Waiting to board our plane and....

Maybe you should try reading the thread to see what the actual discussion has been about.

^^This. If you have read all 25 pages you would know that pretty much everyone has no issues with not eating peanuts and would refrain. Most of it is a discussion about what happens if someone brought a peanut butter snack with them to eat to ward off any medical issues and then be told at the gate they could not eat it on board. It's actually a very interesting and civilized discussion considering it's the big peanut debate. :flower1:

I guess the point I'm getting to is if some of the peanut dust from the first flight might still be contained in the air system during the second flight? So even if everyone on the second flight follows the "no peanut" request, there might still be peanut residue that could affect someone who is allergic? I'm not referring to that being cleaned up by wiping down the immediate seating area.

I had stated upthread that I was on a plane once from Orlando to Manchester. We did a stop and go in Nashville. No plane change. So it would be interesting how the leg from Nashville to Manchester would be handled if someone boarding had a peanut allergy, and they informed the gate agent upon arrival.
 
I guess the point I'm getting to is if some of the peanut dust from the first flight might still be contained in the air system during the second flight? So even if everyone on the second flight follows the "no peanut" request, there might still be peanut residue that could affect someone who is allergic? I'm not referring to that being cleaned up by wiping down the immediate seating area.

You're never going to be 100%. The airplane does get fresh air on the ground when doors are opened -- and catering opens a second door other than the boarding door.

We do the best we can with the time and tools provided.
 
I just don't see how I diminished others by saying they can try to get an alternative snack through the crew or eat their peanut product if they needed to. To me, it seemed as if I was accommodating all.


Others have had this discussion, no need to go over it again.
 
I am an adult with anaphylaxis-level allergies to peanuts, tree nuts, seafood (all fish, all shellfish), and milk. All were discovered the "hard way" and all have had multiple anaphylactic reactions in the past (either before we figured out what the cause was and/or after through accidental exposure). The seafood allergy is airborne. The peanut allergy is airborne if there is enough airborne peanut dust (e.g. the time I went to a steakhouse not knowing that the peanut allergy was airborne; the steakhouse had peanut shells all over the floor; the reaction took about 20 minutes to start).

I have to travel for work, and I choose to travel for personal trips, including vacations. Often times, that involves flying.

In Canada, by regulation, Canadian airlines are required to provide certain accommodations to passengers with a peanut/tree nut allergy if the airlines receives at least 48 hours notice. This includes a buffer zone of rows around the passenger in which peanut/tree nut products will not be served, the passengers will be briefed and request not to consume items containing peanut/tree nuts. This is the link to the press release from the Canadian Transportation Agency regarding the direction that was provided to the airlines ( https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/direc...e-travellers-disabled-peanut-or-nut-allergies ) . it also contains links to some relevant prior decisions, which get into some technical and scientific discussion about allergens, aircraft air circulation, etc.

In practice, I found found of the three Canadian airlines that I fly on (WestJet, Air Canada, and Porter) that the airline by its own policy will also allow passengers to pre-board so they can wipe down their seating area.

On WestJet, each time I have flown the head flight attendant has asked about my peanut/tree nut allergy, including if it is airborne. i explain the circumstance in which it was. The flight attendant EVERY TIME has asked if I would be ok with them making a plane-wide announcement asking people not to consume peanuts and tree nuts. The first time I was asked, I said I didn't know if that was necessary. The flight attendant replied that they would prefer to do it to reduce the risk. So I said yes. The next times I said yes when asked if it was ok they did that, since I understood the rationale.

This is what I do to keep myself safe/mitigate the risk when I fly:

I notify the airline shortly after purchasing my ticket, usually the same day or the day after. For the Canadian airlines, depending which airline, when you explain you have a ticket and you have a peanut/tree nut allergy, you either continue to deal with the (trained) customer service person, or you are transferred to the airline's Medical Services desk. Either way I have been asked the same questions. I am asked what the allergy is to (e.g. is it just peanuts, or both ?), how severe it is, do I carry Epipens. The airline will assign me a seat if one hasn't already been selected/assigned. They discuss with me whether I need or want to pre-board. They remind me to make sure I carry Epipens with me on the plane. I let them know I will be wearing a mask on the plane. All of this info is noted in my passenger file, and the airline sets certain flags on my reservations, including medical requirement to pre-board and that I have a P/TN allergy and require a buffer zone.

