WDW getting too complicated???

[IrishNYC]

There are definitely over-planners that make it way more complicated than it needs to be, but that's because we have too many tools that allow us to be over-planners. Look at Touring Plans - you can plan right down to the minute everything you want to do. Park hours being extended shouldn't cause you to change your FPs. I don't understand that one. How does adding an hour or two at the end of the day change your FP needs and desires? That's overcomplicating things. The wealth of information out there alone makes it too complicated. There are pages and pages of threads right here on this site that overcomplicate things, or obsess over things so much that to the casual poster here it becomes overwhelming, and a contest to make sure you do. it. all.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

But then again I have struck conversations with people in lines or while waiting for the parade that just showed up that day, bought a ticket that day and held a map of the park for the first time that day. Most of them (I won't say 100%) told me they had an amazing time, I asked if they got fp, they said, no or they would say, we got them when we came in. I asked if they manage to get one for a ride they wanted to do, they usually respond "no or we didn't know we what we wanted to ride so we just made the line" Most of these people are the ones you see around the park with a smile on their face and an open map in their hands. The grumpy ones are the ones with a plan, and things to do and places to get to.
I'm not saying all planners are grumpy and I'm not saying all people without a plan are happy. It's just how you approach your day. Many people feel that if they don't have everything planned the way they want it, to go on the rides they want and eat at the restaurants they want then they are not getting their moneys worth. Others think that just being at the parks and having the options to experience many attractions, shows and entertainment is plenty of value.

We had a trip booked but didn't know we were going until 4 weeks before. It was the last week of August 2011. I booked a few ADR's and off we went. I was very relaxed about this trip. Even the packing part. I even forgot my camera. We got up in the morning and for the most part just picked which park that day but we always start and end with MK. We had the BEST time. I think just going in and not having ALL of these plans sets you up to have the best time. When you make too many plans you are setting yourself up for more disappointment because, IME, nothing ever goes according to plan.

 

[Delirium]

Progress!

There you go. A new theme for Carousel of Progress!

 

[Jennasis]

This is part of the reason I'm looking forward to our trip next year. We'll stay in our DVC accommodations but we aren't doing Disney. Instead we're hitting Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica/Busch Gardens. I am looking forward to a more relaxed, seat-of-our-pants trip. Won't actually be back to Disney until fall/winter of 2018. I'm hoping this gives the company time to get its act together, figure out its direction and get some of the never ending construction done.

 

[mco65]

This is part of the reason I'm looking forward to our trip next year. We'll stay in our DVC accommodations but we aren't doing Disney. Instead we're hitting Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica/Busch Gardens. I am looking forward to a more relaxed, seat-of-our-pants trip. Won't actually be back to Disney until fall/winter of 2018. I'm hoping this gives the company time to get its act together, figure out its direction and get some of the never ending construction done.

Dreaming of a vacation like this but it will be a while for me. My kids are still a bit young and my wife prefers commando style. You should have seen the look she gave me once when i dared suggest we schedule a down day mid week for our next Disney vacation and just sit by the pool...

 

[gmboy95]

The problem Disney has and has yet to realize...is that the experience for someone that wants to put together a last minute trip, or the day traveler has been severely degraded over the past number of years. It is true that if you do not have a really good understanding of all the deadlines and time frames and the FP system, it greatly effects your experience....This has to be addressed at some point

 

[gmboy95]

This is part of the reason I'm looking forward to our trip next year. We'll stay in our DVC accommodations but we aren't doing Disney. Instead we're hitting Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica/Busch Gardens. I am looking forward to a more relaxed, seat-of-our-pants trip. Won't actually be back to Disney until fall/winter of 2018. I'm hoping this gives the company time to get its act together, figure out its direction and get some of the never ending construction done.

