VGF worth the Money ? Why I think YES!!!

[Dean]

Dean,

We've seen a lot of comments in this thread about the demand for VGF as it relates to the percentage of units sold. Can you please talk a little about how DVD makes units available for rental as the resort continues to sell? I know you'll do a much better job at it than I will, and I think it's an important point. Thanks!

I'll try, though you might do better than I. I'm not sure DVD has ever specifically stated the exact process they use but the principles are pretty straight forward. Technically it's really no different than any other resort. Any part not declared is theirs to do with what they wish including they could keep them and not rent them out if they chose. Once they're declared, cash rentals come under one of several baskets. These baskets are:

1. The one I mentioned above, those that are undeclared. This is essentially like putting up a wall and blocking those units from the rest. So instead of say 100 units available for a given week (ignoring the fixed week issue), there's be only say 75 and DVD would retain their % for each and every week.
2. DVC retains 2-4% (they've never specifically addressed this formally on how they make this determination). The unsold inventory is used for maint but any excess is also theirs to do with as they wish including rental, VIP, CM stays, RCI or BVTC exchanges and rentals.
3. Direct RCI and BVTC exchanges though as a rule, these would not be available for rent (but there are exceptions), just not available to the members for reservation.
4. Any points given up by members for cash exchanges are slated for rental to pay for the cash type exchanges.
5. Any points they own as part of the ROFR system, foreclosures and the like could and likely would be used as rentals until sold.
6. Breakage inventory which can actually be take up to 11 months out though for VGF I doubt it will.

For declared inventory, DVC/DVD would come under the same rules as the rest of us including the 11/7 month priority. Obviously they have a potential advantage on that reservation process, my info suggests they've not taken unfair advantage of their access historically but who knows. So any VGF owner that exchanges out could be a source of RCI VGF inventory prior to the 7 month window opening though it's likely DVC will take those points and use them under the 7 month priority MOST of the time. Theoretically any owner who exchanges out or can reserve at any time can cause a deposit or can rent out the time. I've heard rumors that RCI requires a certain number of deposit over time for a resort to stay in good standing but I don't know if it's accurate or if they'd require this of DVC.

That's the technical stuff but realistically I think VGF will be less effected than most other resorts in this area unless anything they retain is a fixed week. I believe VGF will have far less breakage than most resorts, will have less availability than most for anyone to play around with and simply being smaller decreases the numbers. However, there will almost certainly be issues that some may find offensive. Reserve high demand then rent out by owners there, get a unit here and there at 7 months then rent it out by non VGF DVC owners, and a few deposits to RCI. We'll almost certainly see the "I can't get in but it's for rent" complaints more so compared to other resorts.

 

[Thisdman]

I'll try, though you might do better than I. I'm not sure DVD has ever specifically stated the exact process they use but the principles are pretty straight forward. Technically it's really no different than any other resort. Any part not declared is theirs to do with what they wish including they could keep them and not rent them out if they chose. Once they're declared, cash rentals come under one of several baskets. These baskets are:

1. The one I mentioned above, those that are undeclared. This is essentially like putting up a wall and blocking those units from the rest. So instead of say 100 units available for a given week (ignoring the fixed week issue), there's be only say 75 and DVD would retain their % for each and every week.
2. DVC retains 2-4% (they've never specifically addressed this formally on how they make this determination). The unsold inventory is used for maint but any excess is also theirs to do with as they wish including rental, VIP, CM stays, RCI or BVTC exchanges and rentals.
3. Direct RCI and BVTC exchanges though as a rule, these would not be available for rent (but there are exceptions), just not available to the members for reservation.
4. Any points given up by members for cash exchanges are slated for rental to pay for the cash type exchanges.
5. Any points they own as part of the ROFR system, foreclosures and the like could and likely would be used as rentals until sold.
6. Breakage inventory which can actually be take up to 11 months out though for VGF I doubt it will.

For declared inventory, DVC/DVD would come under the same rules as the rest of us including the 11/7 month priority. Obviously they have a potential advantage on that reservation process, my info suggests they've not taken unfair advantage of their access historically but who knows. So any VGF owner that exchanges out could be a source of RCI VGF inventory prior to the 7 month window opening though it's likely DVC will take those points and use them under the 7 month priority MOST of the time. Theoretically any owner who exchanges out or can reserve at any time can cause a deposit or can rent out the time. I've heard rumors that RCI requires a certain number of deposit over time for a resort to stay in good standing but I don't know if it's accurate or if they'd require this of DVC.

