UGH!!! Insurance Question

[Disneyfan1977]

After a long day of jury duty, I was getting gas and just pulling away from the pump when a lady didn't see me driving and nailed the side of my car. Luckily, my car took the hit really well.

She was very apologetic and gave me her insurance info. My car has mainly scratches and a small dent. My dad has always been able to get paint scratches off and fix dents.

So my question is (and please don't flame me )can we pocket the cash and get my dad to fix the car? Reason being, we just have just been really tight on money and could use the extra money. I have talked to the adjuster and they are coming out to my work tomorrow to look at the damage. I think I heard him say they would "pay me" but I wasn't sure and I didn't want to ask....

Anyone????

 

[MommaSnowwhite]

We did that once. Some hit my car and we took it into have an estimate - they paid me on the spot and we paid off other things. The damage was not that bad and the car was paid for. If you have a loan it may affect your payment - the lien holder may require you to get it fixed.

 

[pixiedustaholic]

We did that one time. The estimate was $700 or so but the damage was barely noticable. The insurance company made the check out to us and not the body shop the estimate was from. The vehicle was not paid for at the time but there were no issues with the lienholder.

Another time when a girl rear ended myself and kids in my brand new van, the damage was way more and HAD to be repaired. Other driver's insurance paid for repair, medical, rental and even paid for me to replace DD's Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana concert program. ( we had gone to the concert the night before & DD was looking at the program and drinking a cup of milk. Milk was EVERYWHERE! I still see spatters from time to time.) Also paid to have interior cleaned b/c of the milk. Our insurance company recommended that we also ask for a depreciation settlement for the amount the damage depreciated my van. Ended up with an extra $2000 that I had no clue existed. Still irritates me that my brand new van was damaged and depreciated b/c of a teen driver driving with a dog in her lap....ugh! Oh, well. Everyone makes mistakes.

To answer your question, you will probably be able to "pocket" the money.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

I work for an insurance company.

If you are comfortable with insurance fraud, go ahead. You will probably never get caught. People do this all the time and never get caught and honestly, the insurance companies don't care.

The reason they don't care is this: If the car ever gets damaged again, if you can not prove that this damage was fixed and fixed to insurance guidelines, you might not get paid. If the car is totalled, you will have that $$ you used for paying bills instead of fixing your car taken off the value unless you show receipts that a registered body shop fixed your car.

 

[tasha99]

It is not fraud. You are being reimbursed for the loss of value to your car, and it is your choice whether to fix it, or have a car that is worth less. If you sold your car, you would probably get less for it if you didn't fix it.

Btw, I was in two accidents several years ago, and insurance paid both times even though I didn't fix the car after the first accident. (They even sued the unlicensed, uninsured driver who hit me the first time and gave me most of my deductible back a year later!). It was totaled in the second accident, so that may have had something to do with them being willing to pay the second time. In the first accident, I gave them an estimate from a body shop but never signed anything saying I would have it fixed. For the second accident, they sent their own adjuster out.

 

[Disneyfan1977]

I work for an insurance company.

If you are comfortable with insurance fraud, go ahead. You will probably never get caught. People do this all the time and never get caught and honestly, the insurance companies don't care.

The reason they don't care is this: If the car ever gets damaged again, if you can not prove that this damage was fixed and fixed to insurance guidelines, you might not get paid. If the car is totalled, you will have that $$ you used for paying bills instead of fixing your car taken off the value unless you show receipts that a registered body shop fixed your car.

Why so rude? I posted the message for information. Not meaning to cause fraud on anyone! Like I said my dad can do the work. I can't stand people like you on this board!!

 

[disneyin2008]

Sorry, but it is NOT fraud.

PP, What company do you work for, and what is it that you do for them? And how long ago, lol. Because in the last couple of decades now, the insurance company can NOT dictate that choice. Used to be back in the old days they wouldn't even pay you, only the repair shop directly (and they often had it done at a repair shop they had a relationship with and it didn't cost nearly as much as you would pay privately, etc.....but then again, less than honest agents/companies would also take short cuts with the repairs, blah blah blah. But a lot has changed in the decades since then, lol).


