Waht is MIDDLE CLASS these days?

[pooh4evr]

Just wondering what is considered middle class today- as I read through the candidates websites talking about middle class tax cuts, healthcare education... and all the political threads here lately- waht do you consider middle class- is it based only on income, or is there more to the picture and what do politicans consider MC?

 

[ajk912]

That's all a bunch of baloney to me. Middle class in Kansas is a lot different than middle class in California. Heck, middle class in California is downright rich in Kansas. "Middle class" is so subjective.

 

[John Smith1]

That's all a bunch of baloney to me. Middle class in Kansas is a lot different than middle class in California. Heck, middle class in California is downright rich in Kansas. "Middle class" is so subjective.

It definitely is subjective. When I lived in the Northeast the "middle class" was MEGAWEALTHY compared to what I considered middle class here in Georgia.

 

[Lintasare]

I guess here in NM I am in the lower middle class. But if I were anywhere else I would be considered poor.

 

[mjkacmom]

Here in the NE, even though DH has a 6 figure salary, we are definately middle class.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

The term middle class is subjective depending on where you live, but I think that from lower-middle to upper-middle, household incomes can range from $25K to $100K. I believe the median income in America is somewhere around $50K per year.

 

[pooh4evr]

Does anyone know what politicians consider middle class when talking about programs?

 

[agnes!]

Whoever the audience is that they are talking to at that particular moment. *THAT* is what they consider to be middle-class. Someone *else* is always considered to be "rich", "upper-class", "wealthy".
Oh, and the audience-members of the moment is always considered to be 'working class' or 'working families' too.

Yeah, I'm cynical. Can you tell?
agnes!

 

[smartestnumber5]

I found this information from an economist's presentation. It is essentially what I remember from college courses looking at economic class issues.

What is Middle Class?
Several definitions –
1.Middle is between top and bottom
2.Middle class is the middle-middle class
3.Middle class is professional classes
4.Middle class is made up of three classes: a.upper middle, b.middle, and c.the lower middle or working class
.
.
.
The national median household income is $46,000 and individual median income is $32,000 in 2003 dollars.
.
.
.
Upper Class (1-5%):
CEOs and other high income individuals

Upper Middle Class (15%)
White collar professionals, great autonomy, graduate degrees, commonly $62,500+ ($100K+ for households with 2 income earners)

Lower Middle Class (30-33%):
Semi-professionals, bachelor’s degree or some college, limited autonomy,
commonly $32,500 - $60,000.

Working Class (30-33%):
Clerical, service and blue collar, minimal autonomy, high school or perhaps some college, commonly $15,000 -$32,000.

Poor (17 – 20%):
Frequently unemployed, below the
poverty line, often no high school degree, below $15,000.

According to this breakdown the "Middle Class" (working class, lower middle, and upper middle) is at least 75% of the U.S. population and spans an income range of over $135,000 (from $15,000 at the bottom to $150,000 at the top 5%) . The whole term is nonsense when you look at it that way.

If I were saying something about "middle grade earners" in a classroom full of 50 students I would obviously not be referring to 37.5 of them, nor would I be picking out everyone who got a grade anywhere between a D and an A (leaving only the D- and below and the A+s out).

I think everyone except those who are in serious poverty or close to it and those who are super-rich tend to think they are middle-class. In the past few years GF and I were living on an amount of money that put us in the working class category. This year, though, we jumped up to the lower middle class category and putting our incomes together make a bit over the household median. When we talk about money issues I will often have to remind her that we ARE middle class, that we in fact will make more money this year than 50% of the households in the country . She will respond by saying, "Yeah, but they how come we live in an extremely cheap apartment, have almost no assets, have furniture that doesn't match, have a TV that's probably 15 years old, etc?"

The answer, I think, is because the use of the term "middle class" (and the way she understands it) doesn't pick out anything like the actual middle. As portrayed in the media "middle class" means home-owning, 3 bedroom + home, 2 cars +, private school or lessons for the kids, nice vacation every year, well-furnished home, children get braces if needed, state college tuition can be paid OOP without a problem, etc. But I just don't see how the actual middle 20% of households in the U.S. could possibly afford all these things, since (according to Wikipedia) the actual middle 20% of households have an income between 34-55,000.