I agree....that unfortunately now that the kids are older, I envision a whole bunch of "non-park", non annual pass trips in our future

 

[danc18]

I can see both views but it depends on your situation. Adults and teens may be willing to wait 30-90 minutes for an attraction but not preschoolers. Same for meals. Finding a place for 6 of you to sit down and eat something will be a challenge without ADR's. I haven't been to wdw in 10 years but going soon with grandkids. It couldn't be a success without the complex planning required today. I don't mind doing it but from everything I read it's absolutely necessary. When I explain all the planning I've done, people look at me like I have two heads. Same if I mention the cost. But it's now a personal challenge to make this an awesome, stress free trip. Thanks to this board, I think it will be. I'll also mention that I read the board daily (retired now) and am so impressed at the quality of the posts and positive attitude of everyone. A great bunch of people!

 

[DrunkJam]

I can see both views but it depends on your situation. Adults and teens may be willing to wait 30-90 minutes for an attraction but not preschoolers. Same for meals. Finding a place for 6 of you to sit down and eat something will be a challenge without ADR's. I haven't been to wdw in 10 years but going soon with grandkids. It couldn't be a success without the complex planning required today. I don't mind doing it but from everything I read it's absolutely necessary. When I explain all the planning I've done, people look at me like I have two heads. Same if I mention the cost. But it's now a personal challenge to make this an awesome, stress free trip. Thanks to this board, I think it will be. I'll also mention that I read the board daily (retired now) and am so impressed at the quality of the posts and positive attitude of everyone. A great bunch of people!

Yes, definitely the case that we would be missing out on a huge amount with out the DIS. I think I will feel more relaxed once the ADRs are actually made. I have done a day plan, of ADRs so that we can aim to have a day with x reservations, then I can fidget them around, like I don't mind which day our x reservation is, but I would like it to be (for example) one dinner time at about 4:30-5 ish. Or y reservation any breakfast at about 8 (give or take) then I can organise my day sheets into the order they will actually happen, which means I can focus on which Fps to look at depending on where we will actually be, but without the DIS, I wouldn't know what to do.
PLUS, I know to book the extras we want too. Thanks to all.

 

[loves to dive]

I can see both views but it depends on your situation. Adults and teens may be willing to wait 30-90 minutes for an attraction but not preschoolers. Same for meals. Finding a place for 6 of you to sit down and eat something will be a challenge without ADR's. I haven't been to wdw in 10 years but going soon with grandkids. It couldn't be a success without the complex planning required today. I don't mind doing it but from everything I read it's absolutely necessary. When I explain all the planning I've done, people look at me like I have two heads. Same if I mention the cost. But it's now a personal challenge to make this an awesome, stress free trip. Thanks to this board, I think it will be. I'll also mention that I read the board daily (retired now) and am so impressed at the quality of the posts and positive attitude of everyone. A great bunch of people!

I think it might depend upon the child. When we started going there was no such thing as FP so if you wanted to ride a ride or see a show, you waited in line and yes, some of the lines could be up to a hour. My son wasn't 3 yet and I was a single mother, we had not problems waiting in line. He would talk to other kids or he and I would talk. There was no such thing as booking a restaurant that far in advance either, I think you could call and book it like a week in advance or you could go to CS and get them to do it, which we loved doing. I could see where it might be a challenge for 6 but for preschoolers standing in line doesn't have to be a big deal. Of course, we were lucky this was before every kid had an IPAD or phone or some sort of electronic device attached to their hand so they sort of had to learn how to play and it helped he was an only child so he knew how to occupy himself. I think it also helped that he knew this was something special so he just enjoyed every second of it.

 

[Klayfish]

I like planning, but yes, it's too complicated. I truly don't believe that you can have an experience nearly at all worth the cost of Disney unless you haunt these boards and develop a Monk-like (the TV show character, not the religious title) obsession with planning. It would be one thing if you could still have a reasonably good time worth $100/day or more just by showing up, but I think, just by showing up, you're looking at probably a $50 experience at best and I just don't think that's optimal.

