Very social/social seeking DD12- Spectrum??- PPT tomorrow!

[Mickeyhead12]

So... the saga continues. DD12 has been diagnosed with GAD and panic disorder- questions of ADD a few years ago. Then last summer was supposed to have an eval by clinical psychologist but was too anxious to participate. However, the psych observed her in several situations/environments at school and questioned whether she was actually on the spectrum. Definite sensory issues since she was a toddler. Went to OT for sensory issues in 4th grade. Also had vision therapy.

So... we went to a psychiatrist at Yale Child Study (who DD would never talk to) and she agreed from reading file, talking to teachers and psych etc that she thinks DD is probably somewhere on the spectrum. Prescribed Abilify last Oct but DD wouldn't take it until March.

She has made tremendous progress on the abilify. Much, much less anxious, much more independent. Actually tells us the medicine helps and makes her feel better.

So... psychiatrist is on maternity leave and we see the social worker who runs the clinic last week and this week. She has read the file, talked to the Dr and talked to us. She seriously questions whether DD could have a "social disorder" or be on the spectrum because she is so socially driven and has friends, goes places with them etc. I tried to explain again today that she has very black/white thinking, gets stuck and has a very difficult time with any kind of change (although we're working on that and she has become more flexible) etc.

I am sooo frustrated!! Anyone else have a child on the spectrum who is very social?

 

[AddictedtoDoleWhip]

I don't have a child on the spectrum, but I hope that I can help you since I am on the spectrum myself and am social (er, somewhat!) I think it's a misconception that all autistic people are very unsocial, I mean yes there are people who do not want to socialize but there are people who want to socialize and like being around others and have friends but do not know what to do in certain situations. I've been told that girls are harder to diagnose because "naturally" girls are more social compared to boys.

For me at least, I like to socialize but it has to be on MY time, I have to be mentally ready to go out and hang out with the friends I have (i only have like a couple, I'd like more but I really don't know how to make friends to be honest.) Now, my problem is i love to make friends but I can't keep friends all that well because I forget to interact with them, I guess you actually have to call/text them or whatever to keep a friendship going. I also get incredibly anxious if I've never hung out with this friend before, if we aren't going somewhere that I am comfortable with and I tend to have issues with being in a group of 2+. While being social is one aspect of an ASD, there are other components and there are three different diagnosis under that umbrella. Also, there are many social autistics who do not understand the social rules, and ques so while they may be "social" they would be seen as still having social difficulties if they were breaking many social cues/norms/behaviors and not knowing it or understanding why.

Best of luck to you!

 

[wdw4rfam]

Yes, I do. I have a DS(10), who is diagnosed Aspergers. He is SOOOOO social seeking, that we require 3 days a week of therapy to try and tone it down. He will talk to and make friends with EVERYONE (people in grocery store, anywhere). He doesn't pick up on social cues, and will just keep talking, following. He was diagnosed autistic at 5 as non-verbal, so what a switch to now have to learn when NOT to talk. Anyways, he is also a very black/white thinker.

 

[carrie6466]

My nine yr old would like to be social, she just has no friends. She doesn't really get what a friend is. Ex. She'll come home from school and say she played with "sally" at recess. I'll say "Oh, are you and 'sally' friends"? She'll say "I don't know, I've never asked her if she wants to be my friend"

She's been in a Social Skills class run by the school social worker for the past 3 years. She's come a long way, but not far enough apparently. We just keep swimming

 

[bookwormde]

First the social worker does not sound like she has much experiance with high funtioning self adapting girls on the spectrum.

My son would like to be social with peers, but lacks the confidnece and skills even though with adults you would have a hard time at first meeting telling that he is on the spectrum (Aspergers).

I work with a lot of other Apsergers kids and one way to tell is in less familiar social situations and how well they generalize skills from on setting to another with people that she does not know well. Having dificulty with transition is a primary clue that whan she has a familiar sitution that she has a "script for" she is fine but take her into situation that she is not prepared for and it becomes very challenging and anxiety generating.

