Verizon striking

[southie_chick]

I know I'm "the enemy" (because I'm a Verizon non-union employee) I honestly wish your family the best. This strike is horrible on everyone involved and I pray for a reasonable outcome for all.

You are far from "the enemy" threecrazykids - especially if you're a 1st level manager! You're going thru tough times too, and if you're a 1st level, you may get RIF'd (reduction in force a.k.a. let go) after all you've been thru as a "thanks" from the company. We have a LOT of good managers who the company abuses like that, & they are on our prayer list. It's too bad you have to go thru this too - adding you (& your family) to my prayer list too. Hopefully, we'll get thru this soon.

 

[Judique]

Isn't that the same for any company?

I would think so.

 

[ccgirl]

Here is the thing...MANY employees have had their employers come to them and say the same things and, yes, they did stay at their jobs.

I am not pro-unions, anti-union whatever. Again, I keep asking; at what point does the employer stop absorbing the brunt of the continually increased health care costs? I'm sorry but I just don't see how it is unfair to ask the employee to pay for a portion of their healthcare. Most companies are re-negotiating benefits with their providers (health insurance, disability etc) every year during open enrollment. I think that is fair. The economy is constantly changing and I don't see it as unfair to have employees come up to speed with the times. I get that the employees have always had these things in the past but the economy does not support them continuing to have them.

 

[southie_chick]

I am truly sadden by some the anti union sentiment on this thread. The VZ workers are not asking for anything more than what they already have. As a former CWA member (not VZ) who was sold out by a crappy deal made by the local to protect "pre 1991 hires" I admire the VZ union. If more unions were like them, the middle class in this country would be in a lot better shape. I also would not be sitting on my couch writing this, while some one in Buenos Aries does my former job for a fraction of the money and no medical benefits, I would be at work, making a decent wage and taking pride in my work! I hope the workers of VZ stay strong and don't give "them" back anything! There is a lesson in all of this too. I lost my job 6 years ago because of that crappy deal, we found out on Tuesday that my husband will be losing his job at the end of Sept. as a result of that same crappy deal made 6 years ago. 6 years later a bad deal is still affecting families, VZ has a great union. STAY STRONG VERIZON WORKERS!!!!!

Thanks for the support! I read this board to cheer me up but this thead has VERY little in it that has good vibes. Wish I could post more on this & "clear the air" of some of the misconceptions people have about us "evil" union people but Verizon corporate does read the board - & I want to keep my job.

 

[clanmcculloch]

So nasty posters, what ever pay and benefits you currently have, if your employer came to you tomorrow and said, "okay, we're going to reduce EVERYTHING you currently have", you'd tell them that you understood perfectly you'd show up for work the next day and be happy you still had a job? Yeah, right! Or, you'd just quit if you didn't like it, right? Because you are just so darn employable, so, so superior to the 45,000 Verizon workers. Oh, you don't have a job at all? Yes, of course misery loves company and your life will be so much richer if the Verizon workers have crappy benefits.

Over the past 5 years my company has taken away a lot of benefits a bit at a time and raises have not matched the cutbacks in benefits. Each year it's only been a bit at a time but this year we've just been told that our health benefits will be costing us over $4000 more per year starting in 2012 in addition to everything else. Well, I do have options. I'm choosing to update my resume and start looking elsewhere. Every employee has this option. Until I do get another job, I will continue to do my current job and be happy with what I have. If I can't get another job with better benefit/pay combination then I'll recognize that this is what the market is and deal with it and be grateful for what I do have.

 

[southie_chick]

Again, no one is saying VZ workers shouldn't get what their contract specifies (although union supporters have said the CEO shouldn't get what he contracted for--hypocrisy anyone?).

I - & most of my fellow union members - have NEVER said that the CEO shouldn't get the compensation he's given. We do have an issue with the company paying someone $50,000 A DAY, & then saying that it has to cut back on "our" benefits to save money - HUH? All we're asking for is to keep what we already have, and hasn't hurt the company growth - the company has been able to make record profits while already providing these benefits. The sad thing is, if "we" (the workers) cut back ........ the money the company saves will go to to a bigger bonus for the CEO for doing a good job.
As for hipocrisy, the company wants to take away the Martin Luther King Day holiday (& make it a regular work day) but then they turn around & donate $1 million to the NAACP.

