Vaccinations

[barkley]

just as an fyi on polio. (pre vaccine development) the highest impacted areas/households by polio epidemics were those that had BETTER sanitation and practiced higher levels of day to day hygene. rural and urban areas that had lacking sanitation had much lower instances of outbreak. it seems that when polio appeared in a community, those children who had been exposed more to envioronmental germs/diseases had a greater resistance/immunity to it. kids whose moms realy sheltered them from the environment ('don't play in the dirt', constant hand washing) when exposed were far more likely to come down with it.

there's allot of current research being done into polio-the survivors of the big epidemics are now entering their senior years, and many are experiencing with age a reoccurance of the smptoms they had with polio (limited mobilitiy of some limbs, partial intermittant paralysis)-Post Polio Syndrome.

there's some recent reports/studies that cite concerns in the medical community about 'over sanitizing' kids and not letting them build up natural immunities to certain diseases. there's also been outbreaks of some diseases on college campuses, and the kids that largly get hit the hardest are those that were highly restricted in their exposure to others (kind of the overkill thing of never letting them play with someone who has 'the sniffles', sequestering during flu season-perpetual use of hand sanitizers)-they don't have a natural immunity based on their bodies experiencing lower level infections and common illnesses.

i chose to have my kids vaccinated-personal choice. i have no issue with parents who chose not to, so long as they take action to get children appropriate medical care to ensure their health, and get them immediate attention when they show symptoms of serious illness (this was not the case with the client base i served that used the 'waivers' not for religious or personal reasons, but rather as a means to excuse themselves from 'the hassle' of taking their kids in for routine medical care). i've just seen cases that would break your heart-kids blinded after high fevers from measles and scarlett or rhumatic feaver, hearing loss as well. sterility in fathers who caught mumps from their child (was the first child of what was planned to be many-ended up being the only), babies born with terrible birth defects because mom was exposed to rhubella via a child their child attended school with

 

[pigget74]

there's some recent reports/studies that cite concerns in the medical community about 'over sanitizing' kids and not letting them build up natural immunities to certain diseases. there's also been outbreaks of some diseases on college campuses, and the kids that largly get hit the hardest are those that were highly restricted in their exposure to others (kind of the overkill thing of never letting them play with someone who has 'the sniffles', sequestering during flu season-perpetual use of hand sanitizers)-they don't have a natural immunity based on their bodies experiencing lower level infections and common illnesses.

OT-- from what I have read all this anitbacterial stuff is also helping in the spread of staph (in people being more likely to get). I know it can show up anywhere, but without the good germs on the skin there is nothing to fight it off at first. My oldest DS has had it since end of July on his arm (half dollor size --thought he was bit by a spider) and twice on his knee. I now know what to look for for begnning signs. It is going through our community like crazy.

 

[Bird-Mom]

i've just seen cases that would break your heart-kids blinded after high fevers from measles and scarlett or rhumatic feaver, hearing loss as well. sterility in fathers who caught mumps from their child (was the first child of what was planned to be many-ended up being the only), babies born with terrible birth defects because mom was exposed to rhubella via a child their child attended school with

This is out and out scare/tug at your heartstrings tactics. What was the medical background of these children? Do you know for a fact that they were all unvaccinated? Are they immunosuppresed? I truly believe that the immune system is designed to deal with viruses as it is created. The dangers of messing with an intact immune system are more risky to me. This is part of why we do not vax. I refuse to risk the complications of messing with Mother Nature. If the mothers and fathers are catching the disease, what does that say about vaccination? It doesn't work in the long term. Unfortunately, the current recommendations are add another booster. More poison to the system. However, it will either not work, or give limited immunity.

As for rubella, the MMR is notorious for not giving immunity. I am a midwifery student and assistant to a midwife. Rubella immunity is on the standard panel for prenatal bloodwork. I cannot count the number of women who show no immunity to rubella despite being vaccinated more than twice (the current recommendation). Some of them go get the vax after babe is born, and then still show no immunity.

 

[Bird-Mom]

OT-- from what I have read all this anitbacterial stuff is also helping in the spread of staph (in people being more likely to get). I know it can show up anywhere, but without the good germs on the skin there is nothing to fight it off at first. My oldest DS has had it since end of July on his arm (half dollor size --thought he was bit by a spider) and twice on his knee. I now know what to look for for begnning signs. It is going through our community like crazy.

