Vaccine harassment

[Gf77]

Essentially we’ll have two classes of people. Those that vaccinated. And those that didn’t.

Those that don’t will be able to do less. We already see that with cruises and sea world in CA. This is our reality.

At work I don’t see how this is any different than a flu shot.

Yes, dividing people into classes and giving different freedoms and rights to each...what could go wrong? If only they had invented history books, we would know the answer by reading them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

At work I don’t see how this is any different than a flu shot.

No one is saying it is. But you also, unless it was previously required for employment, likely didn't ran into a situation where your boss came over and grilled you about getting a vaccine or not. Def. never happened with me and for my husband's company that runs flu vaccine clinics at the office you just fill out online what time and who is getting it (as in who is covered under the insurance policy). His boss doesn't get involved. That's why companies have to figure out how they want to handle covid vaccines.

 

[RamblingMad]

No one is saying it is. But you also, unless it was previously required for employment, likely didn't ran into a situation where your boss came over and grilled you about getting a vaccine or not. Def. never happened with me and for my husband's company that runs flu vaccine clinics at the office you just fill out online what time and who is getting it (as in who is covered under the insurance policy). His boss doesn't get involved. That's why companies have to figure out how they want to handle covid vaccines.

The way I know everyone that got one was complaining about the side effects. Everyone that got one also complained. I didn’t ask anyone if they got it. But I know who took time off work to recover and who didn’t. I also know who took time off to get it. We have two threads here where folks complain about side effects. It’s the same in the office. You don’t have to ask. People will pretty much tell you without asking.

And not asking is more about being polite. There isn’t any labor law preventing me from asking. I don’t to be nice and respect their privacy.

 

[RamblingMad]

Yes, dividing people into classes and giving different freedoms and rights to each...what could go wrong? If only they had invented history books, we would know the answer by reading them.

It’s no different than schools requiring the MMR. Parents can choose to home school.

And it’s not like it costs anything.

Our society has been class based for so long. If you have ever flown in a private jet, you know you have far more freedom than flying commercial.

 

[HopperFan]

I truly appreciate everyone’s responses and thank you all for your frankness and kindness. . I will relay this information to her, with hopes that everything sinks in and she can move forward in a productive way.

OP I have just glanced through because obviously there will be pro/con opinions about the actual vaccine that really don't factor in to your question. As a former employee in a Franchised company (I worked corporate) the Owner/Franchisee would likely be given free reign here to make these employee decisions. I don't think corporate will get involved at all since there is no crime committed and it doesn't involve a customer or customer service. What the owner could do is respond that he is very concerned about his customers particularly since salons were hit hard, and he's trying to provide a safe environment for customers.

How he handled it sounds gross and the fact that she recorded him tells me she already doesn't feel comfortable with the emotional environment there. If it were my daughter (I have one), since it's not a high level position and she should be able to get another job, I would tell her to quit. The way he is acting I wouldn't be surprised if he fired her and she wants to be a step ahead of him, not have that on her record. Put it behind her and find something else. I wish her good luck!

I think you are confused. The "E" in EUA is for emergency, not experimental.

Agree.

There has been many discussions regarding the legality of requiring and there is no clear answer. It seems that employers may be allowed to require it even though it's at EUA status. The legal barriers are not strong enough to prevent. It will be an interesting ride for sure to see how it lands. Entities will present they are trying to protect their employees, customers, students etc from mass infections - the law might likely be on their side.

Just give em the day off with pay to go get their vaccine. Gotta prove it to get the pay. That will get em off the fence real quick.

I know someone that lets you go get the vaccine and after you provide proof of fully vaccinated you get a 1/2 day off perk plus $200. They said how is that fair if I don't get it I don't get the extras. Well, it's a reward for an action like reimbursing for classes or commission on sales. You don't have to get it, but you don't get the perk they are offering. It is going to take the private sector whether in this respect or requirements for travel/cruise/college/school etc to get to herd immunity.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The way I know everyone that got one was complaining about the side effects. Everyone that got one also complained. I didn’t ask anyone if they got it. But I know who took time off work to recover and who didn’t. I also know who took time off to get it. We have two threads here where folks complain about side effects. It’s the same in the office. You don’t have to ask. People will pretty much tell you without asking.

And not asking is more about being polite. There isn’t any labor law preventing me from asking. I don’t to be nice and respect their privacy.

Re-read your comment. Information is being voluntarily given. Chit-chat among employees is voluntary. Your boss coming up to you and asking if you're getting the vaccine and then if you answer truthfully in how you feel saying "Don’t you care about protecting other people” and “What else do you need to learn about. Millions of people got it and are fine so it’s safe” is not the same. It just isn't. There is a power dynamic there that changes the discussion.