How is her social skills work going (part of the abilify labeling requirements for ASD)?

Tony Attwood has a DVD on Aspergers girls that you should look at

bookwormde

 

[clanmcculloch]

The social aspect of high functioning autism is inappropriate social skills, not lack of them. There's a HUGE difference. My 14yo Aspie is extremely social. She just doesn't socialize in an appropriate manner. When she was younger she didn't understand what personal space was and would stand almost nose to nose with people. Her eye contact was inappropriately strong in that she would hold your gaze and not let go making it very uncomfortable for people she'd be talking to. She doesn't understand social queues and body language so she doesn't know when people are trying to end a conversation or are uncomfortable with the conversation.

 

[blue65829]

For me at least, I like to socialize but it has to be on MY time, I have to be mentally ready to go out and hang out with the friends I have

This is me too! I have lost a lot of friends over the years because I simply cannot do things on the spur of the moment, not that I wouldn't like to be that sort of person, I just literally cannot.

Although I do also have a severe lack of interest in getting together with people most of the time anyway....almost as though I like the idea of friends more than I actually need the social interaction.

 

[mdsouth]

I don't have a child on the spectrum, but I hope that I can help you since I am on the spectrum myself and am social (er, somewhat!) I think it's a misconception that all autistic people are very unsocial, I mean yes there are people who do not want to socialize but there are people who want to socialize and like being around others and have friends but do not know what to do in certain situations. I've been told that girls are harder to diagnose because "naturally" girls are more social compared to boys.

This sounds exactly like my son who is 15 and has Asperger's. He wants to socialize with others but just is unsure how to begin interactions or join groups in progress. He is much better one to one or with two people rather than a larger group of people.

For me at least, I like to socialize but it has to be on MY time, I have to be mentally ready to go out and hang out with the friends I have (i only have like a couple, I'd like more but I really don't know how to make friends to be honest.) Now, my problem is i love to make friends but I can't keep friends all that well because I forget to interact with them, I guess you actually have to call/text them or whatever to keep a friendship going. I also get incredibly anxious if I've never hung out with this friend before, if we aren't going somewhere that I am comfortable with and I tend to have issues with being in a group of 2+. While being social is one aspect of an ASD, there are other components and there are three different diagnosis under that umbrella. Also, there are many social autistics who do not understand the social rules, and ques so while they may be "social" they would be seen as still having social difficulties if they were breaking many social cues/norms/behaviors and not knowing it or understanding why.

Best of luck to you!

This sounds exactly like my son who is 15 and has Asperger's. He wants to socialize with others but just is unsure how to begin interactions or join groups in progress. He is much better one to one or with two people rather than a larger group of people. There are specific times when he wants to socialize and other times when he does not. And he does not make much effort to keep the few friends he has. I have to nag him to call back his friend when the friend calls. Even if the friend has suggested something he wants to do.

This is me too! I have lost a lot of friends over the years because I simply cannot do things on the spur of the moment, not that I wouldn't like to be that sort of person, I just literally cannot.

Although I do also have a severe lack of interest in getting together with people most of the time anyway....almost as though I like the idea of friends more than I actually need the social interaction.

I can also see the above statement as fitting my son. He likes the idea of friends and would like for people to phone him, text him, etc. but often does not really want to make the effort to actually do something with them.

 

[Celidh]

Many of the descriptions above from pp describe my Aspie son very well. He wants so bad to have friends but has none at home at all. He does seem to have a few at school but they tend to come and go depending on who is teasing him. I think some kids would maybe be friends with him but in a small village in a small school, who wants to hang out with the unpopular kid!?!

He is very social but just doesn't do so well at it. One afternoon he had another boy in but after an hour or two he told me that the day wasn't going as he had planned in his head (the other boy wanted to do a different activity and was playing with my daughter) and he wanted to be alone now but knew it would be rude to tell the boy to go. I told him to take some time to himself if he wanted because the boy was playing with his sister anyway and then he could go back down and play. This boy is between my ds and dd's age and does interact with them both so I thought this was a good plan.

