Union may file a greivance against an Eagle Scout for taking their jobs* WITH AUDIO

[Carly_Roach]

I don't see where the grievance is?

It is not like the city wen out and hired the boy to do the job. The city laid of 39 workers because they probably don't have the money to pay them. A boy comes along and volunteers to take care of something that has been neglected for years it seems (possibly due to funding?). If the city paid the kid to do the job, I could see the complaint. The city had no money to keep the worker's on the payroll, and no money was sent out for this job to be done.

Because if they don't file a grievance it sets a precidence that they're accepting of alternative methods the city has allowed for work being done by others rather than the 39 union members who were laid off. It's a formal protest.

Another thing has occurred to me: while what the Boy Scout did is nice, there's nothing in place for maintaining the work done for years into the future. He built a path, he gets his badge, and then he moves on. There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable.

 

[shrubber]

Because if they don't file a grievance it sets a precidence that they're accepting of alternative methods the city has allowed for work being done by others rather than the 39 union members who were laid off. It's a formal protest.

Another thing has occurred to me: while what the Boy Scout did is nice, there's nothing in place for maintaining the work done for years into the future. He built a path, he gets his badge, and then he moves on. There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable.

Perhaps you should consider that if a 17 year old could volunteer and do the work for free, that the 39 SEIU 'workers' were not needed in the first place.

In what sort of bizzaro world do we live in where people expect union workers to be paid for work that can be done for free?

 

[shrubber]

Another thing has occurred to me: while what the Boy Scout did is nice, there's nothing in place for maintaining the work done for years into the future. He built a path, he gets his badge, and then he moves on. There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable.

Oh brother....
First of all, Eagle is much more than a badge, I'll guess my explaining it to you would be fruitless.
And secondly, are you implying that a Boy Scout has created a path that may/will become a hazard in the future? Shame on you.

 

[CowboyCO]

Because if they don't file a grievance it sets a precidence that they're accepting of alternative methods the city has allowed for work being done by others rather than the 39 union members who were laid off. It's a formal protest.

Another thing has occurred to me: while what the Boy Scout did is nice, there's nothing in place for maintaining the work done for years into the future. He built a path, he gets his badge, and then he moves on. There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable.

Maybe somebody else will create a "Friends of the Boy Scout Trail" group and volunteer to maintain the trail. We have a "Friends of the Playground above the Clouds" group that annually goes and strips, stains and repairs a local school park. There's another group that volunteers for an annual park clean-up day as well. I think they look at it as a way to allow the city to direct funds to basic services when the community and it's citizens are willing to step up and take care of some things.

 

[NikitaZee]

Oh brother....
First of all, Eagle is much more than a badge, I'll guess my explaining it to you would be fruitless.
And secondly, are you implying that a Boy Scout has created a path that may/will become a hazard in the future? Shame on you.

It didn't look to me like she was implying any such thing.

 

[shrubber]

Maybe somebody else will create a "Friends of the Boy Scout Trail" group and volunteer to maintain the trail. We have a "Friends of the Playground above the Clouds" group that annually goes and strips, stains and repairs a local school park. There's another group that volunteers for an annual park clean-up day as well. I think they look at it as a way to allow the city to direct funds to basic services when the community and it's citizens are willing to step up and take care of some things.

Allentown aready has a volunteer parks program
http://allentownparks.org/

Funny how the SEIU doesn't seem to all bent out of shape from them

 

[shrubber]

It didn't look to me like she was implying any such thing.

There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable

Really, It does to me......

 

[SAHDad]

Allentown aready has a volunteer parks program
http://allentownparks.org/

Funny how the SEIU doesn't seem to all bent out of shape from them

And heck, if there wasn't a volunteer parks program, I would bet that there is likely a local Boy Scout or Girl Scout troop that does trail maintenance. It's a fairly common (non-Eagle) service project.

 

[NikitaZee]

There's no workers in place to maintain that path or keep it safe and walkable

Really, It does to me......

