Warren Jeffs found GUILTY

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I have mixed feelings on the mothers.

On the one hand, I completely agree that they have participated in a horrendous crime, but on the other hand, they themselves are victims. They've been raised in this twisted way, and all their lives they've been fed on lies. They've been kept away from the outside world. I read somewhere that some of the women genuinely believe that their cult leader is the president of the US, they've been told about various "laws" that supposedly keep them enslaved, and they've been told lots of other lies that've convinced them that they'd be killed (or worse) if they leave the compound. Likewise, they've been taught that their leaders are almost gods, and they must submit to their every whim.

So I just don't know about the mothers. Raised in that odd situation for generation after generation -- how could they do any better? As I said, I have mixed feelings on the mothers.

I do not believe for one minute that these mothers are so uneducated and out of the loop of life that they think Warren Jeffs or his Uncle Roulon are the President of the United States. These are women that KNOW having sex with a 12 yr old is wrong.

I have read several books by women who were young girls trapped under Warren Jeffs and these girls cry to their mothers begging them not to have to marry these old men and have sex with them. The mothers know it is wrong and the young girls forced to do it know it is wrong. Too many of them were forced into marriage at a young age and have since escaped them and wrote books about it. They are not mentally challenged. They know right from wrong. They are not living on another planet. This is Earth. This is the USA. They know what's going on.

 

[Aisling]

I have mixed feelings on the mothers.

On the one hand, I completely agree that they have participated in a horrendous crime, but on the other hand, they themselves are victims.

I agree they're victims. But they committed a crime by being active accomplices and participants to rape. They have to be punished. They have to be stopped. Their beliefs don't matter. They don't know any better, but oh well. They'll learn while they're in jail. The other inmates who are mothers will help then learn.

 

[MrsPete]

I do not believe for one minute that these mothers are so uneducated and out of the loop of life that they think Warren Jeffs or his Uncle Roulon are the President of the United States. These are women that KNOW having sex with a 12 yr old is wrong.

I have read several books by women who were young girls trapped under Warren Jeffs and these girls cry to their mothers begging them not to have to marry these old men and have sex with them. The mothers know it is wrong and the young girls forced to do it know it is wrong. Too many of them were forced into marriage at a young age and have since escaped them and wrote books about it. They are not mentally challenged. They know right from wrong. They are not living on another planet. This is Earth. This is the USA. They know what's going on.

I don't know. For one thing, they said on TV tonight that since people don't go in and out of the compound, inbreeding is a problem -- the reporter said that a surprising number of people in the compound were in wheelchairs or used walkers, and that many of them clearly "weren't right". Throw in the idea that the women can't leave the compound freely, and you've got a mess of ignorance going on.

Sure, the people who left are going to say that they knew it was wrong, but that surely doesn't mean they all are as aware. I only know what I've heard in the media, but I don't have the impression that those women know much of ANYTHING.

I agree they're victims. But they committed a crime by being active accomplices and participants to rape. They have to be punished. They have to be stopped. Their beliefs don't matter. They don't know any better, but oh well. They'll learn while they're in jail. The other inmates who are mothers will help then learn.

Oh, I totally agree that they have to be stopped -- but I don't think these women live in the same America that we live in. I can't see jail time for them -- these never-been-out-alone victim-types don't really need to rub shoulders with real criminals. They don't need to be beatten up or exposed to drugs. They need rehabilitation, and I don't think we really have an appropriate place for them.

 

[robinb]

As the parent of a little girl who will be 12 in just two weeks ... just a few weeks younger than one of his "wives" ... I hope he rots in jail for the rest of his life and then goes directly to hell. I wish I could be a little bird at his judgement day just to see his face when he learns his fate.

 

[Aisling]

They need rehabilitation, and I don't think we really have an appropriate place for them.

They should definitely go to jail. They have to see that what they have done is a crime. A minimum security prison with non-violent offenders would be a good place. Hopefully the group of ex-FLDS members will visit them and provide them with some enlightenment. They must be taken out of that FLDS community. Jail time will be the best thing that ever happened to them.

 

[NotUrsula]

What do you think this means? I wonder if it means he really believes he's the Prophet and thought he'd get off through God's intervention? Does it means he's crazy and didn't realize how serious the charges against him were? Does it mean he's an arrogant, defiant SOB who wants to shove it to the system by standing up for himself?

I can't figure this guy out. I just know he makes me sick and I'm so happy he has been stopped.

One question, can he make a motion for an appeal since he's representing himself??