I couldn't disagree more. I've been going to WDW as an adult since 2003, and I didn't even discover this board until a few months ago. Both before and after finding this board, here's how the "planning" my wife and I do has gone like this:

Sit down with a cup of coffee and a sheet of regular school paper. Write down the days we're going to be there, calendar style. Then decide which park we're going to go to that day and if it's morning, afternoon or evening. We do that simply so that we don't hit the same park several days in a row and try to avoid a late night followed by rope drop. Done. Planning over. Of course with FP+ now being part of MDE, we will get FP+ as far in advance as we can, but that literally takes 3-5 minutes per day, tops. And in all truth, we wind up changing probably 30-40% of those sketched out plans on the fly while we're actually in WDW, just based on our mood, weather, etc... I think some people would be astounded at the minimal amount of planning we actually do. Yet, we feel we get every penny's worth of our tickets. We spend a lot of time in the parks, and get a ton of stuff done. For us, obsessive planning would be wasted time and would get us little beyond what we already get. We have a blast not planning, and in fact I'd argue that's half the fun. When we have really long trips, 10-17 days, we intentionally leave a large number of "freestyle" blocks of time. So for example, we may have it on our little paper calendar that we'll be in MK one morning. We'll leave the afternoon as freestyle. That means when we're in MK that day and ready to leave, we'll decide on a whim what we want to do next. So obviously, there's zero planning involved there, because it's done on a whim. It's a lot of fun and our kids love it.

I also agree with AngiTN that the "good ol' days", whatever you remember them to be, are gone. WDW has grown by leaps and bounds, and technology has changed. To me, it's kinda like wishing for the good ol days of having a rotary phone and a choice between VHS and Beta. Nostalgic...sure, but not all it's cracked up to be by todays' standards.

 

[mom2rtk]

To me, it's kinda like wishing for the good ol days of having a rotary phone and a choice between VHS and Beta. Nostalgic...sure, but not all it's cracked up to be by todays' standards.

If that's the case, then hand me the rotary phone, please.

 

[Princesca]

I couldn't disagree more. I've been going to WDW as an adult since 2003, and I didn't even discover this board until a few months ago.

That is nice for you, but just looking at your signature I can see that you are likely not the "typical" Disney parkgoer we're talking about. You went four times, for instance, in 2015. And the very notion of a 10-17 day trip is not feasible for what I would assume is the majority of families. I am happy for you that you have the ability to take long and frequent trips, but having such long trips by default makes it possible to go without planning at all. Of course if you have four days to spend in MK you'll get to go do everything you want.

For most people, the much more common reality is a 5-6 day trip every 2-3 years, I think, or even shorter or less often. If you have one day in MK, at $100+ a ticket, and you won't be going back for five years, do you really think you'd get $400 of enjoyment out of it for a family of four without utilizing FP+ or ADR?

 

[AngiTN]

That is nice for you, but just looking at your signature I can see that you are likely not the "typical" Disney parkgoer we're talking about. You went four times, for instance, in 2015. And the very notion of a 10-17 day trip is not feasible for what I would assume is the majority of families. I am happy for you that you have the ability to take long and frequent trips, but having such long trips by default makes it possible to go without planning at all. Of course if you have four days to spend in MK you'll get to go do everything you want.

For most people, the much more common reality is a 5-6 day trip every 2-3 years, I think, or even shorter or less often. If you have one day in MK, at $100+ a ticket, and you won't be going back for five years, do you really think you'd get $400 of enjoyment out of it for a family of four without utilizing FP+ or ADR?

Don't confuse not booking FP or ADR way in advance with not using FP or ADR at all. Just because you don't book them at day 60/180 doesn't mean you are out of luck. Not by a long shot.
I do think families can get full enjoyment from WDW without booking booking FP on day 60 or ADR at 180 days. I know people who have, including 1 guy who went in to the trip expecting to hate it all, and came back with nothing but glowing things to say. They made all their plans for the day that morning. I think plenty of people do this and have an excellent trip.

 

[Princesca]

Don't confuse not booking FP or ADR way in advance with not using FP or ADR at all. Just because you don't book them at day 60/180 doesn't mean you are out of luck. Not by a long shot.
I do think families can get full enjoyment from WDW without booking booking FP on day 60 or ADR at 180 days. I know people who have, including 1 guy who went in to the trip expecting to hate it all, and came back with nothing but glowing things to say. They made all their plans for the day that morning. I think plenty of people do this and have an excellent trip.