So why the 'shame on you'? Just because an Eagle Scout did the initial work, she questions who will maintain it in the future? She's not doing a character assassination on anyone, just asking a question.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Perhaps you should consider that if a 17 year old could volunteer and do the work for free, that the 39 SEIU 'workers' were not needed in the first place.

In what sort of bizzaro world do we live in where people expect union workers to be paid for work that can be done for free?

By that logic all of our cities, no matter what size, should have volunteer firefighters.

Oh brother....
First of all, Eagle is much more than a badge, I'll guess my explaining it to you would be fruitless.
And secondly, are you implying that a Boy Scout has created a path that may/will become a hazard in the future? Shame on you.

Actually shame on you, shrubber, for trying to put words in my mouth. And no, you don't have to explain Eagle Scout and badge to me. Thanks to the last eight years of life in these United States, a lot of my views on situations have to do with survival. Boy Scout rankings have very little to do with survival and being an Eagle Scout doesn't put food on the table.

I will always side with those who have to worry about food, clothing and shelter before I consider those who have to worry about hobbies or extracurricular activities.

Maybe somebody else will create a "Friends of the Boy Scout Trail" group and volunteer to maintain the trail. We have a "Friends of the Playground above the Clouds" group that annually goes and strips, stains and repairs a local school park. There's another group that volunteers for an annual park clean-up day as well. I think they look at it as a way to allow the city to direct funds to basic services when the community and it's citizens are willing to step up and take care of some things.

That would be a nice gesture and is a perfect project for a community. However, there's nothing to keep that kind of a ball rolling if/when people decide to drop out of the project.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

I don't see where the grievance is?

It is not like the city wen out and hired the boy to do the job. The city laid of 39 workers because they probably don't have the money to pay them. A boy comes along and volunteers to take care of something that has been neglected for years it seems (possibly due to funding?). If the city paid the kid to do the job, I could see the complaint. The city had no money to keep the worker's on the payroll, and no money was sent out for this job to be done.

And again, what everyone continues to ignore - this project was not something that was currently being done by the union workers. There is no indication that it ever would have been done by union workers in the near future. Knowing the City of Allentown and some of its financial state, money would not have been set aside to complete this project with or without union workers at all anytime soon.

I know the park. It's about 1 1/2 miles from my house. It's off of a very busy 2 lane, winding street that people seem to not be able to drive on under 50 mph (posted speed limit is 35).

What Kevin did, apparently, was to create an entire section of the trail connecting one pre-existing section of the trail with another. Until he did that, anyone walking the trail would need to walk out of the woods and along the side of the road (no real shoulder of the road - it's fairly narrow) until they could re-enter the woods to pick up the trail again.

This was not simply picking up the litter strewn about the trail. This was not simply a trail that had been neglected or that the city stopped paying union workers to work on. This was blazing a brand new path through what had become an illegal dump over the last few years.

He cleared garbage. He created a safe place for people to walk alongside the river.

From the newspaper article:
He got the idea for the trail while taking hikes along the partially complete, 165-mile Delaware and Lehigh National Heritage Corridor. He noticed there were a few missing connections to the trail in Kimmets Lock Park, which is on the Lehigh River near Dauphin Street. He already has logged 250 hours trying to carve out a walking and biking trail along the river.

"I decided to do my part in completing this part of the trail. In that way, others could enjoy walking along the river, without having to walk on the busy road," Anderson said in an e-mail Friday.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

That would be a nice gesture and is a perfect project for a community. However, there's nothing to keep that kind of a ball rolling if/when people decide to drop out of the project.

Every spring my son's troop as well as the affiliated cub pack have a spring cleaning weekend. The boys walk the trails and pick up litter and debris that accumulated over the winter. The "Leave No Trace" program is big in our area - no matter where or when they walk, litter gets picked up.

The Boy Scouts of America have been going strong and growing in numbers over the past 100 years, thank you very much.

