Was this teacher out of line...?

[golfgal]

I don't care what the school thinks their policy about the bus stop is, my policy is it is none of their business and my policy trumps theirs when not on their property, period. The school designating a bus stop doesn't give them authority over it any more then me designating a corner my property gives me any property rights. I assure you I would have a huge problem if the school got involved in something that happened on the sidewalk across the street let alone at a random corner that happens to be a bus stop.

That is your prerogative however, keep in mind that if something were to happen at the bus stop the school can and will deny transportation to your child. Since the bus stop is a school sponsored activity they have every right to enforce rules there. Your choice to follow them or not but don't expect the school to help you if you are on the receiving end of misbehavior either.

 

[johnsontrio]

LOL, I am a flight attendant! My co-worker is from Memphis! I am in Novi! Hello neighbor!!! We are actually looking for a house in Livonia.
bolding is mine, I messed up the quote feature...


Whew..glad to hear... thought I was crazy or confused for a moment here... I couldn't figure out how a private school would have a school bus and all this going on..since the legislature passed the ruling about schools in Michigan going back after Labor Day, only private schools that don't coordinate with the public school for bus services go back early..

Now that you mention being a flight attendant I remember when you posted about applying for that job...

Our next door neighbor has a "Mac Daddy" custom home going back to the bank...we live in a small older rural area in Livonia with big lots but centrally located. come be our neighbor

 

[ajk912]

"There is a designated SAHM "bus stop mom" who watches all of the kids at the bus stop, so the working moms can "drop and roll" to work, so he kids were not alone."
Who designated her? Maybe she doesn't know that's her role.

Anyway the whole thing seems like some pieces of the story are missing. Canceling a party over that? really I think there might be more going on.

And I'm with C.Ann in that our principal handles the bus issues. Not a teacher.

I agree. And boy does it chap my hide when people try to take advantage of those of us not currently working. I see in the OP's case, bus stop mom doesn't mind, which is awesome!!!

Totally OT..but I get that a lot. I am here to watch MY kids, not your kids. It's rude to drop and roll without clearing it with someone first, especially if your kid isn't behaving (in the case of these girls). A few weeks ago, my neighbor asked me if I was planning on staying for football practice. I said I hadn't decided yet, my son is going to be 10 next month, but I hate to just leave him there. So I asked her, maybe we can switch off watching the boys, so neither of us is stuck on the field every day? She didn't like my answer, I could tell, and quickly changed the subject.

Back to the original post, I do think it's kind of crazy to cancel a bday party over that type of thing. I hope there is more to the story, otherwise, that mom is crazy strict. Because it could be self defense, IMO? What's the girl supposed to do...just stand there and take it?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Most elementary school teachers that I know try to control the actions of their students, in and out of the classroom. Heck, I see them telling kids (that they do not know) to stop running in the store. It seems natural that this teacher would want to punish the girl for her behavior. Where she made her mistake was in not getting all of the facts before passing judgement. I would have held her accountable for that mistake, had this been my child.

I would not have minded the punishment so long as the other child received the same...

 

[Nancyg56]

The children were "on school time" when at the bus stop which is why the teacher got involved. I would have wanted both children punished if there was a verbal altercation, not just one. Forgive me if this was covered, I did not read all of the responses.

 

[PinkRhombus]

Instead of cancelling the party, you would think that your co-worker would take hrr kid out for ice cream for standing up for her.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

Wow...pretty major punishment for a little name calling at the bus stop. I might have started with taking away TV or video games.

I'm sure laws very from state to state but in KY bus stop issues are a school problem. Generally, we have one assistant principal who deals with bus stop/bus issues. Although I would guess (this is only from a teacher's perspective) that this doesn't sound like a big enough issue for a discipline referral. I really keep those to major issues. If these kids had not had any problems before I would have reminded them about how we treat people who are different or at least keep not nice thoughts to yourself...etc. If I had to send kids to the office everytime they said a cross word to each other my classroom door would need a revolving door.

