Update on kids in pools

[shmoogrrrl]

Originally posted by taswira
That would still provide a huge customer base for them. It would only mean that families with infants and toddlers would have to wait to cruise DCL.

I totally disagree with this! Just on this board alone I have seen many families hat cruise with older children and toddlers and babies of the untrained variety. They have also been all over every cruise that I have been on. They would be cutting a HUGE section of their customer base out.

Like you said though, right now we are arguing something that isn't happening (as far as we know) and I believe isn't likely to happen, lest Disney decide it wants to shoot itself in the foot.

Kathy

 

[DISNEYGATOR]

No swim dipers is purely a safety thing...

"diper droppings" so to speak are big carriers of Ecoli and other bacterias. That could be potentially dangerous if not deadly, especially to small children. My stepsister's daughter (3 years) became violently ill after swimming in a local community pool. Was most likely the pool water had been contaminated by a diper-swimmer. A lot of waterparks/pools etc. have similar rules, and I am sure other cruise lines do as well. It's sometimes an inconvience and a bummer if the un-pottytrained child can't experience the pool, but safety should always come first!

 

[FantasticDisFamily]

Ok gang - PLEASE don't flame me but I picked up this information from several acquaintances after this topic went through a different thread.

1. The reason for no diapers - the cloth kind are ineffective by any stretch of the imagination and besides I don't know anyone that travels with cloth. The disposables of various types are a no no because the gel in them seeps out and messes up the filters. Basically according to the pool expert it simply clogs them up and you really can't clean it out but must replace the filtering system.

2. Why at the parks and not on board ship? In the parks there is much more access to fresh water. The pools can be drained, shocked, and re-opened in a relatively short period of time. Onboard ship there is a limited, large but limited still, quantity of fresh water. Every time there is an accident the pool must be drained and refilled with fresh water.

3. Putting the slide by the Goofy Pool would have meant a major redesign of the ship. Remember this pool is covered at night for a variety of activities. And it is between several food stations and one of the bars. Having the wee ones at one end of the ship, adults at the other, and families and/or older kids in the middle makes logistical sense.

4. I don't think DCL is contemplating a change in its marketing, at least based on this issue. It wouldn't make sense for the reasons Shmoogirl noted. I do think they will need to consider something else - perhaps opening Flounders as a parent accompanied play area. (IF that isn't physically possible don't yell at me - I've never been in it!) I do think it means parents with very young children will be making different choices. While I have two of my own they are definitely out of this stage (12/15) and when they were tiny we really didn't have them in pools much, other than the wading pool in our back yard because we didn't want them swallowing the chemically treated water. Yep, that was our choice and I wouldn't force it upon another.

Ok - the first two items came from my dear friend who has run major hotels for years and studied at the old Disney University before it disappeared, the third came from an engineer, and the fourth is my take as a marketer. So please don't flame just trying to provide some data in the discussion.

Deb

 

[Michelle]

No flames from me, Deb, I agree with you.

I do hope DCL comes up with some kind of splash area for the little ones, but I know that will take time.

 

[taswira]

FantasticDisFamily - I agree with everything you said! When I mentioned a possible change in marketing, it was exactly that - a POSSIBILITY, that's all . . . an option if it came to that. Just as there are lots of infants and toddlers onboard, there are also lots of families with only school age children. I am a p/t TA and certified <O>Disney Specialist</I> (including DCL's Cruise College) and have LOTS of clients with school age children. Believe me, there are <I>plenty</I> who would jump at the chance to fill staterooms vacated by the loss of the infant/toddler market. BUT the bad part IF that happened would be losing those prior cruisers with infants who were loyal to DCL. I'm sure DCL does not want to lose them if there is any way around it that would still enable them to meet the health regs. So we shall see.

 

[jeanie]

I read the last thread on this and now I just have to post.

My neighbor's 4 year old daughter died from swimming in a contaminated pool. it happens more often than you think that a child becomes seriously ill (or worse)from swimming in wading pools. (just as the previous reply stated...)

I think Disney is doing the right thing, at least if an accident happens they can see it and can clean it up quickly. Hiding it with swim diaper is just like swimming in a toilet....ewwwww.....!


It's up to parents to do the right thing but unfortunately they don't. Someone needs to step in (Disney in this case) to enforce the rules so the kids who swim are safe. And this will probably mean an age limit. So get as mad as you want about, but you will be able to hug your kid tomorrow and the day after....

I am sure my neighbor wishes her daughter was swimming in a pool that at least made an attempt to prevent wide spread contamination....

But having said all that, I think that Disney should provide another activity for the little one so that they can be successful at
keeping the pool safe..... someone mentioned the water play area, which squirts water through various nozzles....