 

[Geoff_M]

Because if they don't file a grievance it sets a precidence that they're accepting of alternative methods the city has allowed for work being done by others rather than the 39 union members who were laid off. It's a formal protest.

Do you honestly think that this was the first time that an Eagle Scout project has benefited a city property in that town since such projects became a requirement for the rank in about 1971 and while the union has represented the city workers??? I'll guarantee that this wasn't a precedence for the city as a means for property improvement.

As for the maintenance of the new trails, then I guess the union should be happy as it's made a bit of work for their members long-term. And seeing as the park management had to green-light the project before it was started, I'm guessing that such costs were in the calculus of their decision to accept the help.

 

[shrubber]

by that logic all of our cities, no matter what size, should have volunteer firefighters.
well, in case you did not know, 73% of firefighters in america are volunteer, volunteer, go figure......
actually shame on you, shrubber, for trying to put words in my mouth.
i did not put words in your mouth,i did interpret from your comment, and i did ask you to clarify, care to do that?

and no, you don't have to explain eagle scout and badge to me. Thanks to the last eight years of life in these united states, a lot of my views on situations have to do with survival. Boy scout rankings have very little to do with survival and being an eagle scout doesn't put food on the table.
well, you are wrong here, i'll put a scouts survival skills up against a union workers anyday
i will always side with those who have to worry about food, clothing and shelter before i consider those who have to worry about hobbies or extracurricular activities.
[color="red"scouting is not a hobby[/color]
that would be a nice gesture and is a perfect project for a community. However, there's nothing to keep that kind of a ball rolling if/when people decide to drop out of the project.

3

 

[Carly_Roach]

[color="red"scouting is not a hobby[/color]

Yes.

It is.

 

[bumbershoot]

I would think the "looking into" part of it just means they are making sure he didn't get paid for his work.

In a way, I get where to union is coming from because their entire existence is to serve the needs of their members

Well, perhaps your premise is incorrect.
By being hired by the city of Allentown, they are not there to serve the needs of their members,
I would propose that they are their to serve the needs of the citizens of Allentown. Ya know, the taxpayers.

The UNION exists to serve the members, is what I think rn was saying. The union members exist, work-wise, to do their work for the city.

And secondly, are you implying that a Boy Scout has created a path that may/will become a hazard in the future? Shame on you.

Any path that is created can become a hazard. Simply having been made by a kid trying to be an Eagle Scout doesn't make it perfect for evermore. If there's no lighting, if it's not on maps, if it becomes overrun with ivy/bushes/etc, then it becomes unsafe.



It really sounds to me as though the union and the city had an agreement. And if the city was made aware of this project (which I certainly hope it was), their agreeing to it might have been going against the agreement with the union. And that's a problem! The city is the problem, not the kid (unless he didn't get the city's go-ahead to work on city property), of course.

 

[Geoff_M]

The union members were laid off. It's made a bit of work for someone, but probably not the union members. And no, I doubt this is the first time an Eagle Scout project has benefited a city property.

If there was any whiff of proof that if the trail hadn't been created as part of the a volunteer Eagle Scout project but instead would have been paid for by the city and constructed using laid off union workers, then you might have a point. Absent that, what leg does the union have to stand on in their beef?

 

[Geoff_M]

Yes.

It is.

Then you don't understand the Scouting movement.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Then you don't understand the Scouting movement.

Don't think I want to. Thanks anyway.

 

[Geoff_M]

Any path that is created can become a hazard. Simply having been made by a kid trying to be an Eagle Scout doesn't make it perfect for evermore. If there's no lighting, if it's not on maps, if it becomes overrun with ivy/bushes/etc, then it becomes unsafe.

All projects must be approved by the beneficiary before work is started. City management would have seen plans on what that Scout wanted to do. They can, and will, ask for changes before approval. My son's project (in the planning stage) is also in a city park (he wants to re-vamp a roller hockey rink). The Park Dept. representative nixed a couple of his suggested features due to maintenance and safety concerns.