Uh, oh!! Rev. Pat Robertson's talking again!!!

Geoff_M said:
In the case of Meirs, the Bush Administration talked to Dobson because he thought he would be useful to them... not because they cared what Dobson thought or sought his input. I also doubt the White House will be consulting Robertson on foreign affairs anytime soon.

Rove's apparent genius aside, I think way too much has been made of the so-called "evangelical vote". The fascination that some political pundits and many in the dead-tree media had over this notion that the "Christian Right" were a make or break issue remind me of sports fans that obssess over how one call by an official determined the outcome of a game.
I would have agreed with you up till Nov 2004. Rove plainly said that he wasn't campaigning to the independents, but to the 4 million evangelicals that sat home 4 years earlier. He said it was all about turning out the base. I thought he was bluffing until the RNC when the whole tone was to appeal to the extreme wing. But hey it worked. The margin was 3 million.

Sure they were talking to Dobson because they wanted cover from him. But that speaks to his infleunece and to the necessity of courting that group. And if you read the TNR piece, you will see that a lot of lower court appointments are vetted by them
 
mommyoeo said:
I'd doubt that. As someone who has watched the show and knows PR from my days in VA, he doesn't have very many kind things to say about GWB. He doesn't like Bush's policies, especially on Middle East peace and Israel. I doubt GWB gives him much of his time. They seem to be in different camps on many issues. I don't think either of them would find much in common and neither probably caters to the other.

Really? If you follow the link earlier in this thread to the report in the San Diego paper, no one in the Bush camp has denied that the President has consulted with Robertson. If the President isn't actively trying to find some common ground and get public support from Robertson and his followers, why consult with him? Don't forget, donations run both ways, Robertson's charity (Operation Blessings) was listed in the #2 slot on a FEMA website recommending Hurricane charities.
 

Chuck S said:
Really? If you follow the link earlier in this thread to the report in the San Diego paper, no one in the Bush camp has denied that the President has consulted with Robertson. If the President isn't actively trying to find some common ground and get public support from Robertson and his followers, why consult with him? Don't forget, donations run both ways, Robertson's charity (Operation Blessings) was listed in the #2 slot on a FEMA website recommending Hurricane charities.

Are you saying that OB was listed as the #2 place to go to for help? I'm not sure how this would support your argument so I must misunderstand...
 
I would have agreed with you up till Nov 2004. Rove plainly said that he wasn't campaigning to the independents, but to the 4 million evangelicals that sat home 4 years earlier. He said it was all about turning out the base. I thought he was bluffing until the RNC when the whole tone was to appeal to the extreme wing. But hey it worked. The margin was 3 million.
While getting out the base is always important, saying that Evangelicals are the reason that Bush sits in the White House today is like saying that Steve Bartman was the reason that the Florida Marlins were in the 2003 World Series.
 
Tigger_Magic said:
:earseek: Well, if you consider calling down hurricanes on cities, suggesting foreign leaders be "taken out", and suggesting God's wrath will fall on a city for daring to teach science (of all things) in school good things, then I suppose I can understand why one might consider Robertson to be "great." I know this is not the total of his message, but his efforts to stir the pot with his followers often overshadows anything of merit he says or does.


Well, if he really called down hurricanes, I missed that. I'd also doubt it unless I saw it. I rarely trust the news to give the whole truth on any story that could boost their ratings by making someone else look foolish.

I don't think anything he has done overshadows the goodness he does either. When we raise money to feed the poor, clothe kids and do medical procedures over seas for free, then we can throw stones at him. Meanwhile, it's a better planet for all of his hard efforts. How many thousands of people have we fed, clothed or otherwise helped?

As for calling for some leader to be assassinated, I didn't see it, but I did hear that he apologized. He was spouting off in frustration. I have thought that from time to time when I see pedophiles get out of prison and kill more kids. Sometimes the world makes people MAD and they do not respond in love, like they ought to. I think he admitted that when he said he was sorry.

I'm not saying he's perfect, just that he doing a lot more than probably 99% of his critics to make the world better. For that, and in spite of his critics, I say he's great! Not perfect, but still great because he's doing great things.
 
Tigger_Magic said:
Yet the myth continues... like the one that we're planning to take over American and institute a theocracy. Oops... did I let the secret plan slip? :rotfl2:
Hey T_M, you better watch yourself!! You may be a Republican, but you're a little too centrist to be so bold! From the jist of some of your past posts, you'll be walking the plank right along with the rest of us Lefties!! After the secret plan is instituted and the purge of evil is over, I think that Rev. Robertson, Rev. Dobson, and DawnCt1 will be the only 3 Americans left! :rotfl:
 
Geoff_M said:
While getting out the base is always important, saying that Evangelicals are the reason that Bush sits in the White House today is like saying that Steve Bartman was the reason that the Florida Marlins were in the 2003 World Series.
But that proves too much. Of course 4 million doesn't make 59 million, but it does make up a 3 million differential, so it is the "reason", much like a state with 5 seats can make the Presidency if the winner gets 271 electoral votes.

