Update: Segways at WDW

[Expert_Glider]

Um, that's not really correct. The Segway works by how you balance on it. Your body is doing all the fine motor movements of balancing (in your ankles, knees, feet and hips) and the Segway mimics that. For the Segway to work, you must be able to stand perfectly straight then if you lean forward it goes forward, lean back and it goes backward (or slows forward motion), lean right and it goes right, lean left and it goes left.

"lean right and it goes right, lean left and it goes left."

You clearly have never been on a Segway. It doesn't work like this.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Several important points. (Disclaimer - I am disabled to where I need an ECV when in the parks or in a large shopping mall, but in my normal day to day activities I do not need one. Although I can stand and walk short distances with no problem, if I try walking over 200 yards I have severe pain in my lower joints.)

1. The manufacturer of the Segways has taken no action to have the Segway certified as a medical device. Therefore, no matter what the use they legally are not medical devices.

2. The Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) does not allow a company to ask for proof of a disability to give the people equal access. Note that if they give higher access, such as something free which others would have to pay for, they are allowed to ask for proof of a disability.

3. Disney considers allowing use of a wheelchair (pushed or power) or an Electric Convenience Vehicle (ECV) which are certified as medical equipment to be used in the park without limit.

4. Disney will rent out equipment, such as wheelchairs and ECVs, which will allow equal use of the parks for people who state they are disabled, even if the disability is temporary. There is nothing to stop any person who has no disability from using a wheelchair or ECV.

5. If Disney decided, on its own, to consider the Segway a medical device and allow its use in the parks it would then be unable to stop anybody from using a Segway in the parks, no matter the persons disability (or lack thereof) or level of experience.

6. Related to this one of the biggest problems in the park is small children running around. Many people walking around do not notice some of the small children, or even people in wheelchairs or ECVs because they are below their normal eye and scan level. I have had many times in the parks where I have come to a complete stop and people have walked directly into my ECV because they did not see me. Add the extra foot or so to the eye level of a person on a Segway and they are less likely to notice small children in their path.

7. And last, the Disney rental ECVs have a maximum speed of less than 3MPH, most private ECVs (including the off-site rentals) have a maximum speed lower than 5MPH. The maximum speed of a Segway is 12½ MPH.

8. The current use of Segways in WDW fall into two categories; one are people on a tour who are chaperoned and in areas where there are not many people at the time and the other are CMs who, by nature of their job, need to cover a wide range of territory. And the CMs are very well trained (over a week of training) in the use of Segways and are required to drive slowly.

Until such time (if ever) that the Segways are certified as medical devices I feel that Disney is acting responsibly in not permitting them for Guests (other than in controlled situations).

 

[SueM in MN]

I think it is very strange to make a lawsuit about how 'demeaning' it is to use anything other than a Segway. That is tremendously insulting to people like my DD who can't move without a wheelchair and does not have the skills/ability to use a Segway.
I could see bringing a lawsuit mentioning some of the benefits to the user of using a Segway (upright posture, better blood flow). But, to insult a whole group of people with disabilities in my mind is elitist and cruel.

There's only one modification I've seen of a Segway that would make it feasible as a medical device... the placement of a seat above the foot platform. A few amputees have done this and it successfully transfers balance requirements from feet/legs to simpler trunk support. It also turns the device into a two-wheeled wheelchair or ECV.

It doesn't change the fact that Segways move far too fast for normal crowd use. They are akin to bicycles or rollerblades with their speed. Most definitely that is a hazard to pedestrians. The reason powerchairs and ECVs are permitted in crowd use is because they offer better balancing support and top out at speeds equivelant to a fast walk. Segways run.

This is an explanation from page 65 of the Segway Getting Started Manual from the Segway website (Note the page numbers are from the pdf guide):

Understanding Balance Mode
You ride your SegwayPT in Balance Mode. In this mode, the SegwayPT detects when you lean forward or backward, or tilt the LeanSteer Frame left or right, and it moves its Wheels in response to your movements.
The Segway PT also has a Riderless Balance Mode, which allows you to slowly move the SegwayPT when you are not riding it. Step down off the SegwayPT, and walk with your SegwayPT in Riderless Balance Mode to move around obstacles, stairs, or terrain that is difficult to navigate. When the SegwayPT is in Riderless Balance Mode, it is important to hold onto the Handlebar to prevent the Segway PT from moving on its own.
You know your SegwayPT is in Balance Mode or Riderless Balance Mode when the Balance Indicator lights on the forward part of the Console are pulsing or rotating green and your InfoKey Controller displays a happy face.
For information on how to put your SegwayPT into Balance Mode, see “Riding Your SegwayPT” on page 59.