So we should AUTOMATICALLY support ANY union actions? Sorry, not going to happen. I agree unions have a place. I think that either they are fighting the wrong fight, or they are presenting their side VERY poorly.

Agreed - but MANY of us are afraid (including myself) of posting too much on the board (Big Brother is watching). Some day when this is over, maybe we can go over this in detail but for now, your best bet is to stop me on the picket line & I'll be more than happy to talk to you. Many people have, & once they understand the situation, they can judge things for themselves.

 

[sam_gordon]

It's amazing how bitter Americans have become. The attitude of "If I don't get it at my job, nobody else should get it either" is really disheartening.

No. It's "If I don't get it at my job, I won't feel sorry for someone else who doesn't have it." There is a BIG difference between the two statements.
The attitude of "I've always had it, I MUST still get it" is disheartening.

 

[kcrew]

A number of posters, me included, have said we don't HOPE union workers lose ANYTHING. We are simply trying to point out that what they MIGHT lose is not unusual. MANY families have already LOST the benefits they're trying to hold AND lived to tell the tale.

OK, enough of the BS... if my boss came to me tomorrow and said "you have to pay 100% of your health care, we're taking away all vacation, AND cutting your salary in half." I would say 'OK' and start looking for another job. Even if it takes me a year to find that other job, a year of working for half pay is better than a year working for NO pay. Again, no one is saying VZ workers shouldn't get what their contract specifies (although union supporters have said the CEO shouldn't get what he contracted for--hypocrisy anyone?).


So we should AUTOMATICALLY support ANY union actions? Sorry, not going to happen. I agree unions have a place. I think that either they are fighting the wrong fight, or they are presenting their side VERY poorly.

As far as closing the thread... if you don't like it, you don't have to read it. It's generally been a civil discussion with folks on BOTH sides occasionally slipping. If you feel a post is offensive, feel free to report it.

I didn't necessarily mean that it should be closed because it was offensive, just that it certainly doesn't seem very "budget" related, but I suppose that is not unusual....

Again, your quote: "MANY families have already LOST the benefits they're trying to hold onto AND lived to tell the tale"....So this is your hope for everyone else? So, has this happened to you and you are so bitter now that you don't care about anyone else, or are you just so above it all that it could never affect you and again, you don't care about anyone else?

And if you know enough about the negotiations to form an educated opinion to argue in an open forum, please let me know where you get your information. The 45,000 workers aren't even privy to what it really going on in the closed discussions beteen the Union and Verizon.

 

[Judique]

The economy is constantly changing and I don't see it as unfair to have employees come up to speed with the times. I get that the employees have always had these things in the past but the economy does not support them continuing to have them.

But is this true for verizon?

Is verizon not still a prosperous company?

Is verizon just trying to take advantage of the rough times and use it to it's advantage?

Is verizon seeing this as an opportunity to send more jobs off shore?

Sure the economy is tough for a lot of companies.

And, if you are vested in your company and they can't afford to maintain the benefits at the present time, it would make sense to try to ride out the storm - maybe things will get better. or you can go job hunting. maybe you are worth more. Or maybe you'll just get lucky.

The employee message I am getting when I listen to the union workers is that verizon has the funds.

The message I hear from the non union verizon workers is that the union workers should be satisfied, and that verizon has all the money to do what they want, including bust the union.

So verizon the company is doing well. That's great for America! Or is it?

There's that little issue of sending jobs somewhere with cheap labor.

Instead of building America. And maintaining the economy.

Is verizon just making a smart business decison?

Looking after it's investors? Maybe.

if I were verizon I would certainly look at changing some things. That sick policy looks crazy - it's set up for abuse. And it sounds like it restricts an employee who was under the weather for just a day or two from getting any benefit.

 

[kcrew]

No. It's "If I don't get it at my job, I won't feel sorry for someone else who doesn't have it." There is a BIG difference between the two statements.
The attitude of "I've always had it, I MUST still get it" is disheartening.

