VMK is worth WHAT?

Jasonbobdude

That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
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392
After their last attempt to prove VMK a contest and that closing it down would be somehow illegal, it seems they have a new argument that VMK is worth $2,000,000,000 - and it actually makes sense somehow. :rotfl:

The Big Question: Why?
We have been asked hundreds of times -- by major stock holders, and by the very young -- the same, excellent question over and over: "Why would Disney want to close VMK?"

Some say, simply, Disney is being "greedy." They want more money any way they can get it, they say, and Disney appears to think few players will stay on VMK if they begin charging for it. Judging from hundreds of comments we've received, this is an incorrect notion. The players love and live for VMK, and some would gladly pay.

Further, if Disney is simply being greedy, why is Disney throwing away a $2 billion project? Especially when that value for VMK is calculated upon Disney's own valuation formula?

Here is the formula: Club Penguin had 700,000 players. Disney bought it in what could be a $700 million deal. Thus, Disney counts each ClubPenguin user as being worth $1,000 dollars. Disney assigned this value even though each player only pays between $58 - $72 per year to play. That adds up to about $50 million per year, which is what they reported making from ClubPenguin last year.

This brings up another question: how will Disney make money on the ClubPenguin deal? Perhaps Disney expects ClubPenguin to keep all their players signed up until the yearly amount equals the purchase price -- in another 14 years. This appears highly unlikely given the pace of technology.

Or, it could be that Disney hopes to recoup their investment selling ClubPenguin-brand products on the side. That doesn't seem very likely either.

Finally, Disney could be hoping to make back their money by getting many, many more people to sign up for Club Penguin. How can they accomplish this? The comments we've received suggest that the amount of people who can see themselves as penguins may be a limited number. So, Disney could be hoping to increase their Club Penguin (and other virtual worlds') membership by closing down other, free parts of their web sites, in hopes players will sign up for paid Disney sites instead. That sounds feasible.

Except there are some problems with that approach which -- judging from the comments sent here -- are becoming big problems. Kids are realizing Disney is ready to pull the plug on virtual worlds at any time, which doesn't build the trust needed for a successful virtual community, which is something built as much by the players as by the corporate sponsor. Meanwhile, experts are claiming Disney is being irresponsible, immoral and damaging the psyche's of its young audience.

Parents seem to agree, joining an ad-hoc boycott of all things Disney. And lets be clear here: this boycott is less out of expecting any real response from Disney corporate offices than it is based upon a growing dismay toward the Disney brand they once loved. They are cancelling their trips, throwing away their trip-planning DVDs, and changing the channel to Nick, because they are just sickened by the "whole, VMK-closing thing."

So, while the Disney-is-being-greedy theory seems partially valid, it doesn't appear to be accurate or working. Disney remains focused on providing extraordinary quality within their brand. So maybe, as others say, Disney is just being "dumb."

Look around VMK; the site has already lost it's many acquisition-minded players. Meanwhile, look at the other Disney virtual games: Are they suddenly busier? Overwhelmed with new players? Many say they are not.

By comparison the Virtual Magic Kingdom -- unlike Club Penguin -- promotes all things Disney, specifically offering a convincing promotional tool to get people to the parks. Could VMK itself have been promoted better? Perhaps. Yet the promotional potential of VMK is still there, and according to the comments we've received, is working very, very well. Do people who play VMK want to go to the parks? And actually go there? Absolutely, see for yourself (e.g., in the final comment).

Further, many agree that visiting the Disney parks is not cheap. So whatever their expenses for running VMK -- estimated at under $850,000 per year -- Disney has a clear way to recoup them in full, and then some. Here is where things take a surprising turn.

Also unlike Club Penguin, VMK doesn't have 700,000 players. Rather, VMK is said to have over 2 million registered players. Over. Two. Million. Players. And make no mistake, for many of these players, VMK is their primary entertainment, Internet and recreational avenue. They may have "Hannah Montana" playing in the background, but VMKers are leaning forward, focused on their real friends and real interactions within the virtual world of VMK.

So, going by Disney's own valuation -- with each player being worth $1,000 a piece -- VMK is worth $2 billion dollars. That's billion, with a "b."

Who would have thought Disney was doing so well that they could throw away a successful, growing, $2 billion dollar project? Meanwhile, every year, Disney avoids a potential $144 million dollars per year of profit, simply by not charging $6 per month to play VMK, which could, over time, push VMK to exceed it's $2 billion value, just as Disney expects ClubPenguin to surpass its $700 million value.

