Universal vs. Disney

So you don't think the mine train technology won't be good? And what about Avatarland and what that might hold? Disney imagineering is ten times better than universals engineers. Disney tells a story with there rides. Universal is all about thrills. Disney makes you feel like your inside the magic universal not as much. And what might the future hold in DHS, cars, or Star Wars we might see something amazing come with Star Wars and I strongly believe a new Star Wars land or just a ride will be coming very soon.

disney lover at heart

No offense, but I think you are letting your love for Disney blind you to the things Uni has to offer. I would hold WWoHP up against any Disney land/attraction for quality and immersivness of the experience, and plenty of thier rides tell stories. Uni is definitly NOT all about thrills. I am not a big fan of high thrill rides, don't ride any coaster more intense the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, yet I find plenty to enjoy at Uni. Remember, despite what some people say, it is OK to like both Disney and Uni. :)

Disney definitly has some opportunities coming up to create some great attractions, but as DCToTall says, management has to loosen up the purse string and let Imagineering do what they are capable of. I personally love the Avatar idea, I think it has a ton of potential if done right.
 
No offense, but I think you are letting your love for Disney blind you to the things Uni has to offer. I would hold WWoHP up against any Disney land/attraction for quality and immersivness of the experience, and plenty of thier rides tell stories. Uni is definitly NOT all about thrills. I am not a big fan of high thrill rides, don't ride any coaster more intense the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, yet I find plenty to enjoy at Uni. Remember, despite what some people say, it is OK to like both Disney and Uni. :)

Disney definitly has some opportunities coming up to create some great attractions, but as DCToTall says, management has to loosen up the purse string and let Imagineering do what they are capable of. I personally love the Avatar idea, I think it has a ton of potential if done right.

I see what your saying but to me I'm not into Harry potter I read the first three books started the fourth and found i was bored. The movies were okay nothing spectacular to get crazy about. One thing I will add as stated in this thread already disney and universal both went at it to get the Harry potter rights. Disney wanted to create something large and exciting. Universal said we'll keep it small and simple. So thats why JK Rowling went with universal. Disney wanted to create something bigger to stop such huge crowds in such a small area. lots of people on this thread have also said it becomes very very crowded disney knew that was going to happen so they wanted to do more. maybe now with the an expansion that could help, but I'm still not going to go because of the expansion. I've never went to Harry potter because I'm not interested in it. But I think new fantasyland and Carsland were big things that disney has done right over the past few years. To me universal doesn't fill my needs/wants. I'm also excited to see what Avatarland could possibly have to offer and hopefully thats why its taking a bit longer than other things.

disney lover at heart
 
I see what your saying but to me I'm not into Harry potter I read the first three books started the fourth and found i was bored. The movies were okay nothing spectacular to get crazy about. One thing I will add as stated in this thread already disney and universal both went at it to get the Harry potter rights. Disney wanted to create something large and exciting. Universal said we'll keep it small and simple. So thats why JK Rowling went with universal. Disney wanted to create something bigger to stop such huge crowds in such a small area. lots of people on this thread have also said it becomes very very crowded disney knew that was going to happen so they wanted to do more. maybe now with the an expansion that could help, but I'm still not going to go because of the expansion. I've never went to Harry potter because I'm not interested in it. But I think new fantasyland and Carsland were big things that disney has done right over the past few years. To me universal doesn't fill my needs/wants. I'm also excited to see what Avatarland could possibly have to offer and hopefully thats why its taking a bit longer than other things.

disney lover at heart


FWIW....

Avatar isn't really taking that much longer when you look at the Disney timeline.

New Fantasyland was officially announced back in 2009, and the rumors and blue sky had been swirling for some time before that. It's still not done being constructed 4 years later.

Disney just announced the DEAL with Cameron for the Avatar rights last year. It's only been a year, and the deal was such a closely guarded secret and came as such a surprise, that even Imagineering didn't have much lead time on the official announcement to start the blue sky.

So we are about a year in since the Avatar Announcement, and we've seen a few early signs of construction started (specifically FoTLK's new theater construction, which they could easily start before having the rest of the plans finalized since it was obvious that CMM was going away to make way for the new attractions). This works perfectly fine with Disney's established timeline on any major projects and is nothing out of the ordinary.



