VGC Renovation Timeline

[Rex1993]

Anyone have any information on the VGC renovation? During our stay in April I talked with one of the general managers at the hotel and he said that a "hard goods renovation" was happening sometime in the next two years but couldn't give more details. If there's something in the works, where do I find that information?

 

[varyth]

I don't think we've heard about a definitive schedule yet. There's some speculation for next year after VDH construction wraps up? Also eagerly awaiting any news, since we have quite a few VGC stays booked into 2024.

 

[NVDISFamily]

Recommend you check out this tread - https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-refurbishment-tracker.3922158/

@ehh and I were discussing this very topic there

TLDR - I think they will delay until late 2024 or early 2025 due to Pixar Place and VDH...

 

[Rex1993]

Recommend you check out this tread - https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-refurbishment-tracker.3922158/

@ehh and I were discussing this very topic there

TLDR - I think they will delay until late 2024 or early 2025 due to Pixar Place and VDH...

Just took a look at the thread and it’s very interesting. While my thread may seem duplicative I’d rather keep it separate because VGC is unique in that it is the only CA property where we’re waiting on a refurb. I’m relatively new to all this but I don’t understand how there is no information conveyed to owners from the association.

 

[crvetter]

Just took a look at the thread and it’s very interesting. While my thread may seem duplicative I’d rather keep it separate because VGC is unique in that it is the only CA property where we’re waiting on a refurb. I’m relatively new to all this but I don’t understand how there is no information conveyed to owners from the association.

The advantage of that thread is the OP of the thread is actually looking at the room counts available daily at some resorts (VGC is one of them) so they will have/post it when they see room disruptions.

So that thread is based on facts in the booking system.

 

[Rex1993]

The advantage of that thread is the OP of the thread is actually looking at the room counts available daily at some resorts (VGC is one of them) so they will have/post it when they see room disruptions.

So that thread is based on facts in the booking system.

Got it. I guess where I’m getting confused is that I don’t see how room disruptions can be the first indication of a pending refurb. Doesn’t the condo association need to do all sorts of planning prior to that point and that information available to owners?

 

[crvetter]

Got it. I guess where I’m getting confused is that I don’t see how room disruptions can be the first indication of a pending refurb. Doesn’t the condo association need to do all sorts of planning prior to that point and that information available to owners?

They often need to take rooms offline to schedule a possible refurbishment. Then once everything is shored up with the scheduling they release the unneeded rooms back into inventory and convey the message to the owners. It is pretty standard and how it works pretty much with every refurb. The issue is you need to take out of inventory at 11 months in advance but also schedule contractors that might not know that far in advance.

It is likely we will hear something by the end of the year.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

and that information available to owners

You must be new to DVC

Disney doesn’t communicate well, to say the least

 

[Rex1993]

You must be new to DVC

Disney doesn’t communicate well, to say the least

Yes, new to DVC. We love Disney and love DVC but I'm just mystified and frustrated about the black box nature of this. Maybe I'm totally missing something but as I read it, California law requires open meetings of the condo association and doesn't allow for secrecy in these matters.

 

[ehh]

I wouldn't characterize it as secrecy, there is both vague longterm notice and, eventually, more specific short term notice. But notice of specific dates is rarely provided before 11m bookings are impacted.

For example, during the 2022 condo association meeting (in Dec 2022) they did announce that BWV would get a hard goods refurb in 2023, but no specific dates. By then they had already very visibly removed inventory from Sept/Oct 2023 (entire categories went to 0 available for months at a time) and a refurb was already suspected by the community. It wasn't until the recent Disney Files mailing that DVC confirmed the "Fall 2023" start date.

VGC's 2024 refurb has not been formally announced in a condo association meeting, but it was mentioned in 2021's Q&A session as a justification for increasing dues. I suspect we'll get a vague update in this year's condo association meeting, but by then we might already have an indication due to inventory disruptions.

So I started watching for those inventory disruptions, especially less obvious disruptions, to try to better anticipate and document refurbs. I actually started monitoring VGC before anything else because I'm eagerly looking forward to it

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Yes, new to DVC. We love Disney and love DVC but I'm just mystified and frustrated about the black box nature of this. Maybe I'm totally missing something but as I read it, California law requires open meetings of the condo association and doesn't allow for secrecy in these matters.

They have an open meeting every year… in Florida. They yadda yadda yadda past the easy questions and say they’ll get back to you on the hard ones, close question time after an unbelievably short window, then the hand selected board votes to approve the new dues and everyone goes home. It’s clearly an enormous inconvenience to those Disney sends to participate and they go out of their way to make sure that is clear.

Big Marshawn Lynch energy.

 

[Rex1993]

Maybe I've got this all wrong, so I apologize if I'm confusing everyone. What I am trying to convey is that the Board doesn't appear to have the legal authority to say "we're doing a refurb, hope you like it..." and we all wait and see what happens. I have little knowledge of the the laws in FL but the VGC is governed by CA law and that means that anytime board members meet and discuss anything related to the operation of the Association they need to hold an open meeting, record minutes, or in extremely limited situations hold executive session. (Cal. Civil Code § 4925). This means that by the time there are discussions about contractors, timing, decor, or really anything, the owners should have the full breadth of that information if they want it. See below for the relevant excerpt of the CC&R's.

Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions and Condominium and Vacation Ownership Plan of The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel, A Leasehold Condominium

Section 12.11 Decoration of Units or Vacation Homes

On recording of the first deed of an 0wnership Interest in a Vacation Ownership Unit, the Board shall have the obligation and the authority to determine the interior color scheme, décor and furnishings of the Vacation Ownership Unit, and each Vacation Home within that Vacation Ownership Unit, as well as the proper time for redecorating and renovating such Vacation Ownership Unit, Vacation Home and their contents, and DVD shall have no further obligations in this regard.