Oh please, noone has asked you to feel sorry for them. And it is not that Verizon workers "MUST still get it", but it would be pretty ridiculous to not WANT to still get it. There are negotiations going on which means give and take. In the end Verizon workers will give to some extent, and everyone knows and accepts that. Again, it is a NEGOTIATION process and sorry if you are po'd the you can't negotiate with your employer. BTW I am on this thread because I am affected by the situation, but why exactly are you spending your time here, and why are you so getting so worked up?

 

[southie_chick]

I didn't necessarily mean that it should be closed because it was offensive, just that it certainly doesn't seem very "budget" related, but I suppose that is not unusual....

Again, your quote: "MANY families have already LOST the benefits they're trying to hold onto AND lived to tell the tale"....So this is your hope for everyone else? So, has this happened to you and you are so bitter now that you don't care about anyone else, or are you just so above it all that it could never affect you and again, you don't care about anyone else?

And if you know enough about the negotiations to form an educated opinion to argue in an open forum, please let me know where you get your information. The 45,000 workers aren't even privy to what it really going on in the closed discussions beteen the Union and Verizon.

I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with the budget board too!
Wish we could go back to that happy place ...........

 

[Janet Hill]

The economy is constantly changing and I don't see it as unfair to have employees come up to speed with the times. I get that the employees have always had these things in the past but the economy does not support them continuing to have them.

Agreed, Unions will be forced to comply as will all other workers. Seems like the only ones immune these days are federal employees.

 

[ilovemk76]

Over the past 5 years my company has taken away a lot of benefits a bit at a time and raises have not matched the cutbacks in benefits. Each year it's only been a bit at a time but this year we've just been told that our health benefits will be costing us over $4000 more per year starting in 2012 in addition to everything else. Well, I do have options. I'm choosing to update my resume and start looking elsewhere. Every employee has this option. Until I do get another job, I will continue to do my current job and be happy with what I have. If I can't get another job with better benefit/pay combination then I'll recognize that this is what the market is and deal with it and be grateful for what I do have.

I took a 30% pay cut because that is what the going rate is for my job in this environment. It might go up in a year or two but who knows.

Again, no one is saying VZ workers shouldn't get what their contract specifies (although union supporters have said the CEO shouldn't get what he contracted for--hypocrisy anyone?).

I - & most of my fellow union members - have NEVER said that the CEO shouldn't get the compensation he's given. We do have an issue with the company paying someone $50,000 A DAY, & then saying that it has to cut back on "our" benefits to save money - HUH? All we're asking for is to keep what we already have, and hasn't hurt the company growth - the company has been able to make record profits while already providing these benefits. The sad thing is, if "we" (the workers) cut back ........ the money the company saves will go to to a bigger bonus for the CEO for doing a good job.
As for hipocrisy, the company wants to take away the Martin Luther King Day holiday (& make it a regular work day) but then they turn around & donate $1 million to the NAACP.

So we should AUTOMATICALLY support ANY union actions? Sorry, not going to happen. I agree unions have a place. I think that either they are fighting the wrong fight, or they are presenting their side VERY poorly.

Agreed - but MANY of us are afraid (including myself) of posting too much on the board (Big Brother is watching). Some day when this is over, maybe we can go over this in detail but for now, your best bet is to stop me on the picket line & I'll be more than happy to talk to you. Many people have, & once they understand the situation, they can judge things for themselves.

This is not compromising.

You could also PM me to fill me in. Think of the PM as me tapping you on the shoulder in your picket line. It will stay private and never be posted anywhere on the internet.

 

[undertheradar]

So, if you, familyoffive, get ousted from your job tomorrow, who will support you, other than your family?

Does your company have a plan in place to make your transition a seamless one?

Will your severence last until you find another position?

Do you have a pension to take with you?

Will your 401K meet your needs?

Can your job be outsourced?

Are their a giant pool of qualified people capable of performing your duties?

What happens to you if you become jobless tomorrow?

Do you worry about being jobless?

Do you lose sleep over it?

Do you believe that it could happen to you?

Do you feel you are 'safe' from company costcutting in your field?

How do you really feel about your job security?

Why don't you answer all of these first?