Your insurance company will tell you to get 2 or 3 quotes (some ask for 2 some ask for 3, so that depends on your insurance company). You submit those quotes to them and they will pay the lowest one. Period. They can RECOMMEND places to go (since most people have no clue where to go), but they can't force you to do so. There is certification for repair centers and you do have to choose one that has the right certification. But that's as far as they can go for requirements. You can then get the work done or not. It's your choice. If you would prefer to have the work done at the more expensive place, then you pay the difference. Of course, the wiser move would be to get more quotes done until you find ones higher than the place you want to go. It doesn't cost anything but time to get estimates, so feel free to get a dozen if you want (though that's a LOT of time, as typically even small damage can take 30-60 minutes once they get to you...waiting can be a bit as well). And no, that's not fraud either, because you have your choice of where to take your car (though it must be a licensed facility, blah blah blah, not Joe down the street or Dad). If you choose to shop around, that's your choice.

Now....the above person was sorta right in that if you don't have the work done, and the car is hit again on that side the insurance company will NOT pay to have that portion fixed. In other words, if the second strike is a foot away, they're going to deny the claim for the older part and sometimes that means the quote will be very low for the second strike because they can only estimate for that part and cannot replace the other part. For example....the first hit is on the rear bumper. The repairs would have been less expensive than replacing the part because the damage is minimal. It's ONE piece of fiberglass (or if it's an older car it might actual be metal, lol). You opt to keep the settlement and not do the repairs. Later the car is hit in almost the same place. The second hit combined with the first makes the piece unrepairable and it now needs to be replaced instead. The insurance company may opt to deny the claim because had the first repair been done then this second repair would have been less expensive because it wouldn't need replacement. Follow me? A good attorney, however, can often argue that out of denial and into a lower payment, lol. Did that quite often, lol.

Fraud would be if you told the shop that you took the car for an estimate to write it up with some padding, so that you could get extra cash. Or to include, but not write down, the repair for the other side of the car that you damaged last year and didn't report. Or, "If you make this estimate $100 more I'll give you half of that". THAT is fraud.

THe law says that you have the right to have the vehicle repaired at your choice of place. The insurance company has the right to require your estimates be at places they approve (meaning certified repair) and pay you the lesser or the estimates. Now, if you turn in your estimates and they feel they're all too high, they also have the right to an "independent estimate" meaning one at a shop of their choosing, and again, it must be certified etc, but it could come in lower than yours and that's all they'll pay.

Ok, the reality is a bit more complicated and there are lots of variables....but the long and short.....yes, you can pocket the money if you choose not to have the repairs done.

 

[disneyin2008]

It is not fraud. You are being reimbursed for the loss of value to your car, and it is your choice whether to fix it, or have a car that is worth less. If you sold your car, you would probably get less for it if you didn't fix it.

Btw, I was in two accidents several years ago, and insurance paid both times even though I didn't fix the car after the first accident. (They even sued the unlicensed, uninsured driver who hit me the first time and gave me most of my deductible back a year later!). It was totaled in the second accident, so that may have had something to do with them being willing to pay the second time. In the first accident, I gave them an estimate from a body shop but never signed anything saying I would have it fixed. For the second accident, they sent their own adjuster out.

The difference was the second accident totalled the vehicle. So they aren't looking for a repair center to do the work, they send their own adjuster out to assess it's value (before the accident of course), so they're looking at odometer, condition of the vehicle's interior, equipment on it, etc etc. And I guarantee you they'll lowball their offer to you......but you DO have the right to negotiate that payout....and to have your own "expert" valuate the vehicle, and then the negotiations can begin for something in between those two numbers, lol. Heck, even the blue book and yellow book (and others that companies use as reference) don't agree on values. NEVER accept an insurance company (yours or "theirs") first offer, and if the second comes in too quickly don't accept it either, lol. You need to KNOW what your vehicle would have been worth the hour before the accident before you accept any payment.

 

[mnasmom3]

Used to be back in the old days they wouldn't even pay you, only the repair shop directly

It's still done that way now for some. I have Citizen's insurance and am taking my car to the collision shop tomorrow for repairs done by a hit and run driver. The insurance company is sending a 2 party check to the shop. We both have to sign. I'd never be able to pull of what many off you have done. Even if it were possible, I couldn't because my car is leased, so I have to have it fixed. Darn! I figured this was the norm.....insurance paying the collision shop directly. Who knew?


