UGGGGG!!! My DS school is going to strike!!

[momof2inPA]

Some of these attitudes are what drive good teachers out of teaching and on to higher paying and less stressful jobs. My first teaching job paid $16500 yr. That was 10 yrs ago. Not all areas of the country pay $40-70k for experienced teachers. By the way, I also had a masters degree at the time. My federal taxes that year put me below waht was considered poverty taxes!!! I also had a class of 36 kids with no assistant. I don't know any teachers who only work from 8-3:00. You can't survive if you do. When do papers get graded, new assignments get planned, parent phone calls made, meeting and conferences fit in. I could go on and on.
Teachers work very hard because they love to teach. They wouldn't be there otherwise. Please support your teachers!!!!

$16,500 and 36 kids per class-- that's shameful.

 

[noodleknitter]

Why would they "bag" the union? That doesn't make any sense. Teachers have made great strides in pay and benefits because of the mere fact that there IS a teacher's union. There's strength in numbers, expecially for negotiation.

The administrators all go to the same negotiating training programs, which teach them to hold out on the contract until the teachers have to strike or give in to practically no raises. These training programs should be ignored, and people should behave like human beings. Locking both side in a room until a contract is reached sounds like a great idea.

My opinion is that this is not how professionals behave. They whine about the lack of respect, and then pull crap like this. This is not the way to gain support from anyone, except possible the kids, who are usually fed a bunch of BS/union propaganda before the strike.

My heart just doesn't break over the issue of raises. Times are rough for everyone right now. That is life. Suck it up like everyone else.

eta: OP, I hope everything turns out for you! It just stinks that something like this can throw off plans!

 

[taximomfor4]

My opinion is that this is not how professionals behave. They whine about the lack of respect, and then pull crap like this. This is not the way to gain support from anyone, except possible the kids, who are usually fed a bunch of BS/union propaganda before the strike.

My heart just doesn't break over the issue of raises. Times are rough for everyone right now. That is life. Suck it up like everyone else.

eta: OP, I hope everything turns out for you! It just stinks that something like this can throw off plans!

I don't know anyone else personally who has taken pay freezes/pay cuts every year for 4 straight years. Perhaps there are others out there, but not anyone I know.

 

[taximomfor4]

My opinion is that this is not how professionals behave. They whine about the lack of respect, and then pull crap like this. This is not the way to gain support from anyone, except possible the kids, who are usually fed a bunch of BS/union propaganda before the strike.

My heart just doesn't break over the issue of raises. Times are rough for everyone right now. That is life. Suck it up like everyone else.

eta: OP, I hope everything turns out for you! It just stinks that something like this can throw off plans!

NOT saying I think strikes are the way to go. I just don't know how a teacher whose school votes to strike would refuse. I am not the most knowledgeable about this, but it DOES go to a vote and the majority does rule. DH's fellow teachers have voted down a strike 2 yrs in a row now, and accepted the pay cuts/freezes instead. But at some point that is no longer the best option. I don't know what is.

 

[noodleknitter]

I don't know anyone else personally who has taken pay freezes/pay cuts every year for 4 straight years. Perhaps there are others out there, but not anyone I know.

My husband works for OU. They have been under a pay freeze for 2 years. Northern Ohio must be doing one heck of a lot better than the southeastern quarter. Pay freezes and lay-offs are the order of the day. Folks are thankful to have jobs. period.

Just saw your second post. I know that it is almost impossible to buck the unions, and strikes. I think it is a no win situation for so many.

 

[momof2inPA]

My opinion is that this is not how professionals behave. They whine about the lack of respect, and then pull crap like this. This is not the way to gain support from anyone, except possible the kids, who are usually fed a bunch of BS/union propaganda before the strike.

If more "professionals" would come together to fight for their jobs and benefits, maybe times wouldn't be so tough. Professional or blue collar, every worker has value and similar concerns. I would support the teachers, and I would never allow my kids to cross a picket.

I feel for the OP, but to direct his or her frustration at the teachers while holding the administration blameless is only considering one side of issue. I hope the teachers' compensation issues are fairly considered and that both sides are forced to sit down together to work out the situation.

 

[dzorn]

I don't know anyone else personally who has taken pay freezes/pay cuts every year for 4 straight years. Perhaps there are others out there, but not anyone I know.

DH has not gotten a rise in 3 years and he works salary for major auto manufacture.

Denise in MI

 

[pigletz]

I can only respond with my experiences as a teacher who has been on strike. We went on strike for two weeks five years ago. It was not about money. We knew that the district did not have the money to give us raises. Our strike was about getting a better education for the students in our classrooms. Our board proposed some pretty wacky things such as removing the language in the contract that states that it is the boards responsibility to maintain the buildings. I thought that was their job. Here are some of the things we won:
The right to be notified if a violent offender was being put in our rooms. We get a lot of students who have been expelled from other schools for weapons violations or assaulting teachers. I need to know if that is the case when a new student comes into my room in order to protect my students and myself.
Lowered class sizes for classes with special equiptment (computer labs, science labs, vocational programs etc.) In some cases there were classes of 60 in a computer lab and only 20 computers

Right now we have been without a contract for two years and our pay has been frozen the entire time. Again we are not asking for a raise. The board refuses to meet with the negotiation team and again has a ridiculous proposal that includes not maintaining the schools, eliminating all district support for discipline, and taking away their resposibility for classroom supplies like textbooks.