In terms of politicians, I think it is generally to their benefit to be able to talk about "the middle class" as if it is a monolithic group whose interests are aligned. I think it's really doubtful, though, that the interests of a household making 34,000 a year and a household making 150,000 a year would be very similar. So it's much better if the politicians can make both households think that "middle class" refers to them, rather than getting into any details and possibly having to point out that the interests of these households are probably nothing alike if not at odds with each other.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Does anyone know what politicians consider middle class when talking about programs?

I know the SCHIP bill the dems wanted to push through had an income cap of 65k

I do not think the final bill was that high, and that is of course only people with kids.

Other income caps vary by state.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Middle class is a slippery concept. It is one thing economically and altogether another thing sociologically. A lot of people who earn substantial wages consider themselves middle class. In reality, a household with a six figure income is in the top 20% of household incomes. Is having more income than 80% of Americans really middle class?

 

[Minnie_me]

I wonder, too. I'm a teacher in a rural district, not making much money AT ALL. DH is a social worker in this same rural county - - so you can put two and two together.

And yet, when he did our taxes, he told me that our earnings put us in the top 5% of the country!??!? HUH!?? It seems to me that everyone has more money than us. At least, families with two working parents.

 

[PatsGirl]

I always think of middle class as families where everyone that can work does in order to get the things they want and there are intermittent struggles, but with the exception of substantial financial emergencies, are able to overcome those obstacles. To me, middle class means owning a modest home, 2 or 3 bedroom depending on whether you have 1 kid or 3, having a fairly new car that is mid-priced and the second car being paid off, taking a weekend here and there maybe camping or visiting friends, and another nice vacation each year that has to be saved for. Being able to feed and clothe your children without foregoing the mortgage or car payment but not enough money to shop where and whenever you wanted to Being able to eat out a few times a month and maybe see a movie or go bowling occasionally too. And colleges were based on finances not wherever you are accepted.

Now, upper middle class would have two new cars, two weeks of a nice vacation without really struggling and eat out once a week. These families would also pay for their kids insurance and make sure they have the $100 sneakers everyone is wearing. College choices might be a big broader.

Lower middle class (which I consider myself) are those people who scrimp and save for the vacations they take, make sure the kids have a job when they are 14 so they can buy themselves their $100 sneakers and save up cash for the car they'll want at 16, own two used cars (or one for each adult in the family) and eat grilled cheese and tomato soup/mac and cheese with diced ham, etc. so they can eat out a few times a month. We also ALWAYS!!! bring our lunch to work, and survive on home-brewed or office-brewed coffee. None of that spending $5 every morning for bagels and coffee and another $5 every lunchtime for a soup and sandwich. The mortgage gets paid, the utilities get paid, we can afford the bi-yearly dental bills and the doctor co-pays because we budget for them. Everything is a budget College is paid for by loans and grants and kids who work for spending money and Mom/Dad throw in whatever they've managed to save or whatever they can afford at the time. In Massachusetts, lower middle class families with just slightly-above average kids, try to get their kids into state schools because the education is great but the bill isn't

Just my take on middle-class in Southeast Mass. No economic background or real financial education ~~ just real life experience.

 

[connorlevismom]

Now, upper middle class would have two new cars, two weeks of a nice vacation without really struggling and eat out once a week. These families would also pay for their kids insurance and make sure they have the $100 sneakers everyone is wearing. College choices might be a big broader.

.

I am considered upper middle class and this is soooo not me. We have two nice cars but they are not luxury cars by any means. There is no way I could vacation for 2 weeks without saving for it first.....

You get the idea.

I get so frustrated with the term middle class. It seems like it is just thrown around to suit whomever is speaking at the moment.

I hardly believe that someone who makes $100,000 in California considers themselves upper middle class.

Kristine

 

[Papa Deuce]

Just a guess, but in Philly, I would put that number between $50,000 - $150,000.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Now, upper middle class would have two new cars, two weeks of a nice vacation without really struggling and eat out once a week. These families would also pay for their kids insurance and make sure they have the $100 sneakers everyone is wearing. College choices might be a big broader.

I have most of these things, but I'm not in the upper middle class.

