Victim of DVC Bait and Switch?

[Pirate of]

My wife and I just added on 100 points and NOW I read on this board (not from my Guide, mind you), that Saratoga Springs is going on sale next week and it will be essentially a 50 year membership (the additional 12 years).

Wouldn't it have been the Disney-thing to let me know beforehand? This seems so unfair. Is DVC all about making money and not baout making their members happy and satisfied?
Don't these memberships need to be registered or something? If they're ready to start selling then they've known about it and could have told us.

ALSO....

Our friends just came back from Disney and they visited Member Day and they thought it was another scam to get them to add-on. They said the centerpiece for the activity was an add-on party (what is that exactly?) and model room tours (sales tactic).

Plus, they seem to be going for the full court press, as I regularly receive email and direct mail encouraging me to keep making purchases. Where's the tip of the scale just to increase member appreciation? How about a ticket discount? How about benefits better than 10% of specific food locations. It's not why we joined, but geez...this is unbelievable.

Anyone's thoughts on the SS issue? Should I demand a re-write?

 

[DebbieB]

If your add-on has not closed, you should be able to cancel it.

I wouldn't call it "bait & switch", you didn't go in to buy one thing and they sold you another. More a lack of full disclosure, which I don't think they were legally obligated to tell you since it is not available for sale yet.

 

[RobDoc]

Bait and switch? If you have just purchased, you are still likely within the 30 day rescision period and can cancel your add-on without problem. They have given you no false information at all. SSR is not yet available for sale.

DVC has released no public statement about SSR beginning sales as of this time, so you are basing your assumptions on internet rumor.

If the rumor is true, the new pricing will still be $5 per point higher than what you paid- and for a resort that doesn't open for another 10 months- thus there will be no points to use until next May- you won't be able to borrow any to use sooner.

Until the new resort is registered in your state, you won't even be able to purchase unless you travel to WDW. Until the sales plan has received all neccessary governmental approval, guides are not allowed to discuss details (just call DVC on the phone right now and see how much information you'll get-1-800-800-9100).

If SSR sounds like a better deal than you already have, by all means cancel that transaction and wait until the date of the rumor to repurchase.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Originally posted by Pirate of
My wife and I just added on 100 points and NOW I read on this board (not from my Guide, mind you), that Saratoga Springs is going on sale next week and it will be essentially a 50 year membership (the additional 12 years).

The rumors of this happening have been floating around for months so this shouldn't be any surprise. We bought 150 pts at VWL last month and this move doesn't bother me whatsoever. I would rather pay the price I did and have it end in 2042 rather than pay the higher price and have it end in 2054. I will be long dead by then anyway, so could really care less.

 

[floridafam]

I don't think the guides can really talk a lot about SSR yet. My guide said very little when asked about it.

Didn't you know that it was opening up and would probably go on sale in the near future?

I am actually going to add-on this week even though I know SSR will go on sale soon with a longer contract. Why? I don't really want a DVC contract until 2054. I'll be almost 90. I will either add-on this week and/or waitlist for more VWL and Vero points.

I wouldn't fault your guide too much. He/she probably thought you would be quite happy with your add-on and didn't intend to mislead you on SSR. If it is really bothering you, call your guide. Maybe they can work something out if you truly want to wait for SSR.

You just have to decide if you want the 50 yr membership or not.

May I ask where you added on?

 

[CaptainMidnight]

You mentioned an add-on, so I guess that means your existing members. SSR has been in member news publicaiton, e-mails and on the website.

 

[Geoff_M]

No... for one thing what you describe doesn't fit the definition of "bait-n-switch". A "b-n-s" is when you are offered one item or price to attract you, and then are offered something else when you attempt to complete the business transaction. I assume you got the contract and the price you were led to believe you would get... if so, it doesn't apply in this case.

If the rumors and leaks are true, our situation is no different than lots of other business dealings. Take computers... How many of us have bought a computer... only to see it's price slashed by the maker a couple of weeks after we bought ours? Or have you purchased a car, only to have the auto maker announce a new buyer's incentive a short time later. In some cases, there's a price protection policy in place that will give you the benefit after the fact, other times there's not. If you're still in the recision window and feel wronged... then pulll the plug on the deal.