Antibacterial soap, hand sanitizer and the overuse of antibiotics is leading to a superbug. If as a society we keep trying to kill off every germ, the germs will mutate and get harder and harder to fight.

I also wanted to let you know that if you only are doing vaxes for school and daycare, you might want to check your state's schedule vs your pediatrician's schedule. Often, the "requirements" on the state schedule will be less than that of the AAP. Just FYI.

 

[Bird-Mom]

My question is.... If vaccinations cause so many problems like autism, why is autism on the rise and not so many cases years ago when vaccinations probably included alot more than they do now? I had all my vaccinations and I am ok as well as my sisters and my father through the military. But I don't go into debate about it because I feel I do what is best for my child and you do what you feel is best for yours. Although I did vaccinate my daughter my sister does not vaccinate her son. Do I argue with her? No I may think it is not what I would do but it is not my child. Just remember that only you can make the decision for your child don't let anyone else tell you what to do, and OP I feel you do have the right to say when you want to get the shots done. It is not like you are saying no to the vaccinations just how and when they are given. Good luck and I hope your little guy feels better soon!

I just wanted to touch on this. Vaccination for so many illnesses and with so many shots (number of shots on the AAP schedule) is relatively new. I was born in 1969 and had 3 DTP, 2 OPV and somewhere I must have had an MMR since it was licensed after I was born. I also had one MMR when I was going to grad school and a DT several years later, both before I questioned vaccination. Now, look at the schedule...5 DTap, 3 HepB, 4 IPV, 2 MMR, 3 HIB, 2 Varicella, 2 HepA, 4 Pneumoccocal, yearly flu shot, Merck trying desparately to get Gardasil on the schedule...that is an awful lot for a child's body. Remember that these vaccines are not based on weight or adjusted age for preemies. So, children are shot up with a lot more these days. Just the sheer number alone should make one think about why we see more developmental delays, autism spectrum disorders, and learning disabilities resulting from the inclusion of ingredients such as aluminum, formaldehyde, thimerisol, etc. These are not things that we would ever eat; why would we alter our bodies with them?

Also, it is near impossible for there to be an unbiased study. Pharma is going to do whatever they have to to tweak the study and make it look favorable for them. Where is an unbiased group going to get funding of that magnitude? You would also need a long period of time to really study it and get data showing long term effects.

I think autism has existed for many, many years without the name or symptoms that we give it today. However, it was just called something else or swept under the general mental illness rug.

 

[hsmamato2]

Haavne't read the whole thread.... but i will, just wanted to toss in my 2 cents...
Op question why multiple shots at once? because it's a cost effective way for the drug companies to get their vaxes into every kid. plain and simple,it has NOTHINg to do with health,but a timetable that MUSt be fulfilled in order for large companies to really rpofit. I read as afr as another poster suggesting that each must do his own research,and I highly agree!
Ask yourself this,(I think OP has) If my kid caught wild measles(non vax induced) would it be likely that at the same time, his body would have to endure the assault of 2-4 other virurlent pathogens being injected at the same time? If my kid caught some other disease, some of which are scarier,and thus more worthy of vax consideration,than others-How would their body deal with it ideally?
Does it sound right that a HUGE dose of chemicals and other dangersous substances are injected into a 10 pound child as into a 50 pound child?
Does it seem logical,for the best health of the child, that injecting chickenpox,polio,diptheria,tetanus,and a host of other unmentionables withing a 4 month period into an otherwise healthy baby is the best thing to do, immune system wise?
My own kids have been selectively vaxed. it's legal,and I believe necessary. We need to ask more questions!
When my sons were born I refused the Hep B vax. Know why? because they inject it into newborns,figuring they''ll catch that segment of the population easily,b/c it's assumed that at 11 or13 years old,these kids will become sexually active,thereby putting themselves at risk.
I chose to take that as it comes in our lives. No way is my lovely baby being injected with pathogens that are completely unnecessary to him at that point in his life. A moms life and med history can factor in here too, but most babies get it for"future" security.
Yes, there just may be some diseases out there that warrant the risk of vaxing, but not all of them.,not by a long shot.
...and then I might get started on vaccination efficacy,but i don't want to do that right now...

 

[hsmamato2]

Although the chicken pox vaccine will not give your child "blanket immunity" from the pox, any case he might get later in life will be mild. This is MUCH safer than full blown pox. Although rare some complications from pox can lead to brain injury.
There has been a lot of immunization bashing in recent years. This has never been proven, and if it were true this risk of this is minimal compared to the risk of long term complications or death from the illnesses for which your children are being vaccinated. In our area we have had a resurgance of pertussis (whooping cough) due to lack of vaccination. Living in Philadelphia I am also aware of the incidences of polio. In the 1990's it was measels.
.