I wish that teacher's wouldn't have to strike. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that this is easy on us either. Most of us just want to get back to our jobs and do what we're paid to do. Striking is a last resort. Why else would we choose to go without pay for an indefinite amount of time. As for going somewhere else, I could. I could leave and work in another district or find a different career. I choose not too because I love my students and the teachers in my district. I would hate to see what would happen if all of the veteren teachers left my district and replaced us with first year teachers which they would love to do anyways (they're cheaper).

 

[Marty Moose]

My son has been a part of the state school system for a whopping 5 weeks now...so I really have no experience to draw opinions from.

I do have a question though, and this may seem obvious, but how exactly does this affect your vacations? Is just that you personally are concerned about him missing too much time? Or will the school district not allow those vacation days on top of the "strike" days?

If it's the latter...I would be furious! I don't want to get into the debate, but I would feel like as a tax-payer (especially with the outrageous taxes here in NJ!) I was paying for a service I wasn't receiving. And while I'm certainly flexible enough and compassionate enough to understand that certain situations do occur, to turn around and be penalized for the days we choose to take off (because they took them off for us!!) would seriously tick me off!

I just don't understand these schools that have no problem throwing an "in-service" day in the schedule once a month...but then balk when parents decide to take kids out for a few days for personal reasons?

Just my 2 cents...

 

[declansdad]

Oh goody, another let's bash teachers for standing up for their rights thread.


1. The whole point of any strike to to inconvenience people so they apply pressure to settle the strike.

2. Show me a union that doesn't protect incompetent workers and I will show a weak union.

3. Not all strikes are about money. That is just the topic that gets the most play in the media.

4. A good union would always threaten strike action at a time when it will cause the most headaches for the employer. For teachers, that isn't in the summer month.

5. There is no point in comparing one profession to another and arguing about how hard each works. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[taximomfor4]

My son has been a part of the state school system for a whopping 5 weeks now...so I really have no experience to draw opinions from.

I do have a question though, and this may seem obvious, but how exactly does this affect your vacations? Is just that you personally are concerned about him missing too much time? Or will the school district not allow those vacation days on top of the "strike" days?

If it's the latter...I would be furious! I don't want to get into the debate, but I would feel like as a tax-payer (especially with the outrageous taxes here in NJ!) I was paying for a service I wasn't receiving. And while I'm certainly flexible enough and compassionate enough to understand that certain situations do occur, to turn around and be penalized for the days we choose to take off (because they took them off for us!!) would seriously tick me off!

I just don't understand these schools that have no problem throwing an "in-service" day in the schedule once a month...but then balk when parents decide to take kids out for a few days for personal reasons?

Just my 2 cents...

At least around here, the in-service days are not counted in the 180 instructional days the students attend. The students go to the school 180 days...the teachers do too, but also go in for in-service days.

When our school went on strike when I was a kid, the days we missed didn't count against us. I think the school KNEW that wouldn't fly. I mean, we were listed as ABSENTS on our report cards, but didn't count in the maximum absences allowed (truancy laws or whatever they are called).

 

[momto2girls]

If someone wants to be considered a professional then they should act like one. Striking is not professional.

If teachers want respect, then they need to bag the unions, and that lovely organization, the NEA.

ITA!!

 

[noodleknitter]

If more "professionals" would come together to fight for their jobs and benefits, maybe times wouldn't be so tough. Professional or blue collar, every worker has value and similar concerns. I would support the teachers, and I would never allow my kids to cross a picket.

That would work if there were an unending supply of money...but ther isn't, and if there were, it would be called inflation.

Maybe what really needs to happen is that people need to learn to live within their means and be happy with the blessing they have. A job, food on the table, a roof over our heads. It's more than much of the world has.

 

[JPN4265]

Sorry but unless your in upper mangement No-ones pay has kept up with inflation.

Teacher are civil servents and SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO STRIKE. If they don't like the pay then leave and let someone else do the job.

I understand it's a tough job but so is everyone elses.

Should this not be for everyone. If you don't like your job or the pay you have the right to leave...No one is forcing you to work at that job. We all have choices, I don't care what your job, teacher, nurse, etc.