Perhaps Disney doesn't think VMK players are worth as much as ClubPenguin players. The rejected players seem to feel that way. Ask the seriously ill Madison Reed or any of the millions of other "fired," former VMK players. Let's say VMKers are worth only half the original amount, or $500 each. That still makes VMK worth $1 billion. So VMK is clearly a very, very valuable social network, virtual world, brand-builder, Internet property, and money-maker.

So, given the brilliance that is VMK (and its potential revenue-generating potential), the Disney-is-being-dumb theory doesn't hold water, either. Which leaves one theory left.

Some speculate that Sulake, the company which developed the underlying (outdated) technology VMK is based on, are the real ones closing VMK because they just signed a deal with Paramount. Plus, the contract had already run out and was merely being extended. Lastly, Sulake needs the staff to create the sure-to-be-uplifting "Mean Girls" world at today's presumably higher rates.

So Sulake appears to be playing the cards it was dealt wisely and carefully. Noted. After all, what does Sulake care about Disney? Or fans of the Disney brand? They're all just another client, as far as Sulake's concerned. And bonus points to Paramount for out-witting Disney (although they better be very careful in their own dealings with Sulake!).

And why did Disney sponsor a virtual world -- where children were supposed to grow and develop their (and Disney's) presence, property, and social networks -- by contracting with Sulake for such a limited time? The 10-year olds playing VMK all knew VMK was supposed to go on forever, so why didn't anyone at Disney appear to know this too?

Which leads back to the original question, one which, it turns out, no one but Disney can answer: "Why would Disney want to close VMK?" SaveVMK.com has a petition of over 16,460 people who would like to know.

And it suggests another, yet-to-be-answered question: Why are the Disney stockholders standing by while such a tragic mistake is made if VMK were to be closed forever?

The world may never know the answer. Or care, since other, non-Disney virtual worlds are likely to pick up that $2 billion value, while gaining the gratitude of millions of former VMK players and their families (formerly known as Disney customers) on May 22.

Have they mailed this in to Disney yet? It sounds pretty good.

EDIT: Forgot to mention article is from savevmk.com.
 
Wow, that was an excellent read. If you ask me, I think it is most likely Sulake's decision.
 

I can easily imagine VMK players being worth more than Penguin players. While we don't pay for the game, we pay for pricier products (such as movies or a trip to the parks) for items in the game.

As as an example, there have been many more inferno magic pins in the game since it was a DMR prize. Why doesn't Disney realize, for every new pin there was, they have sold at minimum of four movies? All my movies were worth 100 points, plus 50 bonus points I had, so I bought six. And DVDs are expensive. We got ours from the Disney Movie Club deal, and they charged us about $20 a movie. That's $120 in one month, just from one player. We also had a four-person trip to WDW in 2006 because of how much I wanted to go to the parks after VMK.
 
Wow that makes a whole lot of sense please send this to Disney and Sulake.
 
I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Disney paid $700 million for Club Penguin, which included the current game and its game engine. So comparing the purchase price directly to the number of users doesn't really work. They're banking on getting lots of use out of the engine for the 10+ worlds in development- we've already seen that Disney Fairies has a definite CP look to it.

There was much more to the purchase than just making money off of current users.
 
I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Disney paid $700 million for Club Penguin, which included the current game and its game engine. So comparing the purchase price directly to the number of users doesn't really work. They're banking on getting lots of use out of the engine for the 10+ worlds in development- we've already seen that Disney Fairies has a definite CP look to it.

There was much more to the purchase than just making money off of current users.


But think if Disney did sell those VMK clothes that they were going too ( real life VMK clothes : bird hat etc ) There is profit right there because we all want to look like out avatars. About 3 quarters of the people on vmk are loyal to the game and would pay so it's safe to say that x users equals x ammount.
 
ClubPenguin was worth $700 million because Disney paid $700 million for it, based on what they projected they could make off of its performance and resources in the future. $700 million (or whatever the number actually is) had less to do with the current number of subscribers, although that may have played into the decision, and I see where the author was going by placing the value of the game in its subscribers.

I feel that the “VMK is worth $2 billion” argument is full of assumptions and comparisons that really can’t be made.

To date, nobody has payed a dime to play VMK, and the 2 million registered VMK users mentioned are not necessarily active, unlike the 700,000 subscribing (read: paying) Club Penguin members.

So, it would be more correct to compare VMK’s total registered users as stated above (2 million) with Club Penguin’s 12 million registered users in May of last year.

700,000 CP subscribers/12,000,000 total CP registrations = 5.8% of ClubPenguin users subscribing.