Plus they are worth more than their numbers because of organization. That's an old rule of political behavior
 
mommyoeo said:
I don't think anything he has done overshadows the goodness he does either. When we raise money to feed the poor, clothe kids and do medical procedures over seas for free, then we can throw stones at him. Meanwhile, it's a better planet for all of his hard efforts. How many thousands of people have we fed, clothed or otherwise helped?
I know a lot people on the boards have contributed greatly to vast numbers of charities.
Please tell me Mr. Robertson has not done medical procedures on people.
And in general, let's look at a group like Catholic Charities. They have done the work of angels for people worldwide. They don't call for the assassination of a nation's leader. They don't tell people that God won't be there when they need Him.
Look, many of us are doing good things--large and small. Even if we found the cure for cancer itself, it would not justify the kind of hate/divisiveness/and plain ole evil PR is spouting. :flower:
 
mommyoeo said:
Are you saying that OB was listed as the #2 place to go to for help? I'm not sure how this would support your argument so I must misunderstand...

No. I'm saying it was listed on the FEMA website as a place to SEND MONEY. One of ONLY 3 places, the Red Cross, Operation Blessing and a Food Bank. :(

NY Daily News Article
 
DisneyDotty said:
I know a lot people on the boards have contributed greatly to vast numbers of charities.
Please tell me Mr. Robertson has not done medical procedures on people.
And in general, let's look at a group like Catholic Charities. They have done the work of angels for people worldwide. They don't call for the assassination of a nation's leader. They don't tell people that God won't be there when they need Him.
Look, many of us are doing good things--large and small. Even if we found the cure for cancer itself, it would not justify the kind of hate/divisiveness/and plain ole evil PR is spouting. :flower:

I'm sure people do participate in charities. Did they start and do they oversee a charity that helps millions? Once they do, they can complain. It's very easy to sit back and criticize the people in the news, etc. who are out there changing the world while we give our measly 10-20% and feel good about ourselves.

His charity has a plain that can fly in with operating rooms, I believe. He raises the support and then funds the surgeries.

As I said, I'm sure if PR MEANT what he had said about the assassination, he'd stick by it. He has never backed down from being controversial. By admitting he was wrong, I am sure he agrees with you that he should not have said that.

I do not think he said God would not be there when they need him. God sending a punishment doesn't mean he is not there when needed. Just like I may punish my child who runs in the street after I’ve gently asked her not to over and over. I hate to punish her, but it will save her life... THAT'S LOVE! Not dong anything and letting her die a terrible death is wrong and mean. God's ways are eternal. If it meant an earthly punishment to open the eyes of people so that they are prepared for eternity, THAT'S LOVE too.

I just believe this man is being judged harshly. In any other conversation about religion, when people disagreed about morality, it seems like those on the left frequently dodge the argument by accusing people of being judgmental. Where are all the lefties now? Are any of you up tonight? :confused3 Someone is judging the morality and actions of PR and you are not telling them to be quiet. Where's the Judge Not and Don't Throw the First Stone police? :rotfl:
 
Chuck S said:
No. I'm saying it was listed on the FEMA website as a place to SEND MONEY. One of ONLY 3 places, the Red Cross, Operation Blessing and a Food Bank. :(

NY Daily News Article

Probably because they were ready with a plan for that sort of thing. Probably because their goal is to help people and they were mobilized to be able to do just that. If they had given to the Southern Baptist Disaster Relief, Catholics or Salvation Army, would you be upset? If you were getting food quicker than FEMA could give it, wouldn't you be glad someone had already worked a plan to help? I doubt those people cared what label was on the packages. I say, let it go. They are a not for profit org so no one is getting rich on it. If they can help, help them help. I don't see how it matters that they are listed on the FEMA site, or how that means they are in bed with the enemy. :confused3

:wave2:
 
mommyoeo said:
Probably because they were ready with a plan for that sort of thing. Probably because their goal is to help people and they were mobilized to be able to do just that. If they had given to the Southern Baptist Disaster Relief, Catholics or Salvation Army, would you be upset? If you were getting food quicker than FEMA could give it, wouldn't you be glad someone had already worked a plan to help? I doubt those people cared what label was on the packages. I say, let it go. They are a not for profit org so no one is getting rich on it. If they can help, help them help. I don't see how it matters that they are listed on the FEMA site, or how that means they are in bed with the enemy. :confused3

:wave2:

Surely you aren't implying that the Salvation Army, Baptist Relief and Catholic Charities were any LESS prepared than OB, or that their goal ISN'T to help people. Or that they haven't had experience with disaster plans.
 
Chuck S said:
Surely you aren't implying that the Salvation Army, Baptist Relief and Catholic Charities were any LESS prepared than OB, or that their goal ISN'T to help people. Or that they haven't had experience with disaster plans.

Nope. I happen to participate in 2 of them. I'm saying one is as good as another.
 
mommyoeo said:
Nope. I happen to participate in 2 of them. I'm saying one is as good as another.

But then why was only one featured predominately on the FEMA site? What was the selection criteria? Rapport with the President? Political Clout? It all seems to point back to PR having more influence in the administraton.
 
mommyoeo said:
Well, if he really called down hurricanes, I missed that. I'd also doubt it unless I saw it. I rarely trust the news to give the whole truth on any story that could boost their ratings by making someone else look foolish.