 

[ccgirl]

Again, no one is saying VZ workers shouldn't get what their contract specifies (although union supporters have said the CEO shouldn't get what he contracted for--hypocrisy anyone?).

I - & most of my fellow union members - have NEVER said that the CEO shouldn't get the compensation he's given. We do have an issue with the company paying someone $50,000 A DAY, & then saying that it has to cut back on "our" benefits to save money - HUH? All we're asking for is to keep what we already have, and hasn't hurt the company growth - the company has been able to make record profits while already providing these benefits. The sad thing is, if "we" (the workers) cut back ........ the money the company saves will go to to a bigger bonus for the CEO for doing a good job.
As for hipocrisy, the company wants to take away the Martin Luther King Day holiday (& make it a regular work day) but then they turn around & donate $1 million to the NAACP.
So we should AUTOMATICALLY support ANY union actions? Sorry, not going to happen. I agree unions have a place. I think that either they are fighting the wrong fight, or they are presenting their side VERY poorly.

Agreed - but MANY of us are afraid (including myself) of posting too much on the board (Big Brother is watching). Some day when this is over, maybe we can go over this in detail but for now, your best bet is to stop me on the picket line & I'll be more than happy to talk to you. Many people have, & once they understand the situation, they can judge things for themselves.

Bolded mine...I don't care if its $50,000 a day or $50,000 a year. The same can be said for layoffs. How can a company justify layoffs but still pay the unionized employees their negotiated automatic raises? IF the other employees just gave up their raises for a year it could keep jobs but will they do that? Doubt it. That to me is the true hypocrisy. That is the same as the big wigs not wanting to give up any of their money. Their money means as much to them as yours does to you. BTW, certain divisions of the company have been making record profits but others are losing. And, if they are making profits they should keep sucking up the increase in healthcare costs and everything else until they start losing money then it's too late.

Again, I am just not seeing how it is unfair to ask employees to begin to contribute to their own healthcare, decreasing 401K match, and taking away 2 holidays. Just because something has always been a certain way doesn't mean it should stay that way regardless of the current economy.

 

[sam_gordon]

I didn't necessarily mean that it should be closed because it was offensive, just that it certainly doesn't seem very "budget" related, but I suppose that is not unusual....

OK

Again, your quote: "MANY families have already LOST the benefits they're trying to hold onto AND lived to tell the tale"....So this is your hope for everyone else? So, has this happened to you and you are so bitter now that you don't care about anyone else, or are you just so above it all that it could never affect you and again, you don't care about anyone else?

"So when have you stopped beating your wife Mr. Gordon?" I'm going to try this one more time... I don't HOPE anyone loses anything.. (I'm sorry for the emphasis, but somehow this is getting lost in translation somewhere). If your neighbor drives a '67 Corvette Convertible that he's had since he got his drivers license, but needs to sell it for some reason, would you say you HOPE he loses it? No. You'll feel bad for him, but I'm guessing you won't go to him and say "I'll give you money so you can keep it." There's a difference between HOPE and saying "I'm sorry, that's a shame. I'm sure you'll survive."

And if you know enough about the negotiations to form an educated opinion to argue in an open forum, please let me know where you get your information. The 45,000 workers aren't even privy to what it really going on in the closed discussions beteen the Union and Verizon.

I'll be honest... I've based ALL my opinions on what UNION employees have told me. If I've based on argument on something false, it's simply because of what's been posted here on this thread. Please let me know what's wrong and I'll reconsider my position.

Oh please, noone has asked you to feel sorry for them. And it is not that Verizon workers "MUST still get it", but it would be pretty ridiculous to not WANT to still get it. There are negotiations going on which means give and take. In the end Verizon workers will give to some extent, and everyone knows and accepts that. Again, it is a NEGOTIATION process and sorry if you are po'd the you can't negotiate with your employer. BTW I am on this thread because I am affected by the situation, but why exactly are you spending your time here, and why are you so getting so worked up?

Oh, I agree the workers can WANT all they'd like. I want my employer to give me a 10% raise every year. I'm a good employee, I deserve it! I've gotten 10, 15, and even 20% raises in the past, I just want what I've always had. Unfortunately, "you can't always get what you want."

