VGF makes me sad :(

[disneynutz]

A completely unnecessary recommendation of course.

According to MS there were only 2 of 6 left at the time so we didn't want to take a chance.

Bill

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Then point us to the wording in the POS that would prevent it.

So you're justifying a loophole with semantics?

This is rhetorical debate. I think it's not ok...you're saying it isn't specifically precluded. The lines are there and people can make their own judgments.

I don't think a single DVC buyer in its 25 year history has been told about "walking" during the sales pitch...and if rogue fools do it...it would be in whsiper.

The flexibility and ease...that's the pitch. This defeats that. I think it's spoiled...you can have whatever opinion you wish. Not everybody is built with the same compasses

 

[jmassey1samchi]

So I guess someone looking to purchase a small contract (50 points or so) into places like VGF or BWV, and looking to use those points at certain high demand times of year, might want to reconsider those places as home resorts? As they will be competing with other higher contract owners who have the ability to walk reservations?

 

[Dean]

So you're justifying a loophole with semantics?

This is rhetorical debate. I think it's not ok...you're saying it isn't specifically precluded. The lines are there and people can make their own judgments.

I don't think a single DVC buyer in its 25 year history has been told about "walking" during the sales pitch...and if rogue fools do it...it would be in whsiper.

The flexibility and ease...that's the pitch. This defeats that. I think it's spoiled...you can have whatever opinion you wish. Not everybody is built with the same compasses

No, not at all. See my posts above. IMO there are ways to stop most of this and IMO it should be stopped. What I'm saying is that legally and technically it is allowed. For it to be allowed there has to be wording in the POS that would allow it, there is in the fact that DVCMC has complete control of the reservation system. Thus for it to not be allowed, there would have to be specific wording that prevents it, there isn't to my knowledge. Whether it's a reasonable option or should be stopped is a different matter than the assertion that it's not allowed. It's still far better than day by day. As others will point out, it only affects a small portion anyway and I'd agree. Much can be gotten easily at 11 months out and some is difficult to get no matter what and one would have to wait list.

IMO there are essentially no situations where one can fault an individual for using a timeshare as the system allows. It's not a right or wrong issue but what is allowed. I don't see any way to make it a moral issue, none.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

No, not at all. See my posts above. IMO there are ways to stop most of this and IMO it should be stopped. What I'm saying is that legally and technically it is allowed. For it to be allowed there has to be wording in the POS that would allow it, there is in the fact that DVCMC has complete control of the reservation system. Thus for it to not be allowed, there would have to be specific wording that prevents it, there isn't to my knowledge. Whether it's a reasonable option or should be stopped is a different matter than the assertion that it's not allowed. It's still far better than day by day. As others will point out, it only affects a small portion anyway and I'd agree. Much can be gotten easily at 11 months out and some is difficult to get no matter what and one would have to wait list.

IMO there are essentially no situations where one can fault an individual for using a timeshare as the system allows. It's not a right or wrong issue but what is allowed. I don't see any way to make it a moral issue, none.

I'm not arguing the technical merits of your point.

I'm doing this on the fly and I would wager that if I bothered to search the attic for my contract - if the squirrels haven't eaten it - it would neither prohibit this practice not identify it In anyway to condone it.
That's my "guess"

I bet we're actually agreeing a lot more than it seems by what had been written.

 

[Dean]

I'm not arguing the technical merits of your point.

I'm doing this on the fly and I would wager that if I bothered to search the attic for my contract - if the squirrels haven't eaten it - it would neither prohibit this practice not identify it In anyway to condone it.
That's my "guess"

I bet we're actually agreeing a lot more than it seems by what had been written.

Your guess is wrong on what's allowed, I've read it several times as well as other systems (Marriott, Bluegreen). I would agree that I too would think we would likely agree on many things. But you were arguing the technical merits because you are saying it's not allowed, which is different than you think it shouldn't be allowed. Let me give you some additional info as well. DVC has done this with their lawyers in place. I don't think it was intended that way but they've clearly made no attempt to change it so that becomes the actual rule. My guess is they will someday but we'll see.

