Valedictorian's speech cut short by school district because she mentioned God...

[Charade]

LuLu, you made too many good points... hard to dispute what you said, other than for them to say that Christ is the only God that counts to them, but then they look like they are discriminating against others....

Huh? If the girl was relating how God and Jesus (or her parents, the milkman, or whatever) made a positive impact on HER life, I fail to see where the descrimination is.

 

[rayelias]

Originally Posted by LuluLovesDisney
Would you feel the same of she were including references to a different religion? Muslim? Hinduism? Judaism? What about Paganism? What about Satanism?


No one wants to answer this?

I am not in favor of the government (school system) censoring a speech. It's a clear violation of the first amendment, for crying out loud. If it were a private school, they have the right to censor the speech.

For 12 years, there was no censorship of evolution (a THEORY, not a proven scientific fact) being taught. Some can consider this religious teaching (Athiesm). Do you have a problem with the school teaching evolution?

And, honestly, I believe that if a student HAD chosen to make references to Allah, Buddah, Jah, etc. that the schoolboard would have been scared out of their minds to stop that speech for fear of retribution from the PC crowd and getting sued by the ACLU (who has been oddly quiet about this - sarcasm).

Simply, it's PC to bash Christianity today in this country.

 

[chobie]

Well, we will probably never have an example of student from a non-Christian religion trying to sneak in a sermon about their God to compare with, because it's only the Christians that seem to feel the need to flaunt their piety in public.

 

[cardaway]

And the problem is that there are very differing opinions on what is and what is not 'witnessing' or 'preaching'.

Actually it's very clear. Talking in the first person about your experience with your religion in doing just that. Talking about it. Talking at all about how your religion impacts or should impact other people is witnessing or preaching. If people can't do one without doing the other that is on them, because it most certainly can be done.

Many celebrities, especially sports stars, do it every time they are interviewed. They thank god and move on. They don't thank god and then go on to say how the other team woudl be better off if they had a better reltionship with god.

 

[cardaway]

Well, we will probably never have an example of student from a non-Christian religion trying to sneak in a sermon about their God to compare with, because it's only the Christians that seem to feel the need to flaunt their piety in public.

Exactly. They can say boo hoo, look at how we are being knocked down, and accurately claim they are the only ones being knocked down. Doesn't matter that for the most part they are the only ones ever forcing the issue.

 

[transparant]

Never mind

 

[ducklite]

Simply, it's PC to bash Christianity today in this country.

I disagree. I don’t think it's Christianity that created this situation. It comes down to two things.

1. She was told that her original speech was inappropriate and what the consequences were to be if she deviated from the approved speech. Rather than working with the school to find mutually agreeable ground, she chose to defy them, and then refused to accept the consequences.

2. Based on the article I found and posted, her original speech crossed the line from thanking God for being a positive influence in her life to proselytizing, which is utterly inappropriate in that forum.

Neither of these issues degrades Christianity. I have yet to see anyone say that she shouldn't have mentioned God, faith, or Christianity at all. I can't imagine anyone of any faith or non-faith taking issue with a comment about how her faith helped her with her accomplishments.

Her original speech was 750 words. Half of it was cut because of continual references to religion, including "God's love being so great that he gave his only son to suffer an excruciated death in order to cover everyone's shortcomings and forge a path to heaven." That statement is where she crosses from explaining how her faith has been a positive influence in her life to giving a sermon on the merits of Christianity.

That isn't bashing Christianity, it's saying that the young lady chose an inappropriate forum to express her opinion, and then defied authority and didn’t accept the consequences after they had already been explained in advance. She might be smart, but she's very immature.

And to put it into perspective, this entire post isn't as many words as were cut from her original speech. If that doesn't show that it had become a sermon, I don't know what will.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Thats funny. I don't recall anyone flying planes into buildings or blowing holes in the sides of ships in the name of Christianity.

I don't recall anyone blowing up abortion clinics or shooting doctors in the name of Islam.

The majority of Muslims decry the acts of a few radicals.

Anne

 

[transparant]

I don't recall anyone blowing up abortion clinics or shooting doctors in the name of Islam.

The majority of Muslims decry the acts of a few radicals.

Anne

As do the majority of Christian in the acts that you posted. There have been MANY different acts of speech/killing etc. from many different religions across the globe - not just Christianity as Chobie spoke.

 

[cardaway]

For 12 years, there was no censorship of evolution (a THEORY, not a proven scientific fact) being taught. Some can consider this religious teaching (Athiesm). Do you have a problem with the school teaching evolution?

That's beyond a stretch. Athiesm only gets called a religion when some religious person is having to stretch to make a point. It is not a religion.

And, honestly, I believe that if a student HAD chosen to make references to Allah, Buddah, Jah, etc. that the schoolboard would have been scared out of their minds to stop that speech for fear of retribution from the PC crowd and getting sued by the ACLU (who has been oddly quiet about this - sarcasm).

The difference being that people typcially do that and stop rather than going on about how others should believe the same way. Given that there is no comparison.

Simply, it's PC to bash Christianity today in this country.

And that would be on them. I have seen numbers that say the Christian majority may be as high as 80%. Given that you don't get to it being "PC to bash Christianity" without it being a lot of Christians bashing other Christians when they deserve it.

 

[NewJersey]

PC to bash Christianity?