That's the technical stuff but realistically I think VGF will be less effected than most other resorts in this area unless anything they retain is a fixed week. I believe VGF will have far less breakage than most resorts, will have less availability than most for anyone to play around with and simply being smaller decreases the numbers. However, there will almost certainly be issues that some may find offensive. Reserve high demand then rent out by owners there, get a unit here and there at 7 months then rent it out by non VGF DVC owners, and a few deposits to RCI. We'll almost certainly see the "I can't get in but it's for rent" complaints more so compared to other resorts.

It's apparent my prepurchase due diligence was woefully inadequate. Until this thread I didn't even know what RCI was. I still don't and haven't found the time to figure it out. I also didn't fully take into account DVD and the amount of control they have over this entire process. I knew I had the option to rent out my points if I chose to and considered this option even if we have no immediate plans to do so, circumstances change over time. I have no problem with non owners booking VGF and then renting out those nights. I like the freedom offered ALL owners to do what they want with their points. I knew about resale and looked at that heavily but I should have thought more about bubbles in the pricing and potential current premium pricing. I'm sure there is more I'm missing. This is a great thread for those considering a purchase. We got into the weeds a bit but I think that's a good thing for those that are trying to get the full story. One question to Dean and ELMC, do you guys own at VGF? I apologize if you already answered this but it would be comforting to know that even the most experienced time share owners thought it worthy to buy in.

 

[ELMC]

It's apparent my prepurchase due diligence was woefully inadequate. Until this thread I didn't even know what RCI was. I still don't and haven't found the time to figure it out. I also didn't fully take into account DVD and the amount of control they have over this entire process. I knew I had the option to rent out my points if I chose to and considered this option even if we have no immediate plans to do so, circumstances change over time. I have no problem with non owners booking VGF and then renting out those nights. I like the freedom offered ALL owners to do what they want with their points. I knew about resale and looked at that heavily but I should have thought more about bubbles in the pricing and potential current premium pricing. I'm sure there is more I'm missing. This is a great thread for those considering a purchase. We got into the weeds a bit but I think that's a good thing for those that are trying to get the full story. One question to Dean and ELMC, do you guys own at VGF? I apologize if you already answered this but it would be comforting to know that even the most experienced time share owners thought it worthy to buy in.

First off, I wouldn't put myself in the same conversation as Dean when it comes to experience with timeshares. I have owned DVC for several years and have researched just about every aspect of it unto death. I also own Marriott Vacation Club but I don't know as much about that program as I do DVC. Dean, on the other hand, has in depth knowledge of at least four systems and probably more. But thanks for the compliment!

Now on to VGF. The short answer is no, I don't own there. I thought seriously about buying there but in the end I decided against it. Here's why.

When it comes to DVC I have four criteria when considering a purchase. The first is exit strategy. The second is desirability of location. The third is cost. The fourth is viable alternatives. Any purchase I make has to hit at least three of those categories in order for me to move forward.

1) Exit strategy. I have had the experience long long ago of buying a timeshare that instantly lost most of its cash value. We own Marriott Vacation Club. We stay at Marriott properties every year or every other year, and we love each and every one. We make great use of our timeshare. That being said, if I ever wanted to get rid of it I would get back 20% of my purchase price. I don't like that, so it's a mistake I am not looking to repeat. So when I look at a DVC property, I look at exit strategies. Currently I own BWV at $68pp, BLT at $80pp and SSR for $58pp. (Those are purchase amounts, the actual cost is much lower when you factor in that each contract came with three year's worth of calendar year current points.) I can sell each of these and get my money back if I wanted to, and I place a lot of value in that.

In the case of VGF, it actually passes the exit strategy test. I figured that if I bought at $150 a point, I could get a couple years use out of it (at a net gain of about $8 per point as conservatively calculated by market value of points less maintenance fees) and probably get $120 back per point. So a slight loss, but nothing to cry over.

