United Auto Workers Union

[S. C.]

Does this mean you agree that $31K isn't enough to live on? Might be depending on where you live. Even if it isn't, it doesn't mean they should be paid more. A salary should be determined on what the job is worth to the employer and what the market will bear. If that worker couldn't live on their own on $31k, they should look for a roommate or a better paying job.

I was agreeing with you that $31k is not much to live on!

I was not associating it with any job and how much they may or may not be worth. Where they live or with whom!

 

[Golf4food]

I was agreeing with you that $31k is not much to live on!

I was not associating it with any job and how much they may or may not be worth. Where they live or with whom!

I know plenty of teachers who make a good bit less than $31K in our state...

I would certainly think a college educated teacher should be paid more than any assembly line worker regardless of the field, especially those without college degrees, etc.

 

[Judy from Boise]

actually I think the market should decide what each is worth.....just without the organized blackmail of a union.

I work with a fantastic group of CNAs who are the backbone of healthcare, and the market says they are worth about $12.00/hr, when in fact to patients they are priceless!But, these low wages motivate many to sacrifice for years as both FT workers and full time students, to get their nursing degrees, where they make good wages (unless compared with an auto worker)

 

[S. C.]

I know plenty of teachers who make a good bit less than $31K in our state...

I would certainly think a college educated teacher should be paid more than any assembly line worker regardless of the field, especially those without college degrees, etc.

I never said they shouldn't

 

[JennaTX]

If only the government would pay our health care, our retirement, provide decent housing, transportation and a $100K per year. Its only fair.

OMG I am so sick of these comments.

How does that help?

People are talking about a real problem with the auto industry and you want to bring up something that has nothing to do with it.

 

[Aristomommy]

actually I think the market should decide what each is worth.....just without the organized blackmail of a union.

I work with a fantastic group of CNAs who are the backbone of healthcare, and the market says they are worth about $12.00/hr, when in fact to patients they are priceless!But, these low wages motivate many to sacrifice for years as both FT workers and full time students, to get their nursing degrees, where they make good wages (unless compared with an auto worker)

ITA

I also work in healthcare and the need for professionals has driven the salaries and hourly wages to a better range than any union could. When I graduated, I made half of what I make today. The biggest factor is not time or experience, it's need. Since the unions bullied the wages up, now they are seeing a downturn and resistance from the big three. In order for them to provide a competitive product, something has to change...

 

[Aristomommy]

I have 30 years working with GM. I know first hand what the wages are/were and how much overtime one would have to work to make as much as you were saying.

I'm glad that you explained you feel your husbands salary more than makes up for him not having enough paid vacation time. I had no idea how much vacation time he had, it sounded like you were complaining about him only getting 2 wks compared to what his mother gets.

So working for GM, you are qualified to speak for all workers? I must have bunch of liars in my family

 

[Colleen27]

actually I think the market should decide what each is worth.....just without the organized blackmail of a union.
\

Having seen first hand what "the market" decides is why I support unions. Around here, a non-union factory job pays $7-8/hour, no vacation or sick time, with an employee share of health insurance premiums that few can afford. Ideally, there'd be some middle ground and companies would offer a reasonable wage and benefit package without union demands, but that's not the real world. The real world is people desperate enough for work that they'll settle of minimum wage with no benefits, and companies who feel no responsibility to anything other than profit.

 

[daughtersrus]

ITA

I also work in healthcare and the need for professionals has driven the salaries and hourly wages to a better range than any union could.

Some info from some of the Nurse/Health Care unions.

http://www.uannurse.org/highlights/benefits.html
http://www.calnurses.org/membership/model-contracts/
http://www.nursesunite.org/joinus.html

 

[daughtersrus]

I know plenty of teachers who make a good bit less than $31K in our state...

I would certainly think a college educated teacher should be paid more than any assembly line worker regardless of the field, especially those without college degrees, etc.

First year teachers in our area with a BA make quite a bit more than $31K. They also work 9 months instead of 12 so if you take the $31K figure, that comes out to a little over $3,400/month or about $41K/year. The starting salary for a Chicago Public School teacher is $46,761 - $51,822 for 40 weeks or about $1,169-$1,295/week or $60,788- $67,383 for 52 weeks. About double what the factory worker is making.

http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Careers/salary.htm

The salary and total compensation figures are based on a regular school term of 40 weeks, at 6.25 hours per day, for staff holding regular Illinois state standard certificates

Don't get me wrong, I think that teachers deserve to be paid fairly. I have two siblings ( 1 that makes close to $100K with only a BA thanks to a union contract) that are teachers as well as 2 DD's that are currently education majors.

I just don't understand why some assume that a college education automatically entitles you to make more than someone without. There are a lot of jobs that require expertise in the field but not necessarily a college education(electrician, auto tech, HVAC...for example).

 

[Castlebound]

So working for GM, you are qualified to speak for all workers? I must have bunch of liars in my family

Don't worry I guess I have them in my family also! Except the ones I know are now jobless "liars" with few skills other than assembly line work. Besides my mom who temped for 3 years in the late 90's I know at least 10 other people who worked at the Chrysler plants. Several of them got hired right out of high school because a family member got them in. So yes I got to hear the uproar over having to pay towards their insurance premiums. I did hear from them that their hourly pay was over $20 PLUS benefits. I do know that their subpay when the plants were down for retooling was 90%. I do know that I was warned to never buy a car that went through the line the day after payday by the very men and women who worked there. Before the van plant closed people close to retirement were offered early retirement. The last I heard all the people who lost their jobs were going to be given over $20,000 in vouchers towards the purchase of a new Chrysler, 6 months of insurance, money towards retraining, and severance pay. Smaller shops that did contract work for Chrylser are also closing and those people are getting nothing.

