Was Anyone Else As Stupid As Us (and probably 1/2 of my neighbors)

Saw the thread about Expensive Financial Mistakes and wanted to post about my own (but not under my personal account, for semi-obvious reasons).

We decided to purchase our new home in the summer of 2022 after we sold our house in 2020 and tried to "wait out" the madness for over a year. We bought new construction in a wonderful development and are actually happy with our house. Here's the problem, though...

I've basically had to admit to ourselves that we probably bought at the top of the market, and even worse, our builder talked us into a 5-Year ARM, so we would have affordable payments. When our 5 years are up at 4.25% (in 2027), this loan will adjust to 8%, based on today's rates, which we actually can't afford. We could afford up to about 6% before we would be unable to afford the payments, based on my calculations. That also assumes that nothing (like our insurance) goes way up.

Ironically, one of my close neighbors, who is actually a CPA 😲, brought up to me that she bought her house on a temporary buydown from the builder. Her mortgage is temporary at a 3% rate, which will step up to 4%, 5%, and then 6% fixed rate after 3 years. She told me she had been confidently told that rates would come down before the 3 years were up, and she could refinance.

This conversation brought up a string of conversations at a recent pool party when I realized that more than a handful of my neighbors are in the exact same boat. Some of them took out 3-Year Loans that will Adjust. Some took the buydown with the intention of refinancing, and some are just planning to sell their house before the 3 or 5 years are up. Apparently, a lot of us took the special financing deal from our builder, not realizing how most of us are screwed if ideal scenarios do not work out.

I am now thinking to myself, with a lot of confidence, that impending doom is upon me. I also personally believe that the housing boom is mostly over. And lastly, I cannot get over the fact that so many people (including me) could have been so foolish in our decision-making. It doesn't seem like any of us thought too far ahead into the future.

So... that's me. I am in a brand new subdivision of almost 130 homes, and I am seriously convinced we will eventually lose most of our down payment now. Definitely an example of a financial mistake.

The real question is, though - how many more people like me and our neighborhood are out there? Are there hundreds or thousands of us? Tens of thousands? I wonder now.
 
or a vested interest in simply being able to maintain a sustainable living environment due to natural resources. one major change in housing in my state was implemented because the demand for housing had developers buying up large swaths of rural land that were in close proximity to cities with jobs to build housing devolpments HOWEVER the need for water to those tracts of homes began to deplete the waters that fed existing rural homes such that it endangered their existance (and the future existance of the tract homes). legislation was implemented that mandated anyone who proposed to build to do environmental studies to determine water needs and it's impact-as a result much less building (cost primarily but also the reality of limited resources).






despite what the powers that be say about the availability of internet in rural areas it is not reality. topography, geology and population play a large part in what if any options rural homeowners have. i am less than 15 miles from the 2nd largest city in my state but b/c of the mountains and trees and abundance of rock we jokingly say that we grow in abundance-our internet options for years have been limited to either (1) an agonizingly slow landline phone company (that has not taken new customers in several years due to outdate/overloaded equipment and costs outweighing profits) or (2) cell phone data at horrific costs (and spotty at best due to weather esp. in winter months). we were on almost a 2 year waitlist and finally got starlink which has been a godsend but costly with upwards of $2000 in initial equipment and $120 per month for service. when covid hit and schools were shut down the reality of lack of internet became more apparant b/c distance learning had to be accomplished in some neighborhoods by having district staff drive and set up mobile hotspots for parents to drive their kids to in order to sit in their cars and do their classes.


living rural is the more expensive option in our area these days-remote work caused an explosion in the number of people who thought it was less expensive to live 'in the sticks' and as a result drove our housing prices through the roof and beyond-tripling values on existing homes, quadrupling and more for ready to build bare land. the large city near us saw large increases in prices but nothing compared to us-and they have much less expensive (and multiple competing options) for garbage, internet and other basic services in addition to NOT having the addtional expenses of road maintainance (not on the county's dollar here-it's on us).
Certainly something you would consider before buying the house there. Sort of like with the pandemic, my company sent us home to work in March 2020 assuming we all had internet at home. An amazing number of employees had no internet at home, no computer. Their only internet access was at work, and they did all their online shopping at work, hopefully on the breaks.
 