2) Desirability of location. VGF actually fails this criteria for me. I think in the long run I will be proven wrong on this, but for the time being, it failed. I have never stayed there, so I don't know how good it is or how much I would like it. I didn't want to buy based on speculation, so I couldn't make an informed decision. Plus, my personal goal is to never have to set foot on Disney transportation while at the World. It's just a personal thing. I don't like having to wait for buses, having to deal with monorail closures, etc. I am super high maintenance, I get that. So that's why we stay at BLT and BWV, because we can walk to three of the parks. (We rent a car and drive to AK when we go there). With VGF you have to take a boat or a monorail to get to the MK.

3) Cost. This is self explanatory. Do I feel like I'm getting a bargain? While owning VGF is a good deal for those who continuously like to stay there, I have never stayed there and so therefore I cannot place a dollar value on it. However, at the $150 per point buy in cost, the number of years it would take to break even vs. staying there using my SSR points is too long. If I get to stay there, great. If not there's always next year. To me the additional cost wasn't worth the 11 month booking window and the right to virtually guarantee the ability to stay there. But that's a very personal decision and it's based on the fact that I have never stayed there. For GF loyalists, I think that purchasing VGF DVC is a good way to go, all things considered.

4) Viable alternatives. This one is also in VGF's favor. Your have several alternatives when choosing how to stay there. The first is booking cash. Even with a discount DVC will most likely be less expensive long term, so that's not a viable alternative. Resale? Not an alternative. Staying there at the 7 month window? Possible but not probable. So if my motivation is to stay at the VGF on a consistent basis, purchasing VGF DVC is the way to go.

So there you have it, a very, very long winded answer to a very simple question. But I think what it illustrates is that each purchasing decision is very personal and there are a multitude of variables to consider. I will say this...I have said multiple times before that I cannot think of a reason why I would ever make a direct purchase at AKV at $150 per point. The same cannot be said for VGF and I could very likely see myself changing my mind on this one and buying there in the future.

 

[Dean]

It's apparent my prepurchase due diligence was woefully inadequate. Until this thread I didn't even know what RCI was. I still don't and haven't found the time to figure it out. I also didn't fully take into account DVD and the amount of control they have over this entire process. I knew I had the option to rent out my points if I chose to and considered this option even if we have no immediate plans to do so, circumstances change over time. I have no problem with non owners booking VGF and then renting out those nights. I like the freedom offered ALL owners to do what they want with their points. I knew about resale and looked at that heavily but I should have thought more about bubbles in the pricing and potential current premium pricing. I'm sure there is more I'm missing. This is a great thread for those considering a purchase. We got into the weeds a bit but I think that's a good thing for those that are trying to get the full story. One question to Dean and ELMC, do you guys own at VGF? I apologize if you already answered this but it would be comforting to know that even the most experienced time share owners thought it worthy to buy in.

That's in large part what we've been saying. You don't know what you don't know and there are many nuances that might affect one's decision. That's why I feel you need to investigate long enough to get past much of the hype. I feel it takes a good 6 months of active investigation and at least some knowledge/experience of a combination of DVC/timeshares/Disney. For example, someone who has a basic working knowledge of the true side of timeshares (not simply assumptions) and has 10 years of Disney stays in moderates and deluxe should be able to concentrate on the nuts and bolts of what DVC does/does not include and what the compromises, risks and options are involved in DVC as a timeshare. Someone who had a couple of Disney trips years ago and toured while on their honeymoon with no knowledge to timeshares might take 2-3 years to get enough real info to make decisions and even that assumes they rent or pay cash for a few trips staying at DVC. However, even for the post analytical, knowledgeable and experienced persons out there, there's no way to control future actions or ultimate preferences. We've seen many reports of one who thought X resort was their cat's meow only to figure out later they had other preferences. For us, our preferences have changed over the years and we prefer different resorts for different things. Fortunately there's no resort we're unhappy to stay at (only room types that we try to avoid). Since we're empty nesters we usually let the RCI exchange gods determine where and when we're staying and use the points we own to round out those stays or for a weekend here and there renting any leftover. The other variable is that life can happen. One should at least consider what happens if the family loses one or more incomes or there are other major disasters that happen.