So, for example, for my December 2015 flights on WestJet, I purchased the tickets in February. Within a week of buying the tickets I called WestJet and notified them of the allergy.

What does NOT happen is other passengers being notified before the flight. that is an airline issue and I am not aware of any that do that; I would suspect as another poster suggested that the airlines will only do what they are regulated to. Case in point, the CTA has to regulate the canadian airines to accommodate those with severe P/TN allergies; as you can see from the decisions, Air Canada fought but lost.

None of the three Canadian airlines I have flown make gate announcements. Any announcements are done while on the plane. For the buffer zone, those rows are told after the flight crew give the emergency briefing to the exit row passengers. I know for a fact that two of the airlines policies is that if someone in the buffer zone then says they want to have P/TN food, then the airline relocates that person outside the buffer zone -- the allergic passenger stays put. If the plane-wide announcement is done, it is usually at the end of the plane-wide emergency briefing. Westjet actually has a recording they use for the emergency briefing, and they just program the thing to add the P/TN request at the end (it is also a recording).

Flying with US airlines is more difficult because they are not required to, and most do not, accommodate. For now I would only fly a US airline if I had no choice, and I would be careful which airline I fly. I will pick Canadian airline itineraries to the US that are entirely on the Canadian airline, even if it costs more or the times are not as convenient or it means connections (including ones halfway across the country) instead of direct flights. I have enough points on a US airline right now for two free first class tickets but cannot use them because that airline refuses to accommodate at all.

What do I do ?

I wear long sleeves and long pants, even if it is the middle of the summer. I usually wear a lightweight jacket or at least a vest over that.

I wear an N95 or N99 mask on the plane.

I pre-board the plane. I use a disposable seat cover to cover my seat (I carry one for each leg plus two extras in case of unexpected itinerary changes). I wear nitrile gloves while I use sanitizing wipes to wipe down the armrests, seatbelt, tray table, window shade, and other things I may have to touch in my immediate seating area. (there are studies to show that wipes are effective but not perfect in removing P/TN residue from surfaces, and the type of wipe can make a difference; I use Wet Ones).

I carry multiple epinephrine auto-injectors (Epipens and Allerject/Auvi-Q) -- two on my person in a dedicated carrier (along with Benadryl and an asthma inhaler) (usually worn as a waist pack, but last time I put it in a pocket of the vest I was wearing) and at least two more in my carry-on bag under the seat in front of me (the bag has a washable open tote around it to protect the bag from the floor). I also have a portable nebulizer and its emergency asthma meds in the medical carry-on bag above my seat.

I bring my own food though rarely take the mask off to eat it-- I have safe snacks in case we are delayed for too long on the plane, and I have at least two meals (I use a specific backpacking freeze dried meal that is safe and that only needs water, preferrably hot, to reconstitute for eating). If my pre-flight and/or layover time is long enough, I will eat one of the meals during that time, if I cannot find suitable food at the airport. As an aside: often it is very hard or impossible to find safe food at airports beyond fruit as a snack -- actual meals are very difficult. I do not eat any food from the airline. I bring a bottle of water with me just in case.

So far, this has worked.

A PP asked about doing other things in public -- I am careful about what I touch and I always carry wipes with me. My hands get wiped and washed a lot. I have trained myself to not touch my face, food, etc until my hands are wiped or washed with soap and water. Right now I only take public transit when I have no other choice, but In the past I had to commute by bus. When taking public transit, I wear long pants and short or long sleeves, with a jacket over. Even in the middle of the summer. I try not to touch anything with my hands. I need a seat due to a mobility disability, so USUALLY do not have to stand and hold a bar. I wear a mask on the bus, but that is more for the plentiful airborne allergens in the spring/summer/fall.