 

[crvetter]

Maybe I've got this all wrong, so I apologize if I'm confusing everyone. What I am trying to convey is that the Board doesn't appear to have the legal authority to say "we're doing a refurb, hope you like it..." and we all wait and see what happens. I have little knowledge of the the laws in FL but the VGC is governed by CA law and that means that anytime board members meet and discuss anything related to the operation of the Association they need to hold an open meeting, record minutes, or in extremely limited situations hold executive session. (Cal. Civil Code § 4925). This means that by the time there are discussions about contractors, timing, decor, or really anything, the owners should have the full breadth of that information if they want it. See below for the relevant excerpt of the CC&R's.

Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions and Condominium and Vacation Ownership Plan of The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel, A Leasehold Condominium

Section 12.11 Decoration of Units or Vacation Homes

On recording of the first deed of an 0wnership Interest in a Vacation Ownership Unit, the Board shall have the obligation and the authority to determine the interior color scheme, décor and furnishings of the Vacation Ownership Unit, and each Vacation Home within that Vacation Ownership Unit, as well as the proper time for redecorating and renovating such Vacation Ownership Unit, Vacation Home and their contents, and DVD shall have no further obligations in this regard.

When you (or the initial purchaser) bought DVC you signed over your voting rights to the unit you have a declared ownership interest in to DVD. This then means the owners do get a say you just gave it to DVD. It’s possible to take back but I believe you need 75% of the ownership interest in a unit to do.

This fact they have you sign over the voting rights is why they maintain 2-5% of the voting rights.

Also I suspect they maintain just enough to “sell” to be considered still involved as a developer which also gives them a seat at the board of the association too. Basically everything is rubber stamped because we sign over the rights and they certainly wouldn’t sell you a contract without agreeing to that term.

Edit: they could simply be doing all the designs as the management company and then at the meeting this fall “approve” them. I wouldn’t think the board needs to have a public meeting every time they discuss a simple item but just at the adoption of said plan maybe. So nothing took place outside a board meeting. I would suspect they follow the condo law to the extent they are required in Anaheim given that California is more consumer friendly.

 

[ehh]

Edit: they could simply be doing all the designs as the management company and then at the meeting this fall “approve” them. I wouldn’t think the board needs to have a public meeting every time they discuss a simple item but just at the adoption of said plan maybe. So nothing took place outside a board meeting. I would suspect they follow the condo law to the extent they are required in Anaheim given that California is more consumer friendly.

I try not to navigate legalese much, is there any reason why they couldn't silently pull inventory in anticipation of approval? If they don't get approval they could release those rooms back to inventory.

 

[crvetter]

I try not to navigate legalese much, is there any reason why they couldn't silently pull inventory in anticipation of approval? If they don't get approval they could release those rooms back to inventory.

I mean they could for sure I don’t see why not. Also the approval is just a formality since there is almost no way to overrule the rights we’ve given Disney.

 

[ehh]

Also the approval is just a formality since there is almost no way to overrule the rights we’ve given Disney.

Fair point

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I mean they could for sure I don’t see why not. Also the approval is just a formality since there is almost no way to overrule the rights we’ve given Disney.

I don’t see what’s so hard about rounding up all of your unit’s fellow fractional owners and convincing them to go to war with the nation’s best corporate attorneys.

 

[ehh]

I don’t see what’s so hard about rounding up all of your unit’s fellow fractional owners and convincing them to go to war with the nation’s best corporate attorneys.

I'd just bribe or threaten enough Board members ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Anyway Rex I go back to the Marshawn post I made. Disney is going to do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with, and they’ve done everything they can to stack the deck in their favor on those measures and have made it practically impossible to sue them about it.

If you have qualms with it your best option honestly would probably be trying to draw the attention of CFPB or an anti-Disney politician, which - yes there’s a very high visibility one right now who is in the wrong state - but historically anti-Disney politicians pop up with surprising frequency, and across both parties, and they’d love to know how Disney has manipulated the system to avoid California timeshare laws.

 

[Rex1993]

Anyway Rex I go back to the Marshawn post I made. Disney is going to do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with, and they’ve done everything they can to stack the deck in their favor on those measures and have made it practically impossible to sue them about it.

If you have qualms with it your best option honestly would probably be trying to draw the attention of CFPB or an anti-Disney politician, which - yes there’s a very high visibility one right now who is in the wrong state - but historically anti-Disney politicians pop up with surprising frequency, and across both parties, and they’d love to know how Disney has manipulated the system to avoid California timeshare laws.

I'm not at all anti-Disney and this isn't political for me. As I said before, I love Disney and the DVC product but I don't like situations where laws and contracts are just ignored because of some perception of invulnerability. I also think there are some issues at VGC that should be addressed and aren't.

The thing to remember is that despite the Association board being composed of all Disney employees, the Association is not Disney. It is a 501c4 mutual benefit corporation that represents us as owners.

I agree that DVD stacked the deck but they're not invincible. It's 48 units. We also didn't sign away our votes, owners are subject to a Voting Representative provision in the CC&Rs. That voting representative is of course DVD by default but it can be changed when 60% of the owners of each individual unit agree to designate a new representative.

EDIT:

In thinking more about this, maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Maybe I should be asking whether I'm just too worked up and that the vast majority of owners are totally satisfied with how things are currently done.