"Virginia moving to eliminate all accelerated math courses before 11th grade as part of equity-focused plan"

[amylevan]

Huh, I wonder why so many people seem to think that Calculus is a prerequisite for Statistics?

While I don’t believe that is, if you want to take both without taking 2 maths at the same time, 1 has to come before the other. For some reason, most seem to do Calc first.

And for my kids school district, admittance into AP stats required a certain grade in Calc.

 

[Makmak]

@DLgal referenced above. A little bit of each discipline intertwined into every grade level. Great if you live in the state all throughout HS, not so great if you move in or out during HS!
[/QUOTE]
You have made a very important point. In certain parts of VA we have a huge military population, this means we have lots of moving in/out so that will be really interesting to see how that will be approached.
For fellow Virginians I was just thinking:
It’s already extremely complicated here with all the “academies” that are just subsets of students within a school which also contains “non academy” students at the same time. I wonder how that will balance with the equity movement? Weren’t the academy curriculum requirements different/separate? I hear about the academy concept from my college students and find it very confusing. One student was very proud to tell me that she earned “IB” but could not tell me what it stood for so I began to become concerned about the whole thing.

 

[Cheburashka]

I’m also a teacher (English), and as I read I saw “enrichment opportunities” and “differentiated instruction”...That means individualized lessons for each student, and that makes it very hard on the teacher!

I'm a teacher, too, and from what I've seen, "enrichment opportunities" and "differentiated instruction" are lip service terms that in reality mean whatever extra instruction or activities the teacher is able to cobble together in her spare time. School districts typically don't assess for differentiation, so there isn't going to be a lot of pressure on the teacher to carry it out. It's impossible to teach 20+ different lessons to one class in one period, so an individualized lesson for each student simply isn't going to happen.

For a single teacher to deliver full-period lessons on a totally different level, there needs to be a separate class.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I'm definitely not one for pushing the general curriculum down and making all kids to do everything earlier and earlier. (I do think we do too much of that!)

But I also don't think we should prevent kids from skipping ahead in a subject if it's a particular interest for them. (Reminds me of that Rush song about the trees...)

 

[Cheburashka]

My comment about seeking enrichment elsewhere stands no matter what your school's curriculum is.
If you find your child needs more than the school is offering them, then you find other ways to give it to them.

And what about the children who need more than the school is offering them, whose parents cannot or will not give it to them? Where is the equity in that? There are many very bright poor kids in our schools (I know, I'm a teacher) who excel in advanced classes and use that success and intellectual stimulation as a springboard to go far in life. Take that away from them and they have nothing to fall back on. No outside classes or private schools or tutors for them. Taking advanced options out of free public schools is the opposite of equity.

 

[Skywalker]

It's amusing that when people think of skipping college, they automatically think plumber or electrician. How about starting a business? With the 200k + we'll be shelling out for a 4 year degree, that would open the doors to many business opportunities.

My 12 yr old is an A student, good in math and science, and everything else. Great. She also states vehemently that she doesn't want to go to college. Sure she may change her mind but if she doesn't I'm not going to worry about it.

I think later in life people end up realizing their anxiety over their kid being in the most advanced classes was a huge waste of time and energy. I have personally seen a lot of successful people with mediocre grades in HS and even college (lack of college degree too).

I so agree with this. My oldest brother only had a high school diploma, he started a small business that has grown into a big deal and he is a very rich man today. Meanwhile, I have some friends with degrees who are baristas at Starbucks. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but college isn't everything, even though we've been indoctrinated to think it is.

 

[bcla]

While I don’t believe that is, if you want to take both without taking 2 maths at the same time, 1 has to come before the other. For some reason, most seem to do Calc first.

And for my kids school district, admittance into AP stats required a certain grade in Calc.

I had a high school classmate who arrived in the US as an immigrant. I believe that his classes from Pakistan didn't quite transfer and he ended up taking geometry (normally 10th grade) and algebra 2 (normally 11th grade) in the 11th grade and pre-calculus/trig (normally 12th grade) and calculus (for advanced students) in the 12th. I didn't quite get how he did it since the series are supposed to all be cascading prerequisites for the next class.

By "normally" I mean the standard time, although college track students typically could get a head start by taking algebra 1 in the 8th grade.

 

[KingAugie]

And what about the children who need more than the school is offering them, whose parents cannot or will not give it to them? Where is the equity in that? There are many very bright poor kids in our schools (I know, I'm a teacher) who excel in advanced classes and use that success and intellectual stimulation as a springboard to go far in life. Take that away from them and they have nothing to fall back on. No outside classes or private schools or tutors for them. Taking advanced options out of free public schools is the opposite of equity.

I had a different response but since your claim here is false there's no point.
The school isn't taking advanced options away- they are only changing the time in which a student can take them.

 

[mjkacmom]

Interesting. My school district only offered AP Calc I. Worked for my brother, sister, husband, and BIL who are all engineers. They all took Calc II Freshman year of college. Worked for me too. I didn't go into Engineering, but it did save me from having to take a math course as a Freshman. I don't know what AB and BC is.

No AP Stats (we only had AP Calc, AP English, and AP Physics, no others), but it was available as an elective with Alg I as a prerequisite usually taken Sophomore or Junior Year. Seems like with this program, a student would still be allowed to take Calc and Stats.

