Verizon striking

[NMW]

It results in employers reducing or eliminating those benefits and priveledges for all, it doesn't just get abused by union employees, non union employees abuse these things as well.

I agree with you. I am not anti-union. I sincerly hope that the strike ends quickly and fairly for all involved.

 

[ccgirl]

I completely agree with you about the FMLA. Some people are major abusers of this benefit. I should clarify that I stopped working for Verizon in 1997, so I really can only speak about my experience prior to that.

When I was sick I came back after one day and the union steward actually told me I was making other union employees look bad and sat there and explained "occurances" to me and how if you are "Out for one, your out for 5" works. I just smiled and nodded. I certainly did not agree with her. Why on earth should someone stay out of work 5 days if they are better after 1? I think that kind of thinking has given all union members a bad rap.

You can thank the Verizon union for that. I thought they were there to benefit everyone? The steward explaining you should stay out for 5 rather than 1 ....who does that benefit?

 

[threecrazykids]

I know you are saying that you would cross the picket line for your family and that is great. However, you may not realize that after the strike is over the union can and most certainly WILL come after you for the money that you made while you crossed?? I worked for Verizon in PA and in NJ. I saw them do this to a woman that had crossed the picket lines. A widow with 3 kids no less. If you sign that union card and cross the picket lines, the CWA will come after you for the money. She was losing her house because of the union. It wasn't the company doing this to her, it was the CWA. I had only been working there 2 weeks when I heard about this. I had already signed the card before finding out about this. I was horrified.

I quit Verizon when I moved to another state. Six month later I got hired by Verizon in my new state. This time when the union steward came into our training class with her little union cards I told her "NO WAY" and why. I still had dues deducted from my pay because it is a closed shop, but I was not a union member. I still think about what the union did to that poor woman and her children all those years ago.

So, if they signed their union card, they may not be able to keep the money they earned if they cross.

Just one more reason for me to not favor the unions. How sad...all for one and one for all mentality doesn't work for everyone. Everyone is fighting their own battles outside of work and if people are being sought for feeding and housing their families? How horrible to treat that woman.

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

I find it funny how this union is being made to be the bad guy by some here. I don't know what their absence policy is but protecting a sick worker sounds good to me.How about the company that allows you 1 sick day before you are put on a disciplinary step? Yes there is a company that does that and no they are not union. Lighten up on the union, they're just doing their job. Does anyone remember the triangle shirt factory fire? We don't want those workplace abuses back again or do we?

 

[Judique]

This has not been my experience. Let's not forget my example here, as I have responded on this thread and have been referenced several times. I am the teacher who is being told that I am making those in my union look bad because I have the audacity to come in early and stay late. The overall sense with the union officials in my school is that we literally only work for the exact number of minutes for which we are paid...and anything extra must be compensated.

You have repeatedly talked about coming in early and staying late? What has that actually got to do with whether OTHER teachers put in time?

It has been my experience that many teachers use their 'home' time to prepare lesson plans, correct papers,etc.

Also, dedicated teachers sometimes use their evenings and Saturdays to pursue masters degrees and additional credentials to make them more valuable. Just because you hang around the school before the kids get there and after they leave, does not mean that you are more valuable than another employee, or that you are doing 'more' than another union member.

For all we know, you may be the last hired and will be first to be fired. We only have what you say you do to grade you on. Your Principal may have another opinion.

 

[Judique]

Many non union employers provide good benefits. It isn't just the CEO or security. This is an industry that is taking care of the emplyees and wants to retain them.

Of course they do.

And - what particular industry are you referencing above? The one you work in?

 

[sam_gordon]

You have repeatedly talked about coming in early and staying late? What has that actually got to do with whether OTHER teachers put in time?

It has been my experience that many teachers use their 'home' time to prepare lesson plans, correct papers,etc.

Also, dedicated teachers sometimes use their evenings and Saturdays to pursue masters degrees and additional credentials to make them more valuable. Just because you hang around the school before the kids get there and after they leave, does not mean that you are more valuable than another employee, or that you are doing 'more' than another union member.