I personally don't own there (BWV333/AKV4*25). I considered it but elected against it in part due to the fact we're currently building a house and the financial constraints involved. Had I bought, it would have been day one for an early Dec fixed week in a 2 BR and I would have rented it on off times that we didn't use it in one way or another reserve first then rent. My personal usage would likely have been to take the points year 1 then try to rebook for the following year with those points then taking points the next year once successful. Basically rolling the fixed week forward saving the extra fixed week points.

 

[SuperRob]

I own just 60 points at SSR. I just got a full WEEK in a VGF studio at the seven month mark. It was the LAST one, but it was doable. It's also the second week of September, and only spans one weekend, and that might have helped.

So while this will certainly get tougher as they sell more points, it just isn't accurate to say you'll NEVER get a room at seven months for more than a day or two. Highly unlikely, yes, but not impossible.

Best part is that it only cost us about $135 a night factoring in the cost basis of our points and the five one-time use points we had to buy. That's a steal for a room at the Grand Floridian (normally $493 a night).

So yes, it might be rare that you could get the room, but given the savings over having to buy there to do it, I'll stick with my SSR contract for the time being.

 

[disneynutz]

We bought a fixed week at VGF because we really like the GF, the location and the upscale amenities of the resort. We also own BLT, AKV, BCV, BWV, and VWL and we don't have an exit strategy, my assumption is that it will be worth zero when we sell.

For us the resort is as important if not more important that the parks. The DVC allows us to stay in a 1 bedroom with 2 people or a 2 bedroom with 3 or 4 people. We like our space, the room and the views are important.

Owning at our favorites allows us to book where we want, when we want, no waitlist, transfers, walking reservations, and fewer disappointments.

Bill

 

[Dean]

We bought a fixed week at VGF because we really like the GF, the location and the upscale amenities of the resort. We also own BLT, AKV, BCV, BWV, and VWL and we don't have an exit strategy, my assumption is that it will be worth zero when we sell.

For us the resort is as important if not more important that the parks. The DVC allows us to stay in a 1 bedroom with 2 people or a 2 bedroom with 3 or 4 people. We like our space, the room and the views are important.

Owning at our favorites allows us to book where we want, when we want, no waitlist, transfers, walking reservations, and fewer disappointments.

Bill

Bill, I think it's reasonable to consider it but I would not think expecting to sell a good plan going in. IMO if owning forever or for the life of the RTU doesn't make sense, one likely shouldn't buy. Still, it's good to have potential options going forward and that's really how I take most who talk about an exit strategy type situation. One thing I think many forget going in is that 30-50 years is a long time. There are many risks and things that could happen or change in that period and almost all of them are negative to owning.

 

[Thisdman]

First off, I wouldn't put myself in the same conversation as Dean when it comes to experience with timeshares. I have owned DVC for several years and have researched just about every aspect of it unto death. I also own Marriott Vacation Club but I don't know as much about that program as I do DVC. Dean, on the other hand, has in depth knowledge of at least four systems and probably more. But thanks for the compliment!

Now on to VGF. The short answer is no, I don't own there. I thought seriously about buying there but in the end I decided against it. Here's why.

When it comes to DVC I have four criteria when considering a purchase. The first is exit strategy. The second is desirability of location. The third is cost. The fourth is viable alternatives. Any purchase I make has to hit at least three of those categories in order for me to move forward.

1) Exit strategy. I have had the experience long long ago of buying a timeshare that instantly lost most of its cash value. We own Marriott Vacation Club. We stay at Marriott properties every year or every other year, and we love each and every one. We make great use of our timeshare. That being said, if I ever wanted to get rid of it I would get back 20% of my purchase price. I don't like that, so it's a mistake I am not looking to repeat. So when I look at a DVC property, I look at exit strategies. Currently I own BWV at $68pp, BLT at $80pp and SSR for $58pp. (Those are purchase amounts, the actual cost is much lower when you factor in that each contract came with three year's worth of calendar year current points.) I can sell each of these and get my money back if I wanted to, and I place a lot of value in that.

In the case of VGF, it actually passes the exit strategy test. I figured that if I bought at $150 a point, I could get a couple years use out of it (at a net gain of about $8 per point as conservatively calculated by market value of points less maintenance fees) and probably get $120 back per point. So a slight loss, but nothing to cry over.

