United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[NFLDERS]

How happy would you be as a patient of his to find out "oops sorry, the doctor can't see you and has to cancel your appointment today, come back another day. Sorry!"

I'd settle on 1 free "Elective" surgery, a private room and free T.V. to answer Albort's question.

 

[mnrose]

So he was bumped for crew members flying standby? Isn't the point of standby that you get a seat if there's room? That's one of the reasons it's free or deeply discounted isn't it?

I definitely disagree with how the airline handled the situation.

A WORKING crew headed for the next flight in another city. Without that crew, a whole plane load of people does.not.fly, with ripple effects on down the line.

 

[Miskey]

I'm having a hard time believing that so many people would have just been "oh well" and given up their seat. (Especially with some of the rants I have read on these very boards) The airline should have continued to up the compensation until someone volunteered.

 

[mnrose]

How do you know he was innocent? There is no video of what he was doing and like it or not, if authorities ask you to leave the plane you should be leaving the plane.

Exactly. The terms of carriage ALLOW involuntary bumping (with substantial compensation, up to 4x what you paid for your ticket). It's perfectly legal for the airline to REFUSE you boarding. Happens all the time. If you don't like it, then please do not buy an airline ticket because I guarantee if you fly long enough and often enough, it WILL happen to you.

You leave the plane when they ask you to. You DO NOT hold up an entire plane's worth of passengers and create a scene that helps no one.

 

[mnrose]

I'm having a hard time believing that so many people would have just been "oh well" and given up their seat. (Especially with some of the rants I have read on these very boards) The airline should have continued to up the compensation until someone volunteered.

I'm sure they went to the point where the involuntary compensation was the same or less. So, go with your contract of carriage and do an involuntary removal. These happen every single day in this country.

 

[wilkeliza]

Exactly. The terms of carriage ALLOW involuntary bumping (with substantial compensation, up to 4x what you paid for your ticket). It's perfectly legal for the airline to REFUSE you boarding. Happens all the time. If you don't like it, then please do not buy an airline ticket because I guarantee if you fly long enough and often enough, it WILL happen to you.

You leave the plane when they ask you to. You DO NOT hold up an entire plane's worth of passengers and create a scene that helps no one.

I'm sure they went to the point where the involuntary compensation was the same or less. So, go with your contract of carriage and do an involuntary removal. These happen every single day in this country.

The thing that most of us are saying (or at least me) is that yes we all know the airline has the right to bump you but why did it get this far. They knew they didn't have the seats but still bored the whole plane. Sorry once I'm sitting yeah I'm going to make a stink that you now tell me I have to deplane and not leave until tomorrow. They could have involuntary bumped people before boarding.

 

[DisBabe94]

Ok, the crew were needed in another city to staff another aircraft. If they don't get on that flight, an entire plane's worth of people are going to be inconvenienced and delayed in another city, with a ripple effect from there. It's not like the crew needing seats were merely on a joy ride. Good grief. The doctor was COMPLETELY wrong, IMO. His number (lucky him) was drawn. Too bad, so sad. Get off the plane in a dignified way. Get your (enormous and justifiably so) compensation.

That's LIFE. I would never allow myself to be humiliated in this way and dragged off a plane.

As many other people have said, this was grossly mishandled and you are completely missing the point. Of course United has the legal right to refuse service to anyone they choose. BUT United could have told the passengers BEFORE boarding. They could have transported their crew in another way such as renting a vehicle. He was merely a paying customer already settled in his seat who they picked at random and he said "no". How is there any scenario in which dragging him off the plane is justified? There are so many other ways United could and should have handled this situation that would have cost them much much less than this fiasco. United is first and foremost a business and the way they treat their customers is being seen by everyone around the world.

Have you seen the video? It is sick and the other passengers are obviously disturbed by what is happening as well.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

And if he put up such a stink why not move on to the next person. Why did it have to be him?? Offer up some compensation? You mean they couldn't offer $500-1000 and no one would have taken the bait? I doubt it.