For all we know, you may be the last hired and will be first to be fired. We only have what you say you do to grade you on. Your Principal may have another opinion.

Wow, I don't know how you read all that. The PP related the story that she wanted to work later at the school and the union official told her "no". I don't think anyone has doubted that there are dedicated union workers. They are probably in the majority. But there ARE examples (as has been posted in this thread) of union workers "abusing" the system, knowing the union will protect them. Yes, I'm sure non-union workers abuse the system too and get away with it. IMO, there's a difference between "getting away" with something and having it 'okayed' by union leaders.

 

[sam_gordon]

I find it funny how this union is being made to be the bad guy by some here. I don't know what their absence policy is but protecting a sick worker sounds good to me.How about the company that allows you 1 sick day before you are put on a disciplinary step? Yes there is a company that does that and no they are not union. Lighten up on the union, they're just doing their job. Does anyone remember the triangle shirt factory fire? We don't want those workplace abuses back again or do we?

And there are some who are making out VZ to be the 'bad guy'. It's been mentioned in this thread that VZ workers simply take sick days when they need them (that's what the company allows). I don't remember any posts about cutting out sick days... it was about cutting out paid FMLA leave (they're not cutting the leave, which is allowed by law, but would no longer pay for it).

If I took a sick day and got written up for it, I'd be writing up a new resume and finding a new job. I don't think anyone is advocating returning to "sweatshops", but I also don't believe unions are the ONLY thing preventing us from getting to that point.

 

[Judique]

Several questions:

1) Have your earnings these past 3 years come from the same corporation
you now complain about?
2) Would you be repeating the union line about executive compensation if
this were not a contract year?
3) Are these striking workers the only ones capable of performing these jobs?
4) Why do you believe that you are the only ones fighting for the middle
class?
5) What is the true cost that is being asked for medical?
6) Could they outsource service calls to foreign countries?
7) How does you strike benefit all of us?
8) How many jobs will be created here in the US as a direct result of this
strike?

Wish you luck on this but I believe the workers are being unrealistic. There was a sickout of union bus drivers here last week. Besides the obvious troubles they caused the regular riders, they didn't do much to sway public opinion. Our local news ran the story tonight of the grocery clerks having strike training in Burbank,CA today. They have been without a contract since March 3 and have a deal on pensions but are far apart on medical premiums. So, yours is not the only union pushing for benefits. Slowly the public has become numb to these job actions and strikes. These are tough times we live in and it looks as if the economic recovery is going to be slower than predicted. Let's be honest, the items that you all want to remain the same as they have always been will not cost the corporation anything, as they will pass it right along to the customers. That would be those in the middle class that you are fighting for.

So, if you, familyoffive, get ousted from your job tomorrow, who will support you, other than your family?

Does your company have a plan in place to make your transition a seamless one?

Will your severence last until you find another position?

Do you have a pension to take with you?

Will your 401K meet your needs?

Can your job be outsourced?

Are their a giant pool of qualified people capable of performing your duties?

What happens to you if you become jobless tomorrow?

Do you worry about being jobless?

Do you lose sleep over it?

Do you believe that it could happen to you?

Do you feel you are 'safe' from company costcutting in your field?

How do you really feel about your job security?

 

[Tink-aholic]

You have repeatedly talked about coming in early and staying late? What has that actually got to do with whether OTHER teachers put in time?

It has been my experience that many teachers use their 'home' time to prepare lesson plans, correct papers,etc.

Also, dedicated teachers sometimes use their evenings and Saturdays to pursue masters degrees and additional credentials to make them more valuable. Just because you hang around the school before the kids get there and after they leave, does not mean that you are more valuable than another employee, or that you are doing 'more' than another union member.

For all we know, you may be the last hired and will be first to be fired. We only have what you say you do to grade you on. Your Principal may have another opinion.