 

[barkley]

retired civil servant here.

not all civil servants are precluded from striking-generaly those in safety postions (fire, police, child protective services) cannot stike. those in other classifications that are unionized can (i was in one of the very rare managment classifications that banded together and formed a union for our member's protection-largly protection against hostile/violent employees).

i can't speak for teachers (have'nt been one in years and never went through bad negotiations)-but on the occasions i was subjected to a strike vote or a one day walk out vote in social services it was generaly the LAST thing any of the members wanted to do. and generaly it was not an issue of wanting more pay or better benefits, it was a matter of preventing take aways of pay/benefits-or more importantly protections in working conditions that if enacted endangered the employees and the people they served.

most service employees (and teachers fall under this category) may work under state or local laws that have mandated levels of the number of people they can serve (teach or oversee life sustaining service cases for) but most government/district employers have a loop hole that allows them to ignore those caps during 'times of need'. the agency/district determines the time of need-and they can create these by not backfilling vacant positions or hiring totaly inexperienced temp. staff with 'emergency lic/credentials' that preclude them from carrying a full class/caseload (but allows the employer to pay them substantialy less and no benefits or protections). so while a parent complaining that their child is in a class of 35 or 40 when the state mandates a cap of 25 is told by administration it's 'only temporary'-the teacher and union may know that temporary has been on-going for several years and it's just being shifted from teacher to teacher, school to school to ensure it's not highly apparant (or in social services when a tragic situation involving a child hits the media and it's found that the caseworker had double or triple the state/federal cap for a caseload-the agency always says it was a temporary/unusual circumstance-not that it's been the norm for several years-and they've been slammed by the feds on multiple occasions for it).

striking is no picnic for anyone in the service sector-the work is still there when you get back (no insult to subs-it's just not the same teaching environment and there's a ton of catch up work the perm. teacher goes back to), and for the most part dedicated service people do not want their cleints/students to get sub-par or no services. compound this with the loss of income and benefits (if a union has a strike fund it does'nt kick in until most strikes are long over and then it's pennies on the dollars, and strikers do not qualify for public assistance, food stamps or government medical assistance-so a striker who goes without the med benefits when they are out and has a family member who becomes sick or injured is s.o.l.) and most times despite any modest raise a returning strike may see it rarely covers their financial and emotional losses.

but the biggest losers are the clients and the students. both get the short end of the stick. they NEVER recoup what they've lost.

i don't know that theres any way to solve the problem of negotiations-the union i worked under tried implementing initial contract talks a full year ahead of contracts expiring in the hopes of getting minor issues off the table so when push came to shove on the big issues there was plenty of time to discuss it. several contracts later they found that the labor tactic of stalling until a contract was about to end came into play no matter how far ahead you started talking. last i heard my former co-workers were 2 years beyond the end of their contract with no end in sight (and petrified by the substandard service delivery their clients were getting from a massive influx of unskilled/untrained temporary employees management had brought in). the only thing i can think might help is if there was some sort of legislation that called for an impartial arbitrator to handle these negotiations if they are not settled within a defined period of time-there have been a couple of gov. agencies that have had that done in recent years. neither labor nor managment was thrilled with the outcome but at least it ensured that the students/public was served.

 

[taximomfor4]

Barkley,
well-worded and informative post. Just wanted to say that!

Beth

 

[barkley]

Barkley,
well-worded and informative post. Just wanted to say that!

Beth

thanks-i've had several incredible co-workers who have opted for early retirement because they've gotten so sick over being caught in the middle of these situations (they realy want to help people and get realy upset when they hear students or clients refererred to as numbers-even sicker when they KNOW they are short serving them).

 

[taximomfor4]

thanks-i've had several incredible co-workers who have opted for early retirement because they've gotten so sick over being caught in the middle of these situations (they realy want to help people and get realy upset when they hear students or clients refererred to as numbers-even sicker when they KNOW they are short serving them).

I completely understand. I am watching my DH burn out, but still drive himself (and his students) harder. I don't understand the "Golden Apple" thing -- might be just his school. But yesterday they had an assembly to award a "Golden Apple." He was completely SHOCKED when he figured out in the first sentence of the description of "this year's teacher" -- it was him. He knew in the first sentence because they said this year's teacher " graduated from this very school." Its a BIG, heavy, engraved golden apple. Don't really know what it means, but I KNOW he deserved to win.

Sorry to ramble OT, OP! I hope this all works out for you, wether the teachers strike or don't strike.

 

[The Disney Bunch]

Teachers should not be able to strike - That is my opinion. Not for nothing but the teachers in our area make very good money. Starting salaries for teachers are more than what I am making. My SIL makes $90,000 after 10 years. Not bad- plus she gets the holidays and vacation time. I wish I had that in my job. Why do we allow certain professiona the ability to strike & not others? As for keeping up with inflation - I haven't gotten a raise in 3 years & my dh got a 3% raise this past year - Definitley not keeping up with inflation!

 

[Aliisa]

Teachers should not be able to strike - That is my opinion. Not for nothing but the teachers in our area make very good money. Starting salaries for teachers are more than what I am making. My SIL makes $90,000 after 10 years. Not bad- plus she gets the holidays and vacation time. I wish I had that in my job. Why do we allow certain professiona the ability to strike & not others? As for keeping up with inflation - I haven't gotten a raise in 3 years & my dh got a 3% raise this past year - Definitley not keeping up with inflation!

I'm not sure where your SIL works but $90,000 a year is not the norm!! The average teacher in 2005 was making $46,752. IMO teachers have one the most important jobs in this country. They are taking care of our kids and teaching our future and we can never pay them enough for that.
My DD started kindegarten this year. I know so many familes that are paying to send their kids to private school for all day kindergarten because the daycare after half day kindergarten was more than private school!! Isn't that strange that we spend more on day care than education??
On that note I think I'll head over to the Budget Board, its so much more laid back over there LOL!!