VGF cheaper than RIV Direct

[Sandisw]

How well Poly sells will depend largely on unknowns: The quality of the new tower itself, pricing.

A possible problem for GFV is the lack of any "new" feeling. It's a conversion of an older building within an older resort.

If the Poly tower is gorgeous and people love it, it could potentially really help its sales. One can imagine it being sleek, modern, with a beautiful infinity pool, great dining and lounge options... and a selling point of being the best of the new with the best of traditional Disney (still sharing property with traditional Poly).
On the other hand, if buyers hate the tower.....

It may easily be a similar situation as Riviera -- Where there is internet/Disney-fan hate -- "It looks like a Marriott, it doesn't feel very Disney..." But actual new buyers mostly love it.

I was simply referring to restrictions aspect and that since it does t appear they have impacted RIV in any meaningful way..if it all..it will be even less of a factor in selling Poly tower.

Of course, we still don’t know. Hopefully we are down to a year or so from that decision!!

 

[awestbrook23]

I think something that many people are overlooking with regard to slow VGF sales is that DVC decided to announce the Poly tower right around the same time VGF went on sale, which probably stifled the initial surge in demand. I know many people - including myself - who wanted more direct points without restrictions, put a halt on their VGF purchase plans when that happened. I personally toured the studios and was preparing to purchase back in March, but finding out about the Poly tower changed everything. Now, I'm trying to decide if VGF will sell out before we know if Poly2 is the same association (no restrictions) or a new one (with restrictions). I'll always go with the option without restrictions - not because of resale value - but because 20 years down the road when multiple contracts have been resold, the competition to get into your own resort will be tremendously hard since all those resale owners cannot stay anywhere else/move at 7 months, but all other direct owners can come in and stay there at 7 months. It creates disproportionate demand down the road.

 

[havoc315]

I think something that many people are overlooking with regard to slow VGF sales is that DVC decided to announce the Poly tower right around the same time VGF went on sale, which probably stifled the initial surge in demand. I know many people - including myself - who wanted more direct points without restrictions, put a halt on their VGF purchase plans when that happened. I personally toured the studios and was preparing to purchase back in March, but finding out about the Poly tower changed everything. Now, I'm trying to decide if VGF will sell out before we know if Poly2 is the same association (no restrictions) or a new one (with restrictions). I'll always go with the option without restrictions - not because of resale value - but because 20 years down the road when multiple contracts have been resold, the competition to get into your own resort will be tremendously hard since all those resale owners cannot stay anywhere else/move at 7 months, but all other direct owners can come in and stay there at 7 months. It creates disproportionate demand down the road.

Nope ---- All those re-sale owners at the other resorts can't come into the new Poly tower. (if it's a new association). This would more than balance-out all the owners that can't leave at 7 months. If anything, it should make it easier to still have rooms at 7 months than the legacy resorts.

20 years down the road -- You'll have legacy re-sale owners that can ONLY stay at about 6-7 resorts.
Meanwhile, the "restricted" resorts will only get demand from direct owners and re-sale owners at that resort, and very very grandfathered resale buyers (people who bought their resale more than 25 years earlier).

It's the legacy resorts that will be swamped with demand at 7 months. As those 6-7 resorts will be the only ones open to direct buyers and to lots of resale buyers.

 

[tjkraz]

I think something that many people are overlooking with regard to slow VGF sales is that DVC decided to announce the Poly tower right around the same time VGF went on sale, which probably stifled the initial surge in demand.

Riviera's appeal would be similarly impacted by the existence of VGF and Aulani, and the looming availability of VDH and Poly.

Are there people who specifically said "hey I really want a monorail resort and planned to buy VGF, but I'll wait on Poly and buy Riviera today instead"? Probably.

Is it a statistically significant population?

Aspects like price and contract duration are meaningful differences between the resorts. Those are valid points for discussion. It gets a little stickier when we layer our personal biases and assume that a large number of others would feel exactly the same way.

I'll always go with the option without restrictions - not because of resale value - but because 20 years down the road when multiple contracts have been resold, the competition to get into your own resort will be tremendously hard since all those resale owners cannot stay anywhere else/move at 7 months, but all other direct owners can come in and stay there at 7 months. It creates disproportionate demand down the road.

That's only one side of the equation. You're forgetting the other side: resale buyers at *every other resort* are blocked from coming into the restricted location.

Yes there are currently some Riviera resale owners who can only use their points at Riviera. However every resale contract which changed hands over the last three years at every other DVC location is unable to book at Riviera.

EDIT: To add some numbers to this, over the past 22 months, 21,700 riviera points have changed hands via resale. About 1000 per month. If it continues at that pace, in 20 years there will be about 240,000 points in the hands of restricted resale owners. That's 3.5% of the 6.7 million points. If that resale pace doubles (to a rate comparable to BLT), that's still only 7% of points in 20 years.