This is in ADDITION to the time I put in at home. I am talking about the time I take in direct interaction with the students. Some kids come to school early, some kids stay late, either for clubs, after-school help, or they just don't have anywhere else to go. I chaperone dances, weekend field trips, evening social events, advise clubs, and run study-sessions without "extra" compensation...in addition to the grading and curriculum development I do at home as well as the courses I take on my own time (I already have my Masters degree).

For this, I am frequently harassed by my union.

I happen to work in the same department as one of union reps, and he practically elbows kids out of the way to get to his car every day at 2:02. But you are absolutely right on one point, Judique -- because he was hired before I was, if there ever was a layoff, I would go first.

Apparently, that makes sense to some of you.

 

[ccgirl]

I find it funny how this union is being made to be the bad guy by some here. I don't know what their absence policy is but protecting a sick worker sounds good to me.How about the company that allows you 1 sick day before you are put on a disciplinary step? Yes there is a company that does that and no they are not union. Lighten up on the union, they're just doing their job. Does anyone remember the triangle shirt factory fire? We don't want those workplace abuses back again or do we?

WHat is the job of the union? I think we are all questioning what is "fair".

You have repeatedly talked about coming in early and staying late? What has that actually got to do with whether OTHER teachers put in time?

It has been my experience that many teachers use their 'home' time to prepare lesson plans, correct papers,etc.

Also, dedicated teachers sometimes use their evenings and Saturdays to pursue masters degrees and additional credentials to make them more valuable. Just because you hang around the school before the kids get there and after they leave, does not mean that you are more valuable than another employee, or that you are doing 'more' than another union member.

For all we know, you may be the last hired and will be first to be fired. We only have what you say you do to grade you on. Your Principal may have another opinion.

Huh? Confused by this. This poster did not put down other teachers at all. SHe was sharing her experience, how she was chastised for putting in extra work.

And there are some who are making out VZ to be the 'bad guy'. It's been mentioned in this thread that VZ workers simply take sick days when they need them (that's what the company allows). I don't remember any posts about cutting out sick days... it was about cutting out paid FMLA leave (they're not cutting the leave, which is allowed by law, but would no longer pay for it).

If I took a sick day and got written up for it, I'd be writing up a new resume and finding a new job. I don't think anyone is advocating returning to "sweatshops", but I also don't believe unions are the ONLY thing preventing us from getting to that point.

I agree.

So, if you, familyoffive, get ousted from your job tomorrow, who will support you, other than your family?

Does your company have a plan in place to make your transition a seamless one?

Will your severence last until you find another position?

Do you have a pension to take with you?

Will your 401K meet your needs?

Can your job be outsourced?

Are their a giant pool of qualified people capable of performing your duties?

What happens to you if you become jobless tomorrow?

Do you worry about being jobless?

Do you lose sleep over it?

Do you believe that it could happen to you?

Do you feel you are 'safe' from company costcutting in your field?

How do you really feel about your job security?

And, if you are union your performance doesn't matter jack squat. Seniority only. Lets not confuse "sweatshop" mentality for going from 11 to 8 days vacation, decreasing 401K matching contribution and having employees pay SOME money towards healcare instead of having the employer contribute the whole 100%. Big difference between those two examples.

 

[Judique]

I also think it's important to note that Verizon isn't "TAKING" anything away from anyone.

Did Verizon fulfill their contractual commitment to the union workers or did they not? Yes or no answer.

I don't believe Verizon pulled out of the contract, or failed to uphold any stipulations of that the 3 year contract.

The fact of the matter is, that contract expired and a new contract is being written. Sure, it's easy to copy/paste from the prior contract and keep the majority of language from a prior contract, however the company is well within it's rights to completely change all terms of that contract if they decide to "renew" with the union.

Look at Verizon as the consumer to your union workers. You are being hired by Verizon, by choice. Nowhere in that contract does it state that the contract will be auto-renewed at the end of a 3 year term with the contingencies of the contract remaining the same or better.

Good post, threecrazykids.

Which brings us back to the fact that this is a negotiation between Verizon and its potential workers. Both sides have to agree to the terms. We, the potential consumers, really have no say in what happens.

