VENT: when did protesting become anti-american

disney doll are you even reading what people are posting?

Caity... are you reading what everyone else is writing???

I see nothing wrong with her post and as a matter of fact, I believe DD said what most of us did so I guess I don't see what your point is? Isn't DD allowed her opinion... isn't that kind of what the post is about?
 
Wait -- is this thread about the other thread, or is this thread about protesters in general? If it's about the other thread, then those people are wrong and really are just trying to draw attention to themselves. They're plain out and out hateful, nothing peaceful about them.

Thank you Michelle for your point of view. I've protested at 1 KKK rally, several peace rallies away from actual KKK rallies, 2 nuclear weapons protests and one peace rally in DC. I wouldn't dream of burning the flag. I don't like when others do it, I think it's wrong, but they have the right. :( I wish they didn't.

I wouldn't dream of telling people who don't believe that people have the right to protest, to go live in another country! I would never say, "The US constitution says we have that right to peaceful assembly and if you don't like the constitution you must be anti-American!" Yet I hear people say things like that all the time! Look at this thread!

I don't agree that people should have the right to burn the flag, but our constitution and supreme court judges say they do. Should I go live in another country because I believe that that part of the constitution should be amended and that should not be allowed? I don't think so!

Everybody now! **... All we are saying, is give peace a chance.** :p
 
Originally posted by Saffron
**... All we are saying, is give peace a chance.**

We did. :( It didn't work. :(

IMHO, if we'd finished Saddam and Bin Laden in the past when we had the chance but didn't, 9-11 would never have happened. Something else might have at some other time, but that particular attack would not have happened.

The US coming under attack was bound to happen sometime, we're too big of a target and hated by too many people. But maybe it wouldn't have been such a devastating blow if Saddam and Bin Laden had been out of the picture. :(
 
Ok, if the lady was cleaning up the mess I apologize! If she was one of the "human beings" doing the destruction my original post still stands "Send the ***** to Iraq and let her live there.

Nobody wants this conflict with Iraq. I am sure My Niece doesn't want to see her husband go. Her husband leaves Saturday for overseas. It just burns my butt when I see stupid people doing stupid things like this. They are not going overseas to fight and possibly come back in a pine box, but yet they are able to ejoy the freedom that the person overseas just died for.

You know we feed those countries, we clothe those countries, we give them things out the ying yang. How do we get repayed, by bombs, planes crashing into buildings, innocent people dying. GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!!!!!

I am just about ready to say send a bomb over there and make a parking lot out of the country. I am sorry, but I feel that hate is born in those people, just like a pit bull.

Also if you all want to flame me for what I have said go ahead. I used to have a little different opinion until I had to explain to my son why is cousin has to leave and go fight "the bad men" as Seth calls them. I also seen the sadness in my nephews eyes on Sunday, and my niece saying she was to shocked to even cry.

So you know what? The protesters along with Sadam Hussein can kiss my hairy white butt!

Ok, I'm done!
 

Maybe it's because I come from a military family myself but I have to say that in my opinion it IS ANTI-AMERICAN to burn the US FLAG. In my opinion when an anti-war protester destroys the symbol of my country (it is not the symbol of my country at war, it is the symbol of my country at all times!) they are showing the utmost disrespect for my country and they are not only anti-war but also anti-american. Protesting america's actions (war) is one thing, burning her flag is another.
 
I feel the need to point out a couple things here. . .


1) According to the article posted on the other thread, the vadalism was done by 3 people out of a crowd of protestors, and not only was it stupid because the 9/11 memorial had nothing to do with what they were even protesting, but destroying private property like that is criminal and indefensable. . and besides, I haven't seen anyone defend the actions of those 3 anyway, nor should anyone lump every protester in with them.

2) Before people start making sarcastic remarks I think they should check their facts. . someone posted a link to an article writteen this past Saturday, March 8, that speculated on the possibility of al-Qaida attacking our troops should we invade Iraq. Here are a couple quotes from it:

________________________________________________

"The intelligence does not suggest any kind of coordination between the government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and the al-Qaida operatives; instead officials believe the terrorists are looking to capitalize on the chaos created by any military conflict to strike at American and allied troops.. .

However, intelligence officials (CIA) have generally agreed they have nothing to document that Saddam Hussein had a hand in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks or that Saddam and Osama bin Laden are coordinating terrorist operations."


_______________________________________________

So despite the lies thrown out there by the Bush administration about Saddam being behind 9/11; our own CIA- the people who give the Bush people their information- say it just isn't true.