2) Desirability of location. VGF actually fails this criteria for me. I think in the long run I will be proven wrong on this, but for the time being, it failed. I have never stayed there, so I don't know how good it is or how much I would like it. I didn't want to buy based on speculation, so I couldn't make an informed decision. Plus, my personal goal is to never have to set foot on Disney transportation while at the World. It's just a personal thing. I don't like having to wait for buses, having to deal with monorail closures, etc. I am super high maintenance, I get that. So that's why we stay at BLT and BWV, because we can walk to three of the parks. (We rent a car and drive to AK when we go there). With VGF you have to take a boat or a monorail to get to the MK.

3) Cost. This is self explanatory. Do I feel like I'm getting a bargain? While owning VGF is a good deal for those who continuously like to stay there, I have never stayed there and so therefore I cannot place a dollar value on it. However, at the $150 per point buy in cost, the number of years it would take to break even vs. staying there using my SSR points is too long. If I get to stay there, great. If not there's always next year. To me the additional cost wasn't worth the 11 month booking window and the right to virtually guarantee the ability to stay there. But that's a very personal decision and it's based on the fact that I have never stayed there. For GF loyalists, I think that purchasing VGF DVC is a good way to go, all things considered.

4) Viable alternatives. This one is also in VGF's favor. Your have several alternatives when choosing how to stay there. The first is booking cash. Even with a discount DVC will most likely be less expensive long term, so that's not a viable alternative. Resale? Not an alternative. Staying there at the 7 month window? Possible but not probable. So if my motivation is to stay at the VGF on a consistent basis, purchasing VGF DVC is the way to go.

So there you have it, a very, very long winded answer to a very simple question. But I think what it illustrates is that each purchasing decision is very personal and there are a multitude of variables to consider. I will say this...I have said multiple times before that I cannot think of a reason why I would ever make a direct purchase at AKV at $150 per point. The same cannot be said for VGF and I could very likely see myself changing my mind on this one and buying there in the future.

Now this is a post. People, myself included, would do well to heed this advise. I hope this is read by many. Thank you for taking the time to share your thought process and rest well tonight, you have helped people today.

 

[Thisdman]

That's in large part what we've been saying. You don't know what you don't know and there are many nuances that might affect one's decision. That's why I feel you need to investigate long enough to get past much of the hype. I feel it takes a good 6 months of active investigation and at least some knowledge/experience of a combination of DVC/timeshares/Disney. For example, someone who has a basic working knowledge of the true side of timeshares (not simply assumptions) and has 10 years of Disney stays in moderates and deluxe should be able to concentrate on the nuts and bolts of what DVC does/does not include and what the compromises, risks and options are involved in DVC as a timeshare. Someone who had a couple of Disney trips years ago and toured while on their honeymoon with no knowledge to timeshares might take 2-3 years to get enough real info to make decisions and even that assumes they rent or pay cash for a few trips staying at DVC. However, even for the post analytical, knowledgeable and experienced persons out there, there's no way to control future actions or ultimate preferences. We've seen many reports of one who thought X resort was their cat's meow only to figure out later they had other preferences. For us, our preferences have changed over the years and we prefer different resorts for different things. Fortunately there's no resort we're unhappy to stay at (only room types that we try to avoid). Since we're empty nesters we usually let the RCI exchange gods determine where and when we're staying and use the points we own to round out those stays or for a weekend here and there renting any leftover. The other variable is that life can happen. One should at least consider what happens if the family loses one or more incomes or there are other major disasters that happen.

I personally don't own there (BWV333/AKV4*25). I considered it but elected against it in part due to the fact we're currently building a house and the financial constraints involved. Had I bought, it would have been day one for an early Dec fixed week in a 2 BR and I would have rented it on off times that we didn't use it in one way or another reserve first then rent. My personal usage would likely have been to take the points year 1 then try to rebook for the following year with those points then taking points the next year once successful. Basically rolling the fixed week forward saving the extra fixed week points.