 

[cruisnfamily]

Ok, I don't have a little one to whom this would apply but I don't understand what disney is saying her

Is it:

1)Your non-potty trained child can swim in our pools but cannot wear a swim diaper or diaper of any kind

2)Your non-potty trained child cannot swim at all

3)Your non-potty trained child can swim in the pool with a swim diaper if we don't see the diaper

Somebody clarify this! I'm not debating whether this is good, bad, or whatever...I'm just wondering what they are saying here.

 

[DreamsDoComeTrue]

Originally posted by trip
Are babies allowed in whirlpools?

LOL, OK, no adults in diapers either!
But seriously folks ...
Remember at the beginning of that prior thread, that a CM referred to the reason, as being that they wanted to SEE that an accident happened? That way they can take care of it. If a diaper holds in the evidence, but still lets out bacteria, than the water is dangerous for who knows how long. Maybe they aren't banning non potty trained kids. They just don't want the evidence of a "poop fairy visit" to be hidden from them. It's the diapers that hide the evidence that are banned. Yea, seeing a floater is totally grose, but the pool will get closed and cleaned right away, as it should be.

 

[DreamsDoComeTrue]

They want us to play 'Hidden Mickey's', not 'Hidden Pooh's' !!!

 

[DISNEYGATOR]

I think Dreams hits the nail on the head... swim dipers hidethe "poohs" but the the bacteria get free.. combine that with an infant swimmer splashing around, mouth wide open and a developing and vulnerable immune system, not a good combo.

 

[SueEllen]

Whew, where to start?

Okay, I'll just say this: It is IMPOSSIBLE for Disney to be able to tell which child is potty trained and which is not. I worked in a daycare for several years. We had 6 year olds that were in school and still NOT potty trained (YUCK!) Therefore, I don't see a way to decide who CAN get into the pool, and who cannot. Swim diapers could be an indicator that the child isn't potty trained, but not necessarily true. Some parents may put them on children as "insurance". I understand about the regular disposable diapers in the pool--the gel could possibly be a problem with a pool filter.

Unless Disney PROHIBITS all children under the age of say 5, this will still be an issue. How do you make that determination?

Sue Ellen

 

[DreamsDoComeTrue]

Yep, I'm betting that they are NOT banning the kids. Just the diapers that hide the evidence.

 

[4nana]

This makes me very sad....
I do understand all the health reasons behind this. Let's be honest here ~ this will never fly w/o some type of compensation for our youngest Disney fans/parents. Their USPHS statement leads to more questions. IMO this sends a message that Disney is trying to 'Cover Their A'. It says 'a child cannot wear a diaper', it does not mention one thing about 'being potty trained'. It is left for one to assume, which leads me to believe it is definitley a 'don't ask, don't tell'. Pleeeeeze!!
What are 500+ babies/toddlers going to do while the parents take their siblings to the pool....pay $6 hr at Flounders? Not everyone is bringing a Nana.

 

[jellymoon]

I worked in a daycare for several years. We had 6 year olds that were in school and still NOT potty trained (YUCK!)

Some children have disabilities which make it impossible to be potty trained.

 

[DISNEYGATOR]

I think its very simple and makes perfect sense why there is a no diaper policy...

A) You have one child, in a diaper--who messes in the diaper...the diaper holds all the mess in, hiding it from cast members, and cautious parents who's kids are swimming in the same water. Millions and millions of bacteria leak out. A happy, rambunctious child happens to swallow some of that water, even just a table spoon, and also swallows hundreds of thousands of bacteria. No-one senses a thing until a few days later when that child becomes terribly ill. All because of a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality of another pool visitor.

or you have..

B) same age child, but one that doesn't wear a diaper. This child, being a child has an accident. But this time, cast members can be aware of the situation immediately and go through the proper procedures to secure the pools safety. Cautious parents can also see, and take there children out of the pool until it is cleaned up.

I doubt Disney is saying, non-potty trained can't swim... just that no diapers are in the pool. Also, diapers clog the pool and wouldn't it be really bad if the pool clogged up and was broken and then no-one could use it? So infants and toddlers can't wear diapers? Doesn't mean they can't swim...

 

[jellymoon]

Okay, here is something I don't understand about the swim diaper thing. Maybe I'm just making odd assumptions about what responsible people would or wouldn't do.

I would imagine those wearing swim diapers aren't able to swim independently. Therefore, they are being held by a responsible adult type while in the pool. Would the responsible adult type know if a child was having a BM and immediately remove the child from the pool before anything was, um, expelled even from the body? I've had four kids, and you can always tell when they are about to do it.

