VGF cheaper than RIV Direct

[DVCsloth]

Luckily, we are able to book at 11 when we stay at VGF. Maybe we can call it "Balanced unless you want a SV Deluxe studio" or SV 1BR during December resort".

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Unless my math is WAY off, before adding BPK there were a total of 6 grand villas, 47 dedicated 2BR's, and 47 each of 1BR and studios, all of which were in lock-off configuration, for a total of 147 potentially available rooms (assuming zero lock-offs).

Adding 200 "resort studios" changes those numbers to 6 GV, 47 ded. 2BR's, 200 dedicated studios, 47 lock-off studios, and 47 1BR's. Out of potentially 347 units in non lock-off configuration, 247 are studios, 47 are 2BR and 47 are 1BR (with 6 GV).

I'm gonna say that sounds pretty studio-heavy.

Thanks for doing the math!!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Luckily, we are able to book at 11 when we stay at VGF. Maybe we can call it "Balanced unless you want a SV Deluxe studio" or SV 1BR during December resort".

Well I know people have been walking VGF1 rooms for sometime. Once BPK is sold out, I am not convinced 11 month booking is a given.

 

[DVCsloth]

Well I know people have been walking VGF1 rooms for sometime. Once BPK is sold out, I am not convinced 11 month booking is a given.

I think the 1BR's will be ok, but the Deluxe Studio's during the first couple weeks of December have always been difficult to book. Hopefully the Resort studios will be available to people who want to book there during that time. It is a nice time to be there. We gave up on it during that time because of the walking and now go in September after Labor Day.

 

[The Jackal]

I think GF is such prime real estate that Disney should have considered new buildings for DVC Villas and the hotel side. I think they were trying to have a revenue stream and have DVC members help fill the hotel and cover maintenance costs. They could have started with a new DVC building then added new buildings to the hotel one at a time. This, IMO would have added some excitement. They could have made it a separate association with a balanced room selection, and it would no doubt be the WDW flagship.

I think that Disney is having problems filling the cash rooms at The Grand Floridian. There was no need or even a rumor of VGF2 happening till DVC announced it. RIV sales had picked back up from the pandemic. There are reasons why now there are DVC rooms in the former cash rooms at The Grand Floridian, The Polynesian Resort and The Wilderness Lodge. Disney makes a quick profit with those rooms sold as DVC, but they make way more money renting on cash. For instance 200 studios at BPK at $800 a night for a year is over $54,000,000. If they sold 2,000,000 points at $200 per point that is $400,000,000. Less than 4 years of cash reservations. DVC also has a big overhead of all the CM’s and the preview buildings.

 

[tjkraz]

While most of what's been said about the number of VGF studios vs 1B, 2B, etc is true, I think it's a pretty big leap to assume that new buyers are giving ANY amount of consideration to those numbers. If anything, the Resort Studios boost the appeal of VGF because they offer a new type of accommodation that you can't get elsewhere. Passing judgement on future availability based upon the mix of room types is a very advanced topic, one that most veteran posters here can only speculate upon.

I'll say this much: If you want a Deluxe Studio, 1B, 2B or 3B at VGF, it's much easier to book at 11 months as an owner than 7 months as a non owner. And I suspect all of those room types are available to book at 11 months most of the year.

 

[tjkraz]

I think that Disney is having problems filling the cash rooms at The Grand Floridian.

For years DVC sales (and rentals) have been eating into Deluxe business. Still, it's something of a problem of Disney's own creation. If they need to fill rooms, all they have to do is reduce prices or discount.

Smaller inventory of Deluxe rooms allows Disney to maintain higher average pricing due to scarcity. Look at resorts like Wilderness and Poly who gave literally hundreds of rooms to DVC. There's a tendency to view it as a failure on Disney's part for not being able to sell those rooms to cash guests. The other way to look at it is smaller inventory means higher prices on the remaining rooms plus a cheaper DVC destination compared to building new.

There was no need or even a rumor of VGF2 happening till DVC announced it.

Maybe not, but people knew about it. It just managed to stay quiet. Same was true of the Poly tower, a decision which was made months before it was announced.

Timing on VGF2 basically came down to the planned resort-wide refurbishment. No DVC didn't need more inventory right away. But it didn't make sense to refurbish BPK as hotel rooms now (funded by parks & resorts) and then flip them to DVC in a few years.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't view the conversion of cash inventory to DVC as a failure. I view it as a way to transfer risk of drops in travel demand from the company to customers. The fact that it accelerates ROI is a nice bonus.

 

[DVCsloth]

I don't view the conversion of cash inventory to DVC as a failure. I view it as a way to transfer risk of drops in travel demand from the company to customers. The fact that it accelerates ROI is a nice bonus.

Not sure if it will increase ROI with VGF for a while. I think a lot of people are holding back on luxury purchases right now.

 

[RoseGold]

Maybe not, but people knew about it. It just managed to stay quiet. Same was true of the Poly tower, a decision which was made months before it was announced.

