Urgent Poll - would you still book the Dining Plan if gratuity is not included?

[gina2000]

I don't disagree with the thought that Bicker's valuation is based on his own personal experiences and/or preferences but since they appear to be one man's preferences, I don't see how it really adds concrete knowledge to the discussion. Also, the valuation should be based on what can be ordered on the high and the low end. WDW has to base its projections on best and worst case scenarios...their worst case scenario projections seem off base judging from the change.

We don't usually eat CS and TS in the same day so the DDP probably won't work for us unless we order 3 courses for dinner at a TS restaurant (though with an almost 13 year old male, that may not be true for long).

 

[CarKey]

Why do the servers want it gone? Is it because the tips come to them in the form of a check and the tips are already taxed? Or is it because they have to wait for their money instead of taking it home nightly like a cash tip? I haven't waited tables in many years but I know back then, at the old Red Lobster, most of us would have been thrilled that 18% was guaranteed!

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

From some of the previous posts, it sounds like they were use that as a concession for something else...maybe a higher wage or better benefits.

 

[Gig'em]

I probably wouldn't because it would just be a pain. We have gone with the dining plan and without. The food was good but definitely not needed. It would just be a hassle think about the tip.

As far as the servers, I am surprised they want this. They are guarenteed 15%. I had a meal or two that I would not have tipped that much becuase the service was terrible! And I mean at Disney.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't think the servers want it gone. I don't think leaving everything status quo was an option.

Why do the servers want it gone? Is it because the tips come to them in the form of a check and the tips are already taxed? Or is it because they have to wait for their money instead of taking it home nightly like a cash tip? I haven't waited tables in many years but I know back then, at the old Red Lobster, most of us would have been thrilled that 18% was guaranteed!

 

[bicker]

Have we confirmed yet whether or not this is definitely going into effect next year or would it be sooner?

No, nothing has been confirmed, at all. However, the timing makes it seem most likely that these negotiations would be aimed towards changes to be applicable to the 2008 Dining Plan, which is probably going to be announced next month.

 

[MIDisFan]

...To further the details that others have added to my original post, it does indeed seem gratuity is on the way out as demanded by Disney.

I just wanted to point this out from post #116. OP is stating that this has been initiated by Disney and not the Union. This makes much more sense to me. I can't see any reason for the servers to fight for a guaranteed tip to be taken away.

 

[bicker]

the Dining Plan was about a 14% better value than it cost (my valuation)

I have to admit, I'm scratching my head with your "14% better value than it cost comment".

You must have missed a couple of words in my sentence!

I've posted my financial comparison a few times over the past two years.... here it is again:

http://brianandrobbie.com/DiningPlanEstimatedCostsNoAppyNoDessert.htm

He said it was based on his valuation...I took that to mean what he would order if paying out of pocket.

"Got it in one!"

I feel my family would fall into the same category...we would never order an appetizer, my kids normally go with a pasta dish (which are typically lower than steaks or seafood), we usually just get water to drink, and at most we would order two desserts to share between four people. That would significantly lower the cost of our meal.

And therefore make a higher priced Dining Plan have less value than for people who would normally order all that excess food. Ayup.

 

[msgrimm23]

even thought the tip is included if you have a great server we always give more to them.

 

[just another guy]

Why do the servers want it gone? Is it because the tips come to them in the form of a check and the tips are already taxed? Or is it because they have to wait for their money instead of taking it home nightly like a cash tip? I haven't waited tables in many years but I know back then, at the old Red Lobster, most of us would have been thrilled that 18% was guaranteed!

Of the couple servers I know, NONE of them want it gone. Lets take the example of Ohanas. John Doe from the sticks of KY comes to disney for his families once in a lifetime trip. He is on the dining plan, and makes reservations for Ohanas. Prior to this, for his family of 4, he has never paid more than $50 for a meal. If his kids are 11 and 13, and mom and dad each have a drink, they are looking at $120ish. With the grat included, the server gets like $20ish. Take away the grat and while normally John is use to tossing down $3-5 at the local diner, he really goes all out and leaves his Ohanas server $10. He really means well, but is still screwing over the server. If he only knew that server probably makes more a year than he does.

 

[gina2000]

Bicker, I understand everything you are saying but your cost analysis does not include an appetizer nor does it include a dessert. It's not a reflection of what the DDP patron can order so the 14% is rather irrelevant to the discussion. And that's why I suggest that while you feel the 14% differential (plus 4% for inflation) makes the DDP fairly priced, I suggest that it still is a substatial discount from OOP expenses assuming you use the plan at the maximum ordering capacity regardless of whether you order an inexpensive meal or an expensive meal. What makes this less attractive, of course, is that the more you order, the higher your OOP gratuity will be. However, if you order higher priced meals, you may still feel it's a bargain relative to the non-DDP OOP expense.

Oh, I'm sorry I've never analyzed your cost analysis. My bad. Ayup.

 

[Forevryoung]

I just took out my dining plan spread sheet which I originally used to see which restaurants we should pay out of pocket for. I picked the meal items we would typically order (not the most expensive) and also factored in other types of meals that we would be having that day (so didn't always include appitizer/dessert for both of us).

Originally we would be saving approximately $100. Well that savings just went out the window if we are paying grat. on top of the dining plan. My boyfriend's son works as a waiter, he knows what he goes through and frequently leaves an extremely generous tip.