At restaurants, I wipe down the table in front of me, and at some I use a disposable plastic placemat that I bring. We only eat out at a few restaurants that we know are safe. I won't even step foot in someplace that serves a lot of seafood, and I learned the hard way about peanut shells so the few restaurants that are like that are a no go too.

At hotels, we wipe down room surfaces and request no room service for our stay.

SW
 

I just don't see how I diminished others by saying they can try to get an alternative snack through the crew or eat their peanut product if they needed to. To me, it seemed as if I was accommodating all.

I realize you're a flight attendant and I am not. There have been two times that I have had issues with food served on the plane and NEITHER time was there an alternative offering.

1) I brought PB sandwiches for my kids on a lunchtime flight. Once we were onboard, the flight crew requested that everyone refrain from eating peanut products. I complied but my kids (preschooler and toddler) were very hungry and crabby by the time we reached our destination. The flight attendants passed out one little package of pretzels per person. A while later, when my kids were getting upset, I politely explained the situation to the flight attendant and asked if there was anything else that I could feed to my kids since I couldn't feed what I'd brought. The FA said sorry, but they only had pretzels and peanuts onboard and they had already given out all the pretzels. He said we could eat our peanut butter if we needed to. We didn't, because I don't want to be responsible for killing anybody, but if we had gotten warning before we boarded the flight, we could have bought something else and EVERYONE could have been accommodated, not just the allergy person. The flight attendants did not offer yogurt, cheese, or turkey or any of the other things fly girl suggested that are usually on board. (Note: Just to be clear, I don't have a problem refraining from peanuts, just that there was no notice given.) This was a low-cost airline though.

2) I took another flight where there was meal service. There were two choices of entrees. One was fish and the other was not. I am allergic to fish (non anaphylactic, but a real allergy). This was the first flight I'd ever been on with meal service and I thought "no problem, I'll get the other one." However, I was seated at the back of the plane and by the time they got to me, there was only fish left. (I had no idea I wouldn't get a choice.) I explained that I couldn't eat the remaining option and the flight attendant was just kind of like "oh, sorry..." She did give me a couple of packages of peanuts. Obviously, that was not a peanut free flight. But again, no yogurt, turkey, cheese, etc. Not even for purchase. This was a legacy airline.
 
I am an adult with anaphylaxis-level allergies to peanuts, tree nuts, seafood (all fish, all shellfish), and milk. All were discovered the "hard way" and all have had multiple anaphylactic reactions in the past (either before we figured out what the cause was and/or after through accidental exposure). The seafood allergy is airborne. The peanut allergy is airborne if there is enough airborne peanut dust (e.g. the time I went to a steakhouse not knowing that the peanut allergy was airborne; the steakhouse had peanut shells all over the floor; the reaction took about 20 minutes to start)

Thank you for sharing your story. I feel more compassionate after reading your words.
 
/
I realize you're a flight attendant and I am not. There have been two times that I have had issues with food served on the plane and NEITHER time was there an alternative offering.

1) I brought PB sandwiches for my kids on a lunchtime flight. Once we were onboard, the flight crew requested that everyone refrain from eating peanut products. I complied but my kids (preschooler and toddler) were very hungry and crabby by the time we reached our destination. The flight attendants passed out one little package of pretzels per person. A while later, when my kids were getting upset, I politely explained the situation to the flight attendant and asked if there was anything else that I could feed to my kids since I couldn't feed what I'd brought. The FA said sorry, but they only had pretzels and peanuts onboard and they had already given out all the pretzels. He said we could eat our peanut butter if we needed to. We didn't, because I don't want to be responsible for killing anybody, but if we had gotten warning before we boarded the flight, we could have bought something else and EVERYONE could have been accommodated, not just the allergy person. The flight attendants did not offer yogurt, cheese, or turkey or any of the other things fly girl suggested that are usually on board. (Note: Just to be clear, I don't have a problem refraining from peanuts, just that there was no notice given.) This was a low-cost airline though.