Thanks Dean. I think you are another who is helping the less experienced (which compared to you is probably everyone). Very noble, helpful, and appreciated.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

My contract decisions, to date, have not been driven by a resale, investment or exit strategy. I am neither looking to break even nor make a small profit. Rather, I have always viewed my purchase as something I would have throughout my lifetime.

 

[Thisdman]

My contract decisions, to date, have not been driven by a resale, investment or exit strategy. I am neither looking to break even nor make a small profit. Rather, I have always viewed my purchase as something I would have throughout my lifetime.

My decisions where also always based on keeping the contract until expiration even tough my children will be the ones ultimately making that decision. I just wanted an answer to this question. If circumstances change what is my risk? I think it's prudent to at least consider it.

This thread has also confirmed my belief that buying any DVC as an investment is probably a mistake. This isn't one of those things anyone should expect to make money on. We're talking a pure luxury purchase here and I don't know of many of those that actually make us money. One thing I know for sure, 50 years from now the contract will be worth zero.

 

[Andrew015]

This thread has also confirmed my belief that buying any DVC as an investment is probably a mistake. This isn't one of those things anyone should expect to make money on. We're talking a pure luxury purchase here and I don't know of many of those that actually make us money. One thing I know for sure, 50 years from now the contract will be worth zero.

I don’t view my DVC purchase as an investment. Rather, I view it as a cost-avoidance opportunity. I compare my total investment (upfront cost, annual dues, etc.) and compare that to what I would pay OOP. When doing this, it didn’t take long for my resale purchase to essentially “pay itself off”. Sure, I still have recurring (and increasing) annual maintenance fees, but now that my initial investment has essentially “paid for itself”, all of my future trips are essentially at the cost of my maintenance fees, which brings the room cost per night down to peanuts. Once you hit that break-even point, the resale value doesn’t really matter, unless of course you have plans to sell at some point in the future.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

I don’t view my DVC purchase as an investment. Rather, I view it as a cost-avoidance opportunity. I compare my total investment (upfront cost, annual dues, etc.) and compare that to what I would pay OOP. When doing this, it didn’t take long for my resale purchase to essentially “pay itself off”. Sure, I still have recurring (and increasing) annual maintenance fees, but now that my initial investment has essentially “paid for itself”, all of my future trips are essentially at the cost of my maintenance fees, which brings the room cost per night down to peanuts. Once you hit that break-even point, the resale value doesn’t really matter, unless of course you have plans to sell at some point in the future.

This is how DH and I like to look at it..
We have no plans on selling, and since we would go to WDW every other year.. (Alight something every year) ;-)
With or without DVC.. We ran our numbers to see when we would break even.. (Adding in upfront and MF)
We even when one step further comparing deluxe to mod... In case we ever chose to stay at a mod. Instead.

 

[crisi]

I missed this thread (the Dream was wonderful - and then we went to Universal )....

One thing that I may have missed in skimming 233 posts.

Any timeshare is only "worth the money" if you can afford to toss it down the drain immediately.

In 2008 SSR was selling hot and heavy and BCV resales were going for - at the time - a king's ransom. It was a little nuts, and people were using all sorts of wacky math to justify purchases.

Well, we all know what happened - and even the resale price of the coveted BCV came crashing down - heck, you could get deals on GCV during that time. At the same time, some members were heavily leveraged - they owed a lot on their loans. And they were heavily leveraged in other ways as well - mortgages, consumer debt. But they'd managed to convince themselves that paying a premium for BCV points was worth it - with a loan - because that is what they wanted and it would hold its value. If you are heavily leveraged, and then you lose your job, you tend to lose your shirt - your DVC (and all the payments you've already made) and in some cases, homes.

(Remember that loan forgiveness is a taxable event - so if DVC repossesses your contract for non-payment, and forgives the loan, you'll still owe the IRS).

If you have a crystal ball that tells you that your job is secure, your health is secure, the economy isn't going to crash, gas prices aren't going to drive airfare past affordability (assuming you drive) and that WDW will not be the target of a terrorist attack (our BWV relative resale bargain came in the wake of 9/11) - mine's broken.