If anything though, It's Universal's major building and expansion streak that is making the Disney timeline look so sad. Universal has just been knocking out the new experiences like clockwork lately, which doesn't make Disney's 4/5 years to open one small new section look any better. They also didn't help matters any with the completely unprecedented speedy opening of Transformers. They didn't put up the walls to start demolition of the the old structure in that spot until July of last year, and 12months later we have a complete new building and attraction in that location open to the public.
 
For me(and this is just my opinion...different strokes for different folks) it was very tacky. I thought I would love the Cars and LM themes, but they were so loud and in your face..too much of a good thing is no good. It looked like they repainted a cheap motel and put up a bunch of big plastic Disney characters all over the place. I can't speak for what the room quality is as we didn't sleep in it. When I went into the Poly and even POR(which I said I didn't love) the décor is subtle and upscale. I looked into the family suites at AOA and no way I would pay to stay 3 to 400 a night. Just not worth it for what you get. It was crowded and LOUD! People running around like crazy people...didn't see this once at any of the resorts we went to. I thought POR was a little dirty (This was a big surprise because online I really liked that resort...so maybe I had built it up in my head or maybe just an off day. There the bathroom and dinning area was a mess), but wouldn't say I wouldn't ever stay there. AOA I can say I wouldn't ever pay to stay there after seeing it.

I agree, it is horses for courses. Personally speaking, I would never stay at a value because they are too busy and brash for me, but for others that is exactly what they want.

Do I ever think Universal/IOA will surpass WDW...probably not, but they certainly are quickly chinking away at their profits and making people want to leave their park to spend a couple of days over there.

What makes you think that Universal are chinking away at Disney profits? I'm just curious, because the financials do not support that at all. Disney has reported record profits for 2012 and the most recent Q2 results were huge for the Disney. I don't see Universal making any impact in terms of profit. Both companies are showing growth.

I think it's very easy to break the debate down to a few key things... i.e. WWOHP or Fantasyland Expansion but that doesn't really deal with the overall picture because largely those things are about personal taste. You couldn't pay me enough money to spend my time at WWOHP because it just doesn't interest me in the slightest. Someone else might say the same about attractions at Disney. It's just personal preference.

The bigger picture is about where people spend their time and their dollars and Disney win hands down. They simply offer a more rounded experience. If you want to swim with Dolphins, Disney offers it. If you want to play golf, Disney offers it. If you want to go to a spa, Disney offers it. If you want water parks, Disney offers it -- and so on and so forth. Add to that a fast pass system that is free to use rather than almost doubling your ticket price for an express pass. Add to that no need to drive. Add to that various levels of accommodation for all budgets. More parks, more attractions, more shopping experiences, free dining periods etc. It's an all inclusive experience that Universal just can't replicate.

The debate is bigger than Disney haven't built much lately. The fact that they are investing in intellectual property and changes to infrastructure through My Magic +, will see them well for decades to come. In addition, guests have reported signs and CM have hinted also that they have recently broken ground for the start of the Avatar build. There is a lot in the pipeline which they may not have put out in the public domain too.

Disney have sat on their purses in terms of attractions but they have made some monumental franchise purchases. Star Wars is on it's way, as is Cars land. New patents are also being reported for ride technology that has never been seen before.

Universal are doing OK, they're doing what they have done for many years, rehash and add on to existing attractions. But in the longer term, they're going to struggle unless they come up with something fresh, new and exciting . They also need to expand what they offer.
 

I see what your saying but to me I'm not into Harry potter I read the first three books started the fourth and found i was bored. The movies were okay nothing spectacular to get crazy about. One thing I will add as stated in this thread already disney and universal both went at it to get the Harry potter rights. Disney wanted to create something large and exciting. Universal said we'll keep it small and simple. So thats why JK Rowling went with universal. Disney wanted to create something bigger to stop such huge crowds in such a small area. lots of people on this thread have also said it becomes very very crowded disney knew that was going to happen so they wanted to do more. maybe now with the an expansion that could help, but I'm still not going to go because of the expansion. I've never went to Harry potter because I'm not interested in it. But I think new fantasyland and Carsland were big things that disney has done right over the past few years. To me universal doesn't fill my needs/wants. I'm also excited to see what Avatarland could possibly have to offer and hopefully thats why its taking a bit longer than other things.

