Visiting 1st time since FP+ implemented....

[DisneyKidds]

LT, I assume you waited on the kiosk line in the picture, as you stated it took 20 minutes. Have you ever used any other kiosks?

 

[Hokie2000]

And there you have it! No need to run around the park. See where this discussion goes? First, it was, "you have to run all over the park". Then it is "OK. There were time boards, but not as many as I would have liked." Well? Which is it. None, or some?

The powers of observation are quite powerful, Grasshopper. To snatch the marble from my hand, one must first observe.

Documented? Or stated with hyperbolic screeching. How could I have been a super-user of FP- for over 100+ days during its existence and never run around the park, when it is "documented" that this was the pathway to success? How could my siblings, one of whom worked at WDW for 12 years, have been FP- experts without ever having done this? I am not so full of myself as to think that I am "extra special" and was able to beat the system in a way that no one else was able to accomplish. Running around for Fast Passes? No. Not the norm. At worst it was: "I'll give you my lunch order for Cosmic Ray's, and while you are in line for the food, I will WALK over to Space Mountain and grab some Fast Passes for later today. I will meet you at the table if you beat me, or join you in line if I beat you." I will readily admit to doing this. Daily. But I will not budge an inch on the "run all over the park" hysteria. Never did it. Never witnessed it.

I didn't say you had to run all over the park. But you did say time boards "all around" the parks. This was a bit of an overstatement, was it not?

Did you spend the majority of your days people-watching? Again, how do you know what people were doing before/after they pulled their paper FPs?

Running was the common term for going to get fastpasses, hence FP "runner." It does not mean people actually, physically RAN.

Down the memory hole. We have always been at war with Eastasia. We have never been at war with Eurasia.

I've said before and I'll say it again - I don't think I used FP- all that efficiently. But why does that matter now? FP- is gone, I can't go back and change the way I used it. I didn't complain about FP- while it was the system in place, and I certainly had nothing to do with the changes that were made. Bottom line, between the two systems I prefer FP+, NBD.

LOL on the hyperbolic screeching. Like that hasn't been happening with FP+ from the beginning?

 

[Laketravis]

I'm not going to play that game with you again, Kidd. You made an absolute statement that you never waited more than 5 minutes in line, that the picture of the line I have looks "normal", and I told you I waited in that line for 20 minutes.

Besides, I'm still waiting to hear why they stopped showing FP availability on those big bright signs that everyone can see.

 

[Mikie]

And there you have it! No need to run around the park. See where this discussion goes? First, it was, "you have to run all over the park". Then it is "OK. There were time boards, but not as many as I would have liked." Well? Which is it. None, or some?

Documented? Or stated with hyperbolic screeching. How could I have been a super-user of FP- for over 100+ days during its existence and never run around the park, when it is "documented" that this was the pathway to success? How could my siblings, one of whom worked at WDW for 12 years, have been FP- experts without ever having done this? I am not so full of myself as to think that I am "extra special" and was able to beat the system in a way that no one else was able to accomplish. Running around for Fast Passes? No. Not the norm. At worst it was: "I'll give you my lunch order for Cosmic Ray's, and while you are in line for the food, I will WALK over to Space Mountain and grab some Fast Passes for later today. I will meet you at the table if you beat me, or join you in line if I beat you." I will readily admit to doing this. Daily. But I will not budge an inch on the "run all over the park" hysteria. Never did it. Never witnessed it.

Perhaps a problem with semantics. I have always read the FP- description of "running all over the park" as a shorthand way of saying "going somewhere you otherwise weren't headed for the express purpose of grabbing a FP". Doing as you describe and splitting up the family to go to a ride you may or may not actually take the FP for (due to time of return) would fit my notion of "ran all over the park" even though you neither ran nor were all that far away. It's a shorthand and slightly negative way of describing it because I'm lazy and don't want to split from my family and do any extra walking

Same as I assume (possibly wrongly) that people who bemoan "only" getting 3 rides under FP+ aren't trying to say they only ride anything with a FP and are never willing to stand in any SB line. I figured they're using A shorthand and slightly negative way of saying your overall ability to ride favorites without long waits has been reduced to 3 guaranteed and a crapshoot after that.

 

[JimmyV]

I didn't say you had to run all over the park. But you did say time boards "all around" the parks. This was a bit of an overstatement, was it not?

