Universal is taking advantage of Disney's weak spot

[MichiganDVC]

From your posts (here and in other threads) It sounds like you just have problems with people DISing Disney and/or comparing it with anything else. If you have problems staying away from these threads it really is YOU and not those of us posting in them.

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

 

[TaylorsDad]

Yes, many posts and many hours ago, it was already suggested that I do not have to click on Universal threads on the WDW forum. I am aware enough to have figured that out for myself, but also appreciate the constant reminder as though I'm 5 years old and needed the help.

The reason I am so knowledgeable about Universal Orlando is because it is constantly being brought up on WDW forums. I don't even have to go to the parks, as I feel like I've already been there through the ongoing fawning over their rides and restaurants on these boards.

And I repeat (again), I am not implying it should be prohibited or moved! Just questioning why Uni-lovers feel compelled to prove how great Universal is on the WDW forum. It would be like me going to the Uni-Sea World forum, finding a Loews Hard Rock resort thread and going on and on about how it can't hold a candle to Animal Kingdom Lodge. Who would bother? I wouldn't, unless I felt like I had something to prove.
My post is just my opinion about how annoyed I am to have to hear about Universal so much. I don't hate it...I'm totally glad for people who love it....it doesn't interest me.... So why do I know so much about it then? At this point, I could probably be a Universal travel agent from what I've read on WDW forums.

I agree you do not have to actually set foot in one of Universal's parks to be an expert on the subject. Same thing goes for WDW, In fact I have several friends who continue to give me advice despite the fact I have been to Disney 10+ times and they have never been. Of course some of the advice includes things like. Make sure you stay inside cinderellas castle, you don't need to make ADR's in advance, get fastpasses, or show up early. Some even think WDW only have one park not Magic Kingdom, DHS, Epcot, or AK, its all just Disney. Oddly enough, I have yet to follow the advice they give.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

MichiganDVC, you know we already talked about why I posted this thread on this board...it pertains to Universal's *impact* on WDW. I'm like you...I have no desire to go to Universal again and really have no interest in their rides or restaurants except for what it means for WDW.

But I hear 'ya...I'm all about the Disney, too!

 

[clsteve]

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

And which of your multitude of posts on this thread have any input or insight into Op's original and very valid premise?

It seems, after Mod explained why it's allowed, all it has seemingly been is an attempt to hijack or shut down the thread. You've started your own--- so why are you still here?

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree, and this is what I have been watching. Adding the DA attraction at US shows a dedication to the tween market and Harry Potter fans. Interested to see what they will do to pull in even younger guests, if anything. They don't have the property to play with that WDW does, so they may have reached their desired model. Again, time will tell. A very interesting discussion.

I think they can revamp spaces they already have to try to add/enhance their kiddie stuff, if they want to. I definitely think it's a matter of splitting time between the two resorts when you have family members with different interests...and that's something Disney does not want, hence the "lock it in" bracelet.

I so agree with the bolded and this is why I don't agree that families (like mine anyway) will be drawn to both U and D. My dses (10 and 13) are already over WDW, they have nothing there to really draw them in, or at least keep them wanting to come back year after year. When they see what is at Universal its a whole different story.
Disney really needs to do something for the 11 and up boys age group, we need Star Wars land!!

Yep, Star Wars land, that would be the Potter Swatter for the boys, especially 10 and up. Doesn't look like that is coming anytime soon though. I agree, I don't think whole families are drawn by both U and D, I think it's more a matter of splitting time when in Orlando based on individual preferences. I know that while I have a lot of fun at UOR, I like the Disney Parks better, so I'll be the one dragging my family there!

Kids know the mouse. Kids crave the mouse. That's why I don't think Universal will ever really challenge Disney.

I agree, the Mouse is the Mouse, esp for little kids. Ditto for the Princesses. Universal will never compete in that market and they don't want to.

But..some kids start to see Disney as babyish because of the emphasis on the Mouse and the Princesses. Then they go to Universal and see all of these other stories that resonate with them more. And yes, boys moreso than girls IMO.

 

[magicbob]

...and that's something Disney does not want, hence the "lock it in" bracelet.

MagicBands phase 2 = ankle bracelets?

 

[EMode]

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

Um okay. Maybe you'd be better off starting your own forum site where you can moderate and censor anything you don't like to read.
Until then I guess you'll just have to deal with people talking about Universal here on this forum since the mods here don't have a problem with it.

 

[ArwenMarie]

magicbands phase 2 = ankle bracelets?

you will wear this band!