 

[mnrose]

The thing that most of us are saying (or at least me) is that yes we all know the airline has the right to bump you but why did it get this far. They knew they didn't have the seats but still bored the whole plane. Sorry once I'm sitting yeah I'm going to make a stink that you now tell me I have to deplane and not leave until tomorrow. They could have involuntary bumped people before boarding.

It's not clear from what I've read the order of what happened. But, whatever, once you are asked to leave the plane, you LEAVE THE PLANE. You can ***** and rant and moan and complain once that happens all you want. Why in the WORLD would you create a bigger scene with the possibility of physical harm to you and other passengers? I am 100% convinced he was asked politely to leave and he refused, causing the need for security to become involved. His fault everything that happened after that. Period.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

They knew they didn't have the seats but still bored the whole plane.

I think this is where the problem is. United knew they had to put the standby flight crew onboard that flight. Even if the flight was oversold, there are parameters for how far ahead you must be there to actually board your flight. If you don't meet that time limit, you can get bumped.

While I don't know if everyone onboard that was already seated had met the time requirement, I take that to mean the last 4 (or however many seats it was they needed) people to board shouldn't have been boarded. Those would be the ones bumped (and, hopefully, given some sort of monetary thank you).

 

[mummabear]

It was a United flight, not American. I understand why airlines oversell flights. People miss flights and it costs them a lot of money to fly half full planes. I'm surprised they had such a hard time getting people to give up their seats for vouchers. It's a sucky situation all around. They should have made the last four people to check in stay behind instead of a random draw.

Doesn't matter if they fly half full of people if they are all sold-does it matter if 10 pay and 10 show up or 10 pay and 5 show up? Doesn't change the airlines profit/loss.
It's only because they want to gamble on the fact that some won't show up, and at the end of the day when that doesn't happen and when 100% show up the airline has an issue-and they make that issue the passengers problem. That isn't right. And it's part of the industry that should change.
If I have paid for a ticket I have a right to expect beyond weather or mechanical fault that I should have my seat.
If they want to oversell, they should sell gambling seats at a lesser cost...oh wait a minute they do it's called standby.

They never should have boarded that plane until they had officially bumped people (well, they shouldn't have oversold at all or they should have planned better for their crew, but whatever). This should have been done as far in advance as possible. That being said, once the decision was made that he would be bumped and the flight crew asked him to disembark the plane, he really should have done so. Yes, it is shabby treatment of a customer. Yes, he should complain up the chain as far as he can. Refusing the instructions of a flight crew and airport security personnel though is just asking for trouble. They are very, very serious about such matters. Yeah, United are the real cause of the problem, but resisting in that way really wasn't going to help.

It's called protesting. I likely would have done the same thing. The passenger had every right to be on that plane.
If United can't manage a simple task of holding 4 seats for their staff before selling out the plane that's their problem not his.

The man was able to get back on the plane after initially being taken off — his face was bloody and he seemed disoriented, Bridges said, and he ran to the back of the plane. Passengers asked to get off the plane as a medical crew came on to deal with the passenger, she said, and passengers were then told to go back to the gate so that officials could "tidy up" the plane before taking off.

I wonder if he got a concussion.

Okay it was wrong for them to bump him. Why wouldn't he just get up and leave the plane on his own. He was just adding to the problem I think. After he got off the plane he could raise cain at customer service. Seems like he been carried was drama he created.

So it are happy to live in a world where you can pay for goods or service and the provider at anytime can take them away for no good reason?

Yeah, but the thing is, the legging thing was justified and the person who called them out on it had no idea what they were talking about.

I think their system for selecting bumps is poorly set up, but I also doubt the guy "had" to get back. I think it's incredibly likely that he escalated the situation. Everyone pretty much knows that they're entitled to get where they're going. Not when they'll get there, or the seat arrangements, or a specific kind of snack. I don't like United, but that's a pretty universal concept when it comes to the airlines.

It's not up to you to decide if he "had" to get back. He booked, paid and arrived on time for his flight.
He "had" to be there as much as anyone else of the flight including the staff they were bumping him for.

If it was so mission critical for their staff to have those seats they should have booked them like everyone else.

