doing away with the obsolete-sort of like the old pay telephones that were on every street corner but replaced by all of us using our cell phones. JMHO Seems like Disney is just going with the times.