But only one calculus? Some high schools offer calculus 3, linear algebra, or some other higher courses.

 

[mjkacmom]

While I don’t believe that is, if you want to take both without taking 2 maths at the same time, 1 has to come before the other. For some reason, most seem to do Calc first.

And for my kids school district, admittance into AP stats required a certain grade in Calc.

I think most take calculus after precalculus, stat is easier, at our school you can take AP stat as a second math after freshman year, but most choose between stat or bc calc senior year (in the most advanced math track).

 

[kiddo76]

But only one calculus? Some high schools offer calculus 3, linear algebra, or some other higher courses.

My school offered 2 Calculus classes, regular and AP. I wasn't familiar with the AB/BC distinction, but after googling it it seems my school taught AB to the regular Calc class, and BC to the AP class. I don't see the point in taking both AB and BC, as BC covers what AB does, plus more.

The only people who took Precalc were those who completed Trig, but weren't ready for Calculus.

Anything beyond that was considered college level math and my school did not offer college level courses. Students could take classes on their own at one of the local community colleges, but they had to pay for them.

Stats was a math elective that could be taken anytime after Alg 1(maybe Alg 2, I don't remember), so usually Sophomore or Junior year.

 

[kiddo76]

I had a high school classmate who arrived in the US as an immigrant. I believe that his classes from Pakistan didn't quite transfer and he ended up taking geometry (normally 10th grade) and algebra 2 (normally 11th grade) in the 11th grade and pre-calculus/trig (normally 12th grade) and calculus (for advanced students) in the 12th. I didn't quite get how he did it since the series are supposed to all be cascading prerequisites for the next class.

By "normally" I mean the standard time, although college track students typically could get a head start by taking algebra 1 in the 8th grade.

Because of schedule conflicts, I couldn't take Alg 1 in 8th grade (the class conflicted with a gifted and talented program I was in, go figure). So I doubled up on math several years.

9th - Alg 1
10th - Alg 2 and Geometry
11th - Trigonometry, Analytical Geometry
12th - AP Calc (which I guess is what some are calling BC) and Stats (since I couldn't fit it in earlier)

 

[amylevan]

The AB\BC distinction is Calc 1 and 2 college classes. Theoretically, you could just take BC and cover all of Calc 1 and 2, but our school teaches it like college : AB covers Calc 1 and BC covers Calc 2, meaning AB is a pre-req for BC. It would be a lot of material and not much depth to only take BC.

The actual AP test for BC will have questions from both.

 

[kiddo76]

The AB\BC distinction is Calc 1 and 2 college classes. Theoretically, you could just take BC and cover all of Calc 1 and 2, but our school teaches it like college : AB covers Calc 1 and BC covers Calc 2, meaning AB is a pre-req for BC. It would be a lot of material and not much depth to only take BC.

The actual AP test for BC will have questions from both.

So does your high school teach Calculus AB and BC over 2 years? In college, Calc 1 and 2 is 2 semesters, or 1 year. Why not just do BC in 1 year in highschool then?

 

[mjkacmom]

So does your high school teach Calculus AB and BC over 2 years? In college, Calc 1 and 2 is 2 semesters, or 1 year. Why not just do BC in 1 year in highschool then?

College courses move through material much faster than high school courses.

 

[kiddo76]

College courses move through material much faster than high school courses.

People are complaining about this new program being unfair to advanced students. If you need 2 whole years in high-school to cover what college does in 1 year, then you aren't really an advanced student.

 

[amylevan]

So does your high school teach Calculus AB and BC over 2 years? In college, Calc 1 and 2 is 2 semesters, or 1 year. Why not just do BC in 1 year in highschool then?

Yes it’s over 2. Namely because they don’t teach just to the test. (God forbid!). AB covers what would traditionally be Calc 1 and about half of Calc 2. BC covers Calc 2 and then dives into an intro of linear algebra.

 

[disneyjunkie]

How do you figure that? Putting kids who are really good at math in the same class as average or below average students in the definition of holding them back.
the above average kid is going to be sitting there twiddling their thumbs while The rest of the class is actually learning. It makes no sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense. It's called differentiation. Any educator that can't differentiate his/her lessons to meet the skill levels of the students, shouldn’t be in a classroom.

 

[kiddo76]

Yes it’s over 2. Namely because they don’t teach just to the test. (God forbid!). AB covers what would traditionally be Calc 1 and about half of Calc 2. BC covers Calc 2 and then dives into an intro of linear algebra.

So what credit does that get them in college?

 

[bcla]

So what credit does that get them in college?

Taking the HS class doesn’t do any of that. Only getting a required score on an AP test does that. Universities set their own standards for what they accept and how many credits that gets.Where I transferred over my AP credits, my passing score (at least a 3) on the AP Calculus BC test would be 5.3 semester units and substitute in place of the entire Math 1A/1B sequence. A passing score on AP Calculus AB would also be 5.3 units and substitute for only Math 1A. I took Math 1B anyways.

I’ve seen some oddball stuff. I didn’t apply to Caltech but had an application and looked over their AP credit list. They would only accept a 5 as a passing AP score for certain tests.

I haven’t heard of any HS class differentiated by AB or BC. We simply had a full year calculus class that would theoretically prepare us for both. Very few took the AB test at my school.