Meanwhile, over those same 22 months, all other resorts totaled 587,000 in resale transfers. That's more than a half million points which cannot be used to book riviera. In 20 years, the number rises to 6.4 million points blocked from RVA reservations vs the 240-480k estimate which can only book Riviera.

Only a fraction of those 6.4 million would even attempt to book riviera so it's certainly not an apples-to-apples trade off. DVC will continue to sell "new" points which can book all locations. 20 years ago, there were only about 22 million points which had the ability to book BCV and BWV. Today that number is over 80 million. (Along with a slew of other appealing resorts to spread the demand.) Resort competition is constantly evolving.

Still I hope that illustrates how Riviera will be affected both negatively and positively by the resale restrictions.

 

[hglenn]

I think there could also be something said about the resale buying for VGF and RIV. IMO, if I'm going to buy at VGF, I'm buying resale. The price point is so much better and there are a decent amount of contracts on the market. I'm only locked out of one resort (one resort today and probably only 3 for the next 5-10 years) and if I'm favoring VGF over RIV anyway, then resale would be a better choice for me. If I want RIV, I'm buying direct. I want more flexibility in my points so I'm not going to buy resale here as I don't want to be locked into one resort. So my theory is that perhaps a lot of people do actually prefer VGF over RIV, however, rather than buying direct they end up buying resale. Just another consideration...? I love all of the dialogue on the theories of consumer buying and corporate strategy.

 

[TinkB278]

I wanted to add on some direct points this fall for an upcoming trip (actually would’ve loved AKV resale but think the price is too high currently to justify the points being restricted). I was torn between adding on more at riv or diversifying and getting unrestricted points at VGF. I went with riv to get the double points, I was also afraid of the noise issues at bpk. I only bought 50 points so the cost was equal between the two. The announcement of the poly tower also pushed me away from VGF. I’m hoping to buy at poly when it comes available.

 

[bunzy]

My family is one of many but we just purchased (Nov 11) our first ever contract at the Riviera mainly because of location.
Our boys are now older and find we spend more time in Epcot instead MK.
I am sure in the future when our family grows we will go full circle back to more visits to MK and we will buy more points at an MK resort.

Incase anyone wonders, We did buy direct to have access to all resorts and my wife's FOMO
Also the resale restrictions were not a factor, we are in for the long haul.

Thank you everyone for the hours and hours of reading to help us make an educated decision on our purchase.

Can't wait for our first visit as DVC members.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

Honestly, the numbers are a b it shocking, explaining the incentive change. 86,000 vs 47,000 -- VFG sales 45% lower than RIV.

I wonder how much of a factor it is that you can get "double" points with RIV and not VGF... and that will soon change.
I can't imagine the current price difference alone is enough to make RIV nearly twice as popular as VGF...
Now, price aside, I prefer RIV over VGF. And I'm sure I'm not alone.... and maybe a majority of buyers actually do like RIV more than VGF... but again, I can't imagine that RIV would be nearly twice as popular as VGF...

So it's probably a lot of factors at play. I do wonder how many people were persuaded by double points at RIV, an advantage that dries up soon.

Also, we just went through this mental process, and putting in our trip dates onto point calculator and seeing how much more expensive VGF is in points, it would require many more points to do our NYE week or Easter trips, or even summer trips staying at VGF. Therefore, I'd have to buy more points to guarantee my trips would have enough points. This was the biggest factor for us.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Big change in tack from DVC, now trying to push VGF as sales have slacked last few months.
These offers are until 18th Jan 2023 but they could go up by $10pp on 1st Dec if that rumour is true. Edit: confirmed $10 increase on 4th Dec

Add on prices below

100-124 RIV $204, VGF $201
125-149 RIV $202, VGF $200
150-174 RIV $200, VGF $198
175-199 RIV $198, VGF $195
200-249 RIV $191, VGF $188
250-299 RIV $190, VGF $186
300-499 RIV $184, VGF $181

New member
150-174 RIV $205, VGF $203
175-199 RIV $203, VGF $201
200-249 RIV $199, VGF $196
250-299 RIV $197, VGF $193
300-499 RIV $192, VGF $188

Am I missing something or is the minimum add on 100 pts.?

 

[CarolMN]

Am I missing something or is the minimum add on 100 pts.?

No, 100 points is the minimum purchase to to get an incentive price.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I think the reason Riviera outsold VGF last month is because the VGF incentives weren’t as good, and there’s a lot of overthinking it happening here.

 

[Sandisw]

I think the reason Riviera outsold VGF last month is because the VGF incentives weren’t as good, and there’s a lot of overthinking it happening here.

