United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[okeydokey]

The man was 69 years old? He had to go to the hospital, poor guy. Honestly United deserves to be boycotted.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

LOL. "America, America..." Is this the freedom our founding fathers fought for?

I'm a bit disturbed by the emphasis some other posters on this thread have placed on the importance of acting like sheep. They wholeheartedly disapprove of the passenger standing up for himself. I agree that it might not have been the wisest or most cautious response, but I completely sympathize with him & abhor the way he was treated.

I never said to act like sheep. I said the person could argue and voice his objections up to a certain point. However, when the 3rd guard comes and says it's time to leave, then it's time to leave. Your objections were voiced, heard, but you lost.

 

[DisBabe94]

The man was 69 years old? He had to go to the hospital, poor guy. Honestly United deserves to be boycotted.

Honestly what were they thinking who is the brain power behind this decision "Ok people aren't going for the incentives, we need to move our crew.... OKay guys guess time to bring in security to forcibly remove this arbitrarily chosen old man!!!" Seriously.....

 

[mefordis]

So question,

how much does it take to get u off the plane? i think if it reached $1000 + free night + free flight next day...

I'd add to that first class flight. I'm sure that would have attracted takers. Much easier than this terrible publicity they are facing.

 

[Albort]

I agree that United did not handle this well.

But Dr. I was picked because I'm Chinese (from the article) also did not handle it well either. (Before the removal I mean.) We don't know

Yes, the people on the plane had lives to get back to, but I'm sure the people who were depending on that flight crew also had lives as well.

I am pretty sure they couldn't have rented a van and driven the crew to Lexington because that probably would have needed to be counted against their duty hours, which also would have inconvenienced the passengers awaiting that crew.

Based on the wording in the article from the Chicago Tribune, they initially asked for A volunteer at the gate, making it sound like as boarding began they thought they only needed one seat to accommodate one person (the article doesn't state that it was a United crew member). After boarding, they discovered they needed four more seats for the United crew members. It is possible that the original accommodations for these four other crew members fell through, making it necessary to ask for more volunteers on this flight, when none raised their hand, United started involuntary bumping.

Tribune article:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...oval-an-upsetting-event/ar-BBzES5O?li=BBnb7Kz


From the article, regarding how they choose who to bump:

At that point, United's contract of carriage says the airline can select passengers to bump to a later flight, based on a priority system that can take into account how much passengers paid, how often they fly, whether missing that flight could affect a connecting flight and how early they checked in. People with disabilities and unaccompanied minors are generally last to be bumped

I do find it hard to believe that United the company itself cant find backups somewhere else. Im sure they could had got someone else onboard the outgoing plane.

Im sure United is asking itself, if this bad PR is worth that money or not.

Also, they should have raised their compensation. the federal law limits it to just below $1400. Why it was not raised to that point is an interesting question. Im sure the crew is kicking themselves for not trying.

Im sure his patients should also be compensated for United's actions.

 

[mummabear]

A WORKING crew headed for the next flight in another city. Without that crew, a whole plane load of people does.not.fly, with ripple effects on down the line.

And whose fault is that? Not this mans? Not mine or yours.
It's Uniteds fault, and their problem to fix. Assaulting a paying customer isn't fixing the problem.
The "working" staff didn't need to be on the flight until the next day.

And as for as "not following crew instructions" the crew in my opionion is abusing what that law is written for.
This man was not a threat.
He was not refusing to put out a smoke, to sit down during turbulence, he was not attacking crew or other passengers, he wasn't drunk.
He was not breaking any health and safety protocols.
He was not a security issue.

Well, he can protest and obviously did, but he does not have any actual right to be on the plane. The airline who owns and operates that plane had asked him to disembark. They have the right to ask him, and then force him, to do so. He could be found to be violating Federal Law by not complying. Now, if that's worth it to him to make that point, well, hey, best of luck with that. Airports are highly secured areas and for good reason. Escalating matters with airport police simply isn't going to lead to any positive outcomes for you.

I do agree that the behavior of United is also outrageously poor in regards to these customers forcibly bumped. They planned very poorly and it bit them. They were unwilling to keep increasing the compensation or whatever led them to selecting random people. It's pretty bad, and terribly handled by the looks of things. However, they did not violate any laws. This is a risk of buying airline tickets and they are the ones within their rights to do what they did. Don't like it? Write your congressman to get the appropriate laws and regulations changed, and more importantly, until that happens, don't buy a ticket on any airline.