He doesn't get when he goes on and on about stuff and people are rolling their eyes at him. He doesn't get that people (especially pre teen boys which is the age he is at) are not comfortable with others in their personal space. I have seen him pat other players on the back and such at ball to say good job if they have struck out when nobody else does that. It's sad because he is so sweet and is trying to make them feel better but i think is just singles him out.

I'm sure age will help him out and a bit of maturity too. A pp mentioned something about being weird. He is quite proud of the fact that his father says he is odd. He is, very odd in what he does and likes but we told him it would be an awful boring world if everyone were alike.

He is getting to the age where he does not want to take his meds to deal with his ADHD symptoms and hates going for extra help at school for "social" stuff. I will soon have to let him make a decision about the extra help. I don't feel it is helpful to force him if he doesn't want to go but i can't help thinking that he listens too much to his father. Same with the meds. His father thinks he doesn't need them and he is starting to say the same thing. He says he doesn't think it helps him. I don't know, I will just play it by ear.

OP, I know your child is younger but thought I would share some of what I am currently dealing with in an older child. He is 12 1/2 right now and jusst starting JR high in the fall.

 

[Mickeyhead12]

Updating...

Thank you everyone for the replies. DD has come so far in the last couple of months. She has been to several sleepovers at friends houses, is going to bed independently without overwhelming anxiety (and me needing to sit and read in her room while she falls asleep). Right now she is at a pet store in town helping out with a friend, they rode their bikes from our house. I think part of the progress is maturity, taking the abilify, and the fact that school is out- much less pressure!

We have applied and qualified for voluntary services from DCF so DD has been assigned a social worker and we are going to work with the iicaps in-home counseling program. They will send 2 clinicians to the house to meet with us and DD. We are framing it to DD as these are people who are coming to get to know her so they can help us plan her school program so she gets the services/supports that she needs and also so her voice is heard in the process. I have only started introducing the idea to her in the last couple days- the clinicians are coming to visit next Thursday afternoon. We are really hoping this works because regular counseling of any type where she needs to go to someone's office does NOT work.

As far as school, she finished the year at the clinical day program but we would really prefer that she not return there. She learned a lot about life that we wish she didn't know and do not want her to think that the lives and issues the kids there have are the norm. There is an 11 year old who is now on house-arrest with a monitoring ankle bracelet for drug possession and a 15 year who is pregnant as well as older kids who are on probation and facing further arrest for drug issues. We do not want that to be her peer group or for her to feel that that is where she belongs.

So... the local school system has offered to have her go to a self-contained class at the high school for 8th grade. She will have 1 teacher for academics and will be able to go out for electives. We are working with them and our ed advocate to plan a program. We are really hoping this works also!

Any advice or suggestions? The school program is very loose right now. They are saying that they will plan the program around her needs and we want to make sure that everything is addressed at the beginning and we are not trying to play catch-up or trying to fix issues after they occur. We will be requesting a 1:1 paraprofessional who can go out to classes with her. She would also like to attend the 8th grade activities (field trips etc) at the middle school which I think would be good to keep her involved with some of those kids since hopefully next year she will be taking 9th grade academics with them.

Thanks all!

 

[clm10308]

[QUOTE

Any advice or suggestions? The school program is very loose right now. They are saying that they will plan the program around her needs and we want to make sure that everything is addressed at the beginning and we are not trying to play catch-up or trying to fix issues after they occur. We will be requesting a 1:1 paraprofessional who can go out to classes with her. She would also like to attend the 8th grade activities (field trips etc) at the middle school which I think would be good to keep her involved with some of those kids since hopefully next year she will be taking 9th grade academics with them.

Thanks all![/QUOTE]

I think it is great that your school district is willing to do so much for her. It sounds like you are in a good district.
Depending on the school, you may find it difficult to get a 1:1 para full time for your DD. If that is the case, you might try asking for the full time only for the first grading period to help her get adjusted. If she is wanting to develop friendships with the other students a 1:1 para will make her stand out and less likely for the other students to want to engage. (if the school agrees to full time 1:1 that is great.)
From my experience, she my have issues with participating in 8th grade activities. I don't mean that the school would not allow it, just that if she is spending all her time at the high school including lunch, those are the kids she will be familiar with not the kids at the middle school. Will that cause more anxiety for her?