From page 67

When your feet are properly positioned on the Mats, all four Rider Detect sensors depress, allowing the SegwayPT to operate normally in Balance Mode.
If fewer than three Rider Detect sensors are depressed while riding, the Segway PT reduces the top speed limit regardless of whether Beginner Setting is enabled or not. Once your feet are properly positioned again, the SegwayPT regains full performance.
If the Segway PT is moved too quickly while in Balance Mode and none of the Rider Detect Sensors are depressed, the SegwayPT will give the Stick Shake Warning before exiting Balance Mode and transitioning to Standby Mode.
For additional information on Balance Mode and Standby Mode, see “Stick Shake Warning” on page 38.

and from page 139:

Do not place any objects on the Mats. This could cause the SegwayPT to move on its own when in Balance Mode.

and a stronger warning from page 68:

Never place anything on the Mats, except your feet. Doing so could interfere with the Rider Detection system and allow the SegwayPT to travel on its own, risking running into a person or property, and causing injury or damage.

From what I understand the 'seat' adaptations put something on the mats to basically 'fool the Segway into thinking that the Rider Detect settings are depressed. So, they are actually a way to get around the safety feature that keeps the Segway from operating with someone not standing with 3 or more Rider Detect sensors.

There are some reasons that have already been brought up (like where do you put a Segway while the rider is off of it), but I think Disney's main concern is that if they allow Segways to be used, an industry to rent them to guests will quickly develop. These riders may have very little education or experience compared to people who are used to using them.
There are a lot of things that would concern me about guests using them (even guests who normally used them) just from reading the Getting Started Manual. I have gone on the Segway tours at Epcot 4 times, so I am not experienced, but at least have ridden one.
There are some studies on the Segway website where they looked at Segways in pedestrian areas, but there are no studies that I have seen that look at users with very little experience in those areas or look at very busy environments, like WDW.
From page 2:

RISK OF DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY
Whenever you ride the SegwayPT, you risk death or serious injury from loss of control, collisions, and falls. To reduce risk
of injury, you must read and follow all instructions and warnings in the User Materials.

From page 75:

The SegwayPT balances front to back but not side-to-side.
You are responsible for maintaining side-to-side balance by leaning into turns. If you fail to actively maintain this side-to-side balance, the SegwayPT can tip sideways and fall.
Avoid riding across steep slopes.
Lean into turns and lean uphill when riding across gentle slopes.

From the Segway "Getting Started Manual", page 21:

WARNING!
Always wear a helmet when riding. Use an approved bicycle or
skateboard helmet that fits properly with the chin strap in place, and provides protection for the back of your head.
WARNING!
Avoid obstacles and slippery surfaces that could result in a
loss of balance or traction and cause a fall.

I don't know of any mobility devices that tell a person using it to wear a helmet.
From the same manual, page 55

WARNING
While the SegwayPT is designed to keep you upright under a variety of conditions, you can overpower the balancing capability of your SegwayPT by aggressively leaning into and ignoring the Speed Limiter.
The speed at which the Handlebar pushes back depends on a variety of factors including riding style, terrain, payload, whether or not Beginner Setting is selected on the InfoKey Controller, Battery condition, foot positioning, and other factors.
For additional information and conditions that may cause the Speed Limiter to activate, see “Speed Limiter” in the Reference Manual.

From page 58

WARNING!
Never let go of the SegwayPT when it is in Balance Mode
because it will travel some distance on its own, give the Stick Shake Warning, and then cut power to the Wheels. If you let go
of a SegwayPT while in Balance Mode, you risk injury to others and damage to the SegwayPT.

From page 61

When a Safety Shutdown occurs, the SegwayPT automatically reduces its speed, gives the Stick Shake Warning (shakes the Handlebar and makes growling noises), flashes the Balance Indicator lights, emits a warning tone, and the InfoKey Controller displays an unhappy face.
You have approximately 10 seconds from the start of a Safety Shutdown to come to a controlled stop and step off. After 10 seconds, the SegwayPT will immediately shut down when the Wheels reach zero speed.
If a Safety Shutdown occurs:
1. Immediately come to a controlled stop.
2. Carefully step off one foot at a time.