Last time I checked, it was the religious right that was sadly running this country. I find it absolutely appalling when some of these same Christians dare try to judge the lifestyle of others, especially homosexuals. Most of the time, it'd be pretty shameful to find the skeletons in their closets but of course that doesn't matter because identifying the sins of others is more important. Christians seems to use the idea that "if you're not with us, then you're against us."

 

[salmoneous]

I am not in favor of the government (school system) censoring a speech. It's a clear violation of the first amendment, for crying out loud. If it were a private school, they have the right to censor the speech.

I keep cracking up when I read this. Do the people who believe this know any teenagers? Many - including the ones who get good grades - are angry, bitter, arrogant rebels. Given five minutes to say whatever they want, they would fill graduations with speeches explaining everything that is wrong with their parents/techers/schools/ex-girlfrieds/etc. (Many moons ago I gave a valedictory speech and was given 4 pages of guidelines and had a committee of 6 folks edit the heck out of what I wrote. You can bet my speech would have been very different if allowed to say whatever I wanted).

For 12 years, there was no censorship of evolution (a THEORY, not a proven scientific fact) being taught. Some can consider this religious teaching (Athiesm).

I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks that evolution is religious teaching doesn't understand evolution at all.

 

[declansdad]

After reading much of this thread I would like to add my thoughts (which have been said by many of you).

First, I don't believe that this is a free speech, censorship, or seperation of church and state issue. This is simply an issue of one person who did not follow the rules that she knew about. She knew the consequences of not following the rules and made the decision to break them anyway. The only one at fault here is her.

Second, the valictorian is chosen to represent the entire graduating class. The speech is suppose to be about reflecting on the class's time in the school and saying farewell. It is not suppose to be about the individual giving the speech.

 

[chobie]

This whole thing is bringing me back to the stupid "war against Christmas" threads. You know, people saying they were going to wish others a Merry Christmas and they didn't care who they offended! What a way to honor Jesus and reflect the true meaning of Christmas. Now we have a girl disregarding her fellow students' feelings and lying to the school. Is that really the way Christians want their message spread?

 

[transparant]

This whole thing is bringing me back to the stupid "war against Christmas" threads. You know, people saying they were going to wish others a Merry Christmas and they didn't care who they offended! What a way to honor Jesus and reflect the true meaning of Christmas. Now we have a girl disregarding her fellow students' feelings and lying to the school. Is that really the way Christians want their message spread?

It doesn't sound like she was going against her fellow students feelings. I've heard a few of them interviewed and they were on her side.

Now, the day after, McComb says she got nothing but support from her fellow students. "All of my classmates came up to me and were so happy. They told me they loved me and I said God's awesome because I couldn't have done it without him."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13419742/

 

[chobie]

It doesn't sound like she was going against her fellow students feelings. I've heard a few of them interviewed and they were on her side.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13419742/

Be that as it may, is still does not excuse the lying and conniving part nor does it reflect well on young Christians IMO.

 

[Charade]

Well, we will probably never have an example of student from a non-Christian religion trying to sneak in a sermon about their God to compare with, because it's only the Christians that seem to feel the need to flaunt their piety in public.

There are MANY other religions that "flaunt" their religion in public. Maybe not in the same fashion as this girl but it still happens regardless.

If you don't like public expressions of religion, ignore it. Or in this case, just suck it up for 5 minutes.

If the kid had stated that playing video games really helped develope their set of life skills, you probably would have thought they were a kook. Maybe even funny.Toss religion (especially Christian) into it and now it's offensive, inappropriate, a sermon and shoving religion down others throats.

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

I do think that religion is an important part of a teen's life, but this girl stepped way over the line. I would not have been bothered had she made a passing mention of God, but from what I've read she was clearly preaching Christianity. While many or even all students at the school may be Christians, it's still a public school. That one student who is not a Christian shouldn't have another religion forced on them in a public school. How would all the Christians feel if the speech had been preaching the virtues of Islam, Buddism, Wicca or Atheism? Since the girl was Valedictorian, she is smart enough to have written a speech that subtly conveys her beliefs, but she wanted to defy the authorities through deception.

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

There are MANY other religions that "flaunt" their religion in public. Maybe not in the same fashion as this girl but it still happens regardless.

If you don't like public expressions of religion, ignore it. Or in this case, just suck it up for 5 minutes.

If the kid had stated that playing video games really helped develope their set of life skills, you probably would have thought they were a kook. Maybe even funny.Toss religion (especially Christian) into it and now it's offensive, inappropriate, a sermon and shoving religion down others throats.

A few questions:

1. What other religions in the US flaunt their religion in public SCHOOLS?

2. Do you understand that it's okay to express your religious beliefs when out in public, but public school officials are under an obligation to keep church and state seperate?

3. Do you even understand the concept of seperation of church and state?

 

[NewJersey]

There are MANY other religions that "flaunt" their religion in public. Maybe not in the same fashion as this girl but it still happens regardless.

If you don't like public expressions of religion, ignore it. Or in this case, just suck it up for 5 minutes.

If the kid had stated that playing video games really helped develope their set of life skills, you probably would have thought they were a kook. Maybe even funny.Toss religion (especially Christian) into it and now it's offensive, inappropriate, a sermon and shoving religion down others throats.

Did you read the article about her original speech? someone posted it a whillleeeee back. But, before I read it I stuck for her saying she should be allowed to thank God for helping her in her life. But from the sounds of it, her first speech contained preaching, which to me is a no-no. And, she broke the rules. Lest we forget that. If this wasn't about Christianity and she took matters in her own hands still, this wouldn't be that big of a deal.