disney lover at heart

Disney passed on Potter because JK wanted far to much creative control for their tastes, Uni was willing to give JK that control and she insisted on the realistically small shops. Either way, the space issue will be corrected with the opening of Phase 2.
 
universal rides, technology wise are better. Spiderman, Simpson's, harry potter, their amazing! universal rides seem to have a much shorter lifespan. since our 1st visit so many rides are different and the old classics like king Kong, jaws, back to the future have gone. this, in my view is a shame. yes theres always something new to see and convince people to visit but a lot of people like the classics. apart from the new harry potter bit I don't feel drawn in by the theming, I know I'm in a theme park.

I haven't been to Orlando in years, I'm planning a trip soon (hopefully) I'm glad to know the new rides are fun, but I'm so sad to know all those old rides are gone!!! I was looking forward to sharing those childhood favorites with my DH who has never been. I wish they would have expanded instead of replacing.

I'd like to see Disney counter HP by reviving the Sword and the Stone property and building a really awesome, immersive magical world of Merlin. I think that's a story rich with possibility for a themed land and multiple rides, that Disney could maintain complete control of.
 
Who's winning, Disney or Universal?

The answer is: Yes!

Universal is doing well and I am glad to see some awesome new rides and Harry Potter land. I want to visit Universal in LA, too.

I think Disney is on the verge of some great new updates, but Disney fans need not worry. Disney is light years ahead of all the competition in many areas. The key measure is attendance and Disney has all the top attended parks by far.

Actually, I think both are winning by Universal making some good rides and experiences. Competition is healthy. As a Disney fan I hope Universal continues to prosper and expand. More people from around the world will make Central Florida a destination. That being said, I doubt they would add a third park anytime soon. They need to do more with what they have. There resorts are terribly expensive, too. No budget options yet

Yep! :thumbsup2

Universal upping their game is certainly great for Universal and for those of us who visit the theme parks. Not only does it create new attractions to experience, but it certainly will inspire Disney to react and invest more in WDW than they have been doing the last decade.

Disney is probably going to lose some park days to Universal in the near future. People are going to spend 1-3 days that they previously would have used at WDW to experience USF/IOA. WDW will likely also be losing hotel stays and merchandise/food sales and that's what will really hurt more than ticket revenue.

Ironically, however, the "rising tide lifts all ships" impact will also benefit WDW when people make a trip to go down to Orlando to experience Potter or Transformers or Kong, etc. and will likely spend some days at WDW as well. I doubt this will make up for their losses however.

I think the recent leaks from Universal are going to have a positive impact on Disney because it will force their hand to fast track construction in the parks rather than use their typically slow deliberate builds to spread out the costs. I think we'll see some Star Wars stuff come out sooner rather than later as the first wave, as well as Avatar, Cars and some other properties (Monsters, Inc?). And hopefully some new stuff in Epcot, like updating Soarin' and replacing EO.
 
Another factor in this is that Disney are very much focusing on catering to the growth markets from outside of the US. Typically, people in the US stay for shorter periods than those who come from Europe and South America. When we lived in Michigan, our stays were 6-8 days, now we live in the UK, our stays are a minimum of 14 days which is very typical from the UK market.

The UK and Brazil are the Disney's biggest growth markets (as stated in the Disney Q2 conference call). The deals they offer to the UK are significantly better than the deals they offer in the US. By "giving away" the dining plan with the purchase of 14 day Ultimate tickets, they guarantee that they get the UK visitors to a) buy 14 day tickets and b) eat almost all of their meals at Disney. They also give away $200 gift cards for spending money too.

A lot of UK guests don't want to drive either, so with ME, an on-site stay, tickets for the whole 14 days and meals for the whole 14 days, it makes going to Universal less appealing for some people. I'm sure they are doing something similar with the Brazil market too (hence all the tour groups!)

I genuinely don't see Universal hurting Disney at all. I agree with the points made about Disney not putting enough into the parks, but I don't think it is making any difference to them in the grand scheme of things. In all honesty, the international markets are much bigger earners for Disney and while they have such a vice grip on the UK market, they'll never be financially hurt by Universal.
 