As far as why I'm here... I originally found the discussion interesting. BUT then union workers and their supporters started implying if not outright stating that whoever wasn't supporting the union were "haters" or "want the end of the middle class" or "don't think people should have more than me". I have a problem with that and felt like defending myself.

 

[ccgirl]

OK

"So when have you stopped beating your wife Mr. Gordon?" I'm going to try this one more time... I don't HOPE anyone loses anything.. (I'm sorry for the emphasis, but somehow this is getting lost in translation somewhere). If your neighbor drives a '67 Corvette Convertible that he's had since he got his drivers license, but needs to sell it for some reason, would you say you HOPE he loses it? No. You'll feel bad for him, but I'm guessing you won't go to him and say "I'll give you money so you can keep it." There's a difference between HOPE and saying "I'm sorry, that's a shame. I'm sure you'll survive."


I'll be honest... I've based ALL my opinions on what UNION employees have told me. If I've based on argument on something false, it's simply because of what's been posted here on this thread. Please let me know what's wrong and I'll reconsider my position.


Oh, I agree the workers can WANT all they'd like. I want my employer to give me a 10% raise every year. I'm a good employee, I deserve it! I've gotten 10, 15, and even 20% raises in the past, I just want what I've always had. Unfortunately, "you can't always get what you want."

As far as why I'm here... I originally found the discussion interesting. BUT then union workers and their supporters started implying if not outright stating that whoever wasn't supporting the union were "haters" or "want the end of the middle class" or "don't think people should have more than me". I have a problem with that and felt like defending myself.

Very well put. I want a lot of things too. But, just because I want doesn't mean it is the fair/right/just thing. I want a promotion...I deserve it. I want a 15% raise but the economy really doesn't justify it. I, like you, don't want to squeeze out the middle class at all. However, I can see the "other" side I guess as do you. Again, doesn't mean I am pro or anti union.

 

[sam_gordon]

Agreed - but MANY of us are afraid (including myself) of posting too much on the board (Big Brother is watching). Some day when this is over, maybe we can go over this in detail but for now, your best bet is to stop me on the picket line & I'll be more than happy to talk to you. Many people have, & once they understand the situation, they can judge things for themselves.

You know, I'd have no problem if union members simply said "we don't feel comfortable talking about that." The problem is that isn't what happened. When union members started posting it was:
"They want to freeze our pensions."
"They want to cut holidays."
"They want us to pay a portion for healthcare."
IMO, those reasons are WAY too general. A number of us got on here and asked for specifics while pointing out that MANY workers across the country have already suffered those cuts in benefits. We got accused of being "haters" and HOPING union members lose their benefits.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Agreed, Unions will be forced to comply as will all other workers. Seems like the only ones immune these days are federal employees.

Immune to what? Federal employees pay into their healthcare (Federal Employee Health Benefits are not free) and all hires since 1985 do not have pensions, they are in the Federal Employee Retirement System, which is a defined contribution retirement savings plan ( similar to a 401k).

Facts are wonderful things.

 

[undertheradar]

Remember, according to some posters VZ has already removed that foolish demand to tie raises to performance. There is all of the conflicting information from those in the know on union negotiations about number of current holidays and number trying to reduce, cost of medical premiums anywhere between $100.00 per month to $600.00 per month, freeze of pensions AND the end of the company match to 401k contributions at 6%. What we keep getting is that the striking workers want what they have always had: annual guaranteed raises, free healthcare premiums, 100% company paid pensions, 6% 401K match. the full slate of holdays including MLK Day and Veteran's Day. As has been posted on here and sent via PMs, Verizon has over 100 items that they want changed in this negotiation. What we keep getting told is that these striking workers are fighting for the American middle class and the American way of life. The rhetoric continues about how much money Verizon profits and how overpaid the top 5 executives, how some exec is paid $55,000.00 per day and that money should be used to pay for the union demands.

Exactly how does your union keeping everything that it had in the last contract somehow fight for our middle class? This is a strike that represents between 1/4 and 1/5 of Verizons workers. How does this defend everyone else in the middle class?