 

[ArwenMarie]

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

I think it's totally fine to discuss Disney in relation to UOR (in other words, I enjoy reading your comments along with everyone else's)...but I don't get why you keep insisting that this thread shouldn't be here. There are plenty of moderators as we all know, and if they wanted to move it, they would. There are a lot of threads on here that I think belong on other sub forums, but I am not the moderator.

 

[johde]

I'll be the first to admit that I *do* care about Universal...that's why I started this thread. The reason is because I'm a WDW FREAK and I'm fascinated in what impact Universal is having(both positive and negative) on WDW. I've been to Universal/IOA but it was before the Harry Potter expansion, though.

My opinion: It's world class, but I've felt no real desire to return. Kind of "one and done". I'm sure we'll eventually make it over there again, but the problem is that we only have 8 nights(because of my job) and we pack it with everything Disney that we can. To be honest...we don't like to leave the "bubble". We love landing at the airport and hopping on the ME(I'm giddy even thinking about it!) and use WDW transportation the rest of the time.

I know you can stay in the "Universal bubble" by staying at their resorts, as well. But it's not DISNEY...and that's what we crave!

Probably for the past decade my trips have been the exact opposite. Prior to that, I went frequently and only did Disney. I bought a small DVC contract so it only made sense to stay Sun-Thurs on Property. So for several years it was 5 day vacations to WDW. Then, airfare stared going up, so I started taking longer vacations to Florida Less frequently. Instead of spending more time at Disney, I started Venturing out. Some of my funnest vacations is where I'd go for 10-11 days and "do it all" Fly into Tampa Saturday and spend spend rest of that day and the next day at Busch Gardens. Then spend the next 5 Nights at a DVC resort doing Monday - Thursday 3 Themepark Days, and 1 Water Park Day/rest day. Follow That up Friday - Sunday would be 2 day at Universal/ Islands of Adventure and a Day at Seaworld in a hotel in that area. Finally Back to Disney again on Sunday for 2 more nights and 1 final theme park day and rest day before flying home for Orlando Airport.

On my next vacation because of the tickets I have left, I doing a shorter "do it all" with only 1 Disney day primarily at the Magic Kingdom and more time to relax and to Universal more slowly. The trip after that though will be reversed though with only 1 Universal day and the rest WDW but I may wait on that trip until after Avatarland is finished and do Disneyland in California next instead.

 

[Planogirl]

Dising Disney, no. I feel free to comment back if I disagree.

Compulsively holding Universal rides and resorts up as the standard by which everything Disney does should be measured? Yeah, I have a problem with that. On WDW forums.

Wanna gush Universal? Gush among yourselves on the Uni-SW forum. Like I've said before 1,000 times...I don't care about USF one way or another. But I know so much about by reading WDW forums. Why do I keep reading about Universal on WDW forums?

Now, if anyone has an original critique of my opinion or zinger, feel free to reply. But please read the 50 posts already directed at me on this thread so I don't have to keep repeating myself.

For years we all saw post after post that constantly bashed Universal. Did you protest those as being off topic too?

In fairness whether you did or not, you really have no control over what people post here. Only the moderators and WM's do and so far they don't seem to have a problem with it. It also doesn't matter whether you dislike or don't care about Universal. Others do or think that they might and are trying to work the park into part of their overall vacation. It is easier to discuss all plans on one forum.

I do agree that using Universal as a weapon against Disney seems odd. I see that a lot where someone says that they'll show Disney by going to Universal. I don't get that one. I don't have a problem with people comparing the two though because as one improves so does the other or at least that tends to be the end result.

 

[MichiganDVC]

For the (hopefully) last time. I never said this thread should be moved or doesn't have the right to be here, etc... Leave moderation out of it. Originally, I asked why universal lovers feel the need to constantly post how great UO is on WDW forums. Not that they shouldn't be "allowed" to. But why DO they?

And it's been answered. A lot. On both sides. For 24 hours.

Why do I keep responding then? Because you keep quoting me and asking questions!

 

[Planogirl]

MichiganDVC, you know we already talked about why I posted this thread on this board...it pertains to Universal's *impact* on WDW. I'm like you...I have no desire to go to Universal again and really have no interest in their rides or restaurants except for what it means for WDW.

But I hear 'ya...I'm all about the Disney, too!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that IMO but there's also nothing wrong with liking both parks or (gasp) preferring that other place. I also wonder how Universal will impact WDW. I can only see an upside.

 

[johde]

And i think getting back to the original question, although not the OP original comment, Universal from the beginning has focus on Disney's "weak spot". Disney's weak spot is the tween/teen/college aged market. While most Disney's attractions are enjoyable by the entire family, the focus target audience to skew either younger or in the case of EPCOT older. Universal, on the other hand like you mentioned tends to focus more "boy" Shrek, Terminator, Transformers, Hulk etc. and toward that target Market lightly hit by Disney.