OP, I'd get take the money and get Dad to fix the car. Too bad I can't do that in my case. My brother loves working on cars and could fix it for me. I'd even pay him. But he's not a collision shop, so the insurance wouldn't pay him to do the work.

 

[daleswife]

I was in an accident where a lady pulled out in front of me. I took it to my insurance adjuster and they looked at it and wrote a check out to me right on the spot and told me to take it where I wanted to and get it fixed and If I needed more to let them know. So I took it to my ASE certified Master Mechanic.....(my DH ) and he fixed it for about half the price of the check and we got to keep the rest.

 

[RyJMom]

I work for an insurance company.

If you are comfortable with insurance fraud, go ahead. You will probably never get caught. People do this all the time and never get caught and honestly, the insurance companies don't care.

The reason they don't care is this: If the car ever gets damaged again, if you can not prove that this damage was fixed and fixed to insurance guidelines, you might not get paid. If the car is totalled, you will have that $$ you used for paying bills instead of fixing your car taken off the value unless you show receipts that a registered body shop fixed your car.

You really work for an insurance company???

This in no way is insuance fraud. She deserves to be paid for her damages. If she chooses to fix her car fine but if not there is not a thing in the world wrong with keeping the money.

To OP just tell the claim rep you want a cash settlement. They will not give it a 2nd thought. They do it everyday.

 

[disneyin2008]

It's still done that way now for some. I have Citizen's insurance and am taking my car to the collision shop tomorrow for repairs done by a hit and run driver. The insurance company is sending a 2 party check to the shop. We both have to sign. I'd never be able to pull of what many off you have done. Even if it were possible, I couldn't because my car is leased, so I have to have it fixed. Darn! I figured this was the norm.....insurance paying the collision shop directly. Who knew?


OP, I'd get take the money and get Dad to fix the car. Too bad I can't do that in my case. My brother loves working on cars and could fix it for me. I'd even pay him. But he's not a collision shop, so the insurance wouldn't pay him to do the work.

Well, that may be how they are telling you it must be done, but the law says differently. Of course, there is actually another party involved in your transaction, the lease company....and THEY are probably the ones dictating how your transaction will be done. Or it's your insurance company telling you that this is how it's done and you're accepting it. But in your case it doesn't really matter unless you are positive you'll be keeping the car after your lease is over, in which case repairs aren't necessary. But if you'll be turning it in, then you definitely need to have it fixed, or you'll pay through the nose to end the lease.

But, the law is clear that the insurance company does NOT have the choice. In the case of a leased or still financed vehicle, however, the bank is also an owner of the car (actually technically is THE owner, but let's not get into semantics)....and so they too have a say. More so than the insurance company can have legally. But like so many things, people in authority tell us that's how it's done, we believe them because we aren't aware, and so they keep doing it. I wish the law required that they notify you of your legal right to choose, but that's not a part of the law. Just part of being a company with integrity.

Might be time to reconsider your choice in insurance company?

 

[summermac]

Do you own the car?

My DH's car was damaged in a freak accident but we still had a lien on it (for about $1000) and we had to have the bank's okay to have the money paid directly to us instead of directly to the garage. The bank okayed it. If they had so no, I was going to pay the car off and get the money paid directly to me anyway. LOL.

And we weren't trying to commit fraud or even really trying to pocket the money. My DH's front end was damaged and he had already been looking at a new body kit. We wanted the garage to fix the mechanical stuff & let us buy a body kit for the car later on, which we did.

The bank gave the okay, DH had to take the car to one of those drive in adjustor places and we got a check that day for the damages. $2500.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

For the OP, a lot of very valid points have been made these past few posts. I agree with about 90 percent of what has been covered so far. Here are a few more detailed factors that you might want to factor in...........

What year is your car? How many more years/miles do you plan to put on it?
How do you intend to get rid of it when you are done with it? Dealer? Private sale?

Is it a vehicle that generally has good or poor resale after it gets a few years older?

One final thought, you could kind of split the difference---have a paintless dent removal company work their magic for what might only be 100-250 bucks and have a paint shop touch up and polish the car.

It may look pretty close to normal, you will have receipts from reputable businesses, and you should still have something left to buy your next set of tires.