And the question is should we have he right? Should we have the right for the airline to provide us with the seat we have paid for when he service is running?
Should they be allowed to double sell seats?

And when he was selected for involuntary bumping, all of that ceased to matter. He still gets the service he paid for. He gets flown on a later flight. It's all within airline rules, which you accept when you buy a ticket. He violated the rules when he refused involuntary bumping. They told him they would remove him by force if he didn't cooperate. He didn't cooperate.

If security anywhere asks me to cooperate, I cooperate. I would complain to management afterwards if I felt I was being unfairly treated. But refusing to cooperate because you feel entitled to whatever it is you think the other party is denying you legally- that's not adult, rational behavior.

He does not get the service he paid for.
If I book on the 10am flight on 6/4 putting me on a 3pm flight on 7/4 isn't giving me the service I paid for.

If you buy a ticket to see Star Wars at the movies and they play Moana, are you still getting the service you paid for? You watched a movie right.

I definitely agree with this. But what else would you have the airline do? They can't let him refuse, because then that makes it look like it's voluntary bumping. What would they do if he next person refused? At some point they're going to be removing someone forcibly from that plane. Bumping an active flight crew is not a viable option.

They aren't bumping the crew. The crew didn't have seats on the plane.
What do I expect the airline to do, fly people on the flight the book and pay for.

But why do people just think this is ok?

People have lives to get to. They have connecting flights. They have meetings. Time matters. You, as a customer, paid for a seat on a specific airplane. Part of the price of your ticket was the fact that you were getting on a specific flight.

You shouldn't get bumped. It shouldn't even be considered part of standard operating procedure. It's ridiculous that an entire industry thinks this is acceptable behavior.

Exactly. I can tell you this is not something that happens on NZ. Air NZ don't oversell their flights.

United CEO has apologized:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/un...-man-dragged-off-flight/ar-BBzFbry?li=BBnb7Kz

Not much of an apology. "Reaccomadate" guests, hardly what I would call that, even without the assault.

 

[RedAngie]

Question (and you might know since you've been bumped): What happens to the checked luggage? If they are just looking for random volunteers to take a different flight, how huge a job is it to sort through all the luggage? Wouldn't that result in hours of delay?

I'm not sure. Since the bumped passengers have already been cleared to fly, maybe any checked luggage is allowed to stay on the plane. If not, I suppose there is indeed a flight delay due to retrieving it from the hold.

Both times I was bumped it was voluntary. One time I only had a carry-on. The other time was on the second leg of a connecting flight. My checked bag went to Philly without me and I picked it up the next day when I finally arrived.

 

[Westcoastwild]

And whose fault is that? Not this mans? Not mine or yours.
It's Uniteds fault, and their problem to fix. Assaulting a paying customer isn't fixing the problem.
The "working" staff didn't need to be on the flight until the next day.

And as for as "not following crew instructions" the crew in my opionion is abusing what that law is written for.
This man was not a threat.
He was not refusing to put out a smoke, to sit down during turbulence, he was not attacking crew or other passengers, he wasn't drunk.
He was not breaking any health and safety protocols.
He was not a security issue.



And the question is should we have he right? Should we have the right for the airline to provide us with the seat we have paid for when he service is running?
Should they be allowed to double sell seats?



He does not get the service he paid for.
If I book on the 10am flight on 6/4 putting me on a 3pm flight on 7/4 isn't giving me the service I paid for.

If you buy a ticket to see Star Wars at the movies and they play Moana, are you still getting the service you paid for? You watched a movie right.



They aren't bumping the crew. The crew didn't have seats on the plane.
What do I expect the airline to do, fly people on the flight the book and pay for.



Exactly. I can tell you this is not something that happens on NZ. Air NZ don't oversell their flights.



Not much of an apology. "Reaccomadate" guests, hardly what I would call that, even without the assault.

Your movie thing doesn't make any sense. A better comparison would be- you buy a ticket to the 3:30 showing of Moana, they say sorry, that screen isn't working or our clerk oversold on accident, here's a ticket to the 7:44 showing of Moana.