Price was certainly a factor but the difference in sales numbers is quite big and has been for three months now so it has to be more than just the price difference, especially since dues at. VGF are less.

In 5 to 6 years, that savings would wipe out quite a bit of any additional spent now.

Obviously, now that things are reversed we shall see if VGF can compete with RIV.

The incentives are almost as good as the initial ones offered to owners back in March. I paid $179/pt for 300 points and it’s now down to $181…

Maybe the biggest takeaway is that even VGF can’t sell well unless priced low enough in relation to other resorts being offered.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

Price was certainly a factor but the difference in sales numbers is quite big and has been for three months now so it has to be more than just the price difference, especially since dues at. VGF are less.

In 5 to 6 years, that savings would wipe out quite a bit of any additional spent now.

Obviously, now that things are reversed we shall see if VGF can compete with RIV.

The incentives are almost as good as the initial ones offered to owners back in March. I paid $179/pt for 300 points and it’s now down to $181…

Maybe the biggest takeaway is that even VGF can’t sell well unless priced low enough in relation to other resorts being offered.

And in addition to what you stated buyers at RIV could receive 2021 UY points depending when they bought whereas at VGF they only get 2022. Depending how one looks at it, that is an extra year’s vacation or $16-20 pp less (if you value the points similar to what they are worth on the rental market).

 

[NVDISFamily]

And in addition to what you stated buyers at RIV could receive 2021 UY points depending when they bought whereas at VGF they only get 2022. Depending how one looks at it, that is an extra year’s vacation or $16-20 pp less (if you value the points similar to what they are worth on the rental market).

This wasn't the main reason we went with Riviera over VGF but it was a nice perk. Having those extra points are allowing us to do an awesome family reunion for our welcome home stay in June. Very glad I was able to buy in at 164 a point.

I'm a but surprised to see VGF discounted lower than Riviera but I hope it helps the sales at VGF. VGF is a lovely resort and we hope to stay there some day.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I think we just cant forget that VGF is selling points for mostly resort studio stays. RIV has the traditional DVC room models. Maybe people are choosing RIV for this reason, since price doesn’t appear to be a factor.

 

[Sandisw]

And in addition to what you stated buyers at RIV could receive 2021 UY points depending when they bought whereas at VGF they only get 2022. Depending how one looks at it, that is an extra year’s vacation or $16-20 pp less (if you value the points similar to what they are worth on the rental market).

Definitely could have play some role…absolutely….it would be cool if we had that data…

October sales would only include people who chose the Dec UY to get it but still it would be interesting to see if the UY did play a role in the monthly statistics to gain those 2021 points.

 

[DVCsloth]

I think we just cant forget that VGF is selling points for mostly resort studio stays. RIV has the traditional DVC room models. Maybe people are choosing RIV for this reason, since price doesn’t appear to be a factor.

VGF was our first DVC in 2014, really love the resort. We were not thrilled with the BPK addition even though it looks like they did a beautiful job. We added on at Riviera during the previous incentives. I was actually considering selling our VGF except it's still my wife's favorite resort. The original Villa's building at VGF is just about as perfect of a DVC resort "IMO" as it gets. Very happy with Riviera, stayed there a few times at 7 months, but wanted the 11-month window so we pulled the trigger there as well.

 

[Nursemanit]

I think we just cant forget that VGF is selling points for mostly resort studio stays. RIV has the traditional DVC room models. Maybe people are choosing RIV for this reason, since price doesn’t appear to be a factor.

VGF has 1, 2, and 3 bedrooms - since it is the same association, they are not selling resort studios they are selling points.

 

[Pens Fan]

I think we just cant forget that VGF is selling points for mostly resort studio stays. RIV has the traditional DVC room models. Maybe people are choosing RIV for this reason, since price doesn’t appear to be a factor.

We were in the process of buying more CCV points on the resale market when VGF2 went on sale. I was very surprised at the low initial price and we were very tempted to buy some. The reason we passed was the lack of larger villas in the new building. Yes, you can use your points in the old building for the 1,2, and 3 BR's but a resort so largely skewed to studios didn't interest us at all as we always book the larger rooms and were worried about competition for those units.

In the end, the nice price for unrestricted points was tempting but it didn't out sway our concerns about the make up of room types at that resort. So for us, anyway, the deciding factor was the make up of rooms - not restrictions, dues or price. Buy where you want to stay!

 

[DVCsloth]

I think GF is such prime real estate that Disney should have considered new buildings for DVC Villas and the hotel side. I think they were trying to have a revenue stream and have DVC members help fill the hotel and cover maintenance costs. They could have started with a new DVC building then added new buildings to the hotel one at a time. This, IMO would have added some excitement. They could have made it a separate association with a balanced room selection, and it would no doubt be the WDW flagship.