If you can afford to flush whatever you spent - whether you go a bargain SSR resale or paid to by VGF direct - down the toilet, then DVC makes sense and it makes no difference if you spent more on VGF - even if you never spend a night there - that is about the only equation that matters. Everyone else should be factoring in the risk and gambling only what they can lose. And they should be using worst case assumptions - what if there is another major terrorist attack and I lose my job......What if I buy now and discover next month that my spouse has found his or her soulmate - and it isn't me? (By the way, that happened here a number of years ago - they bought, and within a month, she was back trying to figure out how to sell because of the impending divorce).

(I don't gamble money in the stock market I can't afford to lose either.....granted, it would make me cry to lose it, but we wouldn't go homeless and hungry).

Granted, I'm really financially conservative. Not necessarily cheap, but I tend to weigh risk fairly heavily.

 

[DizBub]

Granted, I'm really financially conservative. Not necessarily cheap, but I tend to weigh risk fairly heavily.

Yes and you are still an owner.

Seriously, your post was a very good one and made much more sense than most of the other ones. To me at least.

 

[Andrew015]

You're kidding with that first paragraph, right? VGF isn't getting more for their accommodations? Really?

Sorry for changing the direction of this thread once again, but I really feel compelled to respond to this post found on page 8, which responds to one of my previous comments made on Friday afternoon. I didn't have access to my computer over the weekend, so again, sorry for the delay.

Ben - In my opinion, no. You are not getting more "accommodations" at VGF than you are at say BLT, at least not nearly enough to justify the 55% premium (average 2014 purchase price for BLT is $97/point per the ROFR thread, as compared to $150/point for VGF). Surely, VGF is more "opulent" in terms of fixtures and finishings. I think it's fair to say that VGF is the most luxurious of all the DVC resorts, but to say that you get more "accommodations" is just plain wrong. By and large, actual resort "accommodations" do not change much from deluxe to deluxe. You pay a slight premium (rack rate) for GF vs CR for those extra few ounces of luxury, but to say that you get better "accommodations" is not true. Looking at a few categories that you touched on in your post, let's compare VGF/GF to BLT/CR:

• Rooms - Quite frankly, there is not much difference in terms of actual accomodations found amongst any of the DVC rooms from resort to resort. Sure, some are slightly larger than others (i.e. OKW), and others have nicer finishings with things like crown molding (VGF), but by and large, the rooms are much the same amongst their respective category (Studio, 1BR, 2BR, etc). As mentioned, VGF takes the cake in terms of luxury finishings, but BLT isn't far behind with things like granite countertops, glass backsplash, mosaic tile shower w/ rainfall style faucets, etc. Quite frankly, I'd gladly give up the crown molding of VGF for the additional full bathroom found in BLT's 1BR. In my mind, having an extra bathroom is an actual, measureable "accommodation", and for me, this gives the nod to BLT (at least for the 1BR's).
• Transportation - This category is pretty much even, as both resorts have monorail, boat and bus options. However, I give the nod to BLT for having additional boat service to WL and FW, which gives quick access to additional restaurants and site seeing opportunities. Also, having the option to walk to MK is a great perk. Nod to BLT.
• Pools - This is subjective, but in my opinion, neither hotel has the best pool options. However, BLT definitely has more of them. BLT has 3 adult pools, 1 kiddie pool, 3 hot tubs, 2 water slides and a splash & play area. VGF only has 2 adult pools, 1 hot tub, 1 water slide and a splash & play area. I like different aspects of each resort's offerings better, but the nod goes to BLT for having more options.
• Restaurants - Sure, VGF wins this category for number of options available. But I do not view this category as a "resort-specific" accommodation, as anyone at BLT can eat at GF, and vice versa. While VGF certainly has the most exclusive restaurant in V&A's, BLT is not far behind with California Grill (typically ranked only second to V&A's on property). As mentioned previously, you are also only a short boat ride away from Artist Point, and a quick monorail ride away from the Poly & GF's restaurant options. Nod to GF, only for having the most options under one roof, but again, I think this is "off topic".
• Spa - Again, not a "resort-specific" accommodation, but both resorts offer spa services. I'm not an expert on this because I never take advantage of these services, but I believe VGF's spa to have more options than BLT's. Slight nod to VGF.
• Lounges - TOTW Lounge is the best lounge on property, hands down. Nod to BLT
• Lobby - Again very subjective, but I think this is a tie. I prefer CR's Grand Canyon Concourse to GF's lobby, but I prefer VGF's lobby to that of BLT's. I think both resorts score very well here. Tie.