From page 63

Theft detection systems, such as the type used in some libraries and retail stores can interfere with the Segway PT’s ability to balance and/or cause the Segway PT to perform a Safety Shutdown. Do not ride within 5 feet (1.5 meters) of any theft detection system.

from page 126

Safety Tips and Guidelines
The SegwayPT's unique balancing ability and ease of use can lead you to become overconfident. If you exceed the ability of the SegwayPT to balance, such as by riding over obstacles, uneven terrain, slippery surfaces, loose materials, or steep slopes, you can very quickly lose control, leading to collisions, falls, and injury. As with any other transportation device, using a SegwayPT exposes you to risk of injury. You can reduce the risk by following all the instructions and warnings in this Manual, but you cannot eliminate the risk.
Read this Manual and watch the Safety Video.
Do not allow any person to use your SegwayPT unless that person has carefully read this Manual and watched the Safety Video.

 

[KPeveler]

wow, Sue! Thanks for all the great information. You're right - i don't remember any manual I have read for mobility equipment which says it may cause death!!!

And I agree, the motivation behind the lawsuit is very insulting. If they could prove that the Segway is a better mobility device for their needs, that would be one thing, but claiming it is demeaning is not a valid reason to break rules...

 

[davidferleger]

Hello. I'm David Ferleger, and I represent an organization and 94 objectors to the Disney settlement which would perpetuate Disney's ban on the use of Segways at Disney properties (including all the resort properties, such as hotels and non-crowded areas).

The issue in the case is whether people with disabilities have a right to the use of the mobility vehicle which they need in order to have access to Disney properties. Disney is covered by the ADA's access rules.

23 States in the Nation have joined in objecting, and the United States has objected as well. The 23 States and the United States have told the court that the Disney policy violates the ADA.

I am looking forward to reading the posts in this thread and to participating as well.

David

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I am looking forward to reading the posts in this thread and to participating as well.

David

So why did you not start by reading the posts?

You can easily reply to the posts if you wish, but please get off your high horse (or Segway).

 

[KPeveler]

Hello. I'm David Ferleger, and I represent an organization and 94 objectors to the Disney settlement which would perpetuate Disney's ban on the use of Segways at Disney properties (including all the resort properties, such as hotels and non-crowded areas).

The issue in the case is whether people with disabilities have a right to the use of the mobility vehicle which they need in order to have access to Disney properties. Disney is covered by the ADA's access rules.

23 States in the Nation have joined in objecting, and the United States has objected as well. The 23 States and the United States have told the court that the Disney policy violates the ADA.

I am looking forward to reading the posts in this thread and to participating as well.

David

For starters, perhaps you could explain to us how wheelchairs are demeaning? As I remember, the suit is not about what mobility vehicles the people NEED, but the ones they CHOOSE.

 

[BillSears]

But I want to drive my car down Mainstreet in the Magic Kingdom!!!!

It's my prefered mobility vehicle when I want to travel long distances.

 

[minimandymouse]

Hello. I'm David Ferleger, and I represent an organization and 94 objectors to the Disney settlement which would perpetuate Disney's ban on the use of Segways at Disney properties (including all the resort properties, such as hotels and non-crowded areas).

The issue in the case is whether people with disabilities have a right to the use of the mobility vehicle which they need in order to have access to Disney properties. Disney is covered by the ADA's access rules.

23 States in the Nation have joined in objecting, and the United States has objected as well. The 23 States and the United States have told the court that the Disney policy violates the ADA.

I am looking forward to reading the posts in this thread and to participating as well.














David

i think you maybe on here to start trouble
i hope this will be stopped before its even begun
this could, and will, get nasty otherwise
i wont be responding to this thread anymore

 

[livndisney]

i think you maybe on here to start trouble
i hope this will be stopped before its even begun
this could, and will, get nasty otherwise
i wont be responding to this thread anymore

I have to say I agree. I can see this thread taking a bad turn.

When did Segways become appoved mobility devices? If the purpose of the OP's post was to get support for his organization, I think he is looking in the wrong place.

 

[dclfun]

Gee David, we're not on your side and the majority of us on this board are disabled ourselves or have a family member/friend who is. No one "needs" a Segway. If people feel they can't get around the parks without it, then perhaps they shouldn't come. Disney will prevail- there are far too many safety issues that outweigh a few people whining over getting their personal preference. I hope you're enjoying the thread.---Kathy

 

[kaytieeldr]

I did a little Googling after reading "that" post and found something interesting - one of the three original plaintiffs was interviewed after the settlement reported by the original poster. HE feels the settlement is reasonable.

 

[Alexander]

I (very thankfully) do not have any disabilities, and have been on a Segway. It requires a great deal of leg, ankle, and knee control. It requires stamina to be able to ride for any length of time. It is also quite difficult (at least I found it to be) to step onto or off of. The Segway tends to move quite easily on its own and you really have to have good physical control of the machine. I honestly wonder how it is a useful tool for someone who has mobility issues.