2) I took another flight where there was meal service. There were two choices of entrees. One was fish and the other was not. I am allergic to fish (non anaphylactic, but a real allergy). This was the first flight I'd ever been on with meal service and I thought "no problem, I'll get the other one." However, I was seated at the back of the plane and by the time they got to me, there was only fish left. (I had no idea I wouldn't get a choice.) I explained that I couldn't eat the remaining option and the flight attendant was just kind of like "oh, sorry..." She did give me a couple of packages of peanuts. Obviously, that was not a peanut free flight. But again, no yogurt, turkey, cheese, etc. Not even for purchase. This was a legacy airline.

1. I can only speak of legacy carriers not regionals or low cost. Sorry they had no other options. But as I stated in my post, if they cannot accommodate they'll tell you it's ok to eat it. And they did. You made the decision not to and that's a personal one. No right or wrong, just one you felt you could make.

2. You could of at least had the base tray with the salad, rolls, and dessert. The fish is separate and not added on until your row. Why you wouldn't be offered that is bizarre. I've had similar situations and always offered the base tray. Were you given that option? I've tried (not always successfully) to find something else including checking if any first class entrees were denied. If after all that we still came up empty, we handed out meal vouchers so you could buy something "on us" in the airport. That really doesn't exist today since we don't serve hot meals in coach.

BTW, if you know you're getting a meal and have a specific dietary need you can let the airline know. We have a NO SEAFOOD MEAL believe it or not! Yes, you'll likely get chicken. :D


EDITED TO ADD -- if you haven't please read my long post on 25. That gives you the flight attendant perspective from both sides.
 
1. I can only speak of legacy carriers not regionals or low cost. Sorry they had no other options. But as I stated in my post, if they cannot accommodate they'll tell you it's ok to eat it. And they did. You made the decision not to and that's a personal one. No right or wrong, just one you felt you could make.

2. You could of at least had the base tray with the salad, rolls, and dessert. The fish is separate and not added on until your row. Why you wouldn't be offered that is bizarre. I've had similar situations and always offered the base tray. Were you given that option? I've tried (not always successfully) to find something else including checking if any first class entrees were denied. If after all that we still came up empty, we handed out meal vouchers so you could buy something "on us" in the airport. That really doesn't exist today since we don't serve hot meals in coach.

BTW, if you know you're getting a meal and have a specific dietary need you can let the airline know. We have a NO SEAFOOD MEAL believe it or not! Yes, you'll likely get chicken. :D
.

Yes. They did say I could feed them the peanut butter, but after making an announcement about the severe peanut allergy it really wasn't a choice. I don't want to be responsible for someone dying. I do not know how real a possibility dying really was, but...

I was not offered the base tray, nor a voucher... just a couple of packages of peanuts. If I ever go on a flight again where a hot meal is going to be served I'll consider notifying the airline and asking for a special meal. But probably I'll just bring my own food (not peanut butter again though!)
 
For the record, I have no medical issues that require snacking on certain food or at certain intervals so I would happily not eat nuts to accommodate someone else.

On a recent flight from MCO I ate some peanuts. About 10 mins later (after the plane had taken off) they made an announcement asking people to not eats any nuts on board due to an allergy. I immediately rang my call button and felt awful that I could have injured someone else. However, like others posts more notice would have stopped me from picking a peanut snack to bring on board.

This is OT but my DS has epilepsy and a few other issues. When he was first diagnosed I was devastated. What helped was to put things in perspective. Our doctors actually complimented us on being so relaxed and comfortable with his epilepsy. I have said in the past that I would rather him have epilepsy than a peanut allergy. For us, at least right now, we are able to control his epilepsy and not have to worry about anyone else affecting him. I can send him to school and know that the actions of others won't impact his epilepsy. We can go about our daily lives with minimal changes. This may sound silly, but it helped me put things in perspective. This thread is an example of why I feel the way I do.
 