In our case, 2 years ago,our 2002 domestic sedan with 85,000 had medium damage to the front bumper when a guy backed in to us in a parking lot. We buffed out that damage best we could and live with the bruised front end. The car now has 140,000 miles on it and has no substantial resale value anymore regardless of its damage. The insurance check has been used to pay for the 90k and 120k service as well as for back brakes and 4 tires.

The car was paid off in 2005, so all this happened to a car we owned outright.

 

[ZachnElli]

I work in insurance and we do pay the body shop directly. I think everyone needs to remember insurance laws vary greatly from state to state. We also don't send you out to 2-3 body shops for quotes. We talk directly to the body shop and they can email the estimate and the pictures, yes pictures, no adjuster either! They only send an adjuster when it's a very serious accident or it's a body shop that refuses to work with insurance companies, but most here work with us. Heck, they get paid faster that way!

As for the original question, my company would pay you and they would ask if you were really going to repair it. If you don't and you got into another accident, they would subtract that $700 (plus your deductible, if your at fault) if it's in the same area or totaled. Of course if your not at fault in a subsequent accident, the other company may have no knowledge of previous damages unrepaired.

 

[Disneyfan1977]

We've decided to just have it fixed by a body shop. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I work for an insurance company.

If you are comfortable with insurance fraud, go ahead.

Fraud? Really? Interesting. Let me check when I get to work.

OP - is your father qualified to repair your vehicle? I can't remember the exact wording of the documentation you will get from your insurance company, but it's something to the effect of "if you have your car repaired by one of our recommended faciliities, we guarantee the cost, and if additional damage is found they will fix that and we will pay for it. If you choose to have your vehicle fixed somewhere else, we can't promise it can be done for our estimate" and I don't remember what the disclaimer is about additional damage found.

You want to be entirely safe? Pay your father a dollar.

Fraud? Please.

 

[disneyin2008]

I work in insurance and we do pay the body shop directly. I think everyone needs to remember insurance laws vary greatly from state to state. We also don't send you out to 2-3 body shops for quotes. We talk directly to the body shop and they can email the estimate and the pictures, yes pictures, no adjuster either! They only send an adjuster when it's a very serious accident or it's a body shop that refuses to work with insurance companies, but most here work with us. Heck, they get paid faster that way!

As for the original question, my company would pay you and they would ask if you were really going to repair it. If you don't and you got into another accident, they would subtract that $700 (plus your deductible, if your at fault) if it's in the same area or totaled. Of course if your not at fault in a subsequent accident, the other company may have no knowledge of previous damages unrepaired.

Insurance laws do vary from state to state, however, the national laws are the ones I'm referring to.....that you as the insured have the choice of where to take your car to be repaired or to not have it repaired at all. And yes, many (maybe even most) repair shops CAN email estimates/photos directly to your insurance company, but only if you request that it be done that way. They'll also give you the nice paper ones that you can present to the claims department if you prefer.

OP, hopefully you've gotten the answer to your question and I fear that this thread now is going to turn into a bit of a semantics discussion. Yes, each insurance company has their own way of doing things....heck, even with the national companies, each individual office may do things slightly differently, but nearly 2 decades in the legal business assures me that they aren't always working in your best interest, nor telling you everything you ought be told. As a consumer you need to familiarize yourself with the laws, don't expect the insurance company to do so. Their objective is to keep as much of the money as they can. Rest assured that if they pay the repair shop directly it is NOT the same amount that you as a customer would have paid. And if you are trusting their estimates of the worth of the vehicle you are not likely getting as much as you're entitled to receive. BUT....if you are satisified with the amounts offered, then go for it. If not, question, question, question....

Ok, I think I'm done with this thread because as I said, it appears to be ready to dive into a semantics discussion. Question, question, question.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

Why so rude? I posted the message for information. Not meaning to cause fraud on anyone! Like I said my dad can do the work. I can't stand people like you on this board!!

I wasn't rude.

I work for an insurance company. I answered your question.

The insurance company pays you for the damage to your car. If you choose to not fix the car and use the money for your car for other things, yes, that is fraud, just not on a large level and I see it come back to bite people every single day of my life while at work.

If you ask a question on a public forum, be prepared for answers you don't want to hear.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

Sorry, but it is NOT fraud.