Your dates on your flight had me really confused until I realized you were from NZ. I agree. If I buy a ticket for Saturday, I expect my flight to take off on Saturday. But the airline rules don't guarantee that. And it wouldn't be any different with any form of transportation. I expect my car to work. It might not. I expect the pass to be open. The DOT might rule it too unsafe to open. I expect Amtrak to run between two cities. A mudslide happens. They substitute a bus which will probably actually arrive earlier than the train would...but I won't be on it because I get bus sick. If I had wanted a bus, I would have taken a bus. &$@! happens. It may not be fair, but throwing a fit doesn't help. (Flight delays, train delays, impassable passes, car problems- all of that happened this winter. Yes, all very inconvenient). None of it life changing. The guy was trying to get back to work. I think the rules suck, and I think United has awful customer service, but I really can't think of any situation where I would have done the same thing the guy did- unless it would have meant a kid or vulnerable adult in my care would be flying alone. If this story was about a family, I think I'd feel a lot differently.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I don't care what any freaking contract of carriage says.
I will say it again.
Nobody should have the right to physically assault and drag an innocent, paying, customer...
EVER.
Especially a child, or an almost 70 year old man... Who, after seeing more footage, seems to have some deficits/issues.

I still find this footage to be very disturbing.
There are about a million ways that an airline can handle these situations without assaulting innocent defenseless paying human beings.

No reason... No justification... No excuse...

Maybe our current Congress should re-visit the so called Passenger Bill of Rights.
It doesn't protect innocent passengers from assault and battery...
Really?
Seriously!!!!

We are not talking about a TSA pat-down here.
This was physical assault.

 

[mummabear]

3:30 showing of Moana, they say sorry, that screen isn't working or our clerk oversold on accident, here's a ticket to the 7:44 showing of Moana.

See but there is a difference between screen not working and we sold too many tickets and we drew you out of a hat a you don't get to see it.
See the 3:30 Moana is still playing, the screen ain't broken. The theatre was just being greedy and oversold.

All the other examples you have given are things outside of people's control, cars breaking down, passes being closed due to slips. These are unforeseen.
A monkey could work out that if you have 100 seats and you sell 110 seats that you are going to have a problem.

 

[bcla]

And the real question is should legally they be able to contract out of providing the service consumers are contracting them for? Sure for reasons outside of their control -weather, maintenance but they should be required to act in good faith of providing the service that they are selling.

It's in the contract of carriage, Rule 25. Accepting the ticket generally means it is considered good faith when the airline follows these terms, even if it's delayed to the next flight.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

 

[Wishing on a star]

NOPE, Westcoast, I too feel that this is completely wrong.
A more truthful and accurate analogy would be:
You bought and paid for your ticket...
You are in your seat, with your $$$$$$ popcorn and drink..
Staff calls police and assaults you and drags you out, because their friend wanted to see the movie, this showing... 'now'....

 

[bcla]

NOPE, Westcoast, I too feel that this is completely wrong.
A more truthful and accurate analogy would be:
You bought and paid for your ticket...
You are in your seat, with your $$$$$$ popcorn and drink..
Staff calls police and assaults you and drags you out, because their friend wanted to see the movie, this showing... 'now'....

I've actually been removed from a movie before. Not for anything I did, but I brought my kid in and there was a total kid freak out and (I kid you not) armed security guards came to the auditorium to tell us to leave. I left peacefully although my kid was still agitated. I'm not sure they would have manhandled my kid, but perhaps me if I refused to leave.

 

[mefordis]

I'm sure they are offering him a settlement to keep quiet about this. I hope he doesn't take it and sues.

"Fly the friendly skies while we punch you in the face and drag you off the plane."

 

[focusondisney]

And whose fault is that? Not this mans? Not mine or yours.
It's Uniteds fault, and their problem to fix. Assaulting a paying customer isn't fixing the problem.
The "working" staff didn't need to be on the flight until the next day.

And as for as "not following crew instructions" the crew in my opionion is abusing what that law is written for.
This man was not a threat.
He was not refusing to put out a smoke, to sit down during turbulence, he was not attacking crew or other passengers, he wasn't drunk.
He was not breaking any health and safety protocols.
He was not a security issue.



And the question is should we have he right? Should we have the right for the airline to provide us with the seat we have paid for when he service is running?
Should they be allowed to double sell seats?