I do think the SAHM should have just called the parents. Although in KY this was legally a school issue--to me telling the teacher first was a waste of instruction time.

 

[Rora]

I do think it is strange that the teacher got involved, and I am a teacher. It could be policy that school bus stops are considered school grounds, but if that is the case then the principal should have handled it and not the teacher.

Melissa

Another teacher checking in! If this happend on school property, then it would be handled by the school. However, it's strange the teacher was involved.

I think Bus stop issues should be handled by parents regardless (unless of course it's serious bullying, fights, etc).

I think it's a little much to cancel the party..

 

[luvmy3]

First off--hi former neighborsWe used to live in Livonia. Still missing the rec. center (which was only a year old when we moved away).

Two issues here. First is what control do/should schools have at the bus stop? This is sort of a gray area for me. I feel like most of the time teh shcool should NOT be involved in what happens at the bus stop--unless they want to go so far as to also provide supervision at the stop. However, (there is always a however isn't there) I do think sometimes they might need to step in. For example, if there were a child who was bullying all the otehr children on a reuglar basis at the stop something would have to be done so the other kids could safely get to school. Short of serious, on going issues (which might result in teh need to provide bus stop supervision for a while--I think having someone official on sight at the stop is the only legitimate way for the school to then step in and punish kdis for things that happen there) then no, schools should not get to police what happens.

Second issue--this actual incident. Assuming that we are getting the ENTIRE story, then I think everyone has over reacted in a huge way. To a 7 year old the comment about the mother's clothing was equally as mean as the comment made to her about her mother. But, it would not likely have any other significance to her. I doubt the little girl meant to make fun of the other child's religion or really understood that she was. She was simply retaliating to one mean comment with another mean comment. Tit for tat. Honestly I don't think any adults should have gotten invloved at all--let the kids work this out if it was a one time tit for tat thing like it sounds. But, IF adults are going to be involved, it should be so explain to both kids that insulting each other and their moms is not nice and to explain to the little girl why her classmate's mom dresses the way she does (but not be angry at her for not seeing that her comment might have deeper meanings to an adult than to a 7 year old). IF some sort of punishment were to be doeld out it should be to both kids for making mean comments.

Well said


I do believe the school is well within their rights to handle bus stop issues, our VP takes care of them at our school. It is usually when things get physical, I don't believe the situation in the OP would have been dealt with the same. Our VP probably would have talked to both students to let them know it wasn't nice and they shouldn't do it again. Of course I don't know any mom who would call the school for such an issues, but apparently they are out there.

 

[allison443]

Better yet, why would a "kids will be kids" kind of every day situation be THAT big of a deal?

Have times changed that much since I was in school?

Why don't you ask your co-worker, since she is the one who cancelled her dd's birthday party for a "kids will be kids" situation?
I agree with you that that is a major punishment for a minor infraction! That to me is more of an overreaction than the teacher.

 

[ckay87]

That is your prerogative however, keep in mind that if something were to happen at the bus stop the school can and will deny transportation to your child. Since the bus stop is a school sponsored activity they have every right to enforce rules there. Your choice to follow them or not but don't expect the school to help you if you are on the receiving end of misbehavior either.

And I can't help thinking that if it's a school-sponsored activity for which they are taking responsibility, they should also be providing supervision, no?

I'm not arguing with you....I believe you actually. But it makes me mad that this is the policy of the schools.

 

[Kathi OD]

The school is responsible for the children during the transport to school if the school provides the transportation. If the bus stop is a school designated bus stop, then the school is responsible for the children while they are there.

At least that's how it was explained to me when I was getting my teaching degree.

Depending on the state, this is true.