The Thrill rides are more thrilling that your typical Disney counterpart. But, other than maybe the Hulk, not as thrilling as you find at the likes of a Cedar Point, Busch Gardens and the like. Long term, Disney's biggest risk is large numbers of people shifting there vacation patterns from

1) WDW Vacation
2) WDW Vacation + a day at Universal
3) WDW and Universal Vacation
4) MK (or EPCOT, or DHS, or DAK) and Universal Vacation

 

[MichiganDVC]

Disney is spending billions on Magic Band technology and Shanghai Disney...as well as their other international parks.

Walt Disney World is getting hardly anything. Sure New Fantasyland and Avatarland(still three years away at least!) are going on but Universal is just growing and adding at an insane pace.

Since Disney is so much more *spread out* around the world with capital expenditures they are exposing their CROWN JEWEL Walt Disney World to insane pilfering from Universal.

I would love to hear froim anyone how WDW can recover from Universal Orlando's onslaught when Disney is spread too thin with their global commitments.

As requested, in absolute direct response to OP's original post (and of course I apologize for being the cause of the first-ever Disboards thread that has veered slightly from its original post):

1. I don't think Universal has pilfered from WDW at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but attendance has risen in all parks in the last 5 years. WDW has seen record profits in the last 5 years. If USF is getting more visitors, good for them. One could argue that Siesta Key is also getting more visitors due to their proximity to Orlando and pristine, white beaches. I don't think we need to start worrying about WDW adding more beaches to keep up with Siesta Key!

2. I think Disney is about the Disney brand, not WDW. Frankly, I'm not sure if WDW is the jewel in the crown. Wouldn't that always be Disneyland, Walt's original?

3. Disney is kind of like the NBA. It isn't terribly worried about its home audience, which is still going strong, because it is raking in new fans in China and across the world at the same time. In China and India alone, we are talking about 300 million people at least who have plenty of disposable income and would love to spend it at Disney parks. Disney is smart for not putting all their love into WDW, but across the ever-globalizing world.

4. But Disney IS putting love into WDW. Art of Animation just opened up a couple of years ago, VGF just opened up last year, and POLY DVC is going to cause a stampede that will put A&E to shame.

I know, I know...."who cares about resorts, I want more E-ticket attractions! I want 10 E-ticket attractions in every park!"

New Fantasyland? "Don't like it. Not enough E-tickets. Too geared toward kiddies." Even though it replaced Mickey's Toontown, for goodness sakes.
Avatarland? "Don't like it. Didn't like the movie. It will be a bust. It'll take too long."

Problem is, Disney won't make any more profit with 10 E-Ticket attractions in every park. They already have higher attendance in 2013 than ever before. And its not going down. There are too many North American and international visitors that want to go to WDW regardless of FP+ or 3 hour A&E wait. So they created MM+ and FP+ to better manage large crowds today and in the future.

Universal is growing and adding an an insane pace because they have to. They weren't getting much attendance before they did. They have no where to go but up.

 

[magicbob]

And i think getting back to the original question, although not the OP original comment, Universal from the beginning has focus on Disney's "weak spot". Disney's weak spot is the tween/teen/college aged market. While most Disney's attractions are enjoyable by the entire family, the focus target audience to skew either younger or in the case of EPCOT older. Universal, on the other hand like you mentioned tends to focus more "boy" Shrek, Terminator, Transformers, Hulk etc. and toward that target Market lightly hit by Disney.

The Thrill rides are more thrilling that your typical Disney counterpart. But, other than maybe the Hulk, not as thrilling as you find at the likes of a Cedar Point, Busch Gardens and the like. Long term, Disney's biggest risk is large numbers of people shifting there vacation patterns from

1) WDW Vacation
2) WDW Vacation + a day at Universal
3) WDW and Universal Vacation
4) MK (or EPCOT, or DHS, or DAK) and Universal Vacation

As WDW execs themselves have stated, this is one of the primary purposes for MM/FP+: to "lock it in" and prevent Universal and others from siphoning off guests from their WDW vacations. Even if it's only a day or two at Universal out of a 10-day vacation, that's still lost revenue to Disney. Even if there's no chance that Universal will EVER overtake Disney, even this small percentage of the market share represents revenue that Disney wants spent with them instead.