I have posted before that I think there are legitimate reasons to do whatever it takes to oust Hussein from power, but because Bush, Rumsfeld, and Powell have decided to use inuendo, guesses, scare tactics, and out-right lies to waaaaay overstate their case, they have given not only protesters here and abroad lots of amunition to criticize them with, but thay have also tanrished a lot the credibility they built up because of the admirable way they dealt with 9/11 and the cowardly psychos who were actually responsible for it.


Bottom line is they've been stupid, and it seems to me thier dishonest and misguided tactics have the whole world arguing about a lot of things that never had any basis in reality in the first place.

If anyone can point out some legitimite facts that show a connection between Hussein and the 9/11 attack that isn't rhetoric or guesses by a politician, I'd sure be willing to look at them. .

And one more thing. . when Bill Clinton started lobbing bombs in Suddan to get the Monica Lewinsky deal off the front page and killing innocent people over there, did those who are so upset about anyone daring to disagree with Bush back him? Did you call people who criticized Clinton "un-Patriotic"? Was Bill Clinton "America"?

No, he was a war criminal, and Bush is a liar, and "America" is we the people, not some pinheaded politician no matter what party they're fromor what office they hold. . . .
 
I'm going to start a new thread and ask people, "Who or what is an American to you?" I'd be interested in what people will say. :) :)

Okay, I'm off to start the other thread and see what kind of answers people give. :)


mhopset, I can assure you that the protestors want absolutely nothing to do with your butt. :rolleyes:
 
Willy, I respectfully disagree with you, in your assessment that Bush, Rumsfield, Powell, et al, are deliberately lying or misleading the American people about a link between Al Quaeda and Saddam.

You've quoted ONE article. I've seen many others that suggest something different, that back up Powell's statements to the U.N.

Bottom line is the jury is still out on this issue. I don't think anyone can prove or disprove a link, at this point. It doesn't mean there ISN"T a link, and it doesn't mean there IS a link. At some point, down the line, we will probably have definitive proof, one way or the other, though.

Are you really suggesting that if only the Bush Administration had left this issue out of the eqation that we would then be in a completely different situation than the one we're in, visa via world opinion, the protestors and U.N. Security Council?????

As for the original question posted in this thread, if I think someone's remarks are un-American, I have every right to that opinion, and every right to express that opinion! Just as the person making the anti-American remarks does!
 
Bet, I respectfully ask to post a link or show me the quotes, because I've done quite a bit of research about this and I've never seen anything but assumptions and guesses.

If the jury is still out, why have Bush and Co. been using rhetoric that they have "facts" for the past year now?

I certainly would be willing to look at anything that proves my opinion wrong and have no problem retracting what I said. . :) :)
 
Willy, I will post the links for you, after I take Kyle to basketball practice. :) :)
 
Oh, and as to your question "Are you really suggesting that if only the Bush Administration had left this issue out of the eqation that we would then be in a completely different situation than the one we're in, visa via world opinion, the protestors and U.N. Security Council?????" . . I posted this a couple weeks ago and I stand by it:

______________________________________________
It's a very complicated situation, but here's my take on it..


1) The UN imposed sanctions since the end the Gulf War have successfully contained and weakened Saddam Hussein's abilities to maintain and develop weapons of mass destruction, and would more then likely continue doing so.

2) What the sanctions have also done is cause mass hardship on the Iraqi people who already live under the dictatorship of a psychotic torturer and mass-murderer. The sanctions have led to a sky-high infant mortality rate, poverty, malnutrition, and a severe lack of basic medical supplies in Iraq.

3) Lifting the sanctions is not an option because Saddam Hussein has shown time and again to be reckless, agressive, and willing to procure, develope, and use chemical weapons (although the one's he used against the Kurds before the Gulf War were given to him by the Reagan/Bush people when he was at war with Iran) against his own people and the countries surrounding him.

4) Saddam Hussein is not going to resign or be voted out of office anytime in the near future, and there is no reasonable indications that any sort of internal uprising that could remove him from power is being planned or feasable.


5) Saddam Hussein agreed to certain terms with the UN in order to secure a cease fire and end the Gulf War in order to avoid an invasion of Bagdad and maintain his postion of power. Since then, time and time again he has broken those agreements; he has threatened more agression; he has been caught trying to procure elements to develop nuclear weapons; and he has continued to arbatraily brutalize, torture, and murder his own people.

6) In 1991 when US-led UN Coalition forces initiated Operation Desert Storm in response to Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, Iraqi troops began almost immediate mass defections and surrender, and within 48 hours the Iraqi army had been routed and defeated.

7) 12 years of UN sanctions and inspections have severely weakened the same Iraqi military that wasn't much of force in the first place.

8) Considering the above facts, I feel like an invasion of Iraq is completely justified and is the right thing to do, and many more Iraqi lives will be saved in the long run by doing so then lost during what should be a swift invasion, and the sooner it is done the better. . . but then again every American has a right to feel the way they want and speak their mind about this and any other situation.