That is how I understand it too. The school assigns the child a location to wait for the school bus. The child waits there, whether or not there is a parent there to supervise. The children are technically under the school's care at that point. If a child would get hit by a car while waiting for the bus, people would be screaming that the SCHOOL didn't do enough to protect the child, not the parents. The situation was a school issue not a home issue. If it happened after the child got home from school (sort of like in the PP case) then it is a home issue.

The teacher isn't to blame here - he/she was just doing his/her job.

I don't care what the school thinks their policy about the bus stop is, my policy is it is none of their business and my policy trumps theirs when not on their property, period. The school designating a bus stop doesn't give them authority over it any more then me designating a corner my property gives me any property rights. I assure you I would have a huge problem if the school got involved in something that happened on the sidewalk across the street let alone at a random corner that happens to be a bus stop.

It sure does if you live in Pennsylvania. The school law states the school is responsible door-to-door. The bus and bus stop are, by law, extensions of the school.

That is your prerogative however, keep in mind that if something were to happen at the bus stop the school can and will deny transportation to your child. Since the bus stop is a school sponsored activity they have every right to enforce rules there. Your choice to follow them or not but don't expect the school to help you if you are on the receiving end of misbehavior either.

In many states, riding the school bus is a privilege, which can be denied if a child does not behave properly.

The children were "on school time" when at the bus stop which is why the teacher got involved. I would have wanted both children punished if there was a verbal altercation, not just one. Forgive me if this was covered, I did not read all of the responses.

As I said before, the bus stop is generally considered an extension of the school. The children wouldn't be gathering there if they weren't going to school, and that's why the school got involved.



However, I do think it is odd that the classroom teacher was the one who dealt with the situation. In any school I have been affiliated with, it is an administrator (principal, vice principal) who would have handled the issue.

To me the problem isn't that the school got involved, but the way they handled it. I am more troubled that the school punishment was having the child sit outisde the classroom for the better part of the morning. Who was supervising her? How could she participate in the learning process if she was out in the hall? Much more disturbing than the school getting involved.

As for the parental decision to cancel the birthday party, I personally think that's an over-the-top reaction, but hey....not my kid, not my decision. If that's what those parents' think is appropriate for their child, who am I to say anything different?

 

[MM27]

As a teacher, I would not have gotten involved in something that happened outside of school. And I agree that the comments, as told here, were just words between 7 year olds and shouldn't have gotten a punishment. I certainly wouldn't have taken away a birthday party because of those words.

However, the people that are saying that the bus stop is not within the school's limits of authority, would you expect the school to get involved if it wasn't just words exchanged? What if one of the kids had punched the other? My school doesn't bus kids, but we have had numerous incidents where kids were walking home and got into some sort of trouble and were punished at school for it. I had a student a few years ago that was suspended for 10 days because of an incident on the walk home.

 

[ols386]

It doesn't sound like it should have been a school issue. Sounds like the teacher should not have even been involved. And why did only the one child get in trouble at school? What about the kid that said the other kid's mom was weird and ugly?

I wouldn't punish a child by taking away a birthday celebration. There are many other ways to punish.

 

[dawson5]

my son was assaulted getting off of the bus, in front of the bus operator. The school punished that child (three days in school suspension) but I was not informed of this until two years later. This happened middle of December when he was in 6th grade. I would have been grateful if a teacher would have gotten in touch with me, principal or vice-principal. We now have a different bus driver, my middle son had a spitball hit him in the face (under his eye), his bus driver called to check on him and make sure he was alright and let us know that she would be filing a report with the school about this incident. We've been in the office and watched when bus drivers come in to file reports of incidents happening at the stop or on the bus. I'm thankful they are being proactive, I just wish there was more communication before instead of when things come to a "head."

 

[EMom]

Instead of cancelling the party, you would think that your co-worker would take hrr kid out for ice cream for standing up for her.

I cannot believe you're the only one who mentioned this. A kid insulted his mother. What does a kid with some spirit do? He "yo mama"s right back. I would never have sat back and let someone insult my mother. And if come kid insulted me and DD gave them an earful, I'd be glad she had some spunk and was not a doormat to be bullied. (And that she loved her mommy enough to defend her.)