I don't own a car (I don't know how to drive)
We eat out at least once a week. (I'm too lazy to cook every night)
My son has $100 sneakers (yeah, he's spoiled)
broad College choices (those good grades may pay off )
30 vacation days a year and free full health & dental coverage for my son and I. No co-pays for office or hospital visits. The max I pay for medication is $10.00 (All thanks to my Union)

 

[mjkacmom]

Middle class is a slippery concept. It is one thing economically and altogether another thing sociologically. A lot of people who earn substantial wages consider themselves middle class. In reality, a household with a six figure income is in the top 20% of household incomes. Is having more income than 80% of Americans really middle class?

It is if you live in an area with a high COL.

 

[EthansMom]

Politicians love the term "middle class" because most everyone considers themselves to be "middle class". In other words, they're broadly promising to improve most everyone's plight.

Here in the NE, a salary in the low six-figures is still pretty much middle class... maybe heading toward upper-middle class, but definitely not "wealthy".

I remember a few years ago reading an article about how people who were considered "affluent" by gov't standards really considered themselves to be middle-class. I can't remember the income required to be "affluent" but I think it was in the low six-figures ($100-150k, someplace). The people quoted in the article still clipped coupons, had to make priorities for their spending, shopped at discount stores, etc...

So, how much money would you have to have before you would NOT call yourself "middle class"? How little would you have to have before you would NOT call yourself "middle class"?

 

[PatsGirl]

So, how much money would you have to have before you would NOT call yourself "middle class"? How little would you have to have before you would NOT call yourself "middle class"?

Well, I know that I have a long way to get there (lottery or by marriage notwithstanding ) but I think I will have surpassed "middle class" when:

The mortgage on my 1200 square foot house is no longer my biggest liability nor my biggest asset but instead just another monthly expense while I'm searching for my "real home"

I don't forego buying a new car because I'm trying to put $$ away for my kids' college education

I can afford ~without a blink of the eye ~to buy my kids the $100 sneakers (I wouldn't anyways, but I'd like to be able to afford to without giving up my WDW vacations ), my bras are from Victoria Secrets and I'm wearing an outfit that surpasses the $200 mark for a special occasion

I don't really have to look at prices at the grocery store, the salon, the gas pump -- yeah, I might realize it's expensive, but I'll know "I'm worth it"

Getting my rugs cleaned is considered routine home maintenance.

I don't have to pray that we only get 6" of snow because I don't have the $100 cash to have my driveway plowed. Well, I might have it, but it's definately in the "vacation fund drawer".

I'm booking a suite on my next cruise instead of an inside room and hoping that I get upgraded to a oceanview, assuming of course, this isn't my first or only vacation in the last ten years (in which case, everyone deserves a balcony ).

Taking the "dive" from lower middle class to whatever is below me (is it called working class these days, because I always considered it poverty level) isn't gonna take much... a recession, a catastrophic emergency within the family, oil prices going much higher... and I will know I am there when:

I can't afford my mortgage (which is about 50% of what a rental in my area costs) which means I will be homeless

I drive a car older and less reliable than the one I have and not be able to replace it

Grilled cheese and tomatoe soup/omelets and toast become our standard fare and a sliced london broil with baked potatoe and fresh vegetable are our "special meal"

Eating out means Friendlys or other fast food and Fridays is the BIG night out every few months

Having my hair done is a thing of the past.

Vacations are limited to camping locally. Yeah, it's fun, but how many hot dogs can one person eat and how many hours can one person spend fishing?


Just funnin everyone, please no offense intended.

 

[EMom]

Years ago, when DH and I were first married, we did taxes. I was teaching, so my salary was decent but not stellar since TX salaries were low back then. He made almost twice as much in his profession. We looked on some chart and we fell into the top 10% income level in the US. We were stunned because we weren't exactly rolling in it. One newish car, one very used car, a mortgage, paying off student loans, etc. I remember thinking, "Geez...What is everyone else making???"

We have one income now and I don't know where we are on that chart. I do know that even though his income has gone up, it seems like we don't make a lot of headway. No more $5 and $10 copays for meds. Now it's $30 and $45. With both of us needing several maintenance meds per month, that adds up. Insurance premiums have gone through the roof, but we have to pay it.

Still, we are fortunate to live where housing costs are low. His salary wouldn't go this far in California, for example. I am blessed to live a much better life than I grew up with (financially) and my daughter never has to worry about not having her needs met. I don't have to say no to a "need" for lack of money, as my parents did. I may say no to a "want," but that's another matter.

"Middle class" is such a vague term. So much depends on where you live, etc. It's apples to oranges. You can't put a dollar figure on it without qualifiers.