Universal is taking advantage of Disney's weak spot

[sheetz]

The trainer killed by a whale occurred in early 2010, so I have to think that had an impact.

I don't see why that would have impacted attendance. As far as I know whenever an amusement park has a rollercoaster accident the parks themselves don'ttake much of a hit in attendance. And in this case it was an employee who was killed. Prior to Blackfish most people would have just called it a freak accident.

 

[sheetz]

But apparently they had record profits even with lower crowds.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...2_1_seaworld-orlando-seaworld-parks-blackfish

But if UNI keeps expanding and taking away guests it'll eventually hurt them in the future. Sea World just reported a further 13% decline this past quarter. I don't care how they spin it they can't be happy about this.

 

[prudence64]

I don't see why that would have impacted attendance. As far as I know whenever an amusement park has a rollercoaster accident the parks themselves don'ttake much of a hit in attendance. And in this case it was an employee who was killed. Prior to Blackfish most people would have just called it a freak accident.

It freaked me out enough that I wouldn't want to be there witness a similar incident.

 

[sheetz]

It freaked me out enough that I wouldn't want to be there witness a similar incident.

But even if that's the case you could still avoid the orca shows and do everything else. Frankly, I just don't see how the incident could have spooked so many people as to cause a 12% drop in attendance.

 

[BigAlsGal]

Will someone please tell the crowds at disney world they are suppose to be at universal!!

 

[EPCOTatNight]

Will someone please tell the crowds at disney world they are suppose to be at universal!!

Not being funny, but I wish WDW would lose more people. WDW is very crowded these days. I wish Universal keeps doing better. Everyone wins with legitimate competition. Universal is still far behind, but I hope that changes.

Sent from my IPad using DisBoards.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Not being funny, but I wish WDW would lose more people. WDW is very crowded these days. I wish Universal keeps doing better. Everyone wins with legitimate competition. Universal is still far behind, but I hope that changes.

Sent from my IPad using DisBoards.

The MK is "very crowded these days"...the rest of WDW?

Not so much.

 

[Magpie]

This Is pure truth. While some people might think I only sit here and hate on FP+ I have actually had some very positive things to say about it, particularly in high season.

Moreover if you look at my posts outside the theme parks strategy section, I often chime in just to give out the needed information someone Is seeking to help their vacation along.

But there are two common things I see here, among many, 1) people telling other people their complaints are useless, worthless, of no impact, "haterish", or, most often 'their own fault' because of their attitude. That they shouldnt be posting them and should just get over it, go somewhere else, go to another board/thread/fan site ...These people often simply gush at anything disney does and think Disney can do no wrong. How many of these people said those complaining about the monorail being down deserved no compensation and no where does disney say you get the monorail and staying at a monorail resort does not mean you are paying for the monorail ?????

The same people then do 2) .. when someone comes back with a negative trip report due to things like construction, repairs, unmet expectations ... they tell them they have no business complaining if they didn't do their research first on places like the disboards ...

So shut up with the complaints ... and don't complain unless you researched the potential complaints ... ??

People who just luuuuuuuuuuuuv disney or try to argue disney is still great therefore no complaints are justified are only serving to ensure the quality of vacation continues to drop. If a business can continue to cut while you are still willing to pay the same, or more, and not only not complain, but tell others not to complain, they are just going to keep cutting. The true fans will tell them when their favorite teams, places, restaurants, people, parties, are screwing up ... they want to see them at their best, not settle for "still doing well" I think It was phrased early in this thread.

I'm not sure...

I believe Disney IS still great.

I'm a happy, easy-going person who is often told I'm wearing "rose-coloured Mickey glasses", that I've "drunk the Kool-Aid" (okay, not THAT easy-going, I actually find references to the massacre pretty offensive), and that I think Disney "can do no wrong". I see little, if anything, to complain about. I think FP+ is exciting, not devastating. And I'm glad the monorail got a refurb!

My opinion is often dismissed on this basis. I'm apparently not a "true fan", by your standards, because I'm not critical enough.

I also have an obnoxious habit, when people complain, of pointing out things they could have done/could do in the future, to resolve their issue. I'm not good at the whole, "There, there, you poor helpless dear," thing. You didn't do your research? That sucks. Now you know how not to make the same mistake twice. This will enhance ALL your future vacations, anywhere else in the world (yes, I even researched London before visiting!).

So, I appear to be one of the people you're complaining about.