I think Harry Potter land is fading. I spent maybe 10 minutes exploring that section, only really big Harry Potter fans will continue to visit in droves, and I don't think it has a broad enough appeal. However, Disney could fall into the same trap will Avatarland, unless it is done properly.
I think Harrys bigger problem is that people wont stand in line for 30 minutes to get a "Wand fitting". We also need to look at how movie specific lands have faired over the years. Don't forget that this Harry Potterland expansion is going in Amintyville- AKA Jaws land. It had one ride, but met its demise for a new powerhouse. Harry potter land has one big ticket ride, and a few smaller rides, and some "fan only" experiences. Perhaps they can make this expansion more accessible, but Im not so sure.

To be successful, Avatar needs to appeal to more than just Avatar fans.
Right now, Carsland in DL seems to be successful, but after the novelty wears off, will it still draw huge crowds? Again, it has one big ride, and some small rides with queue issues.
 
We were at hpland in January and it was packed. I don't think it is fading at all.

I never read it watched the movies but my kids wanted to go. Enjoyed it:). But I like both parks. I loved the original universal, and dl in the 70's so I have a soft spot for both.
 
I think Harry Potter land is fading. I spent maybe 10 minutes exploring that section, only really big Harry Potter fans will continue to visit in droves, and I don't think it has a broad enough appeal. However, Disney could fall into the same trap will Avatarland, unless it is done properly.
I think Harrys bigger problem is that people wont stand in line for 30 minutes to get a "Wand fitting". We also need to look at how movie specific lands have faired over the years. Don't forget that this Harry Potterland expansion is going in Amintyville- AKA Jaws land. It had one ride, but met its demise for a new powerhouse. Harry potter land has one big ticket ride, and a few smaller rides, and some "fan only" experiences. Perhaps they can make this expansion more accessible, but Im not so sure.

To be successful, Avatar needs to appeal to more than just Avatar fans.
Right now, Carsland in DL seems to be successful, but after the novelty wears off, will it still draw huge crowds? Again, it has one big ride, and some small rides with queue issues.

Cars land is and will be successful because it has 3 things

Wow factor when u first walk in
Great e ticket
Unique themeing (u know what you re looking at)

Same for HP if avatar has those things (like mysterious island) it will be very successful
 
I think Harry Potter land is fading. I spent maybe 10 minutes exploring that section, only really big Harry Potter fans will continue to visit in droves, and I don't think it has a broad enough appeal. However, Disney could fall into the same trap will Avatarland, unless it is done properly.
I think Harrys bigger problem is that people wont stand in line for 30 minutes to get a "Wand fitting". We also need to look at how movie specific lands have faired over the years. Don't forget that this Harry Potterland expansion is going in Amintyville- AKA Jaws land. It had one ride, but met its demise for a new powerhouse. Harry potter land has one big ticket ride, and a few smaller rides, and some "fan only" experiences. Perhaps they can make this expansion more accessible, but Im not so sure.

To be successful, Avatar needs to appeal to more than just Avatar fans.
Right now, Carsland in DL seems to be successful, but after the novelty wears off, will it still draw huge crowds? Again, it has one big ride, and some small rides with queue issues.

I agree with you but I don't see Harry potter fading, I've never been nor will I ever go to Harry potter but its still always packed. Cars will be successful for a long time I can see it and that's why the rumors continue to thrive of it coming to Orlando. It puts you right in the movie its literally a life size replica of radiator springs and thats amazing. It will continue for years to come.

disney lover at heart
 
I agree with you but I don't see Harry potter fading, I've never been nor will I ever go to Harry potter but its still always packed. Cars will be successful for a long time I can see it and that's why the rumors continue to thrive of it coming to Orlando. It puts you right in the movie its literally a life size replica of radiator springs and thats amazing. It will continue for years to come.

disney lover at heart

I dont see HP fading at all...when you walk into hogemeade with the HP music playing im in awe..i ve been there 3 times and am blown away every time...its a quality product and will continue to be huge for a long time, quality matters most
 
I think Harry Potter land is fading. I spent maybe 10 minutes exploring that section, only really big Harry Potter fans will continue to visit in droves, and I don't think it has a broad enough appeal. However, Disney could fall into the same trap will Avatarland, unless it is done properly.
I think Harrys bigger problem is that people wont stand in line for 30 minutes to get a "Wand fitting". We also need to look at how movie specific lands have faired over the years. Don't forget that this Harry Potterland expansion is going in Amintyville- AKA Jaws land. It had one ride, but met its demise for a new powerhouse. Harry potter land has one big ticket ride, and a few smaller rides, and some "fan only" experiences. Perhaps they can make this expansion more accessible, but Im not so sure.