Certainly something you would consider before buying the house there. Sort of like with the pandemic, my company sent us home to work in March 2020 assuming we all had internet at home. An amazing number of employees had no internet at home, no computer. Their only internet access was at work, and they did all their online shopping at work, hopefully on the breaks.

back when internet was still fairly new the bulk of my staff had none at home so they routinely did personal tasks on it at work. i remember getting a call from our department's it staff cautioning me that one staff member had an abundance of time logged in and they were concerned it could be 'inappropriate usage' and might necessitate a review of her site accessing. i assured them there was nothing to worry about but if they wanted to do a review they would find it to be 99% attributable to mcdonalds b/c her desk was right outside my office and i knew that while she was working she was also constantly checking to see which local mcdonalds had the hottest beanie baby happy meal in stock:p
 
back when internet was still fairly new the bulk of my staff had none at home so they routinely did personal tasks on it at work. i remember getting a call from our department's it staff cautioning me that one staff member had an abundance of time logged in and they were concerned it could be 'inappropriate usage' and might necessitate a review of her site accessing. i assured them there was nothing to worry about but if they wanted to do a review they would find it to be 99% attributable to mcdonalds b/c her desk was right outside my office and i knew that while she was working she was also constantly checking to see which local mcdonalds had the hottest beanie baby happy meal in stock:p
Yes, the dark, scary dangerous Internet. In about 1994 the company I worked for allowed ONE computer to have Internet access. It was in a very public area, where everyone could see the screen. There was a clipboard there and you had to log every website you went to and why with the boss warning anyone caught looking at porn would get fired. We were doing an interview with Catherine Oxenberg when she joined the cast of the show Dynasty. The boss said, "let's see what information we can find about her on the Internet" So the boss types "Catherine Oxenberg" in the search box and the first thing that came up was a photo of her, totally naked. Yup, the first violation of the bosses rule, was the boss!
Not just internet, about 5 years ago I was assigned the task of talking to every employee to verify that all our contact phone numbers for them were correct. No surprisingly, I purged a lot of landline numbers that had been disconnected, but I was surprised at how many employees with company phones, had no other phone of any kind. Mind you I worked in an industry where it is now common for people to only stay for 2 or 3 years. I asked one person what they did in between jobs. He said, " I just buy a $29 pay as you go phone to use when I am between jobs and between company phones"
 
" I just buy a $29 pay as you go phone to use when I am between jobs and between company phones"

for years i refused to buy cell phones with a plan b/c we would only have a need when we vacationed so initially i bought long distance gift cards that i would use on either hotel in room or pay phones. next for us was a couple of burners i could get for about $20 each and a couple of gift cards for minutes.
 
for years i refused to buy cell phones with a plan b/c we would only have a need when we vacationed so initially i bought long distance gift cards that i would use on either hotel in room or pay phones. next for us was a couple of burners i could get for about $20 each and a couple of gift cards for minutes.
Us too ! And when we finally did get cell phones we would lock them in the room safe when we arrived at Disney and leave them there all week.
I miss that .
 
I'm in Canada. Fixed rate is only locked in for so many years, typically 3 or 5 in my area. Sometimes you can get 7, but they're considerably more expensive and generally it's not worth it. Then at the end of the term, you lock in for another set amount of time. So maybe typically you have a 20 year mortgage with say 4 terms, as an example. When you renew, I believe you can gamble on how long to lock in for. Or maybe the first time you do 5, the second 3, whatever... it's all a guess around what you think rates will do.

this whole concept is facinating to me. so do you have to go through an entire new/updated loan qualification for each term? if so and this was the norm for the u.s. i have to wonder how many homeowners would find themselves unable to re-qualify at those renewals-it is not unusual at all for a prospective home buyers in the u.s. to approach a purchase having reduced their consumer debt to the minimum and reduced spending to demonstrate the best debt to income ratio possible. after buying a house......seems like many revert to old habits or worse-if their property values increase they draw for their equity to create further debt. then you have those who just through the natural course of things have life changes that can make a double income/no kids couple much more mortgage desireable to a lender vs the same couple a handful of years down the line presenting as single income/1 stay at home parent with kid(s).
 