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I don't know if this would be good for a diabetic, but I carry this vegan jerky with me when I fly. Doesn't need refrigeration, easy to transport, nut-free (at least the 3 flavors I currently have in front of me are), and I've never had a problem getting it past TSA or customs in any country I've visited. It's pretty tasty, too.

http://www.primalspiritfoods.com/index.php
Those look good, and they're described as being high protein. If you'll post the protein grams in a serving of veggie jerky, I'll post what's in a serving of peanut butter.

Ah, heck, I'll go first. Six grams in a two tablespoon serving.
 
Those look good, and they're described as being high protein. If you'll post the protein grams in a serving of veggie jerky, I'll post what's in a serving of peanut butter.

Ah, heck, I'll go first. Six grams in a two tablespoon serving.
The ones I have in front of me are 10g and 11g protein in a 1 ounce serving.
 
I think we are all missing that there ARE things that the allergic person can do on a flight that doesn't involve asking a whole plane to change their dietary plans. They make masks, (full face and half face) that filter out even the tinniest of particles, that would effectively filter out any chance of peanut dust. The allergic person could wear this mask and safely fly without asking others to change their plans.

They are not even that expensive http://respro.com/store/product/respro-allergy-mask

Now I've read that children can't keep the mask on- well so sad too bad, if you can't wear the mask, don't fly (and for the record you ALWAYS have a choice, I understand that people fly for funerals, to visit family and to move, if you can't fly safely without imposing on others, than you don't do those things, it IS a choice.)

I also read another poster who has to fly for doctors appointments, apparently they wear a mask, so they'll be fine, but if they insist on over the top accommodations, they should find alternatives to commercial travel. There are medical flights and there are also recreational pilots who will volunteer hours to fly medically fragile children (although I don't think they they could claim to be peanut free).

I always travel with uncrustables, they are easy to transport, don't need refrigeration, and my kids and I like them. I'm not going to stop flying with them. If someone asked me to not feed my children, I'd have words with both them and the airline. If a parent doesn't have a mask for their child, they are bad parents who are putting their children in danger, and they are also asking ME to be a bad parent by not feeding my kids.

If airlines are going to make these crazy requests, they better be prepared to equally accommodate the guests who have been put out by the peanut ban. If I was on this flight I'd be raising cain if I couldn't feed my kids.
 
I wondered if something was available. I don't see where it works with peanut dust, but I don't know how small those are. What I also can't tell is how often one would need to change the filters.

It is made for allergies and filters out the tinniest dust particles, peanut dust is a dust particle. I'm imagining every few hours, under the heaviest use circumstances, which wouldn't even be the case on an airplane.
 
The allergic person could wear this mask and safely fly without asking others to change their plans.

They are not even that expensive http://respro.com/store/product/respro-allergy-mask

That actually looks like a really good solution, since it puts control in the hands of the person with the allergy. When I was pregnant with my first, I was running a small crafting business which involved spray-painting my product, and I was concerned about breathing in all of those fumes. I used a heavy-duty mask, somewhat similar to the one in the link. Obviously, I could have halted the spray-painting, but the mask allowed me to continue AND stay safe.

As I said previously on the thread, if my child or I had a life-threatening allergy, I just would not feel comfortable trusting others to keep the plane allergy-free, nor would I feel is was my place to ask others for that kind of accommodation. Using the mask, wearing gloves and long sleeved pants and shirts, etc. are all things *I* could control.
 
I would not have a problem with a last minute announcement. It's not a shocker that sometimes requests are made that people not eat peanut products on a plane, so if I were to bring a snack, I would pick something that didn't have peanuts in it. I have never needed to bring snacks on a plane. If I don't have time to eat before flying and the flight is long, I will just purchase a snack box. If traveling with small children who must have a snack, it would be simple to just pack something that doesn't contain peanuts. That way, if they make a last minute announcement it will be no big deal.
 
