Was this teacher out of line...?

[AKL_Megs]

There was a thread on here the other day about a child who was "punished" by not being able to have a friend accompany her on a family getaway.

My co-worker today, coincidentally, told me an interesting and similar story!

Apparently, my co-worker's DD (7) was waiting at the bus stop on Monday morning when a classmate of hers (also 7) came up and said to her, "Your mom is so weird and ugly." My co-workers DD responded with, "Well, at least MY mom doesn't dress crazy like YOUR mom!" (Apparently, the classmate and his mother practice some religion in which the women wear traditional attire.) The classmate ran right home to his mother and told her what my co-workers DD just said to him. (There is a designated SAHM "bus stop mom" who watches all of the kids at the bus stop, so the working moms can "drop and roll" to work, so he kids were not alone.) The classmates mother immediately called the TEACHER and told her about the happenings at the bus stop. Once the kids all got to school, co-workers DD was made to sit outside of the classroom for a good portion of the morning, and a note was sent home with her. The DD told her mom what was said to her first, and in "kid speak", that she was "defending" herself.

It is my co-workers DD's birthday at the end of the month, and the party has been cancelled as "punishment". I don't think invites were sent out yet or anything, and I believe that perhaps it is a fair punishment for an 8th birthday to be missed. Perhaps a little much, but I am not her mom.

What bothers me and has me wondering is about what the teacher did. Is it really the concern of the SCHOOL teacher what happens on "home" hours at the BUS STOP? To me, kids say mean things to each other, it is what kids do. Why didn't the boy who called my co-worker "weird and ugly" get punished and sent in the hall with a note sent home? Why didn't the teacher get both sides of the story? Better yet, why would a "kids will be kids" kind of every day situation be THAT big of a deal?

Have times changed that much since I was in school?

 

[C.Ann]

There was a thread on here the other day about a child who was "punished" by not being able to have a friend accompany her on a family getaway.

My co-worker today, coincidentally, told me an interesting and similar story!

Apparently, my co-worker's DD (7) was waiting at the bus stop on Monday morning when a classmate of hers (also 7) came up and said to her, "Your mom is so weird and ugly." My co-workers DD responded with, "Well, at least MY mom doesn't dress crazy like YOUR mom!" (Apparently, the classmate and his mother practice some religion in which the women wear traditional attire.) The classmate ran right home to his mother and told her what my co-workers DD just said to him. (There is a designated SAHM "bus stop mom" who watches all of the kids at the bus stop, so the working moms can "drop and roll" to work, so he kids were not alone.) The classmates mother immediately called the TEACHER and told her about the happenings at the bus stop. Once the kids all got to school, co-workers DD was made to sit outside of the classroom for a good portion of the morning, and a note was sent home with her. The DD told her mom what was said to her first, and in "kid speak", that she was "defending" herself.

It is my co-workers DD's birthday at the end of the month, and the party has been cancelled as "punishment". I don't think invites were sent out yet or anything, and I believe that perhaps it is a fair punishment for an 8th birthday to be missed. Perhaps a little much, but I am not her mom.What bothers me and has me wondering is about what the teacher did. Is it really the concern of the SCHOOL teacher what happens on "home" hours at the BUS STOP? To me, kids say mean things to each other, it is what kids do. Why didn't the boy who called my co-worker "weird and ugly" get punished and sent in the hall with a note sent home? Why didn't the teacher get both sides of the story? Better yet, why would a "kids will be kids" kind of every day situation be THAT big of a deal?

Have times changed that much since I was in school?

She's going to cancel her birthday party over that??? Wow!

When my kids were younger, bus stop issues were handled by the principal - not the teacher..

 

[FireDancer]

I would be very upset if anything that happened outside of school was dealt with in school. And no, the bus stop is not in school regardless of what some school administrator wants to say.

I don't even care if the child is right or wrong, that is something I would deal with at home. The second my child crosses the property line of the school the school's responsibility and authority ends and I would fight for my child then deal with them in the way I see fit for the incident.