But I adore Universal. I think it's offering a comparable product to Disney, even if it's smaller. In fact, I think being smaller has its advantages (allowing for front of the line access for deluxe resort guests, for example). I think it's equally "magical".

I'm an equally big fan of both, and see no need to pick sides. It's not a competition. They're both wonderful theme parks, who are continuing to grow and develop in new and interesting ways.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

The MK is "very crowded these days"...the rest of WDW?

Not so much.

I was there last month. AK was the most crowded park that I experienced. It's more than MK.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

The MK is "very crowded these days"...the rest of WDW?

Not so much.

There for 3 days last week and while MK was more crowded than the other 3 parks, the others were also pretty crowded.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Not being funny, but I wish WDW would lose more people. WDW is very crowded these days. I wish Universal keeps doing better. Everyone wins with legitimate competition.

I agree but I think that the two companies are only competing for a slice of the over-all theme park market. In other words, I believe that WDW is happy to let Universal win the teens/young adult market as long as they maintain a strangle hold on the young family and elderly market. After all, young families and the elderly spend more while on vacation. Disney is more interested in that ancillary income than the gate. Their investments prove this out.

This makes some families upset because they are stuck in the middle - they love what WDW offered at one point in their lives but also love what US offers at this point in their lives (my family included). But WDW is not going to fight with us over our changing priorities.

A whole lot of people on the Dis have great ideas about how they would "fix" WDW. Guess what - WDW doesn't need our help, and it doesn't need "fixing". The changes that some would make would destroy their place in the market. I, for one, am glad that they have leadership that ignores the whims and fads of its fans. They are doing what they need to do to maintain their place in their market - not the market that which we as individuals currently occupy.

So, I don't see Disney crowds shrinking in the immediate future as a result of the work being done at Universal unless Universal changes its approach and begins to target young families. Is Harry Potter just a first step into this arena, or will they go back to their core competency? If they do go after younger families it will create an interesting challenge to Disney and might create the market pressure that some believe already exists. But if they spend too much time/money adding attractions for very young children, will they lose the interest of their current market? Can they effectively operate in both worlds?

Time will tell, but I think that both Universal and WDW will continue to build their individual markets and leave one another alone.

 

[BigAlsGal]

The MK is "very crowded these days"...the rest of WDW?

Not so much.[/

If you say so. I have yet to experience this not so crowded disney park.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree but I think that the two companies are only competing for a slice of the over-all theme park market. In other words, I believe that WDW is happy to let Universal win the teens/young adult market as long as they maintain a strangle hold on the young family and elderly market. After all, young families and the elderly spend more while on vacation. Disney is more interested in that ancillary income than the gate. Their investments prove this out.

This makes some families upset because they are stuck in the middle - they love what WDW offered at one point in their lives but also love what US offers at this point in their lives (my family included). But WDW is not going to fight with us over our changing priorities.

A whole lot of people on the Dis have great ideas about how they would "fix" WDW. Guess what - WDW doesn't need our help, and it doesn't need "fixing". The changes that some would make would destroy their place in the market. I, for one, am glad that they have leadership that ignores the whims and fads of its fans. They are doing what they need to do to maintain their place in their market - not the market that which we as individuals currently occupy.

So, I don't see Disney crowds shrinking in the immediate future as a result of the work being done at Universal unless Universal changes its approach and begins to target young families. Is Harry Potter just a first step into this arena, or will they go back to their core competency? If they do go after younger families it will create an interesting challenge to Disney and might create the market pressure that some believe already exists. But if they spend too much time/money adding attractions for very young children, will they lose the interest of their current market? Can they effectively operate in both worlds?

Time will tell, but I think that both Universal and WDW will continue to build their individual markets and leave one another alone.

I agree with your first paragraph, definitely different markets. The one thing I would add is that Universal starts appealing to tweens (age 10 and up), not teens, especially if they are boys (just a generalization, not every boy obviously).

I agree with you that Disney knows what they are doing, whether we agree or not. Sure, we would all love a whole bunch of new attractions, but for whatever reason, they don't feel they need to do that or they would.

There is stuff for little kids to do at Universal, but I think if Universal can expand on their offerings, they can make a bigger dent, especially since families often have a mix of children's ages.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I agree with your first paragraph, definitely different markets. The one thing I would add is that Universal starts appealing to tweens (age 10 and up), not teens, especially if they are boys (just a generalization, not every boy obviously).

I agree with you that Disney knows what they are doing, whether we agree or not. Sure, we would all love a whole bunch of new attractions, but for whatever reason, they don't feel they need to do that or they would.