This thread has kind of gone off the rails from the OP's question, but I do want to answer some others



I'm not sure in the US, but in my area of Canada that's going away. Besides people migrating to "cheaper" places and driving costs up, rural internet tends to be terrible, and old school CEOs are trying to force everyone back to the office. One business here just fired all the remote workers that weren't willing to relocate to driving distance of the office to come in every day. Another CEO of a local company was recorded in a conference call saying "I can't wait until we do away with all the work from home s*** and everyone will get back to work". That company has made their highest profits in history since work from home started.
First of all, their are no "rails". A thread is called a thread because it wanders all over the place.

As for remote work, man it is ALL over the place in the U.S. My son's office......doesn't even have an office anymore. The let the lease expire January 1, 2021 and everyone is remote. They had their first in person meeting in 3 years a couple of weeks ago. Many employees have scattered across the country, so the company paid to fly them in, rent cars and hotel rooms, and had to rent a conference room at a hotel. But the boss says the amount of money they are saving in unbelievable.
My daughter's place ordered everyone back in the building by June 30. Now they are trying to sort out the unemployment claims from those who refused.
 
First of all, their are no "rails". A thread is called a thread because it wanders all over the place.

As for remote work, man it is ALL over the place in the U.S. My son's office......doesn't even have an office anymore. The let the lease expire January 1, 2021 and everyone is remote. They had their first in person meeting in 3 years a couple of weeks ago. Many employees have scattered across the country, so the company paid to fly them in, rent cars and hotel rooms, and had to rent a conference room at a hotel. But the boss says the amount of money they are saving in unbelievable.
My daughter's place ordered everyone back in the building by June 30. Now they are trying to sort out the unemployment claims from those who refused.
This is a contributing factor in the coming commercial real estate crisis.
 
All I'm trying to say is that you can't count on remote being an option, and you can't count on the remote job staying remote. Like everything else these days, it's not simple. Some people I know were told one thing in interviews and when they went to sign contracts saw that it said something different. You really have to watch it.
You may be right, but right now my crystal ball is pretty foggy on remote work.
Like I posted my former employer is now dealing with the reality of their mandate having to pay unemployment. There already have been forced to resume offering to cover relocation something corporate hasn't allowed in 20 years. And with the tight job market, salary expectations from job applicants have been exceeding the salaries of positions above the level they are applying for. Which it explains why some jobs have remained vacant for two years, and why getting a new hire to stay more than two years can be a challenge.
 
Hey, OP, we all do the best we can with what we have (or know) at the time. I HATE typing but I want you to know that you are so not alone.
This is my story. I got married the first time (I make lots of mistakes but I survive) in 1989. My soon to be husband's new employer went on strike. He took a blue collar job in a supermarket. Youngest ever to earn the "keys" in the company's history. We moved into my grandparent's house that already had a second Italian kitchen, living room, bathroom and they built a bedroom in the attic.

Obviously that situation deteriorated when my grandmother accused my best friend's mother of calling to complain that I called her son too much. He and I remained the very best friends for 36 years until the election before last but I digress as I will continue to do. Obviously, his mother did no such thing for so many reasons - I don't have time. Grammy just disapproved of a married woman having a male friend.

SOooo, DH and I bought a house. Our fathers spent a year remodeling it. 10% interest at the time in 1990. Also after some infertility stuff that almost killed/maimed my fetus, I was pregnant with our first child to be.

One day while remodeling, I saw something on the wall paper. I touched it and my hand went ALL THE WAY TO THE EXTERIOR SIDING. I called the home inspector - we had termites, dry rot, water leaks. What I didn't know was the actual owners were the grandparents of a famous lawyer/politician in our state. There was no remedy to chase down, back then. By the end of my last career, I had way more political juice than he did and worked directly for the Judges and with the Bar. LESSON: Things can change for the better and don't let someone who mostly had luck, not incredible intellect, beat you up for how you are feeling. They just hate themselves because they know they were lucky. If they had such a crystal ball to predict the market, they would own at Golden Oaks at the least.

I did find some kind real estate lawyer just by calling everyone, that guided me into a different mortgage that dropped my monthly $1050 in 1990(!) to $486. Sounds awesome, right? It was for a little bit of time There is a LESSON: try everything to find a different way.

