Wage rules lifted

[mickeyfan2]

Perhaps you can feed a family of 4 on 22k gross, but I doubt it.

Yes and I know people who have. Also why is it that the family of four only has one earner? If you are married and hubby works, you could work partime at night to add to the money. Also the poverty level does not include food stamps, WIC or other programs, which add to the bottom line.

Second of all we keep getting told that the poor in NOLA make about $7500/year. Boy would I rather sit on my butt and get $7500 than work and get $22K. Who wants to earn 3X more?

It's about $3000 a year above poverty level for a family of 4. Considering the fact that construction work is not guaranteed 40 hrs a week

Actually if one knows about the building industry (and yes I do):

1) In a place like NOLA you would work all year. In colder areas, they go on unemployment in the winter months.

2) They will work far more than 40 hours. Most arrive at sunup and work until sundown (make hay while the sun is shining). So more hours in the summer less in the winter. On sunny days you frame outside, on rainy days you frame inside.

 

[peachgirl]

Also why is it that the family of four only has one earner?

Look at the statistics, a vast majority of poor families are single head of household.

Also the poverty level does not include food stamps, WIC or other programs, which add to the bottom line.

At 22k, they wouldn't qualify for any of these which is exactly my point. Give them just enough of a wage to prevent them from receiving assistance.

Btw...The 22k is the requirement that has been suspended. They don't have to pay that now. They only have to pay minimum wage and don't even try and tell me a family of 4 can live decently on minimum wage.

Second of all we keep getting told that the poor in NOLA make about $7500/year. Boy would I rather sit on my butt and get $7500 than work and get $22K. Who wants to earn 3X more?

Because at $7500 they qualify for assistance such as getting decent health care for their children and a roof over their head. That's the point you keep missing. Btw, they aren't sitting on their butts getting $7500 a year...they are working poor.

1) In a place like NOLA you would work all year. In colder areas, they go on unemployment in the winter months.

Gee, tell Hurricane Katrina that it never rains in New Orleans.

2) They will work far more than 40 hours. Most arrive at sunup and work until sundown (make hay while the sun is shining). So more hours in the summer less in the winter. On sunny days you frame outside, on rainy days you frame inside.

Some weeks they will, some weeks they won't...well except for New Orleans where it never rains.

There is no reason to suspend the act except for pure greed. Again, don't ***** about the poor when you resent paying them a decent wage.

 

[AllyandJack]

What bothers me most about this is that there are some workers who always made the prevailing wage. My DH used to work for a company that only did prevailing wage. He worked there for 4 years. There was never a lay-off....there was never a week he worked less than 40 hours. We bought our home and based our life on this wage. I know we would have been pretty ticked off if, all of a sudden, his employer just cut his pay because he now had permission to do so.

I don't know much about construction in LA, but I have to believe there are people down there who have worked for a long time and built their lives on the wage they are paid. To be told one day, "hey....you used to make $X, but now you're going to make $X...." stinks.

That's what bothers me the most. You're going to see a lot of people not being able to make mortgage payments because their income was cut back. That just adds to the problem.

 

[BuckNaked]

At 22k, they wouldn't qualify for any of these which is exactly my point. Give them just enough of a wage to prevent them from receiving assistance.

Yes, they would.

WIC:

Max annual income for a family of 4 is $35,798

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/howtoapply/incomeguidelines.htm

Food Stamps:

Gross monthly income limits for a family of 4 is $2,043 or $24,516.
http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/applicant_recipients/fs_Res_Ben_Elig.htm

Not to mention the biggest giveaway of all, the EITC.

 

[What the Heck]

Personally, I don't beleive this is the right thing to do, unless the savings are passed back to the government so more work can be done with less. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

As for the claim made initially by HaleyB, you realize that you are talking about less than 1% of the recovery money, and it is only (according to your source) for the Navy ports? And that the Vice President no longer works for, nor gets profits from work Halliburton does now (or since he no longer worked for them)? But hey, anything to distort the facts.

 

[totalia]

How likely is it to you that someone who makes less than $24000 a year (but not that much less) will actually get more than a few dollars a month even if the gvt actually agrees to give it to them? Its only about $2000 a year. That works out to $166 a month. Thats like change in your pocket.

As a single person living alone, I know I can live on $1200 a month (did it for years). Family of 4? Do you think they can live on $2000 a month? Thats just enough to give a single person some little benefits so they aren't just barely paying their bills each month. Never mind a family of 4.

Either some people have been living under a rock or they never had to support a family on that kind of wage. My mother did it ($1600 a month and a family of 3) but I had to start working at 15 to help her because she couldn't afford the bills on her own.