We liked the all inclusiveness of it and having everything already paid for. I have a feeling I will be talking to the boyfriend about putting all our food money on a prepaid credit card so it feels "all inclusive" and keeping all our restaurant choices... I wont change where I eat or what I order but I will change how I pay for our meal (not the DDP) and how much I order (not appi, entree, dessert).

 

[bicker]

Bicker, I understand everything you are saying but your cost analysis does not include an appetizer nor does it include a dessert. It's not a reflection of what the DDP patron can order so the 14% is rather irrelevant to the discussion.

I think your valuation is irrelevant. So I guess we're even.

Many people struggle with the idea that they're forced to compare the Dining Plan to some ungodly amount of food that they would never order IRL. The only rational comparison IMHO is between the actuals -- what you actually would pay if paying OOP versus what you would pay if paying for the Dining Plan.

 

[gina2000]

Touche!

Truthfully, though, because of the myriad of possibilities in ordering, I feel that your ordering pattern is on the low end of the DDP while mine is on the high end. And while I can understand people not ordering what they won't eat, I still can see what they're ordering as being substantially above the DDP current price with or without the 18% tacked on. And I feel like WDW probably knew that people would order more or more expensive items because it was "all-inclusive". So to me (and obviously not to you), the DDP is a loss leader. The recent adjustments are closing the gap between OOP prices and DDP prices.....though the DDP is still a bargain if you order as we do. (And we're not gluttons....we just concentrate on TS and ignore CS every day for the most part.)

The other question I have is if there is no perceived "bargain" in the DDP, why bother? If you skip a meal, you've lost money. So why not pay OOP and be assured that you can change your plans w/o losing money should you forego a meal?

 

[pjs755]

We missed free dining for our August trip and will be paying for it. Based on what we will likely eat the plan says us somewhere in the $100 range. If we have to pay OOP for the tip we lose three benefits. First, we now become cost conscious. Sure we made a decision already to pay for the plan or not, but now what we order will effect our bottom line.We lose the convenience of the plan. As it stands now we just sign. With this change we would have to sign for the check, and then pay the tip on top of that, removing the sign and go aspect. Now I need more cash, I hate cash. Lastly, the savings involved evaporate. All in all, the plan becomes less of a deal, and likely one I would pass on.

I would prefer to pay a higher price for the plan than to have to tip OOP.

Paul

 

[Nancyg56]

If we have to pay OOP for the tip we lose three benefits. First, we now become cost conscious. Sure we made a decision already to pay for the plan or not, but now what we order will effect our bottom line.We lose the convenience of the plan. As it stands now we just sign. With this change we would have to sign for the check, and then pay the tip on top of that, removing the sign and go aspect. Now I need more cash, I hate cash. Lastly, the savings involved evaporate. All in all, the plan becomes less of a deal, and likely one I would pass on.

I would prefer to pay a higher price for the plan than to have to tip OOP.

Paul

Gosh. you say so well what I chatter endlessly about!

 

[DreaminDisney]

Wow, A lot of people voted on this poll.

I don't think DDP would be worth it if gratuity wasn't included. If service is over the top DH and I have no problem tipping extra though.

OP, I didn't read through all 11 pages but why is this an "Urgent" poll?

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

For us, we would probably just get the DDE card then, since we have AP's. The DDP was a slight savings for us with tax/tip included over DDE. So not including the tip would probably sway it the other way.

 

[DebbieB]

I can't imagine the servers would prefer it gone. I had an elderly aunt who tipped $1 no matter where she was eating and what the bill total was. When I went to dinner with her, I was always slipping more money on the table as we left. People who do not normally eat at expensive restaurants and are not aware of tipping customs are probably not going to pluck down 18% of their inflated disney price meal.

 

[LandBoatRide]

First off, thanks to all for your replies and discussions. Also, thanks to Bicker for your kind replies to me and others. No worries

To clear up some confusion, the removal of gratuity from the DDP is DISNEY'S stance and demand. The server's union has fought this but from all accounts have lost on this front. As others have logically reasoned, no server wants to lose the automatic 18% gratuity. Do know that the servers union 2 years ago secured the increase in auto grat for DDP from 15% to 18%. They DO NOT want to lose this.

This matter is urgent (to recap as requested) because Disney/union contract negotiations are wrapping up and this issue is on the table. The urgency is for more guests to make their voice heard, either directly or indirectly. If the results of this poll are true (admittedly a very very small sample of all Disney guests), then this proposed change in DDP seems foolish for the company as well as the guest, a lose-lose situation. That is just my take however and others will have their own interpretation.

The post that DDE would for the first time be charged auto grat 18% is correct from what I've heard as well, a tidbit I forgot to mention.

It seems to me that the average DDP guest and servers should be on the same page here. Servers dont want to lose the auto grat, just as guests do not want to now pay the entire tip OOP. Guests do not want to lose the ease of checkout (swipe the card), nor do the servers (who prefer to swipe one card and be done, rather than get bogged down swiping a second card for a tip).

One final thought, I am perplexed by posters who say they have no problem paying the tip OOP, as they generally leave extra anyway. Huh??? There is a difference in leaving an extra $5 on top of the $20 gratuity Disney paid for you; now you would be paying the tip 100%, or $25.

I have no new info to give this evening but will update this week.