I don't know... when I went in 2012, and this was during a "low" time (they still had them back then) I had a really hard time getting ADRs for any of the places most recommended on Trip Advisor. Which, as someone who hadn't been to WDW in a long time, seemed the natural way to pick a place to go. We Disney veteran planners would say, "Well you can't expect Ohana or BOG for Pete's sake!" but that's my point. Your "average" Disney visitor doesn't know that those reservations are coveted. All they see is 'Wow, I called the top five restaurants listed and I STILL can't find a place anywhere. What the heck?"

Anyway, we all have different experiences and anecdotal evidence to support our claims. The original point I made was my opinion. In my opinion, it's too complicated. I benefit from it at the expense of others (such as scoring that FP+ to bypass a long line while they wait), because I know how the system works and I put the work in to planning and they don't, so I guess I'm glad for it from that respect in that my trips are more hassle free. But as a hardcore Disney planner, and someone who's always been gleeful setting up those planning spreadsheets and working everything out for as smooth a trip as possible, even I am finding that this will be a second job if you let it, and it's just not as fun for me as it used to be.

I guess the bloom is off the rose for me, and that makes the planning I feel compelled to do (because of my own lack of tolerance for long lines and desire to experience as much as possible) less tolerable.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't know... when I went in 2012, and this was during a "low" time (they still had them back then) I had a really hard time getting ADRs for any of the places most recommended on Trip Advisor. Which, as someone who hadn't been to WDW in a long time, seemed the natural way to pick a place to go. We Disney veteran planners would say, "Well you can't expect Ohana or BOG for Pete's sake!" but that's my point. Your "average" Disney visitor doesn't know that those reservations are coveted. All they see is 'Wow, I called the top five restaurants listed and I STILL can't find a place anywhere. What the heck?"

Anyway, we all have different experiences and anecdotal evidence to support our claims. The original point I made was my opinion. In my opinion, it's too complicated. I benefit from it at the expense of others (such as scoring that FP+ to bypass a long line while they wait), because I know how the system works and I put the work in to planning and they don't, so I guess I'm glad for it from that respect in that my trips are more hassle free. But as a hardcore Disney planner, and someone who's always been gleeful setting up those planning spreadsheets and working everything out for as smooth a trip as possible, even I am finding that this will be a second job if you let it, and it's just not as fun for me as it used to be.

I guess the bloom is off the rose for me, and that makes the planning I feel compelled to do (because of my own lack of tolerance for long lines and desire to experience as much as possible) less tolerable.

I agree with you. And I am someone who used to love planning my Disney trips. I loved 180 day ADRs. I loved thinking about and dreaming about our trip the full 6 months in advance. I didn't mind picking our park days in advance and even scheduling our meals so we get in at the places we really want to eat. But adding in ride reservations took it over the top for me. Then this mess of Disney making so many last minute changes to the schedule and entertainment lately just puts it way into the "not for me" category. It's like a big game of "whack a mole" where you keep having to adjust based on last minute surprises from Disney.

Even if we can still enjoy park time, the planning phase (which used to be a source of enjoyment for me) is definitely no fun any more.

We mostly defected to DL. But even planning for that has become far less enjoyable. No ride reservations there, but the same mess of waiting later and later into the game before announcing schedules and entertainment. People visiting in mid-October still don't have a complete calendar to work with.

 

[Klayfish]

That is nice for you, but just looking at your signature I can see that you are likely not the "typical" Disney parkgoer we're talking about. You went four times, for instance, in 2015. And the very notion of a 10-17 day trip is not feasible for what I would assume is the majority of families. I am happy for you that you have the ability to take long and frequent trips, but having such long trips by default makes it possible to go without planning at all. Of course if you have four days to spend in MK you'll get to go do everything you want.

For most people, the much more common reality is a 5-6 day trip every 2-3 years, I think, or even shorter or less often. If you have one day in MK, at $100+ a ticket, and you won't be going back for five years, do you really think you'd get $400 of enjoyment out of it for a family of four without utilizing FP+ or ADR?