How much do you really think living costs?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Well I work on the other side of the Davis-Bacon Act. Whenever we spend federal money on a project we have to follow it. Let me tell you how much more expensive it makes a job. We will have the same contractors bidding on projects but when they bid federal money contracts all of sudden everyone gets paid more. This will make rebuilding a little more cost effective, which will be better for more people in the end. Also, believe me supply and demand will take care of wages. No one needs to fret.

 

[BuckNaked]

How likely is it to you that someone who makes less than $24000 a year (but not that much less) will actually get more than a few dollars a month even if the gvt actually agrees to give it to them? Its only about $2000 a year. That works out to $166 a month. Thats like change in your pocket.

The max food stamp allotment for a family of 4 is $499/month, or $5,988/year. On the $22,000 annual income in the example, a family of 4 could expect about $200/month in foodstamps. When you don't have much money, $200/month is nothing to toss aside as insignificant.

 

[mickeyfan2]

That works out to $166 a month. Thats like change in your pocket.

So how much do you figure I make to assume the $166 is change in my pocket?

As a single person living alone, I know I can live on $1200 a month (did it for years). Family of 4? Do you think they can live on $2000 a month?

Actually yes, you can get free school lunches. Tax credits. I have a friend who is a divorced mom of three. She mades about $18,500 and gets $100/week in child support. So she mades $23,700/year. I helped her fill out divorce forms and questioned her when she wrote that she paid $3.00/week to the federal government. She showed me her pay stub and it was true. At tax time she got over $3000 in a refund. Paid $156 get $3000 - good deal. And yes she has a house and is making the combined house/taxes of $850/week. So she did raise a family of four on ~$2000 and owned a home too.

Either some people have been living under a rock or they never had to support a family on that kind of wage. My mother did it ($1600 a month and a family of 3) but I had to start working at 15 to help her because she couldn't afford the bills on her own.

Stop labeling all of us as so uninformed. I know as much as you do and I do not live under a rock.

How much do you really think living costs?

As my actual example showed, it can be done.

 

[Planogirl]

Are construction workers so badly underemployed that they will all be rushing to New Orleans to get paid less than the prevailing rate? And I ask again, where will they live?

 

[AllyandJack]

Are construction workers so badly underemployed that they will all be rushing to New Orleans to get paid less than the prevailing rate? And I ask again, where will they live?

I think it depends on the trade. My DH is in the electrical field. He worked in the trade for 10 years and now he's a project manager. He was NEVER unemployed. Even up here in the northeast, there was never a layoff. This is because the walls and roof are usually up by the time DH gets in there. Yes, there is some outside work to be done, but there is always enough indoor work to keep them busy in the cold months.

There are some trades, such as roofers, who can't work in bad weather. So, you might get a bunch of roofers who would jump at the chance to go to NOLA in the coming cold, snowy months. If it's more than their unemployment benefits, it would start to look pretty good.

I would hope whatever company brought them down there would provide housing. DH's company does national work and they always provide housing for the employees if they're sent away from home.

 

[peachgirl]

On the WIC website...

WIC cannot serve all eligible people,

Meeting the income levels doesn't get you benefits.

From the FNS site

To get food stamps, households must meet certain tests, including resource and income tests.

They would NOT qualify for food stamps. As anyone who knows the first thing about food stamps is aware, it isn't a matter of just meeting the income requirements.

Example: Family of 4 with no unusual circumstances (no special needs, no elderly etc..) who has less than $2000 in resources (that includes bank accounts, vehicles ( rules listed below), etc) has to make less than $2043.

However, that doesn't mean you automatically get food stamps if you fall below that. Again assuming there are no special circumstance and that all income is earned income... Here we go..

Btw, I'm not even deducting the $1+ per hour that is actually "fringe"..not neccessarily wages..but nonetheless..


Gross Monthly Income for 4o hrs a week @ 10.50 per hr 52 weeks=22048.

Formulation is:

Take .2 deduction off monthly income (1837.00 x .2 = 367.00) =1470.00

Multiply net monthly income by .3 (1470.00 x.3=441.00)

Subtract 30% of net income from the maximum allotment for the household size...

Maximum allotment: $449
$449 - $441= $9

Your family of 4, under these general circumstances would get a whopping $9 in food stamps.

Also, the computations are based on net not gross income but since we have no way to figure the exact amount of net, I simply went with 22k being the net income. Since at 22k for a family of 4 isn't going to pay a huge amount in taxes, it wouldn't substantially change the figures.