 

[java]

"There is a designated SAHM "bus stop mom" who watches all of the kids at the bus stop, so the working moms can "drop and roll" to work, so he kids were not alone."
Who designated her? Maybe she doesn't know that's her role.

Anyway the whole thing seems like some pieces of the story are missing. Canceling a party over that? really I think there might be more going on.

And I'm with C.Ann in that our principal handles the bus issues. Not a teacher.

 

[AKL_Megs]

I would be very upset if anything that happened outside of school was dealt with in school. And no, the bus stop is not in school regardless of what some school administrator wants to say.

I don't even care if the child is right or wrong, that is something I would deal with at home. The second my child crosses the property line of the school the school's responsibility and authority ends and I would fight for my child then deal with them in the way I see fit for the incident.

This is totally how I feel! If it was something like, a kid getting kidnapped at the bus stop, I bet the school would want NOTHING to do with it!

 

[AKL_Megs]

"There is a designated SAHM "bus stop mom" who watches all of the kids at the bus stop, so the working moms can "drop and roll" to work, so he kids were not alone."
Who designated her? Maybe she doesn't know that's her role.

Anyway the whole thing seems like some pieces of the story are missing. Canceling a party over that? really I think there might be more going on.

And I'm with C.Ann in that our principal handles the bus issues. Not a teacher.

This "Bus Stop Mom" designated herself... she has like, 5 kids and just offered herself up to sit in her car and watch the kids off. (In the winter, they all crowd in her van to stay warm... I hear about this lady often, LOL! )

 

[msteddom]

I do think it is strange that the teacher got involved, and I am a teacher. It could be policy that school bus stops are considered school grounds, but if that is the case then the principal should have handled it and not the teacher.

Melissa

 

[Stacerita]

I think its odd for the teacher to get involved. Do kids get in trouble at school if on the weekend they run into each other and start going all "your mama" on each other?

I think the child might have done a few other things to get her party canceled. This may have been the final straw.

I don't think she should have gotten in trouble over it though. Heck, people call out other's moms all the time.

 

[Traveliz]

Years ago (my step son is now 31) -- he was in about 4th grade and I PICKED him up from school, he had been home maybe a half an hour and did something rude to a neighbor down the alley (that we didn't know). I can't even remember what it was...at any rate the neighbor called the school and complained about it (maybe an hour after school had been let out and my step son was in my care (my husband had custody and this was his home).

The principal then called me to inform me my step son would be punished at school the next day. Again it wasn't a huge thing -- maybe he picked their flowers, something along that line. Well of course I would have dealt with it myself and wish the neighbor would have come to me herself but I was pretty livid that the principal decided that my step son would be punished at school for something that happened after I physically picked him up (he wasn't walking home, he wasn't a bus student) and had been in my care. He told me the school was always responsible for what the child did and I asked if he had been hit by a car after I had picked him up would that be the case and of course the answer was no. Every scenario I presented aside from hassling the neighbor was "well no the school wouldn't be responsible," but I couldn't sway him from his thinking that he was going to deal with this at school the next day.

It still irritates me to think about it (stupid I know). And sorry I know it has little to do with this story.

Liz

 

[Wishing on a star]

The school-bus 'police' had no business relaying anything to the teacher to begin with.

There is NOTHING worse than somebody who runs their mouth and makes everything their business...

Except for school teacher-gods who know NO limits to their supposed authority.

Glad I and DS don't have to be subjected to this type of thing anymore.

 

[Inigo]

The school is responsible for the children during the transport to school if the school provides the transportation. If the bus stop is a school designated bus stop, then the school is responsible for the children while they are there.

At least that's how it was explained to me when I was getting my teaching degree.

 

[johnsontrio]

Kinda off topic here but what really stands out in this story is....being in school or at a bus stop in early August... I'm in Livonia and am wondering which school is already back in session around here?