No, I don't think it's worth $400 for a family of four to do one day at Disney, regardless of how much they plan. I just don't. WDW is so big that even if you planned literally every second, you'd still only scratch the surface of what it has to offer. That's why we haven't gone to Universal. We don't have a ton of interest in it, and a one day pass for my family would be around $500, so we skip it. Everyone's opinion is different, but if I weren't an AP holder, I wouldn't buy a WDW ticket for less than 3 days. I think the value of a one day ticket is an entirely different conversation than planning, because as I said no amount of planning will make a one day ticket worth the money IMHO. For what it's worth, buried in all those trips we made in 2015 are several trips that were only 3 or 4 days long, tops. We did almost no planning for those whatsoever and still had a great time.

I would still stand by my thoughts that a family doing an "average" trip, say between 4-7 days, can have a very enjoyable and "productive" trip with a minimal amount of planning. I do agree that FP+ is a HUGE benefit and you should know how to use that, but it doesn't take a ton of time to do. Beyond that, go have fun. Reality is that if you're a first time visitor, even a 7 day trip perfectly planned won't allow you to do it all. So why stress over it? Do some basics so you at least know where you're going, but beyond that just have fun. I firmly believe it's very possible to have a lot of fun without a hard and fast plan. I'd actually enjoy it far less if I had a strict schedule I had to stick to.

 

[Princesca]

But adding in ride reservations took it over the top for me. Then this mess of Disney making so many last minute changes to the schedule and entertainment lately just puts it way into the "not for me" category. It's like a big game of "whack a mole" where you keep having to adjust based on last minute surprises from Disney.

I agree. And as I said, if I didn't do any planning or make any reservations or FP ahead of time, I think I could enjoy myself, but at the level of $100+ per person? Not so much. For me, I think that would be closer to a $60 or $70 experience.

I made my ADRs late this time, but not that late, and I couldn't get 'reasonable' dining times for just about anything I wanted unless I wanted to eat at 8:30 PM. I was able to score a BOG during the time I wanted, but that was because I used TP's reservation finder, which is not something that even all TP subscribers seem to know about, much less the average person who doesn't even know TP exists.

Add to all this ride closures, parade cancellations, so much under construction, and no commitment from Disney as to final and complete scheduling, and it's annoying.

 

[mom2rtk]

No, I don't think it's worth $400 for a family of four to do one day at Disney, regardless of how much they plan. I just don't. WDW is so big that even if you planned literally every second, you'd still only scratch the surface of what it has to offer. That's why we haven't gone to Universal. We don't have a ton of interest in it, and a one day pass for my family would be around $500, so we skip it. Everyone's opinion is different, but if I weren't an AP holder, I wouldn't buy a WDW ticket for less than 3 days. I think the value of a one day ticket is an entirely different conversation than planning, because as I said no amount of planning will make a one day ticket worth the money IMHO. For what it's worth, buried in all those trips we made in 2015 are several trips that were only 3 or 4 days long, tops. We did almost no planning for those whatsoever and still had a great time.

I would still stand by my thoughts that a family doing an "average" trip, say between 4-7 days, can have a very enjoyable and "productive" trip with a minimal amount of planning. I do agree that FP+ is a HUGE benefit and you should know how to use that, but it doesn't take a ton of time to do. Beyond that, go have fun. Reality is that if you're a first time visitor, even a 7 day trip perfectly planned won't allow you to do it all. So why stress over it? Do some basics so you at least know where you're going, but beyond that just have fun. I firmly believe it's very possible to have a lot of fun without a hard and fast plan. I'd actually enjoy it far less if I had a strict schedule I had to stick to.

And I would never buy a 3 day ticket. I can get value for a one day ticket in the MK. We have done that on a number of occasions when we visit FL for a family beach vacation. But 3 days would just frustrate me. No real price break yet per day, and not enough time to really do all the parks. We typically do just a day or a week.

 

[Princesca]

Reality is that if you're a first time visitor, even a 7 day trip perfectly planned won't allow you to do it all. So why stress over it?

I agree, obviously, but there is a big difference between hitting most major attractions in a day at MK because you know how to use FP+ and TPs and those tips and tricks that we at the DIS know, and like one trip report I read where a family was able to hit only three attractions before noon and got so frustrated they just gave up and went back to the hotel to swim.