Marriott changed their reservation system completely while I've been a member. Their weeks system went from a 12 month reserve system to allowing those that owned and were reserving 2 weeks concurrently or consecutively to do so at 13 months out FROM the first week reserved. And while the presumed intent was to allow those who were trying to stay more than one week at a given resort or in a given area, they have made no distinction so one might reserve a week in Orlando and a week in HI for the same dates to get the advance booking category. We had this same discussion about Marriott and the 13 month window on other boards with similar hand wringing from those who felt it should only be multiple weeks at a given resort but no successful challenges so far to my knowledge. They have also instituted a VIP reservation system in 2010 for their points system and just recently modifying it adding additional levels. Bluegreen is a points system similar to DVC in many ways other than there is no home resort priority. They have instituted a VIP reservation system and modified it a couple of times over the years. As the top VIP tier I can wait list a full 4 months ahead of the 11 month banking window. So while I'm not reserving early, in effect I am and have access earlier than those with lower or no VIP status. Marriott and BG are both FL based timeshare companies as well. So 3 large and major timeshare companies (4 if you want to count Marriott trust as a separate system which it legally is) based in FL have made changes along the same lines at least once each.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What I'm specifically saying...and I have no doubt I probably didn't phrase it correctly...is that i don't think this "concept" is written out or addressed as a policy.

"11 month window...unless you're walking...if you know to...have at it"

You said it yourself: "I don't think it was intended that way, but they've clearly made no attempt to correct it"

Exactly...it's an exploited loophole that I blame Disney for not correcting. That's it.

That doesn't, however, make it a condoned policy. There's a difference - in my view - between "not forbidden" and "condoned".

First I thought we were agreeing...now I think we're not in the same room. This is more "gut feeling" for me...as sometimes they are...than paralegal.

This seems tapped out.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I don't see a full week now. November 30 is available. December 1,2,3,10,12,13 (no 14) for standard. Lake view has December 13 and after, so you could book a full week if arriving December 13 or 14. Nothing before.

Interesting thing I just noticed, Poly has a standard or lake view studio available starting July 5 for the rest of the year.

I booked half of the week that was available, so that we would have a longer lake view stay

 

[Dean]

What I'm specifically saying...and I have no doubt I probably didn't phrase it correctly...is that i don't think this "concept" is written out or addressed as a policy.

"11 month window...unless you're walking...if you know to...have at it"

You said it yourself: "I don't think it was intended that way, but they've clearly made no attempt to correct it"

Exactly...it's an exploited loophole that I blame Disney for not correcting. That's it.

That doesn't, however, make it a condoned policy. There's a difference - in my view - between "not forbidden" and "condoned".

First I thought we were agreeing...now I think we're not in the same room. This is more "gut feeling" for me...as sometimes they are...than paralegal.

This seems tapped out.

IMO it doesn't matter if it was intended or not, one can call it a loophole if they want it really is of no consequence either way. It's allowed and has been for some time now and it's therefore condoned by DVCMC. I thought they'ed change it fairly quickly once it got going and was obvious this was what was going on but not only have they not done so, they are the one suggesting it. If you feel it shouldn't be allowed, that's different and I agree but because I feel every change should be a cancelation and rebooking, that it POTENTIALLY robs from those booking exactly 11 months out (that someone else gets it is not the same IMO), and it increases costs for MS. I'm not as concerned with tying up rooms one doesn't intend to own but I'm not a big fan of that either when it's intentional. I am OK with booking for options such as booking a 1 BR and 2 BR or different times to see which they want later and I realize that it's splitting hairs to a degree. We do agree that DVCMC is responsible and that it should be changed. I think our differences here are that I am certain it's allowed under the legalities and rules as they currently stand (they can be changed for most things anyway) and that as long as this is the way DVC is interpreting the rules, I'm OK with any member who feels they need to use it. I'm just not going to be sympathetic if/when they change it in a way that prevents this which will almost certainly be each change is a cancelation and rebooking AND that one can't rebook immediately (several ways to do this). I think it's unlikely they'll add fees for cancelations or changes.