As I posted earlier I wear a mask on the plane (and also at times when I am not on a plane, like going outside in spring/summer/fall, or riding public transit).

I have bought and used quite a few different brands of masks, including the Respro linked by a PP.

Aside from a properly (often by someone trained to fit) fitted appropriately filtered industrial or medical mask (which they do NOT make for or in children's sizes), the non-fitted/non-industrial/medical masks are NOT fully sealed -- small or tiny amounts of unfiltered air still manage to get in, IME. If you wear a mask of the proper size MOST of the air goes through the filter, but not quite all. IME the most common leakage points are around the nose and the chin. This has happened on every mask I have tried except the professionally fitted 3M half respirator that I was fitted for and used for a work application once - but wearing that one on an airplane for more than maybe two hours would have had its own set of issues.

So, while it helps, it is not a "cure-all" and does not filly solve the problem. e.g. I could not wear one of these and go to a seafood restaurant -- not complete enough filtration. I cannot wear one and visit friends who have cats (I have a severe cat allergy, too); I still have a reaction, it just takes longer to kick in and may or may not be as severe as without the mask; been there, tried that, learned the lesson.

Finally, there are other challenges to wearing a mask, especially for prolonged periods: They are hot (with most the area under the mask, and the mask itself eventually, gets damp or even soaking wet) and therefore uncomfortable to wear for hours at a time. They fog up glasses, especially in cool air (and the AC air of an airplane is cool enough) -- even the ones with exhalation valves, remember how I said one of the leaky areas is around the nose ? Well, IME no matter how you adjust it, some air leaks around the nose and WILL fog glasses if the temperature differential is enough. Some people are allergic to the materials used for some of the good masks, so cannot wear them at all. And, finally, you don't get as much oxygen wearing a mask, especially the ones with better filtration. for some people, this means they cannot wear them because their O2 levels drop too much. When I wear the mask I use now, my measured pulse ox levels drop 2-3%. I can tolerate this for a while as long as my asthma is doing well, but after a couple hours it starts to take a toll. And, form the minute you put on the mask the WORK of BREATHING is increased (it is harder to draw air through the filters so it takes more physical effort to breathe, your respiratory rate increases (partly due to the Sa02 level drop, but also due to the work of breathing itself). For some people, it could be a serious problem, and for most it becomes a problem after prolonged wearing. As an aside: some of the good masks I can wear while sitting around or walking slowly; any type of exertion (like a rapid walk in the airport to get to a gate, or running to catch your bus) is not an option because the work of breathing becomes too much. Finally, of course while wearing the mask you cannot eat or drink, and that can become a challenge for prolonged periods, especially in the very dry air of an airplane -- I may be able to go 4 hours with no food, but that long without water becomes a challenge; in reality the mask comes down a couple times a flight to drink water from the water bottle I boguht; I try to hold my breath during that time, but you still end up breathing in some of the airplane air.

Also: I use a really good N95 or N99 mask, properly sized, but they are not professionally fitted and can only adjust so much. They are among the best there are though without going to the professional respirators. When I wear it outside for seasonal allergens, I STILL GET ENOUGH ALLERGENS IN MY SYSTEM TO REACT, just so so much less than not wearing the mask. Now, part of that may because the allergens still get into your eyes and onto your skin. But I can also have respiratory symptoms, just not anywhere as bad as without the mask.

And, understand that N95, N99 or even N100 or P100 or HEPA does NOT capture 100% of the particles at whatever micron size it is rated to -- by definition. The tiny amount of critters that get through CAN be enough to trigger reactions in sensitive people. The mask just means you are getting rid of by far the majority of the particles by trapping them in the mask. But you still breathe some in. The question then becomes what the person's tolerance is -- how many can they breathe before their immune system decides it is time to wage war on normally harmless particles. Sometimes the filtering is good enough that you don't hit that threshold, but sometimes it is not, either because of the filter or because of the level of allergen in the environment.

So, while a good mask, if one can wear one, helps considerably to reduce and mitigate the risk, it is not a 100% solution.

SW
 
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