Sorry, getting the chicken pox vax has a whole lot of side effects that I don't want my kids risking. You're correct, the chance of any risks from the actual disease are incredibly,incredibly,rare. I have to weigh the odds on that,and make decisions.
BTW< pertussis is making a comeback EVERYWHERE,in all populations. Why? B/c the vax isn't very effective. it's somewhat effective, but has major gaps. My 2 kids were exposed a couple of years ago. On kid had been vaxed as a baby, the other hadn't. Guess who caught a case? You guessed it! The fully vaxed kid!
And of the families i knew who had the disease, the vax/non vaxed were aboout 50/50.
The risks os immunizing are quite well documented, yet highly doscounted by those who stand to make a profit from the programs. I wonder why?
I do selectively vax, but just heading straight to the docs with a newborn for mass vax cattle call just doesn't work for me, or a lot of other folks anymore.

 

[barkley]

This is out and out scare/tug at your heartstrings tactics. What was the medical background of these children? Do you know for a fact that they were all unvaccinated? Are they immunosuppresed? I truly believe that the immune system is designed to deal with viruses as it is created. The dangers of messing with an intact immune system are more risky to me. This is part of why we do not vax. I refuse to risk the complications of messing with Mother Nature. If the mothers and fathers are catching the disease, what does that say about vaccination? It doesn't work in the long term. Unfortunately, the current recommendations are add another booster. More poison to the system. However, it will either not work, or give limited immunity.

As for rubella, the MMR is notorious for not giving immunity. I am a midwifery student and assistant to a midwife. Rubella immunity is on the standard panel for prenatal bloodwork. I cannot count the number of women who show no immunity to rubella despite being vaccinated more than twice (the current recommendation). Some of them go get the vax after babe is born, and then still show no immunity.

yes i do know they were unvaccinated -i was mandated to provide the form for waiver, document receipt in the case records and utilize this to waive the federal child welfare public assistance vaccination requirement (in an effort to ensure well baby appointments/vaccinations the feds mandated some years ago that public assistance recipients either provide proof of current vaccination records for aided children or sign a waiver stating they had a personal or religious objection that precluded them from doing so).

none of these children had any documented history of suppressed immune systems-they were children whose parents chose to forego vaccinations. regarding the father who caught mumps from his child-he was raised in an environment similiar to his childs wherein routine vaccinations were not administered in the bulk of the childhood population. re. the ruebella cases the mothers by and large had also been raised in the same community and had never been vaccinated.

 

[pigget74]

When my sons were born I refused the Hep B vax. Know why? because they inject it into newborns,figuring they''ll catch that segment of the population easily,b/c it's assumed that at 11 or13 years old,these kids will become sexually active,thereby putting themselves at risk.

I knew this and I to do not think it is right.

 

[noodleknitter]

I have to say that the nurses looked at me like I had two heads when I said no to the Hep b when my kids were born! Of course, I probably looked at them the same way when they brought in the paperwork, assuming that I wanted it!

 

[gabbysmom04]

my kids have had all their shots. I worried about possible side effects, but I am more scared of the thought them getting a sick from something I can protect them from. I feel like everyone has to decide what is best for them and their family. I trust my Doc to know better then I do! I also am glad I live in a world where vacs are around, imagine if we all lived before their were any?

 

[learnhome]

Please do not think that I am a bad parent--we were only going by what the DR's have told us. I do believe in vaccines, but just not all at once--I know they are less traumatized if they get them all at once.

You are NOT a bad parent! Listen, WE are all different. We All Come from different backgrounds! What is acceptable to you, will not be to me...

Vaccinations are a choice. Just like schooling, daycare, breastfeeding, etc.

I would QUESTION EVERYTHING anyone tells me ON MY OWN CHILDREN!!! Doctors are human. AND, their ARE VERY RESPONSIBLE, wonderful physicians, and then their are those who are NOT!! If you want to listen to whatever your doctor tells you, without question, then again, that is your personal choice! However, I feel it is wrong to slam another parent who DOES question! I don't care HOW much schooling a physician has! He/she DID NOT GIVE BIRTH to YOUR child. AND, you SHOULD know YOUR child(ren) better than ANYONE ON THIS EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as vaccinations, again - PERSONAL CHOICE!! I think those parents who choose not to vaccinate, whether it is for religious or philosophical reasons, are making a choice they feel is right for them. I doubt they are out to infect the world type of thing! Remember, their are plenty of people who think daycare is an aweful place for an infant/child! However, plenty of people need it.....