 

[NSKnight]

We waitlisted the VGF at our 7 month window, for 5 nights in a standard studio, and it came in within 2 months.. hope it works out for you!

 

[DenLo]

I just checked with my DH, wdrl, who keeps track of the sales statistics at DVC resorts. And here are the answers to some of the questions above.

Only 4% total points at VGF are in fixed week deeds spread over 47 weeks of the year. About half of the Guaranteed Week contracts at VGF are in the last six weeks of the year.

For the first 2 weeks in December - 36 Guaranteed week contracts were sold out of the maximum of 94 guarantee weeks which were available to be sold. That’s only 38% of what DVD could have sold on guaranteed weeks in early December.

IMHO the Guaranteed Week purchases do impact availability at VGF in early December, but only for a small number of rooms. The real impact is that a large number of VGF owners all want to stay at VGF in early December. And since DVD sold enough points for all those members to stay at VGF year round that means way too many people are vying for the same few rooms on the same dates.

All VGF owners had the chance to buy a Guaranteed week but very few chose that option. I would never had thought it would be necessary at the 11 month mark. But then none of us realized the overwhelming popularity of VGF either.

 

[Rigby]

Is it ever necessary to walk a 1 bedroom VGF reservation? Will be booking in May for April 2017. Thanks!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I just checked with my DH, wdrl, who keeps track of the sales statistics at DVC resorts. And here are the answers to some of the questions above.



IMHO the Guaranteed Week purchases do impact availability at VGF in early December, but only for a small number of rooms. The real impact is that a large number of VGF owners all want to stay at VGF in early December. And since DVD sold enough points for all those members to stay at VGF year round that means way too many people are vying for the same few rooms on the same dates.

All VGF owners had the chance to buy a Guaranteed week but very few chose that option. I would never had thought it would be necessary at the 11 month mark. But then none of us realized the overwhelming popularity of VGF either.

How many of those possible guaranteed weeks sold were studios? It sounds like the numbers were for all possible accommodations or am I misunderstanding?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

My opinion is that views are the ultimate red herring at wdw...from both sides of the desk

Which is why I really hope there are NO view categories at VWL once all the construction is done.

 

[Dean]

Which is why I really hope there are NO view categories at VWL once all the construction is done.

From an ownership standpoint it might be better if there are. It likely would mean less total points and if there were a fixed week option, a way to lock in the cost of future reallocations.

 

[dd08]

Is it ever necessary to walk a 1 bedroom VGF reservation? Will be booking in May for April 2017. Thanks!

I don't want to mislead you as things could change, but.....

1BR seem to be comparatively "easy" to get at VGF (outside December and F&W/Halloween party weekends so far). When the 7month window came up, we were considering using our AKV points to supplement our VGF points to switch from a studio to a 1BR for this July. (we decided to try Poly instead since it was available and may or may not be so easy to get into at 7months once it's sold out)

Also, we got a 1BR at VGF at about the 10 month mark for a F&W/Halloween party 4 day weekend in Oct.

So again, don't want to mislead you, but I think your chances will be pretty good.

 

[gagirldawg95]

We are new VGF owners, and I was a little apprehensive about getting the 1bd standard room at VGF we wanted for the weekend of Columbus Day for 2016. I booked right at 11 mos without a problem. Fast forward, and I just learned (on Friday- less than 9 mos from arrival) that the kids' school schedule has a break the weekend before (to coincide with Rosh Hashana), and not over Columbus Day. So I was worried that F&W might cause an issue with rebooking. Luckily for me, I was able to cancel and rebook with no issue -and both standard and lake view 1bd were available (I didn't check our studio availability). And the bonus for us is that crowds should be better than what we normally see at Columbus Day!

For our upcoming Presidents' Day trip, we were pretty successful in booking a 1bd VGF standard. Because I didn't receive a member number until 6 mos out, I was really concerned there would be no availability. My wait list for Valentine's Day never came through, but that means we will experience VWL (construction and all) for 2 nights before moving to VGF for 4 nights.