To be successful, Avatar needs to appeal to more than just Avatar fans.
Right now, Carsland in DL seems to be successful, but after the novelty wears off, will it still draw huge crowds? Again, it has one big ride, and some small rides with queue issues.


I think you are underestimating the staying power of Harry Potter. The books were popular before the movies started being made. There is almost an entire generation of people who grew up with the franchise, and even though it's now "done", that same generation is now starting to have kids of their own who they are introducing to the world of Harry Potter thru the books and movies. In many ways, This falls into the same "hand-me-down" love of the franchise as Disney has benefitted from for years. (and quite honestly, Harry Potter emerged during Disney's 'dark period' when Disney proper didn't really produce much new quality material.... which I think honestly ties into their recent buying spree of franchises and houses such as Pixar, Lucas, and Marvel). So Harry Potter will be around for awhile. It also doesn't hurt that Universal has created some amazing visuals and attractions within their Harry potter sections that have a good chance of standing on their own without needing a good love and understanding of the source material. (See: Splash Mountain / Twilight Zone Tower of Terror)



As for the Amity and the Jaws attraction being an example of older movies not standing the test of time.... I'm not sure it's a fair assessment of the situation. First off.... Jaws and the Amity area have been there since opening day, so that was about 20years in operation. It was also over a decade between the park open and the film the attraction and area was based on.... so there was quite some staying power. In fact, with Jaws closure, ET is the only opening day attraction still open at the park. (Earthquake was rethemed to Disaster, and the Horror Makeup show has gone thru some major changes).

There are also good reasons for Universal to decide to retire this section for the expansion that had nothing to do with the theme.

1. Jaws was an expensive and complicated attraction to operate. The fire effects and "on stage" vehicle operators were both expensive and made this attraction one of the more expensive "per run" of any attraction at the property.

2. Water attractions are always much more complicated when it comes to maintenance. Besides just the wear and tear on the visuals (wearing away paints, etc), it also could reak havoc on show effects like the moving sharks, the ride vehicles, and set pieces.

3. It was a very inefficient use of space. The lagoon took up a large part of the areas footprint. With the need for large expansion, If you look at the footprint of both parks, This was probably the plot which could be most "improved" (On top of the added perk of spreading out the Harry potter crowds between both parks). In the space which Universal had a single aging and expensive attraction, some midway games and sidewalk vendors, and a food vendor (Nathan's hotdogs)... they are going to adding a e-ticket attraction, another transportation/d-ticket type attraction, multiple shops and shows, and a new restaurant.
 
I just don't understand why people would shell out more money for lower quality accommodation that are only 1 mile closer to MK than some really nice off site options. I know they are a little closer to AK and HS, but it is still only a mile closer to Epcot than off site.


Because with the Magical Express, these people get FREE transportation to their resort from MCO...not to mention their luggage goes straight to their resort! Once onsite, they get FREE transportation to 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and DTD from their resort.

This is why someone would choose a Value over a hotel a mile away. Feel free to add up the price of a rental car and parking if you're going to stay offsite, then compare.
 
Yep! :thumbsup2

Disney is probably going to lose some park days to Universal in the near future. People are going to spend 1-3 days that they previously would have used at WDW to experience USF/IOA. WDW will likely also be losing hotel stays and merchandise/food sales and that's what will really hurt more than ticket revenue.

Aha...hence the Magic Your Way ticket. Notice that it becomes significantly cheaper to add a 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th day on to the ticket? Because Disney wants you to stay on property once you get there. Why would someone pay $360 for a 4 day PH ticket and then pay an additional $175 for a 3 day Universal ticket? Plus transportation to Universal from WDW, plus paying to get to the airport when you're done. And you need to change hotels...where will you stay at Universal? The onsite hotels are $300+ a night.

OR..the same person ca pay an additional $40 for an extra three days at WDW and that's it. No transportation costs, no airport shuttle fees, no new hotel.