I don't think anything he has done overshadows the goodness he does either. When we raise money to feed the poor, clothe kids and do medical procedures over seas for free, then we can throw stones at him. Meanwhile, it's a better planet for all of his hard efforts. How many thousands of people have we fed, clothed or otherwise helped?

As for calling for some leader to be assassinated, I didn't see it, but I did hear that he apologized. He was spouting off in frustration. I have thought that from time to time when I see pedophiles get out of prison and kill more kids. Sometimes the world makes people MAD and they do not respond in love, like they ought to. I think he admitted that when he said he was sorry.

I'm not saying he's perfect, just that he doing a lot more than probably 99% of his critics to make the world better. For that, and in spite of his critics, I say he's great! Not perfect, but still great because he's doing great things.


First, I was going to say I was speechless, but I can't let this go.
Here's the quote about Dover, PA (edited to correct to PA)
"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Robertson said on his daily television show broadcast from Virginia, "The 700 Club."
"And don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help because he might not be there," he said.


Your remark about pedophiles strikes me as innappropriate.
After re-reading it I think I understand what you're trying
to say but you do a great disservice to the children of the
world affected by such evil people when you trivialize the
attacks against them as merely "frustration."

And your analogy that PR is personally responsible for all
the "wonderful" things the 700 Club has done and therefore
if he says or does something reprehensible it should be ignored,
reminds me of the dog-poop brownie story:

A brother & sister, who are tweens and teens, are angry
that their parent won't let them go see an R-rated movie.
Their reasoning is that it's "only" rated R because of a little foul language,
their friends have seen it and it's "not that sexy."
The father still says no.
The next night, he invites them down to the kitchen for a snack.
He's made some brownies that smell yummy, and they can't wait.
As each of the kids goes to take their first bite,
the father asks, "Did I tell you the special name for these?"
They say, "No."
The father says, "Oh, they're called dog-poop brownies!"
The kids throw their brownies down and start gagging,
imagining how horrible they would have tasted if they'd
actually taken that first bight.
Of course, they're angry at their dad, asking him why he
would make them eat anything like that?
He said, "First, I didn't make you eat them, you wanted to.
Second, I told you what they were called before you took a bite.
Third, why wouldn't you eat them, anway?
After all, they only had a little dog poop in them,
hardly any to notice. They weren't that poopy
- why would you not want to eat them?"

Yes, they got the message.
 
Let me just say that my remarks about pedophiles are tempered on who is reading this. My point is that when someone overpowers another and takes advantage of them (be it a person or a country) it makes people say things like, "If I could get my hands on them...". I have said MUCH worse about the pedophiles on the news. The only thing is that I make no apologies because I mean what I say. He spouted off and apologized because he DIDN’T.

I didn't mean to create an analogy that would further divide us. I figured we'd all remember feeling or saying terrible things when we saw girl after girl being raped and murdered. I am sure that very anger is what PR was feeling and he spouted off. He shouldn’t have done that and that is not a point I argue, nor does he.

There are times in the Bible that God lets people lie in the beds they have made. He is not a genie in a bottle that is brought out only to rescue people. I think PR's point is that. If you don't want God in your life, get prepared for life without God. He doesn't make anyone love him or want him in their life. The Bible says over and over that as Israel turned from God, they were in danger. When we step outside of God's will, we may see that we also step outside of his protection sometimes. We can see this in many, many instances in the Bible. God always uses bad things for good and to bring about a plan of showing his love in an eternal way. People's prayers of physical rescue are sometimes not granted. Now whether or not the city you spoke of has done that or not, who knows?! I do think it's pretty bold of PR to suggest that. I'd like to think there are many god-fearing people up there, and in every city.

I'm not trying to make an argument out of anything, so I sincerely hope I'm not coming across like that.

Enjoying plowing through all of this with you all...
:)
 
mommyoeo said:
I'm sure people do participate in charities. Did they start and do they oversee a charity that helps millions? Once they do, they can complain. It's very easy to sit back and criticize the people in the news, etc. who are out there changing the world while we give our measly 10-20% and feel good about ourselves.

I guess I don't understand your point here. Do you mean that because Pat Robertson has "started and oversees a charity that helps millions" we should overlook every hurtful/hateful remark he makes?
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. A man such as he who acts as a (religious!) leader for millions of people should not be making such comments. He needs to be accountable as much as the rest of us who "give our measly 10-20%." And BTW, for some people, 10-20% is hardly measly. But maybe I just don't get "Christianity" anymore... :sad1:
 
arminnie said:
Louis Farrakan

Louis Farrakan?

What the hell does Louis Farrakan have to do with the Democratic Party?

What Democratic big-wig consults Louis Farrakan?

When was the last time Louis Farrakan was consulted on policy or asked for his recomendations or had his vote and the vote of his supporters solicited?

You Republican/Bush/Pat Robertson supporters are grasping at straws, and by the looks of things, are ready to fall into the drink.
 

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