Based on just these 2 anecdotal experiences, I'm optimistic walking isn't currently necessary for 1bd VGF. (Now, first 2 weeks in December is likely an entirely different story!)

 

[SarahInMN]

We bought enough points at VGF to do 8-9 nights in a 1 BR every other year (we own a similar amount of BCV points and alternate year to year). We are going 10/2016 and wanted to stay at VGF. I had heard all the difficulties in ressies, etc so I started stalking the availability tool a month in advance.

My anecdotal evidence showed that entire weeks in 1 BR (either view) were fairly widely available until the 4 month mark, suggesting to me that even non-owners would not have an issue with 1 BR bookings until about 4 months before their trip. When I went online to book at 11 months for our 1 BR, 9 day stay: dedicated 2 BRs and all 1 BRs had wide open availability but the studios even at 11 months had spotty nights with no availability.

I am not worried about 1 BR availability unless their is a MAJOR point reallocation making studio/1 BR about the same point cost.

In terms of overall VGF and BCV availability, I have never walked a reservation at either of our home resorts: it's too much work and availability has not been an issue as we generally book 10-11 months out. We are currently at Saratoga and are here because we decided in August to make a quick January trip: Ie it was our own d*mn fault for deciding past 7 months to make a WDW trip and couldn't get the whole trip at any of the EPCOT or monorail DVCs.

 

[Sandisw]

Keep trying...the results may surprise you. I was just able to book December 11th to the December 16th in a standard view studio at VGF. Things are changing all the time! I think you just have to try daily! Good luck!

 

[dismedvc]

I just checked with my DH, wdrl, who keeps track of the sales statistics at DVC resorts. And here are the answers to some of the questions above.
Only 4% total points at VGF are in fixed week deeds spread over 47 weeks of the year. About half of the Guaranteed Week contracts at VGF are in the last six weeks of the year.

For the first 2 weeks in December - 36 Guaranteed week contracts were sold out of the maximum of 94 guarantee weeks which were available to be sold. That’s only 38% of what DVD could have sold on guaranteed weeks in early December.

How many of those possible guaranteed weeks sold were studios? It sounds like the numbers were for all possible accommodations or am I misunderstanding?

Specifically as it relates to studios, which was what made the OP "sad" when they could not book a VGF studio at the 11 month mark, and what KAT asked, I found this information on another thread.

Here is a breakout of the number of Guaranteed Week deeds sold for studios at the Villas at Grand Floridian:
Week #49 (12/04/2016) = 4 Standard View; 4 Lake View
Week #50 (12/11/2016) = 4 Standard View; 4 Lake View
Week #51 (12/18/2016) = 4 Standard View; 4 Lake View
Week #52 (12/25/2016) = 3 Standard View; 4 Lake View
There are 30 Standard View Studios and 17 Lake View Studios at VGF. The master declaration at VGF permits DVD to sell as much as 35% of each accommodation type as Guaranteed Week deeds. Thus, DVD could have sold as many as 10 Standard View Studio Guaranteed Week deeds and 5 Lake View Studio Guaranteed Week deeds for each week.

Using these numbers, it appears that for Studios DVD actually sold 16 guaranteed Studio weeks out of 94 total Studio weeks available for the first 2 weeks of December. That is about 17%.

If DVC sold an additional 20 guaranteed week contracts for 1BR's or 2BR's for the first 2 weeks of December, that would add up to the 36 total contracts DenLo mentioned for the first 2 weeks of December. However, if some of those additional 20 were for 2BR lock-offs that would be even more studios "sucked up" by the guaranteed weeks.

I can not believe the effort wdrl must put in to gather this type of data, but I enjoy trying to analyze it when he posts it.
DenLo: does wdrl also have a breakdown of how many 1BR and 2BR guaranteed weeks were sold for this time period?
If so could you ask him if he could post it, including detail on whether any of the 2BR guaranteed weeks sold were for lock offs?