 

[mnrose]

The thing that most of us are saying (or at least me) is that yes we all know the airline has the right to bump you but why did it get this far. They knew they didn't have the seats but still bored the whole plane. Sorry once I'm sitting yeah I'm going to make a stink that you now tell me I have to deplane and not leave until tomorrow. They could have involuntary bumped people before boarding.

Yes, we can have a discussion if you want about whether they asked him before he boarded (don't know that), and they probably screwed up royally by not getting it handled before boarding (or they miscounted and only discovered the error later), but my point is that the whole ruckus was caused by the doctor's failure to obey the orders of a uniformed crew member. Yes, United screwed up. Yes, they owe him compensation (and a lot of it). But the whole "security dragged me out" was HIS fault. Obey the instructions of a uniformed crew member is the number one rule of airline travel. We can't have a system where people get to decide whether to obey, can we?

I have complete sympathy for people bumped from flights (it has happened to me). It is NOT pleasant. It is always wildly inconvenient. But, I sure as heck am going to be dignified about it (although you can bet your bottom dollar I will complain and demand every dime of compensation to which I am entitled). I am NOT going to cause a scene.

I would argue that it got that far because the passenger was uncooperative and failed to comply with the order of a uniformed crew member to leave the plane.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

We know Disney overbooks also. Imagine if they let you into your room and then came back and said "sorry. you need to vacate the room. You've been bumped."

 

[mnrose]

Doesn't matter if they fly half full of people if they are all sold-does it matter if 10 pay and 10 show up or 10 pay and 5 show up? Doesn't change the airlines profit/loss.
It's only because they want to gamble on the fact that some won't show up, and at the end of the day when that doesn't happen and when 100% show up the airline has an issue-and they make that issue the passengers problem. That isn't right. And it's part of the industry that should change.
If I have paid for a ticket I have a right to expect beyond weather or mechanical fault that I should have my seat.
If they want to oversell, they should sell gambling seats at a lesser cost...oh wait a minute they do it's called standby.



It's called protesting. I likely would have done the same thing. The passenger had every right to be on that plane.
If United can't manage a simple task of holding 4 seats for their staff before selling out the plane that's their problem not his.



I wonder if he got a concussion.



So it are happy to live in a world where you can pay for goods or service and the provider at anytime can take them away for no good reason?



It's not up to you to decide if he "had" to get back. He booked, paid and arrived on time for his flight.
He "had" to be there as much as anyone else of the flight including the staff they were bumping him for.

If it was so mission critical for their staff to have those seats they should have booked them like everyone else.

You might want to read your favorite airline's "Contract of Carriage" to see what the terms are. There is NO guarantee in airline travel. Period. Not a flight. Not a seat. Nothing. They are within their legal rights to deny you boarding (and if involuntary, you will get a sizable refund that exceeds what you paid for your seat). You don't have to like it, of course, and you are 100% free to choose a different airline, or refuse to fly altogether.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

You might want to read your favorite airline's "Contract of Carriage" to see what the terms are. There is NO guarantee in airline travel. Period. Not a flight. Not a seat. Nothing. They are within their legal rights to deny you boarding (and if involuntary, you will get a sizable refund that exceeds what you paid for your seat). You don't have to like it, of course, and you are 100% free to choose a different airline, or refuse to fly altogether.

I really get what you are saying. It sucks but it happens and they are protected by contract. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, we can have a discussion if you want about whether they asked him before he boarded (don't know that), and they probably screwed up royally by not getting it handled before boarding (or they miscounted and only discovered the error later), but my point is that the whole ruckus was caused by the doctor's failure to obey the orders of a uniformed crew member. Yes, United screwed up. Yes, they owe him compensation (and a lot of it). But the whole "security dragged me out" was HIS fault. Obey the instructions of a uniformed crew member is the number one rule of airline travel. We can't have a system where people get to decide whether to obey, can we?

I have complete sympathy for people bumped from flights (it has happened to me). It is NOT pleasant. It is always wildly inconvenient. But, I sure as heck am going to be dignified about it (although you can bet your bottom dollar I will complain and demand every dime of compensation to which I am entitled). I am NOT going to cause a scene.