Poly2 kept the secret as long as they could. They had to announce when they did because they were pulling massive permits.

 

[tjkraz]

Poly2 kept the secret as long as they could. They had to announce when they did because they were pulling massive permits.

They didn't HAVE to formally announce Poly but yes, plans would have become known within Disney fan circles rather quickly. (Disney previously spent 2 years refusing to even acknowledge Bay Lake Tower's existence before confirming it was a DVC resort.)

Still my point was that lack of rumors / buzz doesn't mean that recent projects came together abruptly. Especially in the case of Poly, pieces had fallen into place about a year before it became public knowledge.

 

[SL6827]

I think that Disney is having problems filling the cash rooms at The Grand Floridian. There was no need or even a rumor of VGF2 happening till DVC announced it. RIV sales had picked back up from the pandemic. There are reasons why now there are DVC rooms in the former cash rooms at The Grand Floridian, The Polynesian Resort and The Wilderness Lodge. Disney makes a quick profit with those rooms sold as DVC, but they make way more money renting on cash. For instance 200 studios at BPK at $800 a night for a year is over $54,000,000. If they sold 2,000,000 points at $200 per point that is $400,000,000. Less than 4 years of cash reservations. DVC also has a big overhead of all the CM’s and the preview buildings.

Bingo!

 

[pkrieger2287]

What indicators?

Grand Floridian sales push coupled with lack of Poly ROFR activity, primarily.

 

[Sandisw]

Grand Floridian sales push coupled with lack of Poly ROFR activity, primarily.

But I’m still not sure how that supports the association decision…regardless of which it is, won’t they want VGF closer to sold out when Poly tower sales start?

 

[tom1944]

Is the access to Epcot significantly different between these 2 resorts?

I know Riviera is considered an Epcot resort and Grand Floridian a Magic Kingdom resort.

 

[CarolynFH]

Is the access to Epcot significantly different between these 2 resorts?

I know Riviera is considered an Epcot resort and Grand Floridian a Magic Kingdom resort.

Interesting question, first time I've seen it in the Purchasing forum.

At Riviera you can board the Skyliner and be at the IG of Epcot in roughly 10 minutes, depending on how long the line is to board.

At GF, you need to board the monorail and travel to the TTC, stopping at MK and CR first, then transfer to the Epcot monorail. I'm not sure how long it would take, but I suspect about an hour under the best of circumstances. The alternative is to walk from GF past Poly to the TTC and catch the Epcot monorail there.

 

[DVCsloth]

But I’m still not sure how that supports the association decision…regardless of which it is, won’t they want VGF closer to sold out when Poly tower sales start?

I still don't see any reason that Disney would want to have this in the same association. Not sure why you would buy direct when it goes on sale if you can use resale

Interesting question, first time I've seen it in the Purchasing forum.

At Riviera you can board the Skyliner and be at the IG of Epcot in roughly 10 minutes, depending on how long the line is to board.

At GF, you need to board the monorail and travel to the TTC, stopping at MK and CR first, then transfer to the Epcot monorail. I'm not sure how long it would take, but I suspect about an hour under the best of circumstances. The alternative is to walk from GF past Poly to the TTC and catch the Epcot monorail there.

We usually walk to Polynesian and stop at Capt. Cooks for a bite and then walk to the TTC and catch the monorail to Epcot. I think they run a bus to Epcot from GF as well. Sometimes we ride the monorail all the way to TTC and change there, I think it is pretty comparable timewise with less walking if you take the monorail all the way.

 

[tom1944]

Interesting question, first time I've seen it in the Purchasing forum.

At Riviera you can board the Skyliner and be at the IG of Epcot in roughly 10 minutes, depending on how long the line is to board.

At GF, you need to board the monorail and travel to the TTC, stopping at MK and CR first, then transfer to the Epcot monorail. I'm not sure how long it would take, but I suspect about an hour under the best of circumstances. The alternative is to walk from GF past Poly to the TTC and catch the Epcot monorail there.

That is significant

Thank you

Planning a DVC purchase sure is difficult for people like me who run every possible scenario through my brain.

So many great options with pro and con issues

 

[CarolynFH]

That is significant

Thank you

Planning a DVC purchase sure is difficult for people like me who run every possible scenario through my brain.

So many great options with pro and con issues

Yeah, we were lucky - our choices at WDW were OKW or BWV. We had stayed at BWV and loved it, and we've spent 25 years enjoying it!

Good luck in making your decision - sometimes you just have to go with your gut....

 

[tom1944]

Yeah, we were lucky - our choices at WDW were OKW or BWV. We had stayed at BWV and loved it, and we've spent 25 years enjoying it!

Good luck in making your decision - sometimes you just have to go with your gut....

I actually looked at BWV when it was initially for sale but the financial situation at the time made that impractical.

Now because of sacrifices we made these past 25+ years the finances are the least of our issues