There is stuff for little kids to do at Universal, but I think if Universal can expand on their offerings, they can make a bigger dent, especially since families often have a mix of children's ages.

I think that their markets cross for the "tween" group, so I didn't include it. That is where, IMO, they are direct competitors, but also benefit from the strengths of the other.

Disney still wants to keep those kids, but Harry Potter is a huge draw. For the tween audience and their families, both US and Disney win as many families with tweens are hitting both parks while in town. Whether the primary draw is WDW or Harry Potter, they both get a piece of the pie. And the families win as they get a more diverse vacation experience while visiting both sets of parks (and others in the area). This is a huge reason that so many families visit Orlando - great options, no matter your age or income.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think that their markets cross for the "tween" group, so I didn't include it. That is where, IMO, they are direct competitors, but also benefit from the strengths of the other.

Disney still wants to keep those kids, but Harry Potter is a huge draw. For the tween audience and their families, both US and Disney win as many families with tweens are hitting both parks while in town. Whether the primary draw is WDW or Harry Potter, they both get a piece of the pie. And the families win as they get a more diverse vacation experience while visiting both sets of parks (and others in the area). This is a huge reason that so many families visit Orlando - great options, no matter your age or income.

Disney definitely still wants the tweens, they want everyone...But I personally don't think they are doing a good job at that, especially for tween boys. They are doing a great job with the princess demographic as far as new attractions.

But yeah, families with tweens and other ages (and like ours) will be drawn to both Uni and Disney it is a crossover market. Now if Uni steps up their game in the little kid department, then we'll really see some crossover!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Disney definitely still wants the tweens, they want everyone...But I personally don't think they are doing a good job at that, especially for tween boys. They are doing a great job with the princess demographic as far as new attractions.

But yeah, families with tweens and other ages (and like ours) will be drawn to both Uni and Disney it is a crossover market. Now if Uni steps up their game in the little kid department, then we'll really see some crossover!

I agree, and this is what I have been watching. Adding the DA attraction at US shows a dedication to the tween market and Harry Potter fans. Interested to see what they will do to pull in even younger guests, if anything. They don't have the property to play with that WDW does, so they may have reached their desired model. Again, time will tell.

A very interesting discussion.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I was there last month. AK was the most crowded park that I experienced. It's more than MK.

Actually, I'm glad to hear that. I love the AK and am saddened by it's lack of visitors(in relation to the MK). I can't wait for the Avatar transformation turning it into a nighttime park!

 

[EMode]

So, I don't see Disney crowds shrinking in the immediate future as a result of the work being done at Universal unless Universal changes its approach and begins to target young families. Is Harry Potter just a first step into this arena, or will they go back to their core competency? If they do go after younger families it will create an interesting challenge to Disney and might create the market pressure that some believe already exists. But if they spend too much time/money adding attractions for very young children, will they lose the interest of their current market? Can they effectively operate in both worlds?

Time will tell, but I think that both Universal and WDW will continue to build their individual markets and leave one another alone.

Disney definitely still wants the tweens, they want everyone...But I personally don't think they are doing a good job at that, especially for tween boys. They are doing a great job with the princess demographic as far as new attractions.

But yeah, families with tweens and other ages (and like ours) will be drawn to both Uni and Disney it is a crossover market. Now if Uni steps up their game in the little kid department, then we'll really see some crossover!

I so agree with the bolded and this is why I don't agree that families (like mine anyway) will be drawn to both U and D. My dses (10 and 13) are already over WDW, they have nothing there to really draw them in, or at least keep them wanting to come back year after year. When they see what is at Universal its a whole different story.
Disney really needs to do something for the 11 and up boys age group, we need Star Wars land!!

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

The MK is "very crowded these days"...the rest of WDW?

Not so much.[/

If you say so. I have yet to experience this not so crowded disney park.

What time of year do you usually go?

 

[JeremyGNJ]

I agree, and this is what I have been watching. Adding the DA attraction at US shows a dedication to the tween market and Harry Potter fans. Interested to see what they will do to pull in even younger guests, if anything. They don't have the property to play with that WDW does, so they may have reached their desired model. Again, time will tell.

A very interesting discussion.

True.

There's one problem with the idea of Universal "expanding in the kid department". That problem is...they are DONE growing. There's no where else for them to expand. They are out of land.

Unless they buy up adjacent housing complexes, office parks or hotel properties, any addition of attractions for young kids, would be at the loss of attractions for bigger kids or adults.