My DD doesn't go back until Sept. 9th since Labor Day falls so late this year. I know Catholic Central and Ladywood start in mid August, but you must be talking about a public school that has some sort of year round scheduling. I didn't know of any that close to me.

Did you used to live somewhere like Royal Oak or do I have you confused with another poster?

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

The school is responsible for the children during the transport to school if the school provides the transportation. If the bus stop is a school designated bus stop, then the school is responsible for the children while they are there.

At least that's how it was explained to me when I was getting my teaching degree.

That is how I understand it too. The school assigns the child a location to wait for the school bus. The child waits there, whether or not there is a parent there to supervise. The children are technically under the school's care at that point. If a child would get hit by a car while waiting for the bus, people would be screaming that the SCHOOL didn't do enough to protect the child, not the parents. The situation was a school issue not a home issue. If it happened after the child got home from school (sort of like in the PP case) then it is a home issue.

The teacher isn't to blame here - he/she was just doing his/her job.

 

[LMC]

So the school system leaves children unattended? Back in the day, whatever you did before you got on the bus and after you got off the bus was your business. I can't imagine the school districts assuming responsibility for kids who have to walk blocks from a bus stop to a home as I had to when I was young.

Any who, back to the original post...if one was punished BOTH should have been and if I were the mother of the child who was punished I would have been livid if the other child did not receive the same punishment. but you did not post that info.

Is the other kids mom the one who is the bus stop monitor?

 

[AKL_Megs]

Years ago (my step son is now 31) -- he was in about 4th grade and I PICKED him up from school, he had been home maybe a half an hour and did something rude to a neighbor down the alley (that we didn't know). I can't even remember what it was...at any rate the neighbor called the school and complained about it (maybe an hour after school had been let out and my step son was in my care (my husband had custody and this was his home).

The principal then called me to inform me my step son would be punished at school the next day. Again it wasn't a huge thing -- maybe he picked their flowers, something along that line. Well of course I would have dealt with it myself and wish the neighbor would have come to me herself but I was pretty livid that the principal decided that my step son would be punished at school for something that happened after I physically picked him up (he wasn't walking home, he wasn't a bus student) and had been in my care. He told me the school was always responsible for what the child did and I asked if he had been hit by a car after I had picked him up would that be the case and of course the answer was no. Every scenario I presented aside from hassling the neighbor was "well no the school wouldn't be responsible," but I couldn't sway him from his thinking that he was going to deal with this at school the next day.

It still irritates me to think about it (stupid I know). And sorry I know it has little to do with this story.

Liz

Actually, IMO, your story is similar! And isn't it a hoot how they wouldn't accept responsibility for an ACCIDENT, only name calling (or flower picking! )

Kinda off topic here but what really stands out in this story is....being in school or at a bus stop in early August... I'm in Livonia and am wondering which school is already back in session around here?

My DD doesn't go back until Sept. 9th since Labor Day falls so late this year. I know Catholic Central and Ladywood start in mid August, but you must be talking about a public school that has some sort of year round scheduling. I didn't know of any that close to me.

Did you used to live somewhere like Royal Oak or do I have you confused with another poster?

LOL, I am a flight attendant! My co-worker is from Memphis! I am in Novi! Hello neighbor!!! We are actually looking for a house in Livonia.

Is the other kids mom the one who is the bus stop monitor?

No, it's some other lady.

 

[RNMOM]

I think our society has taken away the childhood of our children. We no longer allow them to learn valuable life lessons by interracting with others. We no longer allow them to make even one mistake with a warning that if it is repeated they will be punished. Nope, they get the punishment immediately. How are they to learn unless they can see the results of their deeds? That girl probably felt what she said was not good and will possibly not repeat that again but instead she was punished by her teacher for something she did. The teacher relied on hearsay from the monitor and I agree, it was not even on school property or during school hours. School had nothing to do with it.

Have you never done or said something to another child and seen their reaction and the reactions of others who also heard you? Did you not learn that it was something not to be done again because it caused you embarrassment? Lesson learned. No adults involved.