 

[MichiganDVC]

As WDW execs themselves have stated, this is one of the primary purposes for MM/FP+: to "lock it in" and prevent Universal and others from siphoning off guests from their WDW vacations. Even if it's only a day or two at Universal out of a 10-day vacation, that's still lost revenue to Disney. Even if there's no chance that Universal will EVER overtake Disney, even this small percentage of the market share represents revenue that Disney wants spent with them instead.

Sure they do, but they don't want them at the parks. Disney would be thrilled if you spent a half a day at the parks and the other half at your WDW resort, swimming and dining. They got your park admission, they get 100% of your dining dollars, etc...
But you can't have 100% of the resort guest at the parks all the time. Hence the emphasis on resorts lately. For me, its great! I love having coffee on the balcony, overlooking whatever view I have, going to the pool for a few hours, and then heading to a park for the evening. My sister with three kids, ages 10, 6, 4, love to do the same. As we speak, they are at AKL-Kidani and instead of checking off rides they've been on, they're checking off animals they've seen from their balcony. They'll hit up HS later with their FP+ ready to go. And I bet they're having the time of their lives in what is probably their 20th WDW trip as a family in the last 7 years.

But I digress.... I agree that MM+/FP+ is about locking in guests, but so is the declining price-per-day ticket packages, Magical Express and free dining specials, etc... It clearly has always been Disney's goal to get you there and keep you there. MM+/FP+ do that as well, but I also think it is to maximize efficiency to manage large crowds.

 

[magicbob]

Sure they do, but they don't want them at the parks. Disney would be thrilled if you spent a half a day at the parks and the other half at your WDW resort, swimming and dining. They got your park admission, they get 100% of your dining dollars, etc...
But you can't have 100% of the resort guest at the parks all the time. Hence the emphasis on resorts lately. For me, its great! I love having coffee on the balcony, overlooking whatever view I have, going to the pool for a few hours, and then heading to a park for the evening. My sister with three kids, ages 10, 6, 4, love to do the same. As we speak, they are at AKL-Kidani and instead of checking off rides they've been on, they're checking off animals they've seen from their balcony. They'll hit up HS later with their FP+ ready to go. And I bet they're having the time of their lives in what is probably their 20th WDW trip as a family in the last 7 years.

But I digress.... I agree that MM+/FP+ is about locking in guests, but so is the declining price-per-day ticket packages, Magical Express and free dining specials, etc... It clearly has always been Disney's goal to get you there and keep you there. MM+/FP+ do that as well, but I also think it is to maximize efficiency to manage large crowds.

I agree. The recent marketing definitely emphasizing riding a few things with FP+ and then heading back to the resort to relax by the pool. It's like turning over tables in a restaurant. Get people out to make room for more people who haven't spent their money yet.

 

[ArwenMarie]

And i think getting back to the original question, although not the OP original comment, Universal from the beginning has focus on Disney's "weak spot". Disney's weak spot is the tween/teen/college aged market. While most Disney's attractions are enjoyable by the entire family, the focus target audience to skew either younger or in the case of EPCOT older. Universal, on the other hand like you mentioned tends to focus more "boy" Shrek, Terminator, Transformers, Hulk etc. and toward that target Market lightly hit by Disney.

The Thrill rides are more thrilling that your typical Disney counterpart. But, other than maybe the Hulk, not as thrilling as you find at the likes of a Cedar Point, Busch Gardens and the like. Long term, Disney's biggest risk is large numbers of people shifting there vacation patterns from

1) WDW Vacation
2) WDW Vacation + a day at Universal
3) WDW and Universal Vacation
4) MK (or EPCOT, or DHS, or DAK) and Universal Vacation

Yep.

This is from that conference with Rasulo last April...

"We know that the earlier guests plan their trip to Walt Disney World, the more time they spend with us. People have been coming to Central Florida for about an eight day vacation for a very very long time. And once they get into the market, all of you have been down there, you are just bombarded with all of the other things that you can do while in Orlando.

When people plan at home, they tend to plan a lot more of their time at Walt Disney World."

We all know the "other things that you can do while in Orlando" is UOR, even though they will never say that. The risk is the week-long Disney vacation becoming a 4-day vacation, with the other three days spent at some of the "other things that you can do while in Orlando"

 

[MichiganDVC]

We all know the "other things that you can do while in Orlando" is UOR, even though they will never say that. The risk is the week-long Disney vacation becoming a 4-day vacation, with the other three days spent at some of the "other things that you can do while in Orlando"

I look at it a different way... If I was buying a MYW ticket package, why would I leave MK after day 4? That's when the tickets are either free or $10 more per day? And the alternative is to rent a car or get a taxi to go to USF to pay $180 for another two-day ticket? I think that would stop most people from bothering, outside of upper-middle class.