When the market changed in 1993ish, home places dropped like stones and my marginal old Italian neighborhood fell to the druggies. Dead OD's or beaten bodies turned up nearly every day. Rats over ran the streets. A man tried to steal my parent's car (parked while they are on vacation) from my fenced in driveway. I would leave my children locked in the car (I can see the helicopter moms passing out at that :rotfl2: ) until I made it to the door to let out my two dogs before I unstrapped them from their car seats. (my mother or someone knew I was traveling and expected a call so if I did get killed, someone would get the babies out - maybe - if they weren't shot, stabbed, whatever LESSON: Always have two ferocious giant dogs.
with you at all times. People didn't have guns like they do now. Seriously, get out before it gets to that.

I did everything to sell that house (called charities, called lawyers, real estate agents, offered stays at The Vacation Club as a bonus for buying) as the value plummeted to where I would have to take a 60K loss in 1994. Finally, a very kind real estate lawyer, (and this was all before my career that would put me in the path of these heroes - yes lawyers are heroes to me - I love them), told me to declare bankruptcy. He said not to worry about nosy people who thought they were entitled to have an opinion when corporations and banks did this **** all of the time for BILLIONS. He told me to get my children OUT OF THERE!! Those that have been brainwashed to think they somehow paid for my bankruptcy personally but have no problem with what ENRON did and so many others including the housing and bank crisies, but didn't touch the golden parachutes are delusional. Ignore them. Giving them attention is like trying to reason with a toddler in the candy aisle.

I planned it methodically; moved to a rental where I stayed for 10 years before buying my second home. Had I not chosen to get divorced, I would have had the 2nd. home earlier. My Grandparents wanted to put up the new down payment but my father (will keep this lower case), the only child, threw a tantrum claiming it was HIS inheritance being spent on me - their only Granddaughter - his daughter and the mother of his only Grandchildren. LESSON: Don't listen to people that don't have your best interests at heart. Let them keep their politics out of your life and body (sorry).

In the end - it all worked out. The final straw for me was the day I came home and my 4 year old Son's little red Tyco car and my two year old Daughter's blue minivan were stolen. How I wished my beloved dogs knew how to open the door back then like the ones I owned at my second house did... Also, school was coming for DS. LESSON: Do what is best now for YOUR future and ignore what everyone else says because you are not actually hurting them. Dump the house if you have too, who cares? Just plan it carefully under the advice of a qualified attorney that practices in whatever you decide. They can and will save you every time.

Also - I got married so early at 22 and was ill prepared financially to escape the house of horrors I grew up in. Now I have an incredible life and career and 1600 DVC points (might have to sell off a few after a whirlwind of life changes) but hey, we are always evolving. I was just as much lucky as I was smart. LESSON: One more time - don't let jerks bring you down. Scroll right on by. Listen to people that have actual helpful advice and don't spew vile.

The very best of luck to you!
 