Let's not be intentionally misleading, okay?

They would NOT qualify for assistance for all intents and purposes.



Rules for vehicles:

For the following vehicles, the amount of the fair market value over $4,650 is counted:

• One licensed vehicle per adult household member, and
• Any other vehicle a teen-aged member drives to work, school, or job training, or to look for work.

Vehicles are NOT counted if they are:

• Used over 50 percent of the time for income-producing purposes,
• Annually producing income consistent with their fair market value,
• Needed for long distance travel for work (other than daily commute),
• Used as the home,
• Needed to transport a physically disabled household member, or
• Needed to carry most of the household's fuel or water,
• Worth no more than $1,500, after any loans are paid off.

 

[peachgirl]

How likely is it to you that someone who makes less than $24000 a year (but not that much less) will actually get more than a few dollars a month even if the gvt actually agrees to give it to them? Its only about $2000 a year. That works out to $166 a month. Thats like change in your pocket.

It isn't likely at all, but it sounds good to say it. As the figures show, they'd get about $9 and that's best case scenario. If they have a car they probably wouldn't get a dime in food stamps.

 

[AllyandJack]

With it being that complicated, it's no wonder idiots can take advantage while deserving people are left in the cold. Maybe if we made it less complicated, it could be regulated better and we could weed out the idiots and help the truly deserving.

My best friend lives off of public assistance. She has a car. Her DH makes about $20,000 a year in his legit job and another $20,000 or so under the table. They could get benefits, but they don't want to pay $75./week for them.

They get free health care, WIC and food stamps. Once she got pregnant, THEY called HER to enroll her.

 

[peachgirl]

My best friend lives off of public assistance. She has a car. Her DH makes about $20,000 a year in his legit job and another $20,000 or so under the table. They could get benefits, but they don't want to pay $75./week for them.

Then they are committing a crime and should be reported. If I knew them, I'd report them.

At any rate, the fact that someone cheats doesn't mean that those who are in need shouldn't receive benefits.

 

[Planogirl]

AllyandJack, that's interesting and good to know. I guess I can see that it would depend on position.

I know that our area is growing insanely fast and we have construction people all over the place. I couldn't imagine them heading over to New Orleans but I can see some from colder areas doing so.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Are construction workers so badly underemployed that they will all be rushing to New Orleans to get paid less than the prevailing rate? And I ask again, where will they live?

Actually just the opposite is true. There is a building boom still going on in the US. They will need to pay well to get them to go there.

 

[BuckNaked]

Example: Family of 4 with no unusual circumstances (no special needs, no elderly etc..) who has less than $2000 in resources (that includes bank accounts, vehicles ( rules listed below), etc) has to make less than $2043.

However, that doesn't mean you automatically get food stamps if you fall below that. Again assuming there are no special circumstance and that all income is earned income... Here we go..

Btw, I'm not even deducting the $1+ per hour that is actually "fringe"..not neccessarily wages..but nonetheless..


Gross Monthly Income for 4o hrs a week @ 10.50 per hr 52 weeks=22048.

Formulation is:

Take .2 deduction off monthly income (1837.00 x .2 = 367.00) =1470.00

Multiply net monthly income by .3 (1470.00 x.3=441.00)

Subtract 30% of net income from the maximum allotment for the household size...

Maximum allotment: $449
$449 - $441= $9

Your family of 4, under these general circumstances would get a whoppigng $9 in food stamps.

You might want to do your calculations again, using the correct numbers this time.

Gross monthly income: $1837.

.20 earned income deduction: $367.

Standard deduction (for all households): $134.

That takes the monthly net to $1336.

Multiply by .3 for the family's contribution to food, and you have $400.

Subtract $400 (not $441, as you said) from $499 (not $449, as you said), and you have $99.

Now, take into consideration daycare expenses, which are deductible up to $175 per child for kids over 2, $200/child for 2 and under. That will take our family up to a bit over $200/month in food stamps.

And if their housing costs (including gas, electricity, water, one telephone, rent/mortgage, property taxes) are more than half of the adjusted net income (in our example, w/o childcare, $668/month), the amount about 50% is also deducted.

 

[BuckNaked]

It isn't likely at all, but it sounds good to say it. As the figures show, they'd get about $9 and that's best case scenario.

You need to look at your numbers again. You used incorrect figures and did not consider any daycare or housing cost deductions.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Actually just the opposite is true. There is a building boom still going on in the US. They will need to pay well to get them to go there.

Like I said...supply and demand will cause wages to rise. No one really needs to be worrying about the legit construction workers.