No. You interpreted it as such. "All around" is a geographic qualifier, not a numeric quantifier.

Did you spend the majority of your days people-watching? Again, how do you know what people were doing before/after they pulled their paper FPs?

One does not have to be a full time observer to witness people running and darting in and out of crowds to get to FP machines. WDW is so crowded on any given day that if people were actually running from place to place, it would be readily apparent to even the most casual observer.

Running was the common term for going to get fastpasses, hence FP "runner." It does not mean people actually, physically RAN.

I will agree with the "runner" part, for sure. But there are countless people in these threads who have consistently referred to "running", and not just to "runners". It is hard to interpret "running all over the parks to get Fast Passes" to mean "casually strolling short distances to obtain Fast Passes." If that is what people truly mean, than I apologize and stand corrected. But there are simply too many references to "running all over the parks" to think that people actually mean something less severe.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm not going to play that game with you again, Kidd. You made an absolute statement that you never waited more than 5 minutes in line, that the picture of the line I have looks "normal", and I told you I waited in that line for 20 minutes. Besides, I'm still waiting to hear why they stopped showing FP availability on those big bright signs that everyone can see.

I think you are confused, LT.

 

[JimmyV]

Perhaps a problem with semantics. I have always read the FP- description of "running all over the park" as a shorthand way of saying "going somewhere you otherwise weren't headed for the express purpose of grabbing a FP". Doing as you describe and splitting up the family to go to a ride you may or may not actually take the FP for (due to time of return) would fit my notion of "ran all over the park" even though you neither ran nor were all that far away. It's a shorthand and slightly negative way of describing it because I'm lazy and don't want to split from my family and do any extra walking

I will grant you that. But if one did as I described earlier, (i.e., go to Space Mountain FP machines while wife got food at Cosmic Rays), would it be anything less than hyperbolic screeching to say that I "ran all over the park" to get that Fast Pass? I mean, seriously. Cosmic Rays to Space Mountain? Or Pecos Bill's and Thunder Mountain? If there were actually people traversing entire parks for the purpose of getting Fast Passes, then the fault was with them and not the system. Besides, doesn't one have to walk this same distance (or more) now to obtain their 4th-10th FPs from the the kiosks?

 

[mom2rtk]

Drink!

You know, a while back I said I was going to take a drink every time someone used TSMM as the example for why FP+ was needed.

We might end up needing to do a 12 step program together.

 

[MrInfinity]

And Fuzzy is routinely making the exact same claim that he's never waited more than 5 minutes in a kiosk line.

Actually, I was hoping you did, 'cause Fuzzy already confirmed my pic was "normal".

I just asked you what your point of the picture was. If you don't want to share further, that's fine.

8 people waited in a line for something at Disney World? A line which would take about 5 minutes... And you're using this picture to be indicative of one of the busiest FP kiosks among all the parks, thereby implying (?) most have even shorter waits? I really don't get what you're going for. You say lines are long, but you post a picture of one of the busiest lines and it has like 8 families in it and doesn't look particularly crowded.

[insert derogatory remarks by random voiceover actor here]

 

[Hokie2000]

No. You interpreted it as such. "All around" is a geographic qualifier, not a numeric quantifier.

One does not have to be a full time observer to witness people running and darting in and out of crowds to get to FP machines. WDW is so crowded on any given day that if people were actually running from place to place, it would be readily apparent to even the most casual observer.

I will agree with the "runner" part, for sure. But there are countless people in these threads who have consistently referred to "running", and not just to "runners". It is hard to interpret "running all over the parks to get Fast Passes" to mean "casually strolling short distances to obtain Fast Passes." If that is what people truly mean, than I apologize and stand corrected. But there are simply too many references to "running all over the parks" to think that people actually mean something less severe.

Mikie explained it better than I did. I always take it as he described and yes it is hyperbole, however calling it screeching is even more hyperbole. No one is immune .

Hardly anyone was actually running. People did make a special trip to the FP machine for the express purpose of getting FPs. Whether that was a big deal or not is up to the individual. With FP+ most people avoid this step for 3 FPs. Everyone still has to do it for any additional FPs. Pretty much sums it up?

 

[JimmyV]

Pretty much sums it up?

Yes. It does. When people, (not directed at you), said "running", they didn't actually mean "running". They really meant walking. And when they said "all over the park", they didn't actually mean from one end of the park to the other, but instead meant only that they had to go a short distance. And when people had to take a divergent path to get a FP before it was a bad thing, but when they have to do it now, it is a good thing. I think I get it now. I knew that having read "1984" and "The Trial" would come in handy one day.