CEOs should not get huge bonuses when they are leading a failing company. From everything that I have heard from people who worked in the plants Chrylser is failing because of the greed from the top down.

 

[rie'smom]

If all management gets paid $20-50/hour, then the gov't can bail out the companies. The brass has made enough money over the years to have a stash. They would have to have their salary frozen at $20-50/hour until the bail out money LOAN is repaid with no bonuses snuck in to cover the difference.
If the top brass leave, I'm willing to bet there are people in the company who could take their places and run the company well instead of into the ground.

 

[Cindyluwho]

If all management gets paid $20-50/hour, then the gov't can bail out the companies. The brass has made enough money over the years to have a stash. They would have to have their salary frozen at $20-50/hour until the bail out money LOAN is repaid with no bonuses snuck in to cover the difference.
If the top brass leave, I'm willing to bet there are people in the company who could take their places and run the company well instead of into the ground.

 

[Colleen27]

I know plenty of teachers who make a good bit less than $31K in our state...

I would certainly think a college educated teacher should be paid more than any assembly line worker regardless of the field, especially those without college degrees, etc.

While that is a nice thought, the fact is that jobs paid by the taxpayers almost always pay less than private sector jobs. And they almost always offer better benefits. DH is a carpenter/plumber/handyman; his sister is a teacher. The fact is, she was 40 and held a masters before she out-earned him. But there's a trade off for the higher pay - DH has never had employer-funded benefits, and SIL has never been without them.

A college degree is no guarantee of making more than someone without one. I'm a journalism/sociology major this time around (after working in IT pre-kids); I have no illusions that I'll ever make more than my DH! Of course, I'll never have to strip a roof in 90 degree heat or replace a burst pipe in a flooded crawlspace in sub-freezing temps either.

 

[Charade]

While that is a nice thought, the fact is that jobs paid by the taxpayers almost always pay less than private sector jobs. And they almost always offer better benefits. DH is a carpenter/plumber/handyman; his sister is a teacher. The fact is, she was 40 and held a masters before she out-earned him. But there's a trade off for the higher pay - DH has never had employer-funded benefits, and SIL has never been without them.

A college degree is no guarantee of making more than someone without one. I'm a journalism/sociology major this time around (after working in IT pre-kids); I have no illusions that I'll ever make more than my DH! Of course, I'll never have to strip a roof in 90 degree heat or replace a burst pipe in a flooded crawlspace in sub-freezing temps either.

You seem to be neglecting the fact that those benefits have monetary value. So if you factor in the real cost of those benefits (doesn't matter who's footing the bill as long as it's someone else) to her salary, I'd bet she out earned him well before she was 40.

 

[Aristomommy]

Some info from some of the Nurse/Health Care unions.

http://www.uannurse.org/highlights/benefits.html
http://www.calnurses.org/membership/model-contracts/
http://www.nursesunite.org/joinus.html

I actually worked in a hospital where the nurses and some other workers voted in a union. It was UAW or a branch of them, and they had no clue how healthcare works. I saw absolutely no benefit of them being there and I had to pay union dues. As a kicker, the hospital employees who were not in the union had a better contract than the one the union negotiated. The UAW negotiated better contract for the auto workers (free health insurance) than the people that worked IN the hospital that provided the care. I would think I would have free health care since it's all in house....

 

[Judy from Boise]

Having seen first hand what "the market" decides is why I support unions. Around here, a non-union factory job pays $7-8/hour, no vacation or sick time, with an employee share of health insurance premiums that few can afford. Ideally, there'd be some middle ground and companies would offer a reasonable wage and benefit package without union demands, but that's not the real world. The real world is people desperate enough for work that they'll settle of minimum wage with no benefits, and companies who feel no responsibility to anything other than profit.

I understand what you are saying....but if there were equal footing for the whole labor pool (as opposed to union/non-union) the companies would have to compete on salaries and benefits just to staff their plants, and wages would rise. The kicker is they will only rise to market value.

 

[WDWMom]

I see I need to quit the field I've been working in for years and work for Chrysler at 41K. Beats my salary!

You obviously didn't read my whole post. He STARTED there at 19 years old making $20/hour. He was not there for years and making $20/hour. I wish I had been making 41K at 19 but I was in college so I wouldn't have to work in a factory my whole life.

 

[minnie61650]

CNN reported that if one of the big 3 goes down up to 1-2 million could lose thier jobs because all the other companies that support them.

You are correct there are many jobs that tied to the auto industry.

Monday, November 3, 2008
Analysts: Big 3 woes imperil U.S. economy
Alisa Priddle / The Detroit News

Auto manufacturers and related businesses employ as many as 3.1 million workers across the United States, a broad network of jobs that loom large for federal officials considering taking steps to bolster domestic carmakers whose plummeting sales have created a cash crisis that threatens the very concept of the Big Three.

Every direct job at an automaker in the United States creates five more jobs, said Sean McAlinden, chief economist and vice president for research for the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. Two of the five are related to suppliers or dealers; the other three are spinoff jobs at businesses where auto industry workers spend their paychecks.

The next closest industry to autos is high-tech, where each job creates a total of four, including spinoffs, he said. By contrast, one Wall Street position creates a total of about 2.5 jobs, yet Congress expedited aid to the financial services sector this year.

Link:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081103/AUTO01/811030343/1148/rss25

 

[minnie61650]

.......

ANYWAY, we can argue the merits of helping out the auto industry all day, but here's the thing. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T LET THEM FAIL. Actually, it CAN'T let them fail.

It's a Homeland Security Issue. We need the car companies, we need the steel industry in case of war.

You hit the nail on the head.

If one of the big 3 American car compainies goes under I fear we will NOT have to worry about a ression because we will go into a depression and my prediction is it may be up to 15 years or so before the USA fully recovers ...if ever.

JMHO
JMHO