If he hadn't caused a scene, would there be such a big backlash against United for their policy? You even said upthread this happens daily. Shouldn't an airline be blasted for having a poor policy?

 

[KayKayJS]

Yes, we can have a discussion if you want about whether they asked him before he boarded (don't know that), and they probably screwed up royally by not getting it handled before boarding (or they miscounted and only discovered the error later), but my point is that the whole ruckus was caused by the doctor's failure to obey the orders of a uniformed crew member. Yes, United screwed up. Yes, they owe him compensation (and a lot of it). But the whole "security dragged me out" was HIS fault. Obey the instructions of a uniformed crew member is the number one rule of airline travel. We can't have a system where people get to decide whether to obey, can we?

I have complete sympathy for people bumped from flights (it has happened to me). It is NOT pleasant. It is always wildly inconvenient. But, I sure as heck am going to be dignified about it (although you can bet your bottom dollar I will complain and demand every dime of compensation to which I am entitled). I am NOT going to cause a scene.

That's your opinion and your right to continue to fly with this specific line.

I personally will never give a dime of my money to united again. Regardless of the law, it's wrong to forcefully remove a peaceful, paying passenger. I can't even imagine if someone put their hands on me or my child. I'm sure these situations happen often and you don't see people being physically assaulted- because there's a better way to handle it. This is 100% on United for creating the situation.

Something being legal does not make it okay or the right thing to do.

 

[BrianL]

It's called protesting. I likely would have done the same thing. The passenger had every right to be on that plane.
If United can't manage a simple task of holding 4 seats for their staff before selling out the plane that's their problem not his.

Well, he can protest and obviously did, but he does not have any actual right to be on the plane. The airline who owns and operates that plane had asked him to disembark. They have the right to ask him, and then force him, to do so. He could be found to be violating Federal Law by not complying. Now, if that's worth it to him to make that point, well, hey, best of luck with that. Airports are highly secured areas and for good reason. Escalating matters with airport police simply isn't going to lead to any positive outcomes for you.

I do agree that the behavior of United is also outrageously poor in regards to these customers forcibly bumped. They planned very poorly and it bit them. They were unwilling to keep increasing the compensation or whatever led them to selecting random people. It's pretty bad, and terribly handled by the looks of things. However, they did not violate any laws. This is a risk of buying airline tickets and they are the ones within their rights to do what they did. Don't like it? Write your congressman to get the appropriate laws and regulations changed, and more importantly, until that happens, don't buy a ticket on any airline.

 

[Magpie]

I put the blame on the airline's shoulders in this one. It doesn't matter if the man who was injured should have been more co-operative and left the plane peacefully.

The airline staff allowed people to board the plane and occupy their seats, knowing full well that some of these people would then have to be ejected from the plane. They should have made their selection before anyone got on the plane. It's basic crowd management.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that a passenger might protest being removed from a seat that they had not only paid for, but had been allowed to place their derriere in (not to mention, having their luggage loaded onto the plane!). The airline created the conditions that led to the violent incident. They're the ones responsible.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out, in the days to come. Ideally, I'd like to see some protocols put in place to prevent this sort of incident from happening again.

 

[Westcoastwild]

And if he put up such a stink why not move on to the next person. Why did it have to be him?? Offer up some compensation? You mean they couldn't offer $500-1000 and no one would have taken the bait? I doubt it.

Because at that point, it had to be someone. You let someone say "no" to involuntary bumping, everyone will say no. There are only a few times I have been in the situation that I could take the money and not worry about being back. If I was involuntarily bumped, well, at least I can tell my boss/pet sitter/family member that it was not optional. I'll still be mad because it will still be an inconvenience. However, I don't get why this guy had to be carried off the plane. It doesn't sound like he was acting rationally. They had every right to bump someone for this flight crew. The guy had every right to complain and to get compensated under their rules- but he had no right to refuse to deplane.

I'm not defending United. They are as far as I'm concerned the worst of the worst when it comes to customer service. But involuntary bumping is standard with every airline, and the guy caused his own injuries when he refused to deplane- and then tried to reboard. It's weird, entitled behavior.