Well, he can make a motion for appeal under any circumstances; the question is whether or not it will be granted. Capital convictions generate an automatic appeal. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that in TX a "sexual assault" conviction probably does not. (TX isn't known for the leniency of its criminal code.)

The thing about Jeffs is that he is ignorant. He's intelligent, and VERY wily, but he never even finished high school, and before he gained control of the church he was a hs teacher/principal in a town the church owns.

AFAICT, the whole "child bride" thing really did not become normal for the FLDS until his father Rulon Jeffs took control of the FLDS in 1986. I suspect that Warren's pedophile tendencies came to him straight from "Uncle Rulon" as part of that near-vertical family tree situation.

If you look at photos of the "Short Creek Raid" in 1953 (the first large-scale government action against the FLDS), you'll see that while a lot of the moms look young by modern standards, they are not as outrageously young as they are now. The women then also didn't wear the "uniforms" that they do today. (http://history.utah.gov/research_and_collections/photos/short_creek.html) It's my understanding that the Jeffs' men instituted much stricter controls when they took over, *and* that they started expelling younger men and boys from the community at a much higher rate than before.

BTW, the genetic disability that is rampant in the FLDS community is a very rare condition called Fumarase deficiency. There are only about 90 recorded cases in the entire world, but around 20 of them are in the families of FLDS members. Jeffs and his minions have made it their mission to insist that doctors are mistaken when they try to tell parents that it is the result of marriage between cousins. If they would hide and deny something like that from their followers, I don't imagine that they are going to be getting the truth about Jeffs' trial in Texas, either.

FWIW, the age at which one can get married with parental consent is presently 15 in Utah and 16 in Texas. However, both states allowed 14 yo girls to marry with parental consent up until about 10 years ago, and a lot of unofficial online sources erroneously still list 14 as the legal age of marital consent in those states.

 

[Aisling]

BTW, the genetic disability that is rampant in the FLDS community is a very rare condition called Fumarase deficiency.

This is very interesting. I looked this up and have a lot to read.

 

[MrsPete]

They should definitely go to jail. They have to see that what they have done is a crime. A minimum security prison with non-violent offenders would be a good place. Hopefully the group of ex-FLDS members will visit them and provide them with some enlightenment. They must be taken out of that FLDS community. Jail time will be the best thing that ever happened to them.

The ex-FLDS would be just the people to help them -- IF they'd listen.

You know how generational welfare families just don't consider that education can get them out of their situation, can't see that work is better than poverty, can't see another way to live? I suspect these women are similar: For GENERATIONS they've been taught that subservency is a woman's life, this is the proper way to live. And beliefs that're taught early are hard to overcome.

AFAICT, the whole "child bride" thing really did not become normal for the FLDS until his father Rulon Jeffs took control of the FLDS in 1986. I suspect that Warren's pedophile tendencies came to him straight from "Uncle Rulon" as part of that near-vertical family tree situation.

Beyond his pedophile tendencies, which I don't doubt a bit, the whole child-bride thing plays into his political agenda too: He'd had some women "escape" his compound, and they'd brought unwelcome attention to his sick little kingdom. How to prevent others from doing the same thing? One sure-fire method: Get 'em pregnant as soon as they hit puberty. It's hard enough for one of them to get out by herself. They're less likely to leave if it means leaving their child behind.

BTW, the genetic disability that is rampant in the FLDS community is a very rare condition called Fumarase deficiency.

Interesting. I googled this, and it's a horrible, debilitating condition. I read that Jeff's community considers this a "test" from God, and that they PREFER marrying within their extended family because they think that their blood is "pure"; thus, they will not accept outsiders. Guess they don't take Biology 101. The article I read compared him to Hitler, devoted to the idea of breeding a "pure" elite race.

Interesting, too, that this community would accept the word of a high school drop-out over that of doctors. It just shows the extent of their brainwashing; with evidence right in front of their faces, they choose to believe this lunatic.

FWIW, the age at which one can get married with parental consent is presently 15 in Utah and 16 in Texas. However, both states allowed 14 yo girls to marry with parental consent up until about 10 years ago, and a lot of unofficial online sources erroneously still list 14 as the legal age of marital consent in those states.

But it doesn't matter because he didn't LEGALLY MARRY these girls. They're his "spiritual wives". Although his splinter-church cult accepts the marriages as valid, the child-brides (and their hapless children) enjoy none of the legal protections that come from actually being married to the father of your children. Of course, this doesn't hurt them as long as they remain within the community, but it's just another way to keep the women held captive.