If something doesn't feel or sound right, then I would get a second and or third opinion until I am fully satisfied......

Again, by reading this thread, I just wanted to add a different opinion!
Being a parent is a hard and wonderful job!!!

Chrissy

 

[hucifer]

You are NOT a bad parent! Listen, WE are all different. We All Come from different backgrounds! What is acceptable to you, will not be to me...

Vaccinations are a choice. Just like schooling, daycare, breastfeeding, etc.

I would QUESTION EVERYTHING anyone tells me ON MY OWN CHILDREN!!! Doctors are human. AND, their ARE VERY RESPONSIBLE, wonderful physicians, and then their are those who are NOT!! If you want to listen to whatever your doctor tells you, without question, then again, that is your personal choice! However, I feel it is wrong to slam another parent who DOES question! I don't care HOW much schooling a physician has! He/she DID NOT GIVE BIRTH to YOUR child. AND, you SHOULD know YOUR child(ren) better than ANYONE ON THIS EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as vaccinations, again - PERSONAL CHOICE!! I think those parents who choose not to vaccinate, whether it is for religious or philosophical reasons, are making a choice they feel is right for them. I doubt they are out to infect the world type of thing! Remember, their are plenty of people who think daycare is an aweful place for an infant/child! However, plenty of people need it.....

If something doesn't feel or sound right, then I would get a second and or third opinion until I am fully satisfied......

Again, by reading this thread, I just wanted to add a different opinion!
Being a parent is a hard and wonderful job!!!

Chrissy

Well said!

 

[hsmamato2]

Even though the school sent home a paper all about a Flu Pandemic!! Kind of freaks me out.

it's supposed to freak you out,that's the point. it's called a scare tactic.Funny thing is,the ,more you educate yourself,the less freaked out you get...

 

[liznboys]

Sorry to go a bit OT, but maybe someone on this thread can help me. I'm looking for thimerosal-free flu vaccines for my boys, and am having no luck. The pharmacies around here do not have them, they only do the clinics for adults with the thimerosal-containing one. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[noodleknitter]

Can you check with the pharmaceutical company that makes them? I don't know what it is, but your doctor or pharmacist might be able to help.

 

[Bird-Mom]

it's supposed to freak you out,that's the point. it's called a scare tactic.Funny thing is,the ,more you educate yourself,the less freaked out you get...

 

[amarberry]

I would QUESTION EVERYTHING anyone tells me ON MY OWN CHILDREN!!! Doctors are human. AND, their ARE VERY RESPONSIBLE, wonderful physicians, and then their are those who are NOT!! If you want to listen to whatever your doctor tells you, without question, then again, that is your personal choice! However, I feel it is wrong to slam another parent who DOES question! I don't care HOW much schooling a physician has! He/she DID NOT GIVE BIRTH to YOUR child. AND, you SHOULD know YOUR child(ren) better than ANYONE ON THIS EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I so agree with this statement. I'm sure that it annoys my DD's ped. to death, but I take everything she says with a grain of salt. I certainly respect her education and training, but I feel that it would be irresponsible of me as a parent to not attempt to educate myself to the point where I can ask questions to fully understand and consent to medical matters involving my family.

My DD is selectively vaccinated. I wouldn't define myself as anti-vax, but I also think that we really need to weigh the risks and benefits of the differents vaccines being offered/mandated to our children. I also refuse to have more than 1 vaccine per dr's visit.

A great book to read (if anyone is interested) regarding the vaccine issue is "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave.

 

[emh1129]

I agree, learnhome's quote was a great one. It took me a little while to realize that it is not only OK, but essential to question everything.. it's what I NEED to do to be an advocate for my children.

I could never just go with the status quo without fully comprehending the situation.. medical professionals are people, just like everyone else. Not all of them agree, either.
I know RNs who fully vax and I also know RNs who don't vax at all (I'm in nursing school now, planning to become a nurse-midwife, so it's been interesting to see the whole spectrum).
It's so important to do the research and be confident in whatever decision you come to.

 

[learnhome]

).
It's so important to do the research and be confident in whatever decision you come to.

This is EXACTLY it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!