I hope everything works out well for your DD.

 

[Mickeyhead12]

Thanks for the reply.

Actually we have been battling with the school district since 4th grade. They kept acting like DD was fine and just manipulating because she would hold it together at school and fall apart at home. They have done things that we could have gone to court over many times but we just want a program that will help DD. Last year she ended up being out-placed at a clinical day school because she just imploded at the beginning of 7th grade. She had been on a partial day schedule (attending all day but only going to mainstream classes for 1/2 to 2/3 of the day) because she just couldn't handle the whole day of demands. When 7th grade started they sent her to 8 new classes, all new teachers, in a new wing of the school without any support and expected her to handle it. She held it together for 2 days then totally fell apart and refused to go back. She kept saying "They're going to make me do everything and I can't!!" Their reply was that she was capable (she's bright) and "seemed fine"..Wasn't I happy that she could seem fine at school? I was livid! I don't want my daughter to be skilled at "seeming fine" I want her to be okay!

Anyway, sorry for the rant. They had another student who was going to need to be outplaced this year- a 9th grader- because they don't have a class at the high school to meet her needs. So it was cheaper to hire a new teacher and create a new space for the 2 girls than to pay to outplace them both. They would like this to work because it saves them money. We are trying to make sure that it works for her- really not concerned about their money at this point.

DD has been to school with the kids in the 8th grade since kindergarten and has some good friends there so she would like to participate with them in some activities. She just had such a negative experience at that school that everyone thinks she should not go back there- especially when there is only 1 year left before she goes to the high school anyway.

DD doesn't seem to mind having an aide with her. It helps her anxiety. I'm hoping they will be able to schedule peer mentors in any classes she takes so she won't need to rely on the aide too much. It would wonderful if there was peer support instead of adult support. Much better for her social skills.

Sorry this so long

 

[babyberger]

Yes, I do. I have a DS(10), who is diagnosed Asperger's. He is SOOOOO social seeking, that we require 3 days a week of therapy to try and tone it down. He will talk to and make friends with EVERYONE (people in grocery store, anywhere). He doesn't pick up on social cues, and will just keep talking, following. He was diagnosed autistic at 5 as non-verbal, so what a switch to now have to learn when NOT to talk. Anyways, he is also a very black/white thinker.

This is my Aspie DS as well! He will talk to anyone, anywhere, of course about his topic of choice. But still he LOVES social interaction. We have known since he was 3 that he had Asperger's but of course it couldn't be diagnosed at the age, then finally at age 6-7 it finally showed on evaluation. I remember someone close to me saying that he couldn't be on the spectrum because he liked physical affection too much. The funny thing is that most Aspies I have met, do love the physical affection and the social interaction. They just don't realize the "normal" boundaries.

My biggest piece of advice if follow your heart, you know your child better than anyone! Fight for what you believe they need. Everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads when I first brought up Asperger's (including DH), but you know your child best!

 

[bookwormde]

You may think this is an overreach but from your description I can not see why your daughter could not be in a general ed class with an HFA. Aspergers trained and experianced Paraprofessional 1 on 1 most of the day.

 

[Mickeyhead12]

Bookwormde- Having her in regular classes with support is our ultimate goal. She had such a bad time last year that I think we need to start in the self-contained class and work her out into the mainstream. I think going from a clinical day school with only 2 classrooms to a regular high school is enough of a challenge to start. Also, she is only going into 8th grade so there won't be mainstream academics at her level. Thank you for suggesting an aide who has experience with HFA. That is definitely something we need to request. She really needs someone who understands what she is dealing with all day and knows how to support her with that instead of saying "She seems fine"

She completed an achievement eval with her teacher at the end of the year to see where she is academically. Her reading and writing scores were good but math was really low- 60s and 70s standard scores. Math has always been a challenge to her. I think she is going to need some serious math remediation.