Funny...I'm headed to WDW in a few weeks and I'm worried about it being too crowded. How can WDW be simultaneously "too crowded" and "in trouble" or "losing ground to Universal" or "in need of updates," etc... ??
 
Aha...hence the Magic Your Way ticket. Notice that it becomes significantly cheaper to add a 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th day on to the ticket? Because Disney wants you to stay on property once you get there. Why would someone pay $360 for a 4 day PH ticket and then pay an additional $175 for a 3 day Universal ticket? Plus transportation to Universal from WDW, plus paying to get to the airport when you're done. And you need to change hotels...where will you stay at Universal? The onsite hotels are $300+ a night.

OR..the same person ca pay an additional $40 for an extra three days at WDW and that's it. No transportation costs, no airport shuttle fees, no new hotel.

Funny...I'm headed to WDW in a few weeks and I'm worried about it being too crowded. How can WDW be simultaneously "too crowded" and "in trouble" or "losing ground to Universal" or "in need of updates," etc... ??

To add to that Disney Logic... The whole idea behind the My Magic + stuff is to try and lock people down even more into their onsite Disney Vacation and keep them from being tempted to venture off-property once they get to Orlando and start getting exposed to brochures and advertising for other area attractions.


Oh... and For the Record... You really seem to have an incomplete idea of the non-Disney onsite lodging options around the area.

True, Universal's current 3 onsite hotels are priced in the $300/night range during higher demand times of year. BUT.... all 3 current onsite hotels are true Deluxe level accommodations (Iow's, higher quality hotels than Disney Deluxe), for about what Disney will charge for a Moderate at that same time of year. You also get the unlimited Express and early entry perks with that stay, which during those same peak times can be priceless in value. The new Cabana Bay pricing however looks to be in the $150/night range, or about what Disney charges for a Value. Perks and the hotel itself look to be more akin to a Disney Moderate.


There are also a lot of people who currently will do a 1-day trip to the Universal Resort and simply take MEARS transportation from their onsite Disney resort for a day-trip to Universal. No need to swap hotels or worry about airport transportation afterwards.
 
I don't know if it is worth the premium price to get the 2bdrm suites and with 3 kids that is the smallest amount of rooms I would do.

I have three words for you: Disney Vacation Club.
 
Oh... and For the Record... You really seem to have an incomplete idea of the non-Disney onsite lodging options around the area.
The options range from No-tell Motel to the Ritz-Carlton. What am I missing? The farther away you are from MK, the bigger the home and the cheaper the rent.

True, Universal's current 3 onsite hotels are priced in the $300/night range during higher demand times of year. BUT.... all 3 current onsite hotels are true Deluxe level accommodations (Iow's, higher quality hotels than Disney Deluxe), for about what Disney will charge for a Moderate at that same time of year. You also get the unlimited Express and early entry perks with that stay, which during those same peak times can be priceless in value. The new Cabana Bay pricing however looks to be in the $150/night range, or about what Disney charges for a Value. Perks and the hotel itself look to be more akin to a Disney Moderate.
So you can stay at a Deluxe resort and get the same amenities that WDW offers their guests (FastPass, EMH)? Ok..... And I'm not going to argue about what "Deluxe" means to people. I, for one, do NOT care about the quality of the robe in the room. I care about theming. Poly will always be the most special to me for that reason. And proximity to MK....

There are also a lot of people who currently will do a 1-day trip to the Universal Resort and simply take MEARS transportation from their onsite Disney resort for a day-trip to Universal. No need to swap hotels or worry about airport transportation afterwards.

But they'll need to worry about paying for that 1-day both park ticket for $138 PLUS the cost of transportation!! W/ Unlimited Express the ticket is $235. OR....just pay $40 total and get three more days of WDW tickets.

Who on earth is going to pay $235 plus the cost of transportation to go to Universal/IoA for one day?! WDW 1-day PH is $137, but with FP included.

Wow, I'm really never going to Universal, even if I can afford it!
 
We hope to spend two days at Universal Studios on our next trip. I do not want to take those two days out of Disney, so we will probably only do it if we can afford to add onto the trip. I do think it's worth saving up for though, I'm excited about visiting universal.

Here's an interesting article about themepark attendance rates over the last few years. It does seem like the initial bump Universal got from Harry Potter is slowing down

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76163748/
 












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