 

[NHdisneylover]

First off--hi former neighborsWe used to live in Livonia. Still missing the rec. center (which was only a year old when we moved away).

Two issues here. First is what control do/should schools have at the bus stop? This is sort of a gray area for me. I feel like most of the time teh shcool should NOT be involved in what happens at the bus stop--unless they want to go so far as to also provide supervision at the stop. However, (there is always a however isn't there) I do think sometimes they might need to step in. For example, if there were a child who was bullying all the otehr children on a reuglar basis at the stop something would have to be done so the other kids could safely get to school. Short of serious, on going issues (which might result in teh need to provide bus stop supervision for a while--I think having someone official on sight at the stop is the only legitimate way for the school to then step in and punish kdis for things that happen there) then no, schools should not get to police what happens.

Second issue--this actual incident. Assuming that we are getting the ENTIRE story, then I think everyone has over reacted in a huge way. To a 7 year old the comment about the mother's clothing was equally as mean as the comment made to her about her mother. But, it would not likely have any other significance to her. I doubt the little girl meant to make fun of the other child's religion or really understood that she was. She was simply retaliating to one mean comment with another mean comment. Tit for tat. Honestly I don't think any adults should have gotten invloved at all--let the kids work this out if it was a one time tit for tat thing like it sounds. But, IF adults are going to be involved, it should be so explain to both kids that insulting each other and their moms is not nice and to explain to the little girl why her classmate's mom dresses the way she does (but not be angry at her for not seeing that her comment might have deeper meanings to an adult than to a 7 year old). IF some sort of punishment were to be doeld out it should be to both kids for making mean comments.

 

[golfgal]

Our district handbook clearly states that behavior at the bus stop or on the bus will be dealt with at the school level. They consider the time the kids arrive at the bus stop in the morning to the time they get to their homes after school "school time".

What I can't get over is the MOM that called the school. Grow up lady. A couple of 7 year olds calling their mom's names should be a "well, what did you say to her first" type question and find out what really happened, but then again, too many parents think their child would NEVER do anything wrong.

The other mom WAY over reacted too. Canceling the birthday party. How about we have a talk about feelings and what did she feel like when the other boy called her mom names and then make her apologize to him the next day. Sounds more appropriate to me?

The teacher, well, hard to say since kids can twist stories around. Did she really stay in the hall all morning or was it like 15 minutes that SEEMED like all morning to a 7 year old? Did the other boy get into trouble too?

 

[FireDancer]

The school is responsible for the children during the transport to school if the school provides the transportation. If the bus stop is a school designated bus stop, then the school is responsible for the children while they are there.

I don't care what the school thinks their policy about the bus stop is, my policy is it is none of their business and my policy trumps theirs when not on their property, period. The school designating a bus stop doesn't give them authority over it any more then me designating a corner my property gives me any property rights. I assure you I would have a huge problem if the school got involved in something that happened on the sidewalk across the street let alone at a random corner that happens to be a bus stop.

 

[alexandria674]

That is how I understand it too. The school assigns the child a location to wait for the school bus. The child waits there, whether or not there is a parent there to supervise. The children are technically under the school's care at that point. If a child would get hit by a car while waiting for the bus, people would be screaming that the SCHOOL didn't do enough to protect the child, not the parents. The situation was a school issue not a home issue. If it happened after the child got home from school (sort of like in the PP case) then it is a home issue.

The teacher isn't to blame here - he/she was just doing his/her job.

I agree, however I think this situation should of just involved the parents and the kids should of just apologized to each other. That's it.

But it was the mother who called in the teacher and every school district seems to have different rules about the school bus area. Sure, it was not on the school's property but then again our district makes it clear that from the time that the child is at that designated area in the morning from until they are there at the end of the schoolday, it is technically under the school's jurisdiction and the teacher was well within the right to discipline the student.

As for the student being punished, I don't understand how one kid was punished while the other wasn't, unless this was a repeated case. The birthday party being cancelled was a bit heavy handed unless there were more problems between the kid and the parent.