And if you had been reading this thread you would know that at least me haven't mentioned it's against any sort of law to ask, we've known for many months that businesses may be allowed to require it. But that's also why I've said multiple times these companies need to figure out what their policy is going to be. And they should do that before they act on it (which is why I brought up my mom and her confronting guests not wearing masks without knowing the company policy regarding what to do with those not wearing masks). It would still be IMO that such discussions should be asked in private out of professionalism. And a lecture regarding why to get a vaccine is not appropriate either for a boss. You either need to accept their answer as such or not which may mean you don't want to employ them.

 

[RamblingMad]

Re-read your comment. Information is being voluntarily given. Chit-chat among employees is voluntary. Your boss coming up to you and asking if you're getting the vaccine and then if you answer truthfully in how you feel saying "Don’t you care about protecting other people” and “What else do you need to learn about. Millions of people got it and are fine so it’s safe” is not the same. It just isn't. There is a power dynamic there that changes the discussion.

And if you had been reading this thread you would know that at least me haven't mentioned it's against any sort of law to ask, we've known for many months that businesses may be allowed to require it. But that's also why I've said multiple times these companies need to figure out what their policy is going to be. And they should do that before they act on it (which is why I brought up my mom and her confronting guests not wearing masks without knowing the company policy regarding what to do with those not wearing masks). It would still be IMO that such discussions should be asked in private out of professionalism. And a lecture regarding why to get a vaccine is not appropriate either for a boss. You either need to accept their answer as such or not which may mean you don't want to employ them.

The labor laws typically favor the employer in the US. HR departments essentially protect the company. It’s been that way for a very long time.

The OP can always work somewhere else. Nothing is likely to change since this is the owner. Complaining won’t fix her problem.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about who had deeper pockets.

 

[White Cat]

Just give em the day off with pay to go get their vaccine. Gotta prove it to get the pay. That will get em off the fence real quick.

I do, do that.

 

[White Cat]

How many people do you employ in your business? Do you ask a prospective employee if they've ever cheated on their wives? Operated under the influence and never been caught? Do they smoke? I can think of plenty of "poor choices" your employees probably make that you have no idea about, that you somehow view as less evil as a refusal to take a vaccine in your mystical "good choices" hierarchy. "Oh Bob, he hits his wife every night after he drinks a sixer and he has the work ethic of a sloth, but at least he's vaccinated. Rick over there is my hardest worker and he fosters five children and runs a non-profit on the weekends, but get this...he didn't take this vaccine. FIRED!"

The crazy part of all of this is how people have taken something like a vaccine, which have existed for hundreds of years, and made it the next "politics". First it was which team you liked (oh you like the Yankee's? Scumbag!), then it was political side you were on, now it's if you've taken this vaccine (not the other 19 vaccines we are given in our lifetime, this exact, specific one is all that matters). We can't just let people live their lives, we need to DEMONIZE them for daring to think or speak or act differently than what is "normal". This is not a good world to pass down to your children.

180.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

How many people do you employ in your business? Do you ask a prospective employee if they've ever cheated on their wives? Operated under the influence and never been caught? Do they smoke? I can think of plenty of "poor choices" your employees probably make that you have no idea about, that you somehow view as less evil as a refusal to take a vaccine in your mystical "good choices" hierarchy. "Oh Bob, he hits his wife every night after he drinks a sixer and he has the work ethic of a sloth, but at least he's vaccinated. Rick over there is my hardest worker and he fosters five children and runs a non-profit on the weekends, but get this...he didn't take this vaccine. FIRED!"

The crazy part of all of this is how people have taken something like a vaccine, which have existed for hundreds of years, and made it the next "politics". First it was which team you liked (oh you like the Yankee's? Scumbag!), then it was political side you were on, now it's if you've taken this vaccine (not the other 19 vaccines we are given in our lifetime, this exact, specific one is all that matters). We can't just let people live their lives, we need to DEMONIZE them for daring to think or speak or act differently than what is "normal". This is not a good world to pass down to your children.

I don't think anyone here would consider beating one's wife as less serious than failing to get a vaccine. I as a business person would never let Bob Slide. Part of my job as a business owner is to provide a safe working environment. Having Wife Beater Bob around doesn't fit that bill. Further, if you look at the media today, it is precisely the same commentators that are anti mask and anti vax that also think lightly of domestic violence and poo poo sexual assault and harassment even to the point of making fun of the victims of such. As for not knowing about some bad choices, we can't very well expect people to act on things they don't know about.

Yes, dividing people into classes and giving different freedoms and rights to each...what could go wrong? If only they had invented history books, we would know the answer by reading them.