He does not get the service he paid for.
If I book on the 10am flight on 6/4 putting me on a 3pm flight on 7/4 isn't giving me the service I paid for.

If you buy a ticket to see Star Wars at the movies and they play Moana, are you still getting the service you paid for? You watched a movie right.



They aren't bumping the crew. The crew didn't have seats on the plane.
What do I expect the airline to do, fly people on the flight the book and pay for.



Exactly. I can tell you this is not something that happens on NZ. Air NZ don't oversell their flights.



Not much of an apology. "Reaccomadate" guests, hardly what I would call that, even without the assault.

I wish I could like this post more than once. I agree with absolutely everything g you said.

 

[Westcoastwild]

See but there is a difference between screen not working and we sold too many tickets and we drew you out of a hat a you don't get to see it.
See the 3:30 Moana is still playing, the screen ain't broken. The theatre was just being greedy and oversold.

All the other examples you have given are things outside of people's control, cars breaking down, passes being closed due to slips. These are unforeseen.
A monkey could work out that if you have 100 seats and you sell 110 seats that you are going to have a problem.

They're still either giving you the option of attending the movie or credit for later down the line. Like the airlines do. And everyone has said- overselling is a common practice on all the US airlines. That's the problem. Great that New Zealand air doesn't do it. But I bet at least some airlines flying to NZ do.

My point was that getting involuntarily bumped can't be predicted by the passenger anymore than mechanical issues or weather can. Last flight was cancelled because a bunch of other flights were cancelled because it was taking "too long" to deice planes. The ladies at the customer service counter were pleasantly surprised when I was polite and asked to be put on an even later flight than what they wanted to put me on. I had accepted the delay, I mean what else could I do, but I wasn't going to fly out at 4am. I'm willing to accept that all parties were at fault- but the guy refused to leave when security asked him to.

 

[focusondisney]

NOPE, Westcoast, I too feel that this is completely wrong.
A more truthful and accurate analogy would be:
You bought and paid for your ticket...
You are in your seat, with your $$$$$$ popcorn and drink..
Staff calls police and assaults you and drags you out, because their friend wanted to see the movie, this showing... 'now'....

Nope, still not quite right. They drag you out because they need the seat for the movie they will show in that theater tomorrow.

 

[bcla]

I'm not sure. Since the bumped passengers have already been cleared to fly, maybe any checked luggage is allowed to stay on the plane. If not, I suppose there is indeed a flight delay due to retrieving it from the hold.

Both times I was bumped it was voluntary. One time I only had a carry-on. The other time was on the second leg of a connecting flight. My checked bag went to Philly without me and I picked it up the next day when I finally arrived.

If someone is removed from a flight because of something suspicious, they will typically go search for that passenger's luggage. If someone is checked-in with luggage and doesn't board the flight, it's standard operating procedure to search for the luggage and remove it. It should be obvious why.

It's pretty common for luggage to arrive at a different time. I've sent my in-laws to the airport past the 45 minute cutoff. They slapped "late check-in" on the luggage and said that they couldn't guarantee that it would arrive on the same flight.

 

[declansdad]

Except I've read twitter feeds and quotes from other passengers on the plane that do not agree with what you are trying to imply.

I'm not trying to imply anything; I was basing my comments on short video clip that people saw.

That's your opinion and your right to continue to fly with this specific line.

I personally will never give a dime of my money to united again. Regardless of the law, it's wrong to forcefully remove a peaceful, paying passenger. I can't even imagine if someone put their hands on me or my child. I'm sure these situations happen often and you don't see people being physically assaulted- because there's a better way to handle it. This is 100% on United for creating the situation.

Something being legal does not make it okay or the right thing to do.

Do you typically fly with United?

But why do people just think this is ok?

People have lives to get to. They have connecting flights. They have meetings. Time matters. You, as a customer, paid for a seat on a specific airplane. Part of the price of your ticket was the fact that you were getting on a specific flight.

You shouldn't get bumped. It shouldn't even be considered part of standard operating procedure. It's ridiculous that an entire industry thinks this is acceptable behavior.

But you didn't pay for a seat on a specific plane.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well CBS Evening News didn't really give a heads up that they were showing part of the video so...yeah I was trying to avoid that but nope.

I know if I had been a passenger that whole scene would have stuck with me in the worst way.

My husband and I both agreed allowing the plane to board was a big mistake.