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I've basically had to admit to ourselves that we probably bought at the top of the market, and even worse, our builder talked us into a 5-Year ARM, so we would have affordable payments. When our 5 years are up at 4.25% (in 2027), this loan will adjust to 8%, based on today's rates, which we actually can't afford. We could afford up to about 6% before we would be unable to afford the payments, based on my calculations. That also assumes that nothing (like our insurance) goes way up.
Okay, so you messed up. Instead of beating yourself up, you have to figure out how to work with what you have:
- You have four years at a decent rate. Start looking into refinancing now. As you say, lots of people fell into this trap, so you'd be smart to jump now rather to wait for everyone else to figure out they're in trouble.
- Do you have a pre-payment penalty on this loan? If you pay extra each month, will it go straight to principle? Verify that, then -- if circumstances are what you'd want -- pay more each month. No, it's not easy, but it'll get you paid off faster.
- Sounds like you're living close to the financial edge, so look for ways you can cut back: cut out streaming /subscriptions that you're not really using, cut back on groceries and eating out, don't buy new clothes, cut back vacation plans -- for example, stay in a cheaper hotel, choose a destination to which you can drive.
- Or add more income to your household. Look into part-time jobs.
- Do not dip into your 401K or retirement savings; that's extremely expensive, as it will cost you penalties and add to your taxes -- and you'd be creating another problem for yourself down the road.
- The worst thing you can do is nothing. Seriously, you're saying you can't afford this house if your interest rate goes up, so don't just sit back wringing your hands hoping for a break. Create some luck by making good choices.
I'm guessing you are younger than me. When my older sister bought her first house, the mortgage rate was around 13.5%. Yep. Fixed rate.
Yep, we bought our first house when we married in 1990, and we were just a little less than that. It forced us to buy less than we technically could have afforded, and it motivated us to pay off sooner rather than later.
Put this down as Mistake #2. When we first visited the Sales Office, we were asked if we had a Realtor. When we said No, we were told we would get a better deal if we were unrepresented. So... we did just that. You are probably correct, we would have been better of.
Lesson learned. When someone is making money off of you, be wary of what they tell you.
Apparently other people around him keep sending him articles on how ARMs will help him afford a house and even people at work are telling him to just get an ARM to get the house he wants. Yikes.
Yeah, and leasing a car lets you "drive more car than you could otherwise afford", but free lunches don't exist. This type of "creative financing" is just kicking the can down the road. Paying today and making moderate choices are better long-term choices.
I have around 9 years left until I'm eligible for Medicare. I'd like those last 4-5 years to be part time. It seems like it would be a nice compromise between having income and still having extra time to care for myself, exercise, and have a more robust social life than what I currently have time to do.
Definitely yes! That's where I am right now. I've retired from full-time teaching, and I'm working 3 days a week as a permanent substitute. It's a nice balance.
Life is short. No one ever looks back on their life saying, "If only I had spent more time at work."
No, but people do say on their deathbeds, "I wish I were leaving my wife with a paid-off house. I wish I weren't leaving her debt. I wish I were leaving the kids a bit of money."
True, but there's nothing like the feeling of being 100% debt free.
Definitely yes! I grew up in poverty, and we were never sure about food, clothing, and other necessities. I never had reason to feel that tomorrow would be better than today, so I place a high value on feeling secure.
My PMI is less than $50 a month. I just double checked. It’s 29.08! Thank the stars!
Okay, so your PMI is low, but it's still money down the toilet. It protects the lender, not you -- you yourself will never, ever get a single penny back from that PMI. As soon as you're able to get rid of it, do so!

But I get what you're saying: you have to look at the big picture. If paying less on your mortgage /keeping PMI allows you to pay into a high-interest retirement account, it might be worthwhile.
No, not necessarily.

You don’t have the money if you’re also going into credit card debt every month, which many homeowners do.
Yes, I figured out pretty young that not everyone who LOOKS flush with cash actually is.

I have sat around the lunch table at work plenty of times hearing my wealthy-looking friends count down the number of days until pay day ... or talk about how they must conserve the miles on their car or pay more when they "turn in their lease". They probably look at me buying used clothing, sharing a small car with my husband, living in a modest house and have no idea we are saving, saving, saving.
 
If refinancing is not an option, depending on what your downpayment was, could you try to do something else to 'bide time' until refinancing becomes a possibility or you can sell the house for enough to get your investment back? I don't know how much we're talking, in terms of your mortgage increase, but maybe someone in your household could take on a part-time job to bank money for the time that the rates will go up?

Financial literacy REALLY needs to be taught more often in school because you CANNOT trust banks to help you decide what's best for you. They don't really know the meaning of that concept. They sell whatever is best for them, which is why we ended up with the subprime mortgage crisis (my job for a solid year was to study that event and its impact on the company I was working for). ARMs sound like a great option to many people because we generally have an optimistic view of our earning potential and we desperately want that dream house in the near term, when it is affordable. But banks offer ARMs because more often than not it doesn't go that way and they end up with your downpayment, principal paid, interest, AND they own the asset when you default.

Banking and insurance are two of the biggest scams perpetrated on consumers and, IMO, in desperate need of MUCH more regulation than they get because we will definitely end up in another 2008 scenario again. Not enough people went to actual prison to make it a lasting lesson.

I'm sorry you are going through this, OP. I hope you are able to work something out.
 












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