To summarize, I do not feel that you get more actual resort accommodations at VGF vs. BLT. Disney has structured its resorts so that a "moderate is a moderate", much like a "monorail deluxe is a monorail deluxe". As previously mentioned, on a cash reservation, you pay a slight premium for VGF over BLT, as you are paying for those extra few ounces of luxury (i.e. robes, the ability to watch TV in your bathroom mirrors, etc.). But to me, those things are not worth the 55% premium to make this my home resort. If VGF was a resort that I "had to stay at", then for me it would be worth the premium for that reason alone - not because I would be getting much more over any other resort. For me, VGF is a resort that I would love to "try", but by no means, do I need to own there, as I see no tangible benefits for the hefty premium paid. Your mileage may vary.

 

[crisi]

Yes and you are still an owner.

Seriously, your post was a very good one and made much more sense than most of the other ones. To me at least.

But we paid in cash when we had a almost paid off mortgage, and a year worth of income in the bank. And we bought BWV resale back in 2002 - after 9/11 - got a decent deal. 150 BWV points - our budget (flush money) was $10k, and we came in under that. (Stock options in the late 1990s )

I wouldn't buy VGF direct - for me the buy in cost is well above what I'd be willing to flush.

 

[crisi]

Interesting post Andrew - I've done the same several times with BWV/BCVs. It is subjective (I think Victoria Falls is the best lounge on property, hands down, but it suits my taste in lounges - I really don't like looking at the rooftops of the MK - no magic there for me - some people see castle, I see the top of the buildings). Maybe BWV has an edge with restaurants and entertainment, but it isn't much of a walk to use the restaurants at the other resort - if you really want Beaches and Cream or to go to ESPN.

Also, as each resort opens, DVC tends to "up" the furnishings a little - a things get dated over time. VGF will look dated in 20 years - like OKW looks now (I had that teal for my first wedding 25 years ago). Taste change, from "clean" solid counter countertops to granite and back (remember cherry cabinets - everyone needed them - well, guess what, to be in you need to paint them white. And stainless steel appliances - dated)

I think SAB is a very cool pool - and I can see why many people think its the "best" - but it wouldn't drive me to stay at BCV - it did once - and my kids wanted to hop back to BWV......

For us, as BWV owners, we get two big benefits to owning there - standard view point structures (I'm financially conservative ) and the walk from Epcot. I'd be happy at other resorts (I'm a VWL fan) and unhappy with some (no desire to stay at SSR ever). I can't imagine spending the number of points for a BLT room or a room at VGF when i have BWV standard available to me (and we often splurge for BW - we have plenty of points for our WDW vacations at a mere 150).

However, if your heart is at VGF, or BLT or SSR or whereever - and you can afford to make a decision without price as a deciding factor - by all means you should buy where your heart is. There is no reason to be disappointed by lack of availability at a resort you love to save money you don't need to save. But your heart needs to be in it - if it isn't, whichever resorts you aren't disappointed by is fine place to own.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I really don't like looking at the rooftops of the MK - no magic there for me - some people see castle, I see the top of the buildings.

I agree, wholeheartedly, and frequently raise this point when discussing the views at BLT. Personally, I just cannot get past the HVAC systems. I do not want to know where they are and, frankly, would like to think that they do not exist.

I would like to think that Adventureland is naturally cooled by tropical breezes and the cold, snowy winds from atop Beast's castle keep Fantasyland comfortable

 

[crisi]

I agree, wholeheartedly, and frequently raise this point when discussing the views at BLT. Personally, I just cannot get past the HVAC systems. I do not want to know where they are and, frankly, would like to think that they do not exist.

I would like to think that Adventureland is naturally cooled by tropical breezes and the cold, snowy winds from atop Beast's castle keep Fantasyland comfortable

I will also say that fireworks are not my thing - we skipped them almost completely on the cruise and they were happening outside our veranda - we would have needed to kept the drapes open (instead, we shut them so they wouldn't bother us). I suspect those enchanted by fireworks find the BLT theme park views and the lounge much more compelling.