9) Rather then stick to the above facts, the Bush administration has made a complete and total mess of the situation by using baseless, overstated, misleading rhetoric about Iraq's current threat to US and world security, and by engaging in a baseless, unecessary, and bizzare attempt to falsly tie Saddam Hussein and his regime to Osama bin Ladin, Al Qaieda, and the 9/11 terrorist attack on our country (bin Laden has prove ties to Iran, not Iraq). The Bush administration has boxed themselves into a position where Turkey was basically able to black-mail them into demanding billions of $'s of our tax money in return for letting us use their country as a point of attack.


As I said, I think there are ligit reasons for use of military force, but if a significant number of people are against it based on false perceptions that it is too dangerous, then the Bush people have no one to blame but themselves. . .


______________________________________________

Would having stuck to the indisputable facts have prevented all protesting? No, but somehow I have a hard time seeing the George Clooney's and Martin Sheen's of the world carrying signs and yelling that Bush is a "cowboy" for wanting to stop the brutal treatment and murder of his own people by Saddam, nor could France and Germany have jumped on the exaggerations to go against the invasion and would have been forced to admit they have financial interests or go along.

I'll also add that while constitutionally protected, I think burning the flag because you disagree with a politician is disrespectful, stupid, and an extremely counterproductive way to express an opinion .
 
I agree that protests are a persons right in this country. My son may die to keep these rights, but if ANYONE burns a flag in front of me, I will show them what a true protest is all about!


Pokie
 
Saffron, re. your 1st post, that protest in Philadelphia was on the evening news. I saw it that night. There were a lot of people very annoyed at the blocked traffic. Some students also chained themselves to the door Naval Recruiting office (where my hubby used to work), thinking they closed down recruiting that day. Unfortunately for them, people just used another door about 10 feet away. That gave me my giggle for the day!
 
Some students also chained themselves to the door Naval Recruiting office (where my hubby used to work), thinking they closed down recruiting that day. Unfortunately for them, people just used another door about 10 feet away. That gave me my giggle for the day!

ROTFLOL! That is pretty funny! :p

I saw it on the evening news that night too. Otherwise I wouldn't have known anything about it. I'm sure the people trying to get in or out of the city were very annoyed by it. :eek:

Pokie: what you said about the flag reminded me of something. I had to write a speech for speech class awhile ago. The topic I chose was burning the flag. Not whether you had the right to do it or not, but whether you should do it. In my research I came across something a Marine had written. This is not the same passage, it's been changed through the years, but these were his sentiments. I'll try to see if I can find you his orginal words for you. :)

For Pokie:

For those who want to light Old Glory on fire, stomp all over it, or spit on it to make some sort of "statement," I say let them do it. But under one condition: they MUST get permission from three people.

First, you need permission of a war veteran....Perhaps a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima? The American flag was raised over Mount Surabachi upon the bodies of thousands of dead buddies. Each night spent on Iwo meant half of everyone you knew would be dead tomorrow, a coin flip away from a bloody end
upon a patch of sand your mother couldn't find on a map. Or maybe ask a Vietnam vet who spent years tortured in a small, filthy cell unfit for a dog. Or a Korean War soldier who helped rescue half a nation from Communism, or a Desert Storm warrior who repulsed a bloody dictator from raping and pillaging an innocent country. That flag represented your mother and
father, your sister and brother, your friends, neighbors, and everyone at home.

Next, you need permission from an immigrant who has recently become a citizen of our country. Their brothers and sisters may still languish in their native land, often under tyranny, poverty and misery. Or maybe they died on the way here, never to touch our shores. Some have seen friends and family get tortured and murdered by their own government for daring to do things we take for granted every day.

Last, you should get the permission of a mother. Not just any mother. You need a mother of someone who gave their life for America. It doesn't even have to be from a war. It could be a cop. Or a fireman. Maybe a Secret Service or NSA agent. Then again, it could be a common foot soldier as well. When that son or daughter is laid to rest, their family is given one gift by
the American people; an American flag.

If you can get permission from all three, and you still feel like burning the flag, then go ahead, you can do it, I fought for your right to do it. But should you?
 
Saffron - that is the most true statement I've ever read, thank you for posting it.
 
If everyone believed everything their fearless leader told them. If they never protested. If they never dared to question their leadership and followed blindly.


We would be Iraq.
 
Could some one please show me this ground swell of belief that any form of dissention with regard to the pending war is "un-American"? Likewise, I've read a grand total of one post that expressed a belief that the actions of the persons that desecrated the memorial were representative of those citizens that are against military action.
 



New Posts





Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom