UC (University of CA) System eliminates SAT/ACT Requirements for Freshman Admission

[DisneyJamieCA]

In non-Covid education news, the UC System voted today to eliminate the SAT/ACT requirements for incoming freshman permanently. They do expect to have their own admissions test by 2025.

https://abc7news.com/society/uc-sys...ng-as-student-admissions-requirement/6202760/

 

[mom2rtk]

So what do they plan to do until 2025? Admissions lottery? Good luck trying to compare GPAs from so many different high schools.

 

[bcla]

I personally thought that the SAT was a horrible predictor of future success. When I took it (and using several prep books courses) the verbal part was really just a vocabulary test. The math part was always about figuring out strategies. Why this is still being used rather escapes me.

I do appreciate that they're trying to come up with their own entrance test. I have friends from China where they have a competitive college entrance test that's actually related to the standard subject matter taught in high school. I always thought that the SAT was rather weird because the math part was less advanced than the math I was learning and the verbal part was (as I noted earlier) more of a vocabulary test.

 

[sam_gordon]

I do appreciate that they're trying to come up with their own entrance test.

I don't. Sure, I hope all schools follow their lead and do away with requiring SAT/ACT, but I hope not all schools come up with their own test. How many kids apply to multiple schools? Then they'd need to take a test for each school? No thank you.

 

[MillauFr]

So what do they plan to do until 2025? Admissions lottery? Good luck trying to compare GPAs from so many different high schools.

The University of Washington heavily uses high school GPAs in admission decisions. All of the GPAs are adjusted though. They compare the average GPAs from each high school and compare them with the average GPAs for University Freshman from that high school. Each student's GPA is then adjusted upward or downward.

 

[mom2rtk]

The University of Washington heavily uses high school GPAs in admission decisions. All of the GPAs are adjusted though. They compare the average GPAs from each high school and compare them with the average GPAs for University Freshman from that high school. Each student's GPA is then adjusted upward or downward.

That still requires assumptions about that student's performance based on assessment of the whole. Just give me one test nationwide across the country. That makes the most sense if you're trying to equalize opportunity. Unless that's not what you're after of course.

 

[bcla]

I don't. Sure, I hope all schools follow their lead and do away with requiring SAT/ACT, but I hope not all schools come up with their own test. How many kids apply to multiple schools? Then they'd need to take a test for each school? No thank you.

It certainly sounds to me as if they're trying to create a more accurate standardized test that might be shared. The biggest criticism of the SAT/ACT are that they don't really address the material that students learn in high school and that they're very limited. If the University of California comes up with something, I would think that the California State University system (the largest in the country) might also adopt whatever UC comes up with. Anyone who wants to apply where the SAT is required can still take the test.

Things change. When I applied to the University of California way back when, it was a common application ($35 for a single campus and $15 for each additional campus) with a requirement for the SAT/ACT and three separate Achievement Test (later SAT II/Subject Tests) scores. There were a lot of ways around it. I remember someone at my school was a math genius but strangely enough an immigrant from Hong Kong with poor English language skills. A counselor at our HS found some loophole that allowed him to substitute one Achievement Test score for his SAT Verbal and he got into UC Berkeley. I kept on hearing that he kept on trying to pass the Subject A (English) requirement.

 

[mentos]

UC grad here, my opinion is... finally! This was a terrible predictor of success, and it's super easy (with enough time and money) to defeat the test. It didn't actually measure aptitude in any way, it just measured how much effort someone put into pumping/dumping for the exam.

Case in point, I think I scored in the 700's in math (this was 20 ish years ago) but barely passed my calculus series in college. I mean, n = 1 (and my having a sailing class just before might have had something to do with it, but I digress), so take that as you wish.

There needs to be a de-emphasized standard measure, though... what it is, I couldn't tell you.

 

[WorldWacky]

We were surprised to find out that there are already a lot of schools that have done away with the SAT/ACT requirement. I kept asking admissions counselors if that was correct.
In the end, it didn’t matter. My daughter obviously took the SATs and her favorite school DID require them. But at least two of the schools had the scores as optional. They basically said, to paraphrase, ‘we don’t believe one test can show us the kind of student you are. Some people just test better than others. We like to see that you’re continuing to challenge yourself in your senior year (AP courses, etc)and like to see the other clubs, sports, charities, activities that you’re involved in. But if you got a 1550, that’s something to brag about too, so let us know!’

 

[diser_fam]

Agree with WorldWacky, we were surprised as well at the number of schools that did not require the SAT.

They basically said, to paraphrase, ‘we don’t believe one test can show us the kind of student you are. Some people just test better than others. We like to see that you’re continuing to challenge yourself in your senior year (AP courses, etc)and like to see the other clubs, sports, charities, activities that you’re involved in. But if you got a 1550, that’s something to brag about too, so let us know!’

This is exactly what we were hearing as well.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

We were surprised to find out that there are already a lot of schools that have done away with the SAT/ACT requirement. I kept asking admissions counselors if that was correct.
In the end, it didn’t matter. My daughter obviously took the SATs and her favorite school DID require them. But at least two of the schools had the scores as optional. They basically said, to paraphrase, ‘we don’t believe one test can show us the kind of student you are. Some people just test better than others. We like to see that you’re continuing to challenge yourself in your senior year (AP courses, etc)and like to see the other clubs, sports, charities, activities that you’re involved in. But if you got a 1550, that’s something to brag about too, so let us know!’

As we started the beginning research for ODD (basic go away, stay in state, stay local), I was surprised too at how many were already making it optional. So I'm not terribly surprised by it.

 

[cabanafrau]

I personally thought that the SAT was a horrible predictor of future success. When I took it (and using several prep books courses) the verbal part was really just a vocabulary test. The math part was always about figuring out strategies. Why this is still being used rather escapes me.

I do appreciate that they're trying to come up with their own entrance test. I have friends from China where they have a competitive college entrance test that's actually related to the standard subject matter taught in high school. I always thought that the SAT was rather weird because the math part was less advanced than the math I was learning and the verbal part was (as I noted earlier) more of a vocabulary test.

I'd like to know how the sausage is made when discussing competitive college entrance testing in China, because I am familiar with how their philosophy and approach to the American system of testing, both standardized and day to day classroom situations.

A longtime friend is now an administrator at a HS in our metro area that has classes of students from a Chinese school come to study at her school every year. There was quite an uproar among the teaching staff when they realized the students were turning over all quizzes and tests to their Chinese teachers for the purpose of coaching students so they would perform flawlessly on all quizzes and tests, despite not being able to perform even middling on classwork and homework. The American teachers stopped repeating tests and quizzes from the prior year and wouldn't you know it, the performance levels of the Chinese students were no longer anywhere near flawless. My eldest daughter experienced some strange things in college math courses with many Chinese students also miraculously scoring tremendously on tests, but somehow completely unable to ever participate in classroom work and discussion, completely falling apart when things strayed at all from simple formula regurgitation and entirely unable to discuss any of the theories.

It doesn't mean Chinese students aren't bright and capable. It points to a system in which they are pushed to score highly on tests by any means possible, full stop, mission accomplished.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Excellent move! Many colleges have already gone test-optional. In fact, only one school that my high school senior applied to required test scores, and they were all highly selective, small liberal arts schools. With the data that is available to colleges on how high schools compare, using grades and other information can certainly give them the info that they need.

 

[bcla]

It doesn't mean Chinese students aren't bright and capable. It points to a system in which they are pushed to score highly on tests by any means possible, full stop, mission accomplished.

In many ways I think a lot of students come to study overseas to escape the whole study to the test thing. Quite a few students from China struggle in the US when it's about independent thinking and not just gaming the system or studying just for tests.

The first I ever heard of competitive tests for college entrance was from the American movie A Great Wall. The movie has several subplots, but part of it was that several high school students were studying for the national college entrance exams. One girl in movie just broke down from studying, while another guy became a local hero when he got top scores that would get him into the most desirable schools.

College admissions in the US can be a mess. I remember when I applied for the ICs, back in the late 80s, I remember seeing a document from the University system stating that the first 50% of acceptance were from the top scoring in a strict formula of GPA and test scores. Then the rest would be from a variety of different criteria including scoring of the essay and a once-over of the application. Still - it was kind of hard to do individually when there were over 40,000 application per campus at the big schools like UC Berkeley or UCLA. The University of California didn't use letters of recommendation for undergraduate admissions.

A relative of mine got into Caltech. She admittedly didn't have the greatest grades or test scores, but in high school she worked a lab job for a professor there. That was the key to her getting accepted, although she didn't go.