Unless the kid in question is *%#$ on wheels, he'd probably get an upgraded birthday present from this mommy this year. As for the school, if the #2 end of yo mama got punished, then you'd better bet #1 yo mama should have been punished right along with him. I'd be on a serious rant if my kid was punished for defending me after another child insulted me......especially when he used the exact same tactic as the insulting child who started the whole thing.

 

[agnes!]

*If* we got all the details, I think the mother of the kid who called the teacher over-reacted. BIG-TIME.

And then *if* we got all the details, I also think the teacher over-reacted.

I think it is beyond stupid for adults to get involved with kids' "Yo-Mama's". *NOW* it IS a huge deal. IF the adults had just stayed out of it, the kids would have been fine the next day. But nooooooooooooo, mommy had to call the teacher, didn't she? Congratulations to the Mommy, you've probably just set up years of bad feelings between the two kids and between two families.

It was GOSSIP after all, a bunch of she-said, she-saids.

Way to go.
agnes!

 

[Chuck S]

So the school system leaves children unattended? Back in the day, whatever you did before you got on the bus and after you got off the bus was your business. I can't imagine the school districts assuming responsibility for kids who have to walk blocks from a bus stop to a home as I had to when I was young.

Any who, back to the original post...if one was punished BOTH should have been and if I were the mother of the child who was punished I would have been livid if the other child did not receive the same punishment. but you did not post that info.

Is the other kids mom the one who is the bus stop monitor?

Unfortunately, legally they are resposible. If a child is injured walking to/from school or at a bus stop, the school's insurance has to cover it. It's been that way for years.

 

[agnes!]

my son was assaulted getting off of the bus, in front of the bus operator. The school punished that child (three days in school suspension) but I was not informed of this until two years later. This happened middle of December when he was in 6th grade. I would have been grateful if a teacher would have gotten in touch with me, principal or vice-principal. We now have a different bus driver, my middle son had a spitball hit him in the face (under his eye), his bus driver called to check on him and make sure he was alright and let us know that she would be filing a report with the school about this incident. We've been in the office and watched when bus drivers come in to file reports of incidents happening at the stop or on the bus. I'm thankful they are being proactive, I just wish there was more communication before instead of when things come to a "head."

It might not seem fair to the person assaulted, but the school is actually not allowed to tell people outside the child's family about any school suspensions, etc. Back when my DD was in grade school a boy hit my DD on the playground leaving a fairly-sizable bruise. The only reason we knew he had gotten suspended was because he wasn't in class for a couple of days, but administrators and teachers were not allowed to divulge any details of how they dealt with this kid.

agnes!

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

I don't think it is so much that the school wanted or felt compelled to take responsibility for bus stop issues but through a series of court cases the laws have been established. I took a school law course as a graduate student and it was quite an eye-opener! It is my understanding that basically the courts have set precedent on where school boundaries begin and end.

As an educator I disagree with this for exactly the reason that a pp mentioned. If you establish the bus stop as school property than the next logically question is--shouldn't supervision be required? And then the nightmare begins! Supervise every student until they get to there door? My first year of teaching I was a "personal aide" to an emotionally disordered student. 16 years ago the school system paid me $9.72 an hour to meet a school bus, ride to student's house, pick him up at his door and ride with him to school. We repeated the process in the afternoon. It was about an hour and half of pay each way because I was paid for my time to travel to school to meet the bus. By my calculations this was about $5,000 for the school year (again 16 years ago!).

OT--but we continue to ask public education to be everything to everybody and it makes us good at nothing

After reading still agree with pp--if all the information has been given--massive overreaction on part of SAHM at bus stop, the teacher and the mom that canceled party. The only way I can think that either one of them didn't overreact is if this had been an ongoing problem.