We can hope that the jobs stay in America.
We can hope that what Verizon touts as service gets better.
Perhaps some on this discussion feel that if the workers take a smaller package, prices will drop. Not going to happen...

It really doesn't matter who walked away from the table, or who wins.

Joe Consumer is who will pay in the end.

 

[sam_gordon]

Good post, threecrazykids.

Which brings us back to the fact that this is a negotiation between Verizon and its potential workers. Both sides have to agree to the terms. We, the potential consumers, really have no say in what happens.

We can hope that the jobs stay in America.
We can hope that what Verizon touts as service gets better.
Perhaps some on this discussion feel that if the workers take a smaller package, prices will drop. Not going to happen...

It really doesn't matter who walked away from the table, or who wins.

Joe Consumer is who will pay in the end.

Isn't that the same for any company?

 

[kcrew]

This thread has gotten really, really disheartening and should just be closed. I clicked on it when it was first started because my husband is on strike I wondered how other families affected by the strike were feeling. I thought the thread would be informational and supportive. Instead it is just pathetic and wrought with ugliness and jealousy.

I have to pay into health care, why don't Verizon workers? I don't get Veteran's day off so they should work too. My pension is gone, so I hope they lose theirs too. Why should they have all of those sick days? Why raises, why disability, why vacation, why job security, why, why....boo hoo hoo.

So nasty posters, what ever pay and benefits you currently have, if your employer came to you tomorrow and said, "okay, we're going to reduce EVERYTHING you currently have", you'd tell them that you understood perfectly you'd show up for work the next day and be happy you still had a job? Yeah, right! Or, you'd just quit if you didn't like it, right? Because you are just so darn employable, so, so superior to the 45,000 Verizon workers. Oh, you don't have a job at all? Yes, of course misery loves company and your life will be so much richer if the Verizon workers have crappy benefits.

So 45,000 middle class families are on strike right now. Worried about the uncertainty of their future and about providing for their families. Worried about how long the strike will go on and how they will pay mortgages and car payments if weeks stretch into months...THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT!

 

[moepanz]

I am truly sadden by some the anti union sentiment on this thread. The VZ workers are not asking for anything more than what they already have. As a former CWA member (not VZ) who was sold out by a crappy deal made by the local to protect "pre 1991 hires" I admire the VZ union. If more unions were like them, the middle class in this country would be in a lot better shape. I also would not be sitting on my couch writing this, while some one in Buenos Aries does my former job for a fraction of the money and no medical benefits, I would be at work, making a decent wage and taking pride in my work! I hope the workers of VZ stay strong and don't give "them" back anything! There is a lesson in all of this too. I lost my job 6 years ago because of that crappy deal, we found out on Tuesday that my husband will be losing his job at the end of Sept. as a result of that same crappy deal made 6 years ago. 6 years later a bad deal is still affecting families, VZ has a great union. STAY STRONG VERIZON WORKERS!!!!!

 

[Judique]

Wow, I don't know how you read all that. The PP related the story that she wanted to work later at the school and the union official told her "no". I don't think anyone has doubted that there are dedicated union workers. They are probably in the majority. But there ARE examples (as has been posted in this thread) of union workers "abusing" the system, knowing the union will protect them. Yes, I'm sure non-union workers abuse the system too and get away with it. IMO, there's a difference between "getting away" with something and having it 'okayed' by union leaders.

First of all, she doesn't work for the union. She works for the school system. She has a boss. That is who determines if she does extra, not the union, and since she has a union and if she is asked to do extra, she'll probably get paid. (There are all kinds of little extra ways to get paid in schools - guessing it's a public one since there is a teacher's union. A union can ask her not to be so dedicated (sic), but they can't force her. She insinuates that some 'union' person is on her all the time about her work habits of staying late/arriving early. I doubt this from experience.

 

[sam_gordon]

This thread has gotten really, really disheartening and should just be closed. I clicked on it when it was first started because my husband is on strike I wondered how other families affected by the strike were feeling. I thought the thread would be informational and supportive. Instead it is just pathetic and wrought with ugliness and jealousy.