As for the DVC agents not saying anything... as others have pointed out timeshares are a heavily regulated form of real estate, due in part to lots of shady dealings in the past. I doubt they can legally breath any of the sales details to the public until all the legal paperwork is filed and approved.

 

[dianeschlicht]

If you are adding on, I can't imagine how this is bait and switch. SSR has been out there in member publications for a couple of years. It wont be available for reservations for at least another year. If I was to add on again, I wouldn't let that stop me. I see no real bait or switching tactic here at all. I assume you initiated the add on talk. If not, you were open to the discussion.

 

[vernon]

While I don't think this qualifies as a "BnS" , I understand your concern and to a degree think you have a legitimate complaint. If you can cancel your contract, which you should be able to do if it's within the last 30 days. If it's not within the last 30 days, you may still find Disney will "upgrade" you ( for want of a better phrase) to SSR, although if it's longer than 30 days ago I don't think your argument is as strong. As far as I'm aware this "rumour" has only really been reported as information from DVC reps over the last few days.

I do think , if these "rumours" turn out to be true, that it's very poor that there seem to be a number of DVC reps are telling some people about this "fact" while Disney continues to sell a product (39 years at BCV) which could be argued to be an inferior one to something that is already nailed down, but about which Disney has officially not commented upon. IMHO it would have been better to have waited until BCV had sold out and had a year's break before announcing breaking ground on SSR under the new 2054/2055 end date ( if that's how it turns out). It would have lost Disney a year on the project, but it would put an end to the claims of "fast practice" which will possibly have an effect on the sales of BCV.

 

[Caskbill]

At this point it's all guesswork.

You have no way of knowing that when you did your add-on whether your guide at that time had any information about SSR at all. And as mentioned, guides today are severely legally restricted on what they can and cannot disclose during any sales presentation to a potential purchaser.

My guess is that if they go to 50 years and $89/point, they will offer some kind of incentive for BCV sales that remain. Probably something like the differences in MB that have existed in the past between the VB, HH, and WDW properties. Face it, very few will probably pay $89/point for BCV and 12 years less if they can get SSR. While the BCV location will have some draw, I doubt it would be enough to offset the 12 years extra at SSR.

In dollars and cents, using 2003 dollars, if a point rents for $10 typically, then an extra 12 years on 150 points is equal to $18,000 (150 times 12 Times $10) in 'value', minus dues (perhaps $600/year) of $7,200 or a net perceived value of $10,800 for purchasing SSR instead of BCV, based strictly on the additional 12 years usage.

I wonder how many potential people looking at add-on's are going to wait until SSR details are officially released before making a new purchase at SSR or BCV?

 

[floridafam]

Caskbill,

So, if I we were thinking about an add-on at BCV in the next week or two, we should wait?

Do you think they have enough pts left to offer something better than the $10 MB they are offering now at BCV?

 

[PamOKW]

I'm surprised that guides have released as much information, even informally, as it's been reported they have. When BWV was being constructed they always referred to it as a "possible" DVC resort until such time as all the "i's were dotted and t's were crossed" on their license to sell.

You asked to purchase BCV. They sold you BCV. If you were interested in purchasing a different property it's your responsibility to ask about it. Right now, they cannot even sell SSR and I'm sure they can't discuss it as part of a sales closing.

If you would prefer SSR contact them right away and see if you can cancel your add-on and then wait until SSR becomes available for sale. Remember, even if sales begin in the next few weeks, they might not be available for sale in your state. NY'ers had to wait a long time after BCV sales began before they could purchase without coming down to WDW to make the purchase.

Is DVC all about making money? Yes, it is because it is a business. Member Days and the weekly meetings are enjoyable but the underlying purpose has always been to sell more. The member benefits have been roughly the same for years (ever since the free pass program stopped). We wish for more but it hasn't happened and I suspect it will not happen. If Disney didn't offer a better pass discount during these tough times at WDW, I don't see it happening.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

We do not yet have an official announcement from DVC that the new SSR points will be an additional 12 years, or the official cost. We have some comments reported from some guides, who probably weren't suppose to make the statements anyway, which brings some question to credibility. I know this doesn't help you and your specific situation, but no matter when any official announcement is made, there will always be someone who purchased just before ....

SSR has been discussed for over a year with current members. There has been tons of speculation on this board as to what that might entail, including the possibility of DVC II with a new ending date. Sorry that you just now found this resource, it is wonderful and there are many, many helpful people who post here.