Mabye my kids are weird. But in that case, wouldn't you notice pretty quick as soon as it started expelling, and again leave the pool immediately AND let a CM know about the accident? I certainly would!!!

I guess my confusion is it seems like there are responsible ways to let non-potty trained kids swim. I would NEVER allow my kids to poop in a pool. I am very concientious and would know if they were doing that. I like their non-disposable swim diapers for a couple reasons. Primarily, I have girls and I feel like their "girl parts" are protected a little better from all the chemicals with that extra, waterproof layer under there. I also think the swim diaper covers in a better way so that the crotch of the swimsuit doesn't ride up and irritate them there. One of my girls has very sensitive "girl parts"--- no bubble bath, always has to wear underwear that are too big, etc.

Trust me-- I too am worried about the germs that happen in pools and worry about my one daughter who does try to "drink". We have a neighbor girl who nearly died after accidentally swallowing water in a swimming pool in Mexico. She got ecoli, had kidney failure, the whole shebang. I guess I just trust people to be responsible with their kids and remove them before they poop, or immediately after they start pooping if they didn't notice before they started. And, of course, no matter how embarrassed they may be, to alert the CM.

The fact is that there are indeed kids that get ecoli swimming. There's also kids that get ecoli from attending county fairs, eating at fast food restarants, etc. Life is full of danger and each day we take calculated risks. The kids who get terriby ill from swimming in pools are a rarity. DCL has been in business for about 5 years now and I haven't heard of an issue like this yet.

I think there should be strict rules about the chemical maintenance and filtration systems in these pools. I think it is well worth the inconvenience of the pools being closed if they need to be drained for a floater (or an invisible floater). But, I also think, banning non-potty trained kids is going over the top. It is kinda like in our state new regulations which say you can't send home baked treats to school for your kids' birthday or the bake sale. There's a lot that is given up for such a minimal risk.

 

[SueEllen]

Some children have disabilities which make it impossible to be potty trained.

Yes, but this was not the case with the 6 y/o I was referring to. He just WOULDN'T use the toilet for #2, and would go in his pants every single day. I have also heard of others at 4 and 5 who still would not do #2 on the potty.

I feel empathy for those with disabilities. Another example of accidents that could happen.

Interesting point DisneyGator. I wonder just exactly what the policy means (no swim diaper so that if an accident happens it can be cleaned immediately, or no non-potty trained children)

Sue Ellen

 

[jeanie]

DISNEYGATOR, I agree with you....i don't think that they are banning anyone, just diapers. And yes ecoli is alot of places but I won't feed my kids uncooked meat and I wouldn't let my kids swim in wading pools. I don't see what the big deal is about NOT wearing diapers (or swim diapers) That way everyone would know immediately and could remove their kids right away.

Jellymoon, your kids are not the problem, it's the other kids. Do you really believe that everyone is a observant and as truthful as you are? How many mothers do you think, leave the pool area after they realize an accident has happen and tell no one because they are embarrassed. And they also close the pool a few times a day for the few accidents that they do find out about... If the crew is making fun of the pool then you know it must be pretty bad....

 

[Tluvs2talk]

My Sister and I took My nephews age 4 and age 2 to a waterpark here in Charleston. The 2 year old got sick and threw up in the kiddie section. I had to inform a lifeguard, who in-turn blew her whistle to order everyone out. They had to clean up the puke, and add chemicals, then test for bacteria. This takes at least 30 minutes. You should have heard the adults who were carrying on about the pool having to be closed. I was standing next to several who said to their child " You can thank the person who was stupid enough to bring a sick child to the pool". I went calmly over to her and said " I'm sorry, that would be my Nephew who threw up in the up in the pool, he was fine when we brought him it must be the heat". She smiled so sweetly and said No problem, these kids are just so impatient. My point is bodily functions in the pool happen when you least expect it. Babies are not always predictable. I think most people leave and don't say anything out of embarrasment, this is where the problems really start.

 

[taswira]

Of course, this was PRIOR to DCL's new policy. But . . .

<I>"More and more cruise ships have splash pools for infants and toddlers. However, <B>for sanitation reasons, many of them won't allow non-potty-trained children in them even if they are wearing swim diapers</B>. While Disney allows children with swim diapers in the splash pool and larger pool, Costa allows non-potty-trained children with swim diapers only in the splash pools. <B>Carnival, Princess, NCL and Royal Caribbean do not allow swim-diapered infants in any pools, including splash pools.</B> One parent on the CruiseMates.com family message board said she brought along a small inflatable kiddy pool for her infant on their last cruise.</I>"