PP, What company do you work for, and what is it that you do for them? And how long ago, lol. Because in the last couple of decades now, the insurance company can NOT dictate that choice. Used to be back in the old days they wouldn't even pay you, only the repair shop directly (and they often had it done at a repair shop they had a relationship with and it didn't cost nearly as much as you would pay privately, etc.....but then again, less than honest agents/companies would also take short cuts with the repairs, blah blah blah. But a lot has changed in the decades since then, lol).


Your insurance company will tell you to get 2 or 3 quotes (some ask for 2 some ask for 3, so that depends on your insurance company). You submit those quotes to them and they will pay the lowest one. Period. They can RECOMMEND places to go (since most people have no clue where to go), but they can't force you to do so. There is certification for repair centers and you do have to choose one that has the right certification. But that's as far as they can go for requirements. You can then get the work done or not. It's your choice. If you would prefer to have the work done at the more expensive place, then you pay the difference. Of course, the wiser move would be to get more quotes done until you find ones higher than the place you want to go. It doesn't cost anything but time to get estimates, so feel free to get a dozen if you want (though that's a LOT of time, as typically even small damage can take 30-60 minutes once they get to you...waiting can be a bit as well). And no, that's not fraud either, because you have your choice of where to take your car (though it must be a licensed facility, blah blah blah, not Joe down the street or Dad). If you choose to shop around, that's your choice.

Now....the above person was sorta right in that if you don't have the work done, and the car is hit again on that side the insurance company will NOT pay to have that portion fixed. In other words, if the second strike is a foot away, they're going to deny the claim for the older part and sometimes that means the quote will be very low for the second strike because they can only estimate for that part and cannot replace the other part. For example....the first hit is on the rear bumper. The repairs would have been less expensive than replacing the part because the damage is minimal. It's ONE piece of fiberglass (or if it's an older car it might actual be metal, lol). You opt to keep the settlement and not do the repairs. Later the car is hit in almost the same place. The second hit combined with the first makes the piece unrepairable and it now needs to be replaced instead. The insurance company may opt to deny the claim because had the first repair been done then this second repair would have been less expensive because it wouldn't need replacement. Follow me? A good attorney, however, can often argue that out of denial and into a lower payment, lol. Did that quite often, lol.

Fraud would be if you told the shop that you took the car for an estimate to write it up with some padding, so that you could get extra cash. Or to include, but not write down, the repair for the other side of the car that you damaged last year and didn't report. Or, "If you make this estimate $100 more I'll give you half of that". THAT is fraud.

THe law says that you have the right to have the vehicle repaired at your choice of place. The insurance company has the right to require your estimates be at places they approve (meaning certified repair) and pay you the lesser or the estimates. Now, if you turn in your estimates and they feel they're all too high, they also have the right to an "independent estimate" meaning one at a shop of their choosing, and again, it must be certified etc, but it could come in lower than yours and that's all they'll pay.

Ok, the reality is a bit more complicated and there are lots of variables....but the long and short.....yes, you can pocket the money if you choose not to have the repairs done.

1. I am not posting the name of my employer on a public forum. I would strongly suggest that no one in their right mind do that. I will say I work for a small, MA based company.

2. I am a senior claims examiner and I deal primarily with high fraud accounts. For example: people who stage accidents to get the money, people who report that they were hit while parked when they were clearly not parked to avoid surcharges, people who have legit accidents several times a year but never seem to repair the cars.


3. "Your insurance company will tell you to get 2 or 3 quotes (some ask for 2 some ask for 3, so that depends on your insurance company). You submit those quotes to them and they will pay the lowest one. Period. "

This is absolutely not true. The company I work for has never done this. You need to go to an insurance approved appraiser and that this the figure that gets used. We routinely have people submit shop appraisals after they have the work done, and they are often denied because they circumvented insurance standards.

You get an appraisal. You get that appraisal to a shop (a registered shop of your choice, or one the company recommends). The shop calls the appraiser if more work is needed.


4. If you follow all of the above steps and choose to take your car to an unlicensed, unregistered shop, you run the risk of your claim being denied, or at least no further payments being made.

Perhaps this is different in other states?

5. "THAT is fraud."

That is one type of fraud. As I said, I deal with high fraud accounts. Fraud takes many forms. In many of the forms of fraud, the person's car is hit & they do have damage. It's how they report the damage and their intent for the payout that turns it into fraud.