We still need to have the rest of the psychological eval done. The clinical psychologist who started it was questioning whether she also had some processing problems based on serious discrepancies in her scores from 4th grade. She didn't understand why nobody questioned that before as well as why nobody questioned a spectrum diagnosis.

Today the counselors from the iicaps (intensive in home counseling...) came and DD did really well. They brought a game but she didn't want to play. She went from activity to activity and didn't settle anywhere but did interact with them sporadically. She told them a little bit about our summer and about things she's done. I think it was a great success especially compared to our previous counselor and psychiatrist appts where she covered her head and ended up yelling at us to leave her alone. I'm praying this works. They're meeting her here in her comfort zone and not pushing. She told me yesterday that she doesn't trust anyone anymore. She has said in the past that she doesn't trust counselors and doctors because they always ask her questions about what is wrong. She says she's the kid and she doesn't know what is wrong. That they are the adults and they are supposed to be helping- not asking her.

Anyway, our PPT is next Wednesday. We'll have one more session with the counselors before then and they will go to the meeting with me.

Thanks!!

 

[bookwormde]

You might want to have a auditory processing evaluation done, even though with an ASD diagnosis you will not get a seperate diagnosis, it id very helpful in identifying her EF challenges.

Math for many or our kids is difficult, not due to their lack of ability but in the way math is taught. Our kids need discreete learning, not integrated learning as has been in vouge for the last decade (and has lowered test scores in general). Our kids need to learn core concepts and the computational components of math before they intergrate applicaiton and word problems since this creates a multistep leaning process that is contraindicated by our kids EF system, not to mention that word problem have a lot of social content which adds a whole nother layer of complexity for our kids. Many of our kids also need a lot more repetition to get computational skills and concepts imbedded. The good thing is that once they have it, for the most part they have it forever. It takes someone to teach her math the way she needs to learn it not the "current standard way" that schools us for convenience.

bookwormde

 

[Mickeyhead12]

Thanks bookwormde. I think a Central Auditory Processing eval is a great idea. Her working memory score in 4th grade was in the 25tt %ile!! All of her short term memory scores, especially auditory/verbal were extremely low. The school psychologist at the time gave us a real argument over labeling her OHI for anxiety. He wanted to label her ED and we refused. So he tried to go for an "educational" diagnosis of ADHD! I was livid! How could he label her that when her doctors and therapist had never said that! Anyway, we won and she has an IEP based on anxiety, not emotional disturbance.

She definitely needs to learn math skills by rote and to mastery. I've been saying that since 1st grade. Our district uses EveryDay math which is a spiraling curriculum. They are exposed to many different concepts but never taught to mastery until the higher grades. She would get so frustrated! She wants to work on something until she knows it- not practice a little and then do something else.

We used to work with her on her homework and make sure she really got it. But unfortunately the last 2 years were so hard emotionally that getting any schoolwork done at home was impossible. She was way too spent by the end of the day to do anything.

I think at her PPT this week we need to make short term and long term plans. We need to get a program in place for her to start school and then plan evals that need to be done as she makes progress emotionally and is ready to cope with getting them done.

Thanks so much for your help! I really appreciate all of your insights and advice.

 

[Mickeyhead12]

Our PPT is tomorrow and I am really hoping this new program will work. DD13 is saying she wants to take the bus to school and go in the front door with everyone else (she has the option of going in a side door directly into her classroom) and that she wants to take art with a senior that we know. I'm hoping they have space in the class and will add that for her.

I'm not sure we can get an aide at this point because there are only 2 students scheduled for the class. But what happens when she goes to a mainstream class like art? She can't go by herself, at least at first!

I'm going to play this by ear and see what they offer. Our new iicaps counselors have been here twice now and DD seems to be getting more comfortable. She met them at the door yesterday and sat at the dining room table doing crafts with them. They're coming to the meeting too which should help. School starts on the 29th so we only have this week and next off to get things in place. DD needs to go in and work with her teacher setting up the room and getting used to being in the building before school start.

Wish us luck!