 

[MrInfinity]

Yes. It does. When people, (not directed at you), said "running", they didn't actually mean "running". They really meant walking. And when people had to take a divergent path to get a FP before it was a bad thing, but when they have to do it now, it is a good thing. I think I get it now. I knew that having read "1984" and "The Trial" would come in handy one day.

And terms like "Runner" and "Commando" developed in the first place because the typical person who used FP- particularly well would move to the back of the rope drop so his kids could watch the Mickey and Minnie show, then sauntered casually in to the park and bought slushies before looking for that first ticket.

 

[JimmyV]

and bought slushies before looking for that first ticket.

Food before Fast Passes? Heresy!

 

[Laketravis]

I think you are confused, LT.

You're right - I often confuse you and Fuzzy for one in the same, especially during a drinking game.

I just asked you what your point of the picture was. If you don't want to share further, that's fine.

But I did answer your question. You stated that you never stood in a kiosk line for more than 5 minutes. I showed a picture of a kiosk line. You said that line looked normal and that you never waited more than 5 minutes. I told you I waited 20 minutes in that line. You wanted to know why I keep posting that picture. I told you I post that picture every time you say you never waited more than 5 minutes in a kiosk line. And thus the drinking game began. If it's hard for you to follow now, just wait till I get a few more beers in you!

Drink!

 

[Hokie2000]

Yes. It does. When people, (not directed at you), said "running", they didn't actually mean "running". They really meant walking. And when people had to take a divergent path to get a FP before it was a bad thing, but when they have to do it now, it is a good thing. I think I get it now. I knew that having read "1984" and "The Trial" would come in handy one day.

Having read 1984 will always come in handy I haven't read The Trial, though, I'll put it on the list.

I don't think most people (including me) thought that going to get old FP- was a bad thing, it was just something you did. But looking back I'm glad the option exists to avoid that step now. Since I'm not that worried about additional FPs I probably won't ever go out of my way to use the kiosks anyway.

Hindsight is 20/20 and FP- at WDW is gone like yesterday. Facts.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't think most people (including me) thought that going to get old FP- was a bad thing, it was just something you did. But looking back I'm glad the option exists to avoid that step now. Since I'm not that worried about additional FPs I probably won't ever go out of my way to use the kiosks anyway.

And this is what is so odd and frustrating about the "FP- required running all over the park" mantra. As you correctly note, once the user of FP+ levels up to "extra FP mode", they have to "run around the park" to get to kiosks. Pretty much the same as before. So that is a net zero. So was the "running around the park" more bothersome under FP- when looking to obtain FPs 1, 2 and 3? Well, since FP+ requires none, it would seem to be an insurmountable advantage there. The best one can do is "tie". Can't beat it. So let's look at what really happened. Most people were seeking to obtain FPs in order to repeat rides, or perhaps to get a FP for a headliner that was close to where they already were. For example, many people would head straight to TSMM and "pull and then ride". Or "ride and then pull". So FP #1 was obtained without going out of one's way at all. The machine was right there where you were headed. And if you headed down Hollywood Boulevard, you would "ride one and FP the other" when it came to ToT and RnR. The rides are right there. No "running around the park". Same was true for BTMRR and Splash. Or Buzz and Space Mountain. I can't possibly be the only person who did this, can I? I will concede that there was one park where FP strategy was somewhat difficult and that was AK where one wanted a FP for both the Safari and then one for Everest. You either waited to get the second of the two, or I suppose, a "runner" could head off to the far reaches of the park to get passes for one ride while the rest of the family headed off in the opposite direction. This always seemed to be a losing strategy to me, so we never did it. As long as you went to the Safari first thing and then got to Everest within 45 minutes of park opening, you could ride back-to-back-to back without needing a FP.

So what I am saying is that in practice, the first 3 FPs under the old system came rather naturally and organically the way people would tour the park. No "running all over the park" required. Unless one really wanted to, but that was their own fault. Was it more effort than booking from home? Sure. But this notion of "running all over the park was either non-existent or self-inflicted. It certainly was not a flaw in the system. So when people say: "Thank god I don't have to do that anymore", they are really just saying that Disney saved them from themselves. Nothing to be done about that!