I have to pay into health care, why don't Verizon workers? I don't get Veteran's day off so they should work too. My *****on is gone, so I hope they lose theirs too. Why should they have all of those sick days? Why raises, why disability, why vacation, why job security, why, why....boo hoo hoo.

A number of posters, me included, have said we don't HOPE union workers lose ANYTHING. We are simply trying to point out that what they MIGHT lose is not unusual. MANY families have already LOST the benefits they're trying to hold AND lived to tell the tale.

So nasty posters, what ever pay and benefits you currently have, if your employer came to you tomorrow and said, "okay, we're going to reduce EVERYTHING you currently have", you'd tell them that you understood perfectly you'd show up for work the next day and be happy you still had a job? Yeah, right! Or, you'd just quit if you didn't like it, right? Because you are just so darn employable, so, so superior to the 45,000 Verizon workers. Oh, you don't have a job at all? Yes, of course misery loves company and your life will be so much richer if the Verizon workers have crappy benefits.

OK, enough of the BS... if my boss came to me tomorrow and said "you have to pay 100% of your health care, we're taking away all vacation, AND cutting your salary in half." I would say 'OK' and start looking for another job. Even if it takes me a year to find that other job, a year of working for half pay is better than a year working for NO pay. Again, no one is saying VZ workers shouldn't get what their contract specifies (although union supporters have said the CEO shouldn't get what he contracted for--hypocrisy anyone?).

So 45,000 middle class families are on strike right now. Worried about the uncertainties of there future and about providing for their families. Worried about how long the strike will go on and how they will pay mortgages and car payments if weeks stretch into months...THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT!

So we should AUTOMATICALLY support ANY union actions? Sorry, not going to happen. I agree unions have a place. I think that either they are fighting the wrong fight, or they are presenting their side VERY poorly.

As far as closing the thread... if you don't like it, you don't have to read it. It's generally been a civil discussion with folks on BOTH sides occasionally slipping. If you feel a post is offensive, feel free to report it.

 

[GJM]

Kcrew - I support you.

My sister is on strike a single mom with 2 kids. She has been worried about the strike, she said at least last time they worked while negotiating a new contract. Verzion wouldn't let me this time.

Some mention sick days - as I understand it they don't get a set amount of sick days. My sister would say if you call in sick, something along the lines of you should just be out for 3 then you get paid with a Drs. note, and then you are on steps. I will have to ask her about it.

 

[okeydokey]

It's amazing how bitter Americans have become. The attitude of "If I don't get it at my job, nobody else should get it either" is really disheartening.

 

[Judique]

This is in ADDITION to the time I put in at home. I am talking about the time I take in direct interaction with the students. Some kids come to school early, some kids stay late, either for clubs, after-school help, or they just don't have anywhere else to go. I chaperone dances, weekend field trips, evening social events, advise clubs, and run study-sessions without "extra" compensation...in addition to the grading and curriculum development I do at home as well as the courses I take on my own time (I already have my Masters degree).

For this, I am frequently harassed by my union.

I happen to work in the same department as one of union reps, and he practically elbows kids out of the way to get to his car every day at 2:02. But you are absolutely right on one point, Judique -- because he was hired before I was, if there ever was a layoff, I would go first.

Apparently, that makes sense to some of you.

All things being equal, it would make sense.
It doesn't always make sense in the real world. I used the phrase 'rif's are funny things' in a prior post. By that I meant odd, unfair, not balanced. In other words, I have seen it in action during the past year - in a school system, complete with bumping. Many lost their jobs and everyone will lose something as in the future the children will be the ones who suffer from the cuts.

However, it is simply your opinion that you are the most valuable. (You are probably wonderful - I am not the judge of that.) And it is simply your opinion when it comes to your coworkers.

And if you do indeed have a union person who is intimidating you when you 'volunteer', maybe you should take it up the ladder. That is not teamwork.