Okay, so let's assume that 5.8% of VMK's 2,000,000 registrations would decide to subscribe: that's 116,000 VMK players. Now using the inherently faulty logic above, let's say that each of those players is worth $1,000. In that case VMK is worth $116 million.

Of course, my numbers are as incorrect as the ones above because we don't have enough information to know what was all included with the cost of CP. No criticism meant...it was a creative thought process and a fun math exercise.

You know, by doing sloppy math, you can make 1= -1 !

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But think if Disney did sell those VMK clothes that they were going too ( real life VMK clothes : bird hat etc ) There is profit right there because we all want to look like out avatars. About 3 quarters of the people on vmk are loyal to the game and would pay so it's safe to say that x users equals x ammount.

3 quarters sounds far too much, try 1 quarter.
 
3 quarters sounds far too much, try 1 quarter.

I believe it would be at most 3 minimum 2 but even 1 quarter is fine it's still alot of money a month. VMK has amazing graphics that far surpass anything anywhere else the game has potential so it's definatly sulake.
 
I think that much more important than the assumption that VMK is worth $2 billion is the fact that it's reflecting badly on WDIG and even the Disney company as a whole. And I think we really need to start asking them why they are doing this, since there have been no good reasons yet to close VMK but plenty of reasons why it should stay open.

It's not 50th anniversary anymore?! Gosh, we better close down that promotion we started and upset thousands of children!
 
Interesting article. I agree that the numbers may be a bit dodgy, but it's still interesting hypothesising. One thing though, if it was Sulake pulling the plug, why did Disney not just out and say this? Instead of giving us the limp and pitiful "we've only just noticed that the anniversary is over", they could have blamed someone else. All right, this might seem a bit like mud-slinging, but surely that would be easier for fans to swallow than the "we got bored" attitude? I'm not sure what to believe on this one anymore.
 
Interesting article. I agree that the numbers may be a bit dodgy, but it's still interesting hypothesising. One thing though, if it was Sulake pulling the plug, why did Disney not just out and say this? Instead of giving us the limp and pitiful "we've only just noticed that the anniversary is over", they could have blamed someone else. All right, this might seem a bit like mud-slinging, but surely that would be easier for fans to swallow than the "we got bored" attitude? I'm not sure what to believe on this one anymore.

I was thinking about this too. Maybe they aren't allowed to say that Sulake ended it for some reason? I don't see whats wrong in that. As long as you say it in a polite manner, not like "Oh sorry players but you know the company called Sulake? Well they're ending this so yeah. Don't get mad at us, we're sorry too. Send your mails and pleas to Sulake..not us. Ok? Keep believing in the magic!" Hehe..they're never gonna say that but Sulake is pretty lucky right now for not getting the bad publicity.
 
I was thinking about this too. Maybe they aren't allowed to say that Sulake ended it for some reason? I don't see whats wrong in that. As long as you say it in a polite manner, not like "Oh sorry players but you know the company called Sulake? Well they're ending this so yeah. Don't get mad at us, we're sorry too. Send your mails and pleas to Sulake..not us. Ok? Keep believing in the magic!" Hehe..they're never gonna say that but Sulake is pretty lucky right now for not getting the bad publicity.

::yes:: Yes, I would hope Disney would be above taking that attitude (though no one really knows), but you're right, they could have said it politely. A simple "unfortunately our contract with Sulake has run out and cannot be renewed" would go down better with most players than "oopsie, where did that darned anniversary get to? It was here last time we looked!".

The only reason I can think of for them not blaming Sulake, if it's true, is if they were contractually obliged not to. But would anyone in Disney really sign a contract that said "If we pull the plug, you can't point the finger at us" (yes, that is technical law terminology, I live with a law student, I should know ;))?

Hmm... I'm still not convinced that it wasn't a decision made by suits, who have little concept of the real potential and worth of the game. I mean, on paper this game looks like a massive financial drain; it's only when you start to consider the number of park trips, DVD purchases and pin sales attached to it that you realise how big this really is. If they couldn't see these 'hidden gains', you can understand why they'd pull the plug (not that I'm saying this is sensible, in fact, if this is the reason, it is incredibly moronic).
 
That is insane! It makes me wonder what Walt would have done. Would he have abandoned so many loyal Disney fans in an established game that generates interest in his creations just to "buy" new subscribers. I like to think he would have thought that cost too great.

IMO I think he would have left VMK as is, and still aquired CP as they could eventually have complemented each other. I do not believe he would have sacrificed Disney fans on the altar of the all mighty dollar.

Please do not confuse my current negativity towards Disney as anti-Disney sentiments. I am what I refer to as an original "Disney Era" fan, long before money contaminated the magic.
 












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