I'm not sure exactly what in history you mean by history books but I would assume you're talking about segregation,
Requiring a vaccine to enter a stadium or work at a certain place or eat at a restaurant or go to school is not really giving people different freedoms because everyone is subject to the same rules. Everyone has the same exact freedom no matter who they are. They are free to get the vaccine and enter or do not get the vaccine and don't enter. It's the same as traveling by air. You can either throw what is not allowed on the plane away or you can not go. It doesn't matter who you are. During segregation, there was nothing blacks could ever do, to use white facilities because of who they are. That is a big difference and a key difference imo.

 

[leahgoogle]

It’s no different than schools requiring the MMR. Parents can choose to home school.

And it’s not like it costs anything.

Our society has been class based for so long. If you have ever flown in a private jet, you know you have far more freedom than flying commercial.

Actually, in most states you can fill out a religious or philosophical exemption to be put on file at school, college or work and you don’t have to get any vaccines if you don’t want to and you can still attend.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The labor laws typically favor the employer in the US. HR departments essentially protect the company. It’s been that way for a very long time.

The OP can always work somewhere else. Nothing is likely to change since this is the owner. Complaining won’t fix her problem.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about who had deeper pockets.

You're not getting. I'm not arguing against even asking in the first place. I said IMO best to do it privately and that all these companies need to figure it out as in will they ask or won't they, will they require it or won't they, how will they ask or won't ask. It doesn't appear you're reading the whole thread because you wouldn't be quoting me if you were, talking about something I'm not even talking about or have said I was against. Don't see this conversation going anywhere so agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

The labor laws typically favor the employer in the US. HR departments essentially protect the company. It’s been that way for a very long time.

The OP can always work somewhere else. Nothing is likely to change since this is the owner. Complaining won’t fix her problem.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about who had deeper pockets.

I don't think you're really looking at what the other person is saying in their comments. It's like you're having your own conversation but quoting someone else.

 

[StacyStrong]

I'm not going to lie, I think it's pretty hilarious how focused people are on the "it's not fully FDA approved!!!" argument. As if a rubber stamp 3 months from now will suddenly make the vaccine super duper safe.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

To be fair, anti-vaxxers are nothing new and I've been judging them harshly for it for years.

Covid I think is less anti-vaxxers and more people falling into hesitancy that ordinarily wouldn't. There's a lot of people willing at least (not saying they do get it but are willing) to get the flu vaccine, get other immunizations but are iffy on this one. If you're really only talking about actual anti-vaxxers yes they typically are judged harshly by the majority. Covid vaccine on the other hand public health officials are treating this with more gentleness, rather than strong-arm tactics most are hoping to do more easing of fears, education and sympathy. I have to say I agree that for most people it's going to be the better way to get people to cross over.

 

[StacyStrong]

Yes, dividing people into classes and giving different freedoms and rights to each...what could go wrong? If only they had invented history books, we would know the answer by reading them.

Yikes. You don't have the constitutional right to a private business.

"Man, I don't want to wear a shirt into this grocery store! How dare they give people who wear shirts the right to enter this grocery store, but not me!"

 

[Gf77]

Yikes. You don't have the constitutional right to a private business.

"Man, I don't want to wear a shirt into this grocery store! How dare they give people who wear shirts the right to enter this grocery store, but not me!"

Show me where I said that.

 

[StacyStrong]

Anywho, in response to the OP, the EEOC has already said that employers can both mandate vaccination and inquire into whether an employee has gotten a vaccination. The supervisor here sounds like...a not great person.....but also OP's daughter reacted very poorly as well.

 

[StacyStrong]

Show me where I said that.

You literally responded to a post about sea world and cruises stating that it gives people different freedoms and rights. It doesn't. It's the same as requiring someone to wear a shirt in a private business.

 

[VandVsmama]

Reader's Digest answer: Pick your battles.

Longer answer:
Was the boss being a jerk and a butt head? Totally.
Should the boss have handled all of that differently? Totally.
Should this have really been your daughter's "hill to die on?"

That depends. Depends on how badly she needs the work. Depends on what she thought her chances might be of getting a new job at a different place...from what I've seen lately, lots of places are hiring and are having a hard time finding people, so that puts the overall job market in the job seeker's favor.

Could your daughter have handled that whole situation differently in order to avoid becoming a target and to even deflate or reduce some of the boss' anger & hostility? Yes. Consider the tone of these different types of replies:

• "That's none of your business and I don't have to tell you whether or not I'm vaccinated or even if I want to get vaccinated."
• "Oh, um...I'm not sure...I guess...but...um...I think I want to do more research on it. I'm not sure if I should get it."
• "Why do I have to answer that question?"
• "You know what? That's a great idea. I thought there were still age-related restrictions to who could get vaccinated. I'm going to follow up on this. Thanks for asking!"
• "I'm checking with my doctor on that. Thanks for the reminder!"
• "I don't think you're allowed to ask me that. I'm going to call corporate on you."