SSR seems pretty far off the beaten path for us.

It'll cost you, but you can always sell your points and repurchase what you really want. When BCV does sell out, there may be interested parties for the 100 point add-on. Meanwhile, enjoy your vacations.

Hope your situation works out and you get what you want.

 

[bicker]

Originally posted by DebbieB
I wouldn't call it "bait & switch", you didn't go in to buy one thing and they sold you another. More a lack of full disclosure, which I don't think they were legally obligated to tell you since it is not available for sale yet.

More likely, they were legally prohibited from saying anything about SSR. Information about real estate transactions is closely regulated.

 

[jaysue]

BTW, Pirate Of, welcome to the DIS as I see you have posted twice

The other aspect to keep in mind is that DVC may offer extensions to 2054 or whatever date SSR is to all "legacy" DVC 2042 contract holders

I do sympathize with you and perhaps with full knolwedge you would have made a different choice....

I hope all turns out for you

Thanks
jaysue

 

[littlestar]

If you're within the cancellation and you want Saratoga, I would just cancel the add-on. There have been rumors about when it will open for sales, but nothing definite. It's not supposed to open until 2004. That's a long time to wait I think.

Personally, I don't think Saratoga is a place I would have at the top of my list to stay. I have concerns about noise, partying, and ease of gate crashers to show up at the resort with how close it is to downtown Disney. Also, if there's an additional 12 years ending date, there wouldn't be any other DVC resorts to trade to (assuming the other contracts still end in 2042). It sounds like you would be locked into staying at Saratoga only. Unless Disney offers extensions on the other DVC resorts?

I'm glad we bought where we did - close to the parks at BCV and VWL. I'm real happy with our home resorts and wouldn't trade the location we have for more years at Saratoga. Now, if DVC built a Poly DVC, then I might feel different!

Good luck!

 

[PamOKW]

On a different board there's a comment from someone considering DVC that relates to this thread. That person received a video and then got a follow-up call from a guide. The guide advised them that the only resorts for sale from Disney are Vero and BCV. The guide mentioned that a resort was planned for the Downtown Disney area but refused to provide additional information to the person even when pressed. This has been the standard behavior by guides prior to an opening of a DVC resort. Legally, they cannot talk about and/or sell anything which has not been licensed by Florida.

 

[CarolA]

Well. I knew this was going to start coming up. I think BCV is a great property just becasue of the location so the 12 years would not bother me.

As to your complaint about add on pressure, that sounds like maybe it is your guide. I was trying to think and I have gotten one postcard indicating that BCV and Vero were close to selling out in the past few months. DVC is probably in the "Daxxed if they do and daxxed if they don't postion on this". (insert your own letters here!) If they do send us stuff to get us to buy then they are being pushy! If they don't and the place we had been thinking about sells out without us doing the add on then we were ignored and people call their guide all upset.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CarolA
Well. I knew this was going to start coming up. I think BCV is a great property just becasue of the location so the 12 years would not bother me.

As to your complaint about add on pressure, that sounds like maybe it is your guide. I was trying to think and I have gotten one postcard indicating that BCV and Vero were close to selling out in the past few months. DVC is probably in the "Daxxed if they do and daxxed if they don't postion on this". (insert your own letters here!) If they do send us stuff to get us to buy then they are being pushy! If they don't and the place we had been thinking about sells out without us doing the add on then we were ignored and people call their guide all upset.

Sales preasure and DVC is a laugh. Even the most aggressive of DVC guides is lightweight compared to industry standards.

As far as Bait and Switch, no, not even if it was your first contact with DVC. Does the car dealer tell you to wait until the new models come out, doubtful. How about the computer store, not likely. My guess is you're already closed and past your chance to cancel. If that's the case, just enjoy it. If not, decide what you want to do but remember the price is rumored to go up for SSR before points start selling.

 

[JLS]

I agree that this was not a "bait and switch" or a dupe by DVC. Think of it this way - DVC does not inform you before you buy that you could probably get the same product for less money if you bought resale. Yet they know that is true. Does that mean that you were deceived? No. This is a rule known as caveat emptor - "let the buyer beware." But if you don